Why are all the Zionists here the same as anti-semites??

[Roudy]

How do you explain that Israel has one of the highest atheist rates in the world at 20%?

How do you explain that you remain a douchebag after all these years?

You're right! I just don't know why my-self? honest...Guess I like to poke fun at those overlly religious types like MARGE...Zionism is not a religious crusade...it is about securing a safe-haven for jews as a people not as a religion...

Israel is a Secular State.

How about Israel is a safe haven for both, Jews as a religion, and as a people, while being a democracy and keeping "Church and faith" separate when it comes to governance? Why can't that work? It's working in Israel now and brilliancy so, I might add.

 

[Roudy]

kveth's "fully raised jewish mother" taught him ONLY ONE YIDDISH WORD------c'mon now kvetch-----if you had jewish relatives in LONDON-----you heard a lot more yiddish word that I did in my childhood--------London jews use ALL THEM WORDS -----it is so cute----there are distant relatives in both my mother's family and my father's in London------having been there since the 1800s They throw Yiddish with a kind of QUEEN ELIZABETH accent into everyday conversation

well my mum's family were affluent and not from stetls unlike London jews

and I never heard any yiddish at all

nor were we in london; I only moved here in 1992

as I told you, I started learning a bit in India from my JAP friend then carried on

its such a lovely lingo, I wish I had heard it earlier but I didn't

If kvetch is a Jew then I'm...ssssshhhhhhhhh....don't tell anybody...Elvis Pressly.

If Kvetch is a Jew then I'm the Jewish Elvis Pressly. This guy actually looks a lot like me in real life, believe it or not.

 

[eots]

1860-1904

Theodor Herzl in effect invented Zionism as a true political movement and an
international force. Born to a prosperous, emancipated Budapest family, he was
fluent in German and French but LACKED Hebrew, Yiddish, and Russian; he was secular,
cosmopolitan intellectual, a doctor of law, and a minor play writer. What
catalyzed Herzl's conversion to Zionism was the Dreyfus affair in France.

In 1894--95
Alfred Dreyfus, a French Jewish officer, was WRONGFULLY convicted of treason and
confined to Devil's Island. The trial triggered a wave of anti-Semitism in the
cradle and bastion of Western European liberal democracy. This wave of French
anti-Semitism was the PRIME motive behind Herzl authoring "The Jewish State" or Der
Judenstaat, which appeared in 1896 under the subtitle of "An
Attempt at a Modern Solution of the Jewish Question." (Righteous Victims,
p. 20)

Just before Herzl died in 1904, he had succeeded in securing a majority in
favor of settling Russian Jews in Uganda as offered by the British. Herzl
REFUSED to accept that Palestine ALONE must be the ZIONIST GOAL, and a state of
"armed peace" was declared. As soon as he died in July, the Uganda scheme
was finished, and his death effectively killed it. (Israel: A
History, p. 21)

Related Links

The
Jewish State by Theodor Herzl
More About Theodor Herzl and 'Transfer' by Rabbi Dr. Chaim Simons
Famous Quotes

In 1895, Herzl, the founder of Zionism, wrote in his diary:

"We
must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We
shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring
employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our
country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of
expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and
circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are
cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not
going to sell them anything back." (America And The Founding Of Israel, p.
49, Righteous Victims,
p. 21-22)

Theodor Herzl-A Brief Biography & Quotes

 

[Lipush]

Ok, so, what is the point you're trying to make, here?

 

[Lipush]

1860-1904

Theodor Herzl in effect invented Zionism as a true political movement and an
international force. Born to a prosperous, emancipated Budapest family, he was
fluent in German and French but LACKED Hebrew, Yiddish, and Russian; he was secular,
cosmopolitan intellectual, a doctor of law, and a minor play writer. What
catalyzed Herzl's conversion to Zionism was the Dreyfus affair in France.

In 1894--95
Alfred Dreyfus, a French Jewish officer, was WRONGFULLY convicted of treason and
confined to Devil's Island. The trial triggered a wave of anti-Semitism in the
cradle and bastion of Western European liberal democracy. This wave of French
anti-Semitism was the PRIME motive behind Herzl authoring "The Jewish State" or Der
Judenstaat, which appeared in 1896 under the subtitle of "An
Attempt at a Modern Solution of the Jewish Question." (Righteous Victims,
p. 20)

Just before Herzl died in 1904, he had succeeded in securing a majority in
favor of settling Russian Jews in Uganda as offered by the British. Herzl
REFUSED to accept that Palestine ALONE must be the ZIONIST GOAL, and a state of
"armed peace" was declared. As soon as he died in July, the Uganda scheme
was finished, and his death effectively killed it. (Israel: A
History, p. 21)

Related Links

The
Jewish State by Theodor Herzl
More About Theodor Herzl and 'Transfer' by Rabbi Dr. Chaim Simons
Famous Quotes

In 1895, Herzl, the founder of Zionism, wrote in his diary:

"We
must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We
shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring
employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our
country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of
expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and
circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are
cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not
going to sell them anything back." (America And The Founding Of Israel, p.
49, Righteous Victims,
p. 21-22)

Theodor Herzl-A Brief Biography & Quotes

Hertzl was not a founder of Zionism.

Zionism is the lifestyle which its belief is that it is the right of the Jewish people to return to the ancestors' land of Israel

so Hertzl didn't "invent" Zionism. Zionism was not "invented" by man. if any "man" acted first on Zionism, it would have been Moses.

 

[eots]

1860-1904

theodor herzl in effect invented zionism as a true political movement and an
international force. Born to a prosperous, emancipated budapest family, he was
fluent in german and french but lacked hebrew, yiddish, and russian; he was secular,
cosmopolitan intellectual, a doctor of law, and a minor play writer. What
catalyzed herzl's conversion to zionism was the dreyfus affair in france.

In 1894--95
alfred dreyfus, a french jewish officer, was wrongfully convicted of treason and
confined to devil's island. The trial triggered a wave of anti-semitism in the
cradle and bastion of western european liberal democracy. This wave of french
anti-semitism was the prime motive behind herzl authoring "the jewish state" or der
judenstaat, which appeared in 1896 under the subtitle of "an
attempt at a modern solution of the jewish question." (righteous victims,
p. 20)

just before herzl died in 1904, he had succeeded in securing a majority in
favor of settling russian jews in uganda as offered by the british. Herzl
refused to accept that palestine alone must be the zionist goal, and a state of
"armed peace" was declared. As soon as he died in july, the uganda scheme
was finished, and his death effectively killed it. (israel: A
history, p. 21)

related links

the
jewish state by theodor herzl
more about theodor herzl and 'transfer' by rabbi dr. Chaim simons
famous quotes

in 1895, herzl, the founder of zionism, wrote in his diary:

"we
must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We
shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring
employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our
country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of
expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and
circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are
cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not
going to sell them anything back." (america and the founding of israel, p.
49, righteous victims,
p. 21-22)

theodor herzl-a brief biography & quotes

hertzl was not a founder of zionism.

Zionism is the lifestyle which its belief is that it is the right of the jewish people to return to the ancestors' land of israel

so hertzl didn't "invent" zionism. Zionism was not "invented" by man. If any "man" acted first on zionism, it would have been moses.

utter nonsense...

 

[irosie91]

the HERZL INVENTED ZIONISM myth is as firmly entrenched in the minds of islamo nazis as the deicide myth was entrenched in the mind of Queen Isabella of Spain

for those who do not know----RISHON LE TZION-----a city founded by "EARLY TO ZION" people was founded when Herzl was an infant. Your myth makes NO SENSE

 

[eots]

the herzl invented zionism myth is as firmly entrenched in the minds of islamo nazis as the deicide myth was entrenched in the mind of queen isabella of spain

for those who do not know----rishon le tzion-----a city founded by "early to zion" people was founded when herzl was an infant. Your myth makes no sense

it makes far more sense than The rambling discourse and references to lifestyle and moses

 

[Lipush]

1860-1904

theodor herzl in effect invented zionism as a true political movement and an
international force. Born to a prosperous, emancipated budapest family, he was
fluent in german and french but lacked hebrew, yiddish, and russian; he was secular,
cosmopolitan intellectual, a doctor of law, and a minor play writer. What
catalyzed herzl's conversion to zionism was the dreyfus affair in france.

In 1894--95
alfred dreyfus, a french jewish officer, was wrongfully convicted of treason and
confined to devil's island. The trial triggered a wave of anti-semitism in the
cradle and bastion of western european liberal democracy. This wave of french
anti-semitism was the prime motive behind herzl authoring "the jewish state" or der
judenstaat, which appeared in 1896 under the subtitle of "an
attempt at a modern solution of the jewish question." (righteous victims,
p. 20)

just before herzl died in 1904, he had succeeded in securing a majority in
favor of settling russian jews in uganda as offered by the british. Herzl
refused to accept that palestine alone must be the zionist goal, and a state of
"armed peace" was declared. As soon as he died in july, the uganda scheme
was finished, and his death effectively killed it. (israel: A
history, p. 21)

related links

the
jewish state by theodor herzl
more about theodor herzl and 'transfer' by rabbi dr. Chaim simons
famous quotes

in 1895, herzl, the founder of zionism, wrote in his diary:

"we
must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We
shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring
employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our
country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of
expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and
circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are
cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not
going to sell them anything back." (america and the founding of israel, p.
49, righteous victims,
p. 21-22)

theodor herzl-a brief biography & quotes

hertzl was not a founder of zionism.

Zionism is the lifestyle which its belief is that it is the right of the jewish people to return to the ancestors' land of israel

so hertzl didn't "invent" zionism. Zionism was not "invented" by man. If any "man" acted first on zionism, it would have been moses.

utter nonsense...

If you think that's nonsense, you obviously know nothing about Zionistm OR Judaism to start with.

Saying Hertzl "invented" Zionism is laughable and rediculous.

Any Jew will agree with me on that one.

You're way over your head in this discussion, no offense.

 

[Lipush]

the herzl invented zionism myth is as firmly entrenched in the minds of islamo nazis as the deicide myth was entrenched in the mind of queen isabella of spain

for those who do not know----rishon le tzion-----a city founded by "early to zion" people was founded when herzl was an infant. Your myth makes no sense

it makes far more sense than your rambling discourse and references to lifestyle

Zionism IS a lifestyle. a way of life.

 

[eots]

Very complex… European colonialists, using financial means and trickery, acquired lands from absentee landlords; then, contrary to local traditions that go back centuries, they proceeded to evict the local peasant share-croppers. The rest is history – the same sort of methods have been used since then, adjusted somewhat to reflect current conditions.

New documents reveal early Palestinian attitudes toward Zionist settlements | Israeli Occupation Archive

 

[eots]

hertzl was not a founder of zionism.

Zionism is the lifestyle which its belief is that it is the right of the jewish people to return to the ancestors' land of israel

so hertzl didn't "invent" zionism. Zionism was not "invented" by man. If any "man" acted first on zionism, it would have been moses.

utter nonsense...

If you think that's nonsense, you obviously know nothing about Zionistm OR Judaism to start with.

Saying Hertzl "invented" Zionism is laughable and rediculous.

Any Jew will agree with me on that one.

You're way over your head in this discussion, no offense.

lol ..it was your little friend that made the claim Hertzl invented Zionism not I

 

[eots]

zionism was not "invented" by man.

pure madness

 

[Lipush]

zionism was not "invented" by man.

pure madness

Yet you come with no proof why I am not correct.

Masechet Sotta in the Talmud discussed Zionism as well, Rabbi Yehuda and the Ramban discuss this issue in the question of "wars of obligation".

You should read and find that the explanations and claims there are all based on the Tanakh. Not words of men.

 

[eots]

zionism was not "invented" by man.

pure madness

Yet you come with no proof why I am not correct.

Masechet Sotta in the Talmud discussed Zionism as well, Rabbi Yehuda and the Ramban discuss this issue in the question of "wars of obligation".

You should read and find that the explanations and claims there are all based on the Tanakh. Not words of men.

Your mythical tales have no relevance...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EPsuOEH1fY]The Irish Rovers - The Unicorn Song - YouTube[/ame]

 

[pbel]

pure madness

Yet you come with no proof why I am not correct.

Masechet Sotta in the Talmud discussed Zionism as well, Rabbi Yehuda and the Ramban discuss this issue in the question of "wars of obligation".

You should read and find that the explanations and claims there are all based on the Tanakh. Not words of men.

Your mythical tales have no relevance...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EPsuOEH1fY]The Irish Rovers - The Unicorn Song - YouTube[/ame]

Unfortunately religious zannies have much more political influence for their numbers...That's the problem with religious logic, it can accept, illogical as a matter of faith composed from fairy tales and rightiously murder each other.

 

[rosends]

1860-1904

Theodor Herzl in effect invented Zionism as a true political movement and an
international force. Born to a prosperous, emancipated Budapest family, he was
fluent in German and French but LACKED Hebrew, Yiddish, and Russian; he was secular,
cosmopolitan intellectual, a doctor of law, and a minor play writer. What
catalyzed Herzl's conversion to Zionism was the Dreyfus affair in France.

In 1894--95
Alfred Dreyfus, a French Jewish officer, was WRONGFULLY convicted of treason and
confined to Devil's Island. The trial triggered a wave of anti-Semitism in the
cradle and bastion of Western European liberal democracy. This wave of French
anti-Semitism was the PRIME motive behind Herzl authoring "The Jewish State" or Der
Judenstaat, which appeared in 1896 under the subtitle of "An
Attempt at a Modern Solution of the Jewish Question." (Righteous Victims,
p. 20)

Just before Herzl died in 1904, he had succeeded in securing a majority in
favor of settling Russian Jews in Uganda as offered by the British. Herzl
REFUSED to accept that Palestine ALONE must be the ZIONIST GOAL, and a state of
"armed peace" was declared. As soon as he died in July, the Uganda scheme
was finished, and his death effectively killed it. (Israel: A
History, p. 21)

Related Links

The
Jewish State by Theodor Herzl
More About Theodor Herzl and 'Transfer' by Rabbi Dr. Chaim Simons
Famous Quotes

In 1895, Herzl, the founder of Zionism, wrote in his diary:

"We
must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We
shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring
employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our
country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of
expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and
circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are
cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not
going to sell them anything back." (America And The Founding Of Israel, p.
49, Righteous Victims,
p. 21-22)

Theodor Herzl-A Brief Biography & Quotes

hi -- I'm not sure what point you are making with this information. It is all well and good but Zionism as a nationalist and modern movement predated Herzl. Ignoring the various documenting texts of Jewish life and national aspiration in the 1830's and 40's, you have other information. Between Hess's 1862 work, Pinsker's work, the first Aliyah in the 1870's and the settling of Rishon Pina and Petach Tikvah and Rishon LeTziyon, there was already a movement to establish a safe haven based on political need, not religious return before the FZC in 1897.

Here is a bit more of a complete presentation of that Herzl quote (as you can see, the expropriation was only of the indigent from land given to the state by the government that receives the new people, not a whole scale deportation):

"When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly … It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion. This is another area in which we shall set the entire world a wonderful example … Should there be many such immovable owners in individual areas [who would not sell their property to us], we shall simply leave them there and develop our commerce in the direction of other areas which belong to us."

You can read more, with footnotes and discussion here
Benny Morris's Reign of Error, Revisited: The Post-Zionist Critique :: Middle East Quarterly

 

[irosie91]

part of the historical revisionism of islamo nazis includes the rendering of HERZL as the DEFINER OF ZIONISM-------he actually was not. Herzl simply introduced the concept of COMPLETELY SECULAR zionism---------another idea upon which the islamo nazis grasp in their claim that ZIONISM IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH JUDAISM In fact-----Herzl was not particularly into Judaism Zionism predates Herzl-----the only point that would make a decent discussion might be-----DID HERZL DO ANYTHING THAT CHANGED THE COURSE OF ZIONISM? the answer to that one could very well be "no". I believe that he did introduce some PRACTICAL approaches to the problems faced by the early zionist movement of the late 1800s

 

[kvetch]

hertzl was not a founder of zionism.

Zionism is the lifestyle which its belief is that it is the right of the jewish people to return to the ancestors' land of israel

so hertzl didn't "invent" zionism. Zionism was not "invented" by man. If any "man" acted first on zionism, it would have been moses.

utter nonsense...

If you think that's nonsense, you obviously know nothing about Zionistm OR Judaism to start with.

Saying Hertzl "invented" Zionism is laughable and rediculous.

Any Jew will agree with me on that one.

You're way over your head in this discussion, no offense.

i agree with you, Lipushi

if anyone invented zionism, it was Moses

But since Moses is probably not a historical person

It was the person or people who created the legend of Moses

this is a new view for me which Rosie has helped me develop

She said Zionism is as old as judaism and that persuaded me to stop being a self hatin jew and accept the true value of zionism

and restrict my kvetchin to theft or klepto zionism

wonderful Obama won the election...I have been up all night watching it

shalom and ha tikva

 

[Lipush]

pure madness

Yet you come with no proof why I am not correct.

Masechet Sotta in the Talmud discussed Zionism as well, Rabbi Yehuda and the Ramban discuss this issue in the question of "wars of obligation".

You should read and find that the explanations and claims there are all based on the Tanakh. Not words of men.

Your mythical tales have no relevance...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EPsuOEH1fY]The Irish Rovers - The Unicorn Song - YouTube[/ame]

It is not a matter of RELEVANCE! Ahh, you're that thick?

You came up with the saying that Hertzl was "inventing" and "founding" the Zionist movment, when in fact, it's root is in the Bible.

Weather the Bible is relevant or not, DOESN'T MATTER! that's not the issue! that issue is that It can be found there, AND the Talmud!

"Zionism" is not to be credited to Theodor Hertzl! THAT is the issue!