Who's Afraid of Socialism?

[Andylusion]

. it cost trillions to avert a full-scale depression. And a lot of places didn't have the money.

Bush cause a real estate bubble in Venezuela?
LOL!

Trump did even worse

Trump’s Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela US$6bn Since August 2017

So you don't care that Venezuelan officials were extracting money from the state owned oil companies and offshoring the profits, while the poor and middle class in Venezuela starved to death?

Because the starvation was happening for almost a decade now. Food shortages were happening back in 2003.

So we already know for a fact that oil profits were being used to enrich the socialist elites, not help the poor.

Yet you are complaining that Trump prevented the socialist elites from confiscating more state oil profits?

Which I still do not know that the sanctions were directly responsible for loss of oil production. You already pointed out in your own graph, that oil product was falling even before the sanctions.

You claim to know something about logic..... well just because (A) is true, and (B) is true, doesn't mean A caused B. Correlation does not equal causation. That's logic 101. Go back to middle school, and you'll be taught that.

 

[Tehon]

The gop's fault dumbass, not America every time.

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

2008 depression Ronald Reagan and his pal Saddam Nixon and his buddy the shah and his secret police etc etc. Covert action and sabotage in Iran 1953 Honduras Guatemala etc all the way through Argentina Chile all the time the GOP in power every time. Do you want a diagram?. Do you know anything? You are a total rube and GOP dupe.

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

They were having a crisis of capital. Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't run the printing presses that's the government (central bank).

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

 

[georgephillip]

. it cost trillions to avert a full-scale depression. And a lot of places didn't have the money.

Bush cause a real estate bubble in Venezuela?
LOL!

Trump did even worse

Trump’s Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela US$6bn Since August 2017

So you don't care that Venezuelan officials were extracting money from the state owned oil companies and offshoring the profits, while the poor and middle class in Venezuela starved to death?

Because the starvation was happening for almost a decade now. Food shortages were happening back in 2003.

So we already know for a fact that oil profits were being used to enrich the socialist elites, not help the poor.

Yet you are complaining that Trump prevented the socialist elites from confiscating more state oil profits?

Which I still do not know that the sanctions were directly responsible for loss of oil production. You already pointed out in your own graph, that oil product was falling even before the sanctions.

You claim to know something about logic..... well just because (A) is true, and (B) is true, doesn't mean A caused B. Correlation does not equal causation. That's logic 101. Go back to middle school, and you'll be taught that.

How do you think the "Red Don" will react to this:
Russia warns U.S. against military intervention in Venezuela
"'Venezuela is friendly to us and is our strategic partner,' Vladimir Putin's deputy foreign minister said. 'We have supported them and will support them.'"
Russia warns U.S. against military intervention in Venezuela

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

2008 depression Ronald Reagan and his pal Saddam Nixon and his buddy the shah and his secret police etc etc. Covert action and sabotage in Iran 1953 Honduras Guatemala etc all the way through Argentina Chile all the time the GOP in power every time. Do you want a diagram?. Do you know anything? You are a total rube and GOP dupe.

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

They were having a crisis of capital. Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't run the printing presses that's the government (central bank).

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

Government running the printing press is mismanagement of government.
Nothing to do with capitalism.

 

[Andylusion]

. it cost trillions to avert a full-scale depression. And a lot of places didn't have the money.

Bush cause a real estate bubble in Venezuela?
LOL!

Trump did even worse

Trump’s Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela US$6bn Since August 2017

So you don't care that Venezuelan officials were extracting money from the state owned oil companies and offshoring the profits, while the poor and middle class in Venezuela starved to death?

Because the starvation was happening for almost a decade now. Food shortages were happening back in 2003.

So we already know for a fact that oil profits were being used to enrich the socialist elites, not help the poor.

Yet you are complaining that Trump prevented the socialist elites from confiscating more state oil profits?

Which I still do not know that the sanctions were directly responsible for loss of oil production. You already pointed out in your own graph, that oil product was falling even before the sanctions.

You claim to know something about logic..... well just because (A) is true, and (B) is true, doesn't mean A caused B. Correlation does not equal causation. That's logic 101. Go back to middle school, and you'll be taught that.

How do you think the "Red Don" will react to this:
Russia warns U.S. against military intervention in Venezuela
"'Venezuela is friendly to us and is our strategic partner,' Vladimir Putin's deputy foreign minister said. 'We have supported them and will support them.'"
Russia warns U.S. against military intervention in Venezuela

First, I cannot see any reason we would ever want to take military action in Venezuela.

Regardless, does not this comment contradict the previous? You are claiming that Trump is directly responsible for devastating Venezuela.... and yet Putin wants us to support Venezuela. Does this not mean Trump is not a puppet of Putin?

LOL.... you people.... you trip over your own made up lies. What a joke you people are! Can't even get 3 posts on one thread, that don't contradict each other! That's so pathetic. But you met my expectations of you.

 

[Andylusion]

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

2008 depression Ronald Reagan and his pal Saddam Nixon and his buddy the shah and his secret police etc etc. Covert action and sabotage in Iran 1953 Honduras Guatemala etc all the way through Argentina Chile all the time the GOP in power every time. Do you want a diagram?. Do you know anything? You are a total rube and GOP dupe.

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

They were having a crisis of capital. Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't run the printing presses that's the government (central bank).

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

That makes no logical sense. Government running the currency, is not logically a problem of capitalism, since capitalism by definition, is something not run by the government.

 

[Tehon]

2008 depression Ronald Reagan and his pal Saddam Nixon and his buddy the shah and his secret police etc etc. Covert action and sabotage in Iran 1953 Honduras Guatemala etc all the way through Argentina Chile all the time the GOP in power every time. Do you want a diagram?. Do you know anything? You are a total rube and GOP dupe.

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

They were having a crisis of capital. Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't run the printing presses that's the government (central bank).

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

Government running the printing press is mismanagement of government.
Nothing to do with capitalism.

Of course a mismanagement of capital has everything to do with capitalism.

 

[bripat9643]

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

The gop's fault dumbass, not America every time.

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

2008 depression Ronald Reagan and his pal Saddam Nixon and his buddy the shah and his secret police etc etc. Covert action and sabotage in Iran 1953 Honduras Guatemala etc all the way through Argentina Chile all the time the GOP in power every time. Do you want a diagram?. Do you know anything? You are a total rube and GOP dupe.

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

They were having a crisis of capital. Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

ROFL! It's a failure of government. It controls the money supply. They have massive inflation because they finance their government by printing money.

 

[bripat9643]

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

They were having a crisis of capital. Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't run the printing presses that's the government (central bank).

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

Government running the printing press is mismanagement of government.
Nothing to do with capitalism.

Of course a mismanagement of capital has everything to do with capitalism.

Money isn't capital, moron, and even socialist countries have to manage capital.

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the most basic facts of economics.

 

[bripat9643]

Milton Friedman is pretty good.

I thought you were a believer in free markets? The first thing the Chicago School did in Chile was close down every economics department in the country except for their chosen seminary at the Catholic University. They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint. Apparently, Friedman's "free markets" require totalitarian control?

"They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint."

Horseshit. Have got any credible sources to support that?

As if you care:

Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile - Wikipedia

"Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile were the crimes against humanity, persecution of opponents, political repression and state terrorism committed by the Chilean Armed Forces, members of Carabineros de Chile and civil repressive agents members of a secret police, during the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet in Chile from September 11, 1973, until March 11, 1990.

"According to the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation (Rettig Commission) and the National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture (Valech Commission), the number of direct victims of human rights violations in Chile accounts for around 30,000 people: 27,255 tortured and 2,279 executed.

"In addition, some 200,000 people suffered exile and an unknown number went through clandestine centers and illegal detention.[citation needed]"

You do realize that socialists murdered millions on millions, right? That doesn't mean that Pinochet wasn't committing crimes. Surely he was.

But if you think that this makes the case the left-wingers have been better on human rights.... you are beyond uninformed, you are a blithering idiot.

I am aware of mass murders committed by socialists like Stalin and Mao. Are you attentive to the hundreds of million murdered by capitalism over the past five centuries?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1462394042000326879?src=recsys&journalCode=riac20

Nope. That's a fantasy.

 

[bripat9643]

. it cost trillions to avert a full-scale depression. And a lot of places didn't have the money.

Bush cause a real estate bubble in Venezuela?
LOL!

Trump did even worse

Trump’s Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela US$6bn Since August 2017

I can't even tell what your chart measures.

 

[Andylusion]

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

They were having a crisis of capital. Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't run the printing presses that's the government (central bank).

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

Government running the printing press is mismanagement of government.
Nothing to do with capitalism.

Of course a mismanagement of capital has everything to do with capitalism.

Capitalism is a system of ideological beliefs, one of which is the private control of production and distribution of wealth.

The moment you involve government in that... it is no longer a problem of Capitalism.

Government controlling the "management of capital" as you put it... is a violation of Capitalism. You can't blame Capitalism for something that violates Capitalism.

This is like getting treatment from a hospital, refusing to take your meds and having a seizure, and then blaming bad health care for your seizure.

 

[justoffal]

No thanks. One need not look any further than europe to see what a travesty it is.

yes.....all those happy scandinavian countries......makes me sick.....

All those financially devastated scandavian
Countries that are slaves to the imf you mean?

Jo

 

[sakinago]

That’s right, you’re right. I remember that

 

[sakinago]

Do you want a large company creating billions in wealth for the whole country? Or a non-profit producing millions?

Why did all of Obamas health care co-ops all fail? Because in general for-profit companies do better.

First of all, large companies create billions in wealth, but they don't distribute that wealth to the whole country. They distribute the vast bulk of those billions to a fraction of the richest one percent of the whole country.

Obama's health care initiatives failed because he once again turned to capitalist whores like Liz Fowler to design his for-profit business interests.
"Obamacare architect leaves White House for pharmaceutical industry job
Glenn Greenwald...

Obamacare architect leaves White House for pharmaceutical industry job | Glenn Greenwald

This isn’t a correct characterization of large companies. They do distribute wealth. They do so to their many employees. To the contractors they hire. To the builders they hire. To the other companies and people they invest in. And to the thousands of shareholders that invest in them. That money doesn’t just stop there either, the secondary recipients just listed go on and spread wealth elsewhere. And yes even the few who do get rich in this scenario do pay taxes, the company pays taxes, and further they are hands down the largest contributors to charity.

 

[Tehon]

They were having a crisis of capital. Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't run the printing presses that's the government (central bank).

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

Government running the printing press is mismanagement of government.
Nothing to do with capitalism.

Of course a mismanagement of capital has everything to do with capitalism.

Money isn't capital, moron, and even socialist countries have to manage capital.

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the most basic facts of economics.

A socialist economy managing capital is an oxymoron.

Venezuela does not have a socialist system of production. If they did then Trump's sanctions denying them access to capital markets would be of no consequence.

What you capitalist fan boys are saying in essence is that capitalism only exists in a state of anarchy. In other words, basically nowhere on planet earth.

 

[dblack]

Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't run the printing presses that's the government (central bank).

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

Government running the printing press is mismanagement of government.
Nothing to do with capitalism.

Of course a mismanagement of capital has everything to do with capitalism.

Money isn't capital, moron, and even socialist countries have to manage capital.

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the most basic facts of economics.

A socialist economy managing capital is an oxymoron.

I guess it depends on how you define capital. Regardless, someone has to decide how we organize labor and allocate resources. In a free market the people do this collaboratively and voluntarily. How would it happen under socialism?

 

[bripat9643]

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

Government running the printing press is mismanagement of government.
Nothing to do with capitalism.

Of course a mismanagement of capital has everything to do with capitalism.

Money isn't capital, moron, and even socialist countries have to manage capital.

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the most basic facts of economics.

A socialist economy managing capital is an oxymoron.

I guess it depends on how you define capital. Regardless, someone has to decide how we organize labor and allocate resources. In a free market the people do this collaboratively and voluntarily. How would it happen under socialism?

The only definition that matters is the one that economists use. "Capital" is goods that we used to make other goods. It's not money, and it's not stock certificates or bonds.

 

[bripat9643]

Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't run the printing presses that's the government (central bank).

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

Government running the printing press is mismanagement of government.
Nothing to do with capitalism.

Of course a mismanagement of capital has everything to do with capitalism.

Money isn't capital, moron, and even socialist countries have to manage capital.

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the most basic facts of economics.

A socialist economy managing capital is an oxymoron.

so you claim that a socialist economy would have no factories, no buildings, no computers, no trucks, no ships and no heavy equipment?

Venezuela does not have a socialist system of production. If they did then Trump's sanctions denying them access to capital markets would be of no consequence.

It's quickly headed in that direction since the people are all starving.

What you capitalist fan boys are saying in essence is that capitalism only exists in a state of anarchy. In other words, basically nowhere on planet earth.

Economies fall on a sliding scale. On one end is pure socialism: the government owns everything. On the other end is pure capitalism: the government owns nothing. Some libertarians would even agree that there wouldn't be a government.

 

[Tehon]

Correct, it was a mismanagement of capital(ism).

Government running the printing press is mismanagement of government.
Nothing to do with capitalism.

Of course a mismanagement of capital has everything to do with capitalism.

Money isn't capital, moron, and even socialist countries have to manage capital.

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the most basic facts of economics.

A socialist economy managing capital is an oxymoron.

I guess it depends on how you define capital. Regardless, someone has to decide how we organize labor and allocate resources. In a free market the people do this collaboratively and voluntarily. How would it happen under socialism?

We would organize labor and allocate resources in much the same way we do it in a capitalist system, the market. In a socialist system, collaboratively and voluntarily would be more than just rhetoric.