Who's Afraid of Socialism?

[francoHFW]

Yea I’d say government is a very shitty vessel for solving our problems. Individuals on the other hand are very good at it. I’m typing on a device that would’ve been considered a supercomputer in the 90s...and it fits in my palm. It’s tech making the entire globe richer, giving the impoverished worldwide access to the internet where they can participate in things like commerce and education they could not have dreamed of 10 years ago. Made by the same company that took 40 some years to be worth what our government lost track of in 10.

You should also be willing to ask the question : "What role did government play in the creation of Apple Computers?" Starting with its official corporate charter and extending through decades of taxpayer-funded (government) research and development into revolutionary technologies like the Internet, GPS, and touchscreen display.

Apple received its early stage finance from the US government's small business Investment Company program. Venture capitalists entered only after government funding had gotten Apple to the critical proof of concept stage.

Considering everything government contributed to Apple's current $1 trillion market cap, it is also shameful that Apple refuses to should its fair share of the federal tax burden, imho.

Taxpayers Helped Apple, but Apple Won’t Help Them

Whoa what is fair share? What is this amorphous, subjective term that keeps getting thrown around? At what point is fair share going to be satisfactory? In the European countries there doesn’t seem to be a satisfactory amount so taxes are constantly raised, or they realize continuously raising taxes does not help at all with job creation and they are moving right. And why is it moral to give money to a institution that LOST 1 trillion dollars since the movie the hangover was made? If that was a charity we were giving our hard earned money too, we’d be burning that bitch to the ground.

Sure apple didn’t get where they are on their own. And an interesting tidbit is that military innovation is probably the largest driver of innovation and beneficial tech for the public overall. But for that to happen, a country needs to recognize that the standard bureaucracy that politics always seems to breeds is detrimental to their military and its best to keep it out as much as possible (which many countries have). However, do you believe that if apple were in the business of whatever government dept, well say Medicare, it would be hemorrhaging as much money knowing it’s competing with google for Medicare patients and healthcare providers to use their service? If amazon ran the DMV do you think my drivers license photo would like I was ready to cry tears of rage? Faaack no. Did apple get where they are on their own. No. Did they have some help from government, sure. Was a government loan the driving force of their success, nope. What free markets do is crowd source solutions to humanities problems while rewarding the people who solve those problems. It monetizes service to humanity. After all, why are you going to pay for something that you don’t need or want? Is capatialism a perfect system, hell no. No system is, but it’s the best we have come up with. It’s not fair to capatilism to define it by the areas that is has fallen short of (areas perceived in this current tiny timeframe that’s constantly changing and improving)...but then ignore the tremendous leaps and bounds it has improved human life world wide. Read Enlightenment Now please, by Stephen Pinker, a Harvard psychologist (whose on the left so this isn’t a right wing shill propagandist). It’s absolutely nothing short of a miracle to see how far humanity has come even in the past 20 years. You will be blown away by the stats. Also Better Angels is another good one by him in the same sort of vein. Also, look up Bjorn Lomborg, he has a book (I haven’t read) but has Ted Talks, articles and videos talking about prioritizing the worlds problems and analysis and the best ways to solves them. It’s good stuff, and will show you that these free market things work pretty damn well.

It’s also important to note that the countries the likes of AOC and Bernie cite are not socialists countries. They are free market countries, with larger social programs than we have, and also larger tax rates. Real socialism is what we see in Venezuela (like 5 years ago it was heralded as a admirable success by the far left), and Cuba. Both are hell holes, and hopefully the change of leadership will help Venezuela (once a modern 1st world country with immense resources) get back in its feet. So what do you mean when you’re talking about socialism?

I think you’re simplifying world problems with an equation of government + more money = problems solved. But it’s not that simple, and government, pretty much by nature, is like a hanging flower pot where you turn the hose on full power and drench it, but only see droplets coming out of the bottom. I’m not saying government isn’t capable of any good, or doesn’t have a place. Just that you should honestly question if it is the best vessel for solving problems. Once again, it lost 1 trillion dollars. That’s a full 1/3 of what it takes in annually in tax revenue. 5% of the entire national GDP it carelessly lost in the cushions of the couch within 10 years. Is government really the best way to provide the most good? Is that going to give us the best bang for our buck?

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

 

[bripat9643]

Allende was a fucking commie, moron. He was turning Chile onto a Stalinist state. Pinochet, backed by the US and Britain, led the subsequent war against marxist terrorists. All urban wars are dirty and bloody. Look at Northern Ireland, Israel’s war against Palestinians, or Algeria.

Marxist urban rebels tried to overthrow Chile’s government, using bombings, assassinations, kidnapping and guerrilla assaults. Chile, and neighboring Argentina, suffered a reign of terror and faced near anarchy as communist guerillas attempted, in their own words, to ‘destroy the capitalist state. ‘

Chilean and Argentine security forces were ordered to fight an all-out war against the communist rebels. Terror against terror. In the process, some innocent people were arrested, tortured or disappeared. But most victims were not innocents. They were mainly marxist guerillas and terrorists,or part of the marxist support network, that included students, and marxist clergy and nuns.

A relentless war was waged against Pinochet and the Chilean people during the years, 1973-1990. Bill Jasper points out that in 1984 alone, there were 735 terrorist bombings with responsibility clamed by the Manuel Rodriguez Patriotic Front (MRPF) the Communist cadre supported by Cuba, Nicaragua, Libya, East Germany, and the Soviet Union. On Sept. 7, 1986, Pinochet and his 10-year-old grandson narrowly escaped an ambush by Communists armed with automatic rifles, rocket launchers, bazookas, and grenades. Many terrorists and their supporters were killed in this war of attrition both by Pinochet’s forces and by civilians seeking vengeance and. given the situation, many of their bodies went unidentified. Jasper states that “we have seen no evidence to sustain the charges that Pinochet ordered, knew of, or approved of, any plan for the use of murder or torture against his political opponents”.

Then the leftwing media in this country cried about how they were innocent and being murdered. It's not murder when you're shooting at government troops.

Let's have a link to all that violence Allende caused, you incredibly brainwashed moron....

Here ya go, douchebag:

Augusto Pinochet hero « The Historical Truth Project

You really love garbage propaganda don't you? What an a****** Pinochet was total a******. Kind of like Kissinger and Nixon

Pinochet was a hero. Allende and the commies who supported him were the assholes. They were trying to convert Chile into a Soviet client state. They deserved everything they got.

Nothing you know is true. sounds just like you do with Hillary and Obama --the charges are coming!! idiot.

I was thinking exactly the same thing about you, Franco. Everyone does. Everything you post is a lie.

 

[francoHFW]

Let's have a link to all that violence Allende caused, you incredibly brainwashed moron....

Here ya go, douchebag:

Augusto Pinochet hero « The Historical Truth Project

You really love garbage propaganda don't you? What an a****** Pinochet was total a******. Kind of like Kissinger and Nixon

Pinochet was a hero. Allende and the commies who supported him were the assholes. They were trying to convert Chile into a Soviet client state. They deserved everything they got.

Nothing you know is true. sounds just like you do with Hillary and Obama --the charges are coming!! idiot.

I was thinking exactly the same thing about you, Franco. Everyone does. Everything you post is a lie.

Everyone on your dingbat brainwashed GOP side, Dupe.lol. whatever you do don't watch anything not owned by Rupert Murdoch...

 

[bripat9643]

Yea I’d say government is a very shitty vessel for solving our problems. Individuals on the other hand are very good at it. I’m typing on a device that would’ve been considered a supercomputer in the 90s...and it fits in my palm. It’s tech making the entire globe richer, giving the impoverished worldwide access to the internet where they can participate in things like commerce and education they could not have dreamed of 10 years ago. Made by the same company that took 40 some years to be worth what our government lost track of in 10.

You should also be willing to ask the question : "What role did government play in the creation of Apple Computers?" Starting with its official corporate charter and extending through decades of taxpayer-funded (government) research and development into revolutionary technologies like the Internet, GPS, and touchscreen display.

Apple received its early stage finance from the US government's small business Investment Company program. Venture capitalists entered only after government funding had gotten Apple to the critical proof of concept stage.

Considering everything government contributed to Apple's current $1 trillion market cap, it is also shameful that Apple refuses to should its fair share of the federal tax burden, imho.

Taxpayers Helped Apple, but Apple Won’t Help Them

Whoa what is fair share? What is this amorphous, subjective term that keeps getting thrown around? At what point is fair share going to be satisfactory? In the European countries there doesn’t seem to be a satisfactory amount so taxes are constantly raised, or they realize continuously raising taxes does not help at all with job creation and they are moving right. And why is it moral to give money to a institution that LOST 1 trillion dollars since the movie the hangover was made? If that was a charity we were giving our hard earned money too, we’d be burning that bitch to the ground.

Sure apple didn’t get where they are on their own. And an interesting tidbit is that military innovation is probably the largest driver of innovation and beneficial tech for the public overall. But for that to happen, a country needs to recognize that the standard bureaucracy that politics always seems to breeds is detrimental to their military and its best to keep it out as much as possible (which many countries have). However, do you believe that if apple were in the business of whatever government dept, well say Medicare, it would be hemorrhaging as much money knowing it’s competing with google for Medicare patients and healthcare providers to use their service? If amazon ran the DMV do you think my drivers license photo would like I was ready to cry tears of rage? Faaack no. Did apple get where they are on their own. No. Did they have some help from government, sure. Was a government loan the driving force of their success, nope. What free markets do is crowd source solutions to humanities problems while rewarding the people who solve those problems. It monetizes service to humanity. After all, why are you going to pay for something that you don’t need or want? Is capatialism a perfect system, hell no. No system is, but it’s the best we have come up with. It’s not fair to capatilism to define it by the areas that is has fallen short of (areas perceived in this current tiny timeframe that’s constantly changing and improving)...but then ignore the tremendous leaps and bounds it has improved human life world wide. Read Enlightenment Now please, by Stephen Pinker, a Harvard psychologist (whose on the left so this isn’t a right wing shill propagandist). It’s absolutely nothing short of a miracle to see how far humanity has come even in the past 20 years. You will be blown away by the stats. Also Better Angels is another good one by him in the same sort of vein. Also, look up Bjorn Lomborg, he has a book (I haven’t read) but has Ted Talks, articles and videos talking about prioritizing the worlds problems and analysis and the best ways to solves them. It’s good stuff, and will show you that these free market things work pretty damn well.

It’s also important to note that the countries the likes of AOC and Bernie cite are not socialists countries. They are free market countries, with larger social programs than we have, and also larger tax rates. Real socialism is what we see in Venezuela (like 5 years ago it was heralded as a admirable success by the far left), and Cuba. Both are hell holes, and hopefully the change of leadership will help Venezuela (once a modern 1st world country with immense resources) get back in its feet. So what do you mean when you’re talking about socialism?

I think you’re simplifying world problems with an equation of government + more money = problems solved. But it’s not that simple, and government, pretty much by nature, is like a hanging flower pot where you turn the hose on full power and drench it, but only see droplets coming out of the bottom. I’m not saying government isn’t capable of any good, or doesn’t have a place. Just that you should honestly question if it is the best vessel for solving problems. Once again, it lost 1 trillion dollars. That’s a full 1/3 of what it takes in annually in tax revenue. 5% of the entire national GDP it carelessly lost in the cushions of the couch within 10 years. Is government really the best way to provide the most good? Is that going to give us the best bang for our buck?

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

No thanks. One need not look any further than europe to see what a travesty it is.

yes.....all those happy scandinavian countries......makes me sick.....

Speaking of those countries, looks like they're about to go sharia law in a few years .

 

[francoHFW]

You should also be willing to ask the question : "What role did government play in the creation of Apple Computers?" Starting with its official corporate charter and extending through decades of taxpayer-funded (government) research and development into revolutionary technologies like the Internet, GPS, and touchscreen display.

Apple received its early stage finance from the US government's small business Investment Company program. Venture capitalists entered only after government funding had gotten Apple to the critical proof of concept stage.

Considering everything government contributed to Apple's current $1 trillion market cap, it is also shameful that Apple refuses to should its fair share of the federal tax burden, imho.

Taxpayers Helped Apple, but Apple Won’t Help Them

Whoa what is fair share? What is this amorphous, subjective term that keeps getting thrown around? At what point is fair share going to be satisfactory? In the European countries there doesn’t seem to be a satisfactory amount so taxes are constantly raised, or they realize continuously raising taxes does not help at all with job creation and they are moving right. And why is it moral to give money to a institution that LOST 1 trillion dollars since the movie the hangover was made? If that was a charity we were giving our hard earned money too, we’d be burning that bitch to the ground.

Sure apple didn’t get where they are on their own. And an interesting tidbit is that military innovation is probably the largest driver of innovation and beneficial tech for the public overall. But for that to happen, a country needs to recognize that the standard bureaucracy that politics always seems to breeds is detrimental to their military and its best to keep it out as much as possible (which many countries have). However, do you believe that if apple were in the business of whatever government dept, well say Medicare, it would be hemorrhaging as much money knowing it’s competing with google for Medicare patients and healthcare providers to use their service? If amazon ran the DMV do you think my drivers license photo would like I was ready to cry tears of rage? Faaack no. Did apple get where they are on their own. No. Did they have some help from government, sure. Was a government loan the driving force of their success, nope. What free markets do is crowd source solutions to humanities problems while rewarding the people who solve those problems. It monetizes service to humanity. After all, why are you going to pay for something that you don’t need or want? Is capatialism a perfect system, hell no. No system is, but it’s the best we have come up with. It’s not fair to capatilism to define it by the areas that is has fallen short of (areas perceived in this current tiny timeframe that’s constantly changing and improving)...but then ignore the tremendous leaps and bounds it has improved human life world wide. Read Enlightenment Now please, by Stephen Pinker, a Harvard psychologist (whose on the left so this isn’t a right wing shill propagandist). It’s absolutely nothing short of a miracle to see how far humanity has come even in the past 20 years. You will be blown away by the stats. Also Better Angels is another good one by him in the same sort of vein. Also, look up Bjorn Lomborg, he has a book (I haven’t read) but has Ted Talks, articles and videos talking about prioritizing the worlds problems and analysis and the best ways to solves them. It’s good stuff, and will show you that these free market things work pretty damn well.

It’s also important to note that the countries the likes of AOC and Bernie cite are not socialists countries. They are free market countries, with larger social programs than we have, and also larger tax rates. Real socialism is what we see in Venezuela (like 5 years ago it was heralded as a admirable success by the far left), and Cuba. Both are hell holes, and hopefully the change of leadership will help Venezuela (once a modern 1st world country with immense resources) get back in its feet. So what do you mean when you’re talking about socialism?

I think you’re simplifying world problems with an equation of government + more money = problems solved. But it’s not that simple, and government, pretty much by nature, is like a hanging flower pot where you turn the hose on full power and drench it, but only see droplets coming out of the bottom. I’m not saying government isn’t capable of any good, or doesn’t have a place. Just that you should honestly question if it is the best vessel for solving problems. Once again, it lost 1 trillion dollars. That’s a full 1/3 of what it takes in annually in tax revenue. 5% of the entire national GDP it carelessly lost in the cushions of the couch within 10 years. Is government really the best way to provide the most good? Is that going to give us the best bang for our buck?

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

I deny it. They were fourth ranked in 1950 they were done in comparison soon after. A corrupt oligarchy and a God damn mess. I'm sure you Republicans had something to do with Chavez and Allende fail, dingbat. Read something. Republicans and conservatives screw up everything, especially the last 35-40 years.

 

[bripat9643]

Whoa what is fair share? What is this amorphous, subjective term that keeps getting thrown around? At what point is fair share going to be satisfactory? In the European countries there doesn’t seem to be a satisfactory amount so taxes are constantly raised, or they realize continuously raising taxes does not help at all with job creation and they are moving right. And why is it moral to give money to a institution that LOST 1 trillion dollars since the movie the hangover was made? If that was a charity we were giving our hard earned money too, we’d be burning that bitch to the ground.

Sure apple didn’t get where they are on their own. And an interesting tidbit is that military innovation is probably the largest driver of innovation and beneficial tech for the public overall. But for that to happen, a country needs to recognize that the standard bureaucracy that politics always seems to breeds is detrimental to their military and its best to keep it out as much as possible (which many countries have). However, do you believe that if apple were in the business of whatever government dept, well say Medicare, it would be hemorrhaging as much money knowing it’s competing with google for Medicare patients and healthcare providers to use their service? If amazon ran the DMV do you think my drivers license photo would like I was ready to cry tears of rage? Faaack no. Did apple get where they are on their own. No. Did they have some help from government, sure. Was a government loan the driving force of their success, nope. What free markets do is crowd source solutions to humanities problems while rewarding the people who solve those problems. It monetizes service to humanity. After all, why are you going to pay for something that you don’t need or want? Is capatialism a perfect system, hell no. No system is, but it’s the best we have come up with. It’s not fair to capatilism to define it by the areas that is has fallen short of (areas perceived in this current tiny timeframe that’s constantly changing and improving)...but then ignore the tremendous leaps and bounds it has improved human life world wide. Read Enlightenment Now please, by Stephen Pinker, a Harvard psychologist (whose on the left so this isn’t a right wing shill propagandist). It’s absolutely nothing short of a miracle to see how far humanity has come even in the past 20 years. You will be blown away by the stats. Also Better Angels is another good one by him in the same sort of vein. Also, look up Bjorn Lomborg, he has a book (I haven’t read) but has Ted Talks, articles and videos talking about prioritizing the worlds problems and analysis and the best ways to solves them. It’s good stuff, and will show you that these free market things work pretty damn well.

It’s also important to note that the countries the likes of AOC and Bernie cite are not socialists countries. They are free market countries, with larger social programs than we have, and also larger tax rates. Real socialism is what we see in Venezuela (like 5 years ago it was heralded as a admirable success by the far left), and Cuba. Both are hell holes, and hopefully the change of leadership will help Venezuela (once a modern 1st world country with immense resources) get back in its feet. So what do you mean when you’re talking about socialism?

I think you’re simplifying world problems with an equation of government + more money = problems solved. But it’s not that simple, and government, pretty much by nature, is like a hanging flower pot where you turn the hose on full power and drench it, but only see droplets coming out of the bottom. I’m not saying government isn’t capable of any good, or doesn’t have a place. Just that you should honestly question if it is the best vessel for solving problems. Once again, it lost 1 trillion dollars. That’s a full 1/3 of what it takes in annually in tax revenue. 5% of the entire national GDP it carelessly lost in the cushions of the couch within 10 years. Is government really the best way to provide the most good? Is that going to give us the best bang for our buck?

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

I deny it. They were fourth ranked in 1950 they were done in comparison soon after. A corrupt oligarchy and a God damn mess. I'm sure you Republicans had something to do with Chavez and Allende fail, dingbat. Read something. Republicans and conservatives screw up everything, especially the last 35-40 years.

Do you have any evidence to support that contention? They were done after the guy who replaced Marcos Pérez Jiménez in 1958. He was a Marxist. They started swirling down the drain after that.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

When Venezuela returned to democracy in 1958, it looked like it was poised to begin an era of unprecedented prosperity and political stability.

However, Venezuela’s democratic experiment was doomed from the start, and one needn’t look any further at the political background of its very own founder, Rómulo Betancourt, to understand why it’s entire political system was built on a house of cards.

Rómulo Betancourt was an ex-communist who renounced his Marxist ways in favor of a more gradualist approach of establishing socialism. Despite evolving into more of a social democrat, Betancourt still believed in a very activist role for the State in economic matters.

Betancourt was part of a generation of intellectuals and student activists that aimed to fully nationalize Venezuela’s petroleum sector and use petroleum rents to establish a welfare state of sorts. These political figures firmly believed that for Venezuela to become a truly independent country and free itself from the influence of foreign interests, the government must have complete dominion over the oil sector.

Under this premise, a nationalized oil industry would finance cheap gasoline, “free” education at all levels, healthcare, and a wide array of other public services.

This rhetoric strongly resonated among the lower and middle classes, which would form the bulwark of Betancourt’s party, Acción Democrática, voter base for years to come.

At its core, this vision of economic organization assumed that the government must manage the economy through central planning. Oil would be produced, managed, and administered by the state, while the government would try to phase out the private sector.

Interventionism from the Start
Betancourt’s administration, while not as interventionist as succeeding 4th Republic governments, capped off several worrisome policies, which included:

1. Devaluation of the Venezuelan currency, the Bolívar.
2. Failed land reform that encouraged squatting and undermined the property rights of landowners.
3. The establishment of a Constitutional order based on positive rights and an active role for the Venezuelan state in economic affairs

Betancourt’s government followed-up with considerable tax hikes that saw income tax rates triple to 36%. In typical fashion, spending increases would be accompanied with these increases, as the Venezuelan government started to generate fiscal deficits because of its out of control social programs. These growing deficits would become a fixture in Venezuelan public finance during the pre-Chávez era.

The Nationalization of the Oil Industry
While Betancourt did not achieve his end goal of nationalizing the Venezuelan oil industry, his government laid the foundation for subsequent interventions in that sector.

Thanks to the large oil boom of the 1970s, the government of Carlos Andrés Pérez capitalized on the unprecedented flow of petroleum rents brought about by the 1970s energy crisis where oil-producing countries like Venezuela benefited handsomely from high oil prices.

Betancourt’s vision was finally achieved in 1975, when Carlos Andrés Pérez’s government nationalized the petroleum sector. The nationalization of Venezuela’s oil industry fundamentally altered the nature of the Venezuelan state. Venezuela morphed into a petrostate, in which the concept of the consent of the governed was effectively turned on its head.​

 

[francoHFW]

You should also be willing to ask the question : "What role did government play in the creation of Apple Computers?" Starting with its official corporate charter and extending through decades of taxpayer-funded (government) research and development into revolutionary technologies like the Internet, GPS, and touchscreen display.

Apple received its early stage finance from the US government's small business Investment Company program. Venture capitalists entered only after government funding had gotten Apple to the critical proof of concept stage.

Considering everything government contributed to Apple's current $1 trillion market cap, it is also shameful that Apple refuses to should its fair share of the federal tax burden, imho.

Taxpayers Helped Apple, but Apple Won’t Help Them

Whoa what is fair share? What is this amorphous, subjective term that keeps getting thrown around? At what point is fair share going to be satisfactory? In the European countries there doesn’t seem to be a satisfactory amount so taxes are constantly raised, or they realize continuously raising taxes does not help at all with job creation and they are moving right. And why is it moral to give money to a institution that LOST 1 trillion dollars since the movie the hangover was made? If that was a charity we were giving our hard earned money too, we’d be burning that bitch to the ground.

Sure apple didn’t get where they are on their own. And an interesting tidbit is that military innovation is probably the largest driver of innovation and beneficial tech for the public overall. But for that to happen, a country needs to recognize that the standard bureaucracy that politics always seems to breeds is detrimental to their military and its best to keep it out as much as possible (which many countries have). However, do you believe that if apple were in the business of whatever government dept, well say Medicare, it would be hemorrhaging as much money knowing it’s competing with google for Medicare patients and healthcare providers to use their service? If amazon ran the DMV do you think my drivers license photo would like I was ready to cry tears of rage? Faaack no. Did apple get where they are on their own. No. Did they have some help from government, sure. Was a government loan the driving force of their success, nope. What free markets do is crowd source solutions to humanities problems while rewarding the people who solve those problems. It monetizes service to humanity. After all, why are you going to pay for something that you don’t need or want? Is capatialism a perfect system, hell no. No system is, but it’s the best we have come up with. It’s not fair to capatilism to define it by the areas that is has fallen short of (areas perceived in this current tiny timeframe that’s constantly changing and improving)...but then ignore the tremendous leaps and bounds it has improved human life world wide. Read Enlightenment Now please, by Stephen Pinker, a Harvard psychologist (whose on the left so this isn’t a right wing shill propagandist). It’s absolutely nothing short of a miracle to see how far humanity has come even in the past 20 years. You will be blown away by the stats. Also Better Angels is another good one by him in the same sort of vein. Also, look up Bjorn Lomborg, he has a book (I haven’t read) but has Ted Talks, articles and videos talking about prioritizing the worlds problems and analysis and the best ways to solves them. It’s good stuff, and will show you that these free market things work pretty damn well.

It’s also important to note that the countries the likes of AOC and Bernie cite are not socialists countries. They are free market countries, with larger social programs than we have, and also larger tax rates. Real socialism is what we see in Venezuela (like 5 years ago it was heralded as a admirable success by the far left), and Cuba. Both are hell holes, and hopefully the change of leadership will help Venezuela (once a modern 1st world country with immense resources) get back in its feet. So what do you mean when you’re talking about socialism?

I think you’re simplifying world problems with an equation of government + more money = problems solved. But it’s not that simple, and government, pretty much by nature, is like a hanging flower pot where you turn the hose on full power and drench it, but only see droplets coming out of the bottom. I’m not saying government isn’t capable of any good, or doesn’t have a place. Just that you should honestly question if it is the best vessel for solving problems. Once again, it lost 1 trillion dollars. That’s a full 1/3 of what it takes in annually in tax revenue. 5% of the entire national GDP it carelessly lost in the cushions of the couch within 10 years. Is government really the best way to provide the most good? Is that going to give us the best bang for our buck?

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

 

[bripat9643]

Whoa what is fair share? What is this amorphous, subjective term that keeps getting thrown around? At what point is fair share going to be satisfactory? In the European countries there doesn’t seem to be a satisfactory amount so taxes are constantly raised, or they realize continuously raising taxes does not help at all with job creation and they are moving right. And why is it moral to give money to a institution that LOST 1 trillion dollars since the movie the hangover was made? If that was a charity we were giving our hard earned money too, we’d be burning that bitch to the ground.

Sure apple didn’t get where they are on their own. And an interesting tidbit is that military innovation is probably the largest driver of innovation and beneficial tech for the public overall. But for that to happen, a country needs to recognize that the standard bureaucracy that politics always seems to breeds is detrimental to their military and its best to keep it out as much as possible (which many countries have). However, do you believe that if apple were in the business of whatever government dept, well say Medicare, it would be hemorrhaging as much money knowing it’s competing with google for Medicare patients and healthcare providers to use their service? If amazon ran the DMV do you think my drivers license photo would like I was ready to cry tears of rage? Faaack no. Did apple get where they are on their own. No. Did they have some help from government, sure. Was a government loan the driving force of their success, nope. What free markets do is crowd source solutions to humanities problems while rewarding the people who solve those problems. It monetizes service to humanity. After all, why are you going to pay for something that you don’t need or want? Is capatialism a perfect system, hell no. No system is, but it’s the best we have come up with. It’s not fair to capatilism to define it by the areas that is has fallen short of (areas perceived in this current tiny timeframe that’s constantly changing and improving)...but then ignore the tremendous leaps and bounds it has improved human life world wide. Read Enlightenment Now please, by Stephen Pinker, a Harvard psychologist (whose on the left so this isn’t a right wing shill propagandist). It’s absolutely nothing short of a miracle to see how far humanity has come even in the past 20 years. You will be blown away by the stats. Also Better Angels is another good one by him in the same sort of vein. Also, look up Bjorn Lomborg, he has a book (I haven’t read) but has Ted Talks, articles and videos talking about prioritizing the worlds problems and analysis and the best ways to solves them. It’s good stuff, and will show you that these free market things work pretty damn well.

It’s also important to note that the countries the likes of AOC and Bernie cite are not socialists countries. They are free market countries, with larger social programs than we have, and also larger tax rates. Real socialism is what we see in Venezuela (like 5 years ago it was heralded as a admirable success by the far left), and Cuba. Both are hell holes, and hopefully the change of leadership will help Venezuela (once a modern 1st world country with immense resources) get back in its feet. So what do you mean when you’re talking about socialism?

I think you’re simplifying world problems with an equation of government + more money = problems solved. But it’s not that simple, and government, pretty much by nature, is like a hanging flower pot where you turn the hose on full power and drench it, but only see droplets coming out of the bottom. I’m not saying government isn’t capable of any good, or doesn’t have a place. Just that you should honestly question if it is the best vessel for solving problems. Once again, it lost 1 trillion dollars. That’s a full 1/3 of what it takes in annually in tax revenue. 5% of the entire national GDP it carelessly lost in the cushions of the couch within 10 years. Is government really the best way to provide the most good? Is that going to give us the best bang for our buck?

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

 

[francoHFW]

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

I deny it. They were fourth ranked in 1950 they were done in comparison soon after. A corrupt oligarchy and a God damn mess. I'm sure you Republicans had something to do with Chavez and Allende fail, dingbat. Read something. Republicans and conservatives screw up everything, especially the last 35-40 years.

Do you have any evidence to support that contention? They were done after the guy who replaced Marcos Pérez Jiménez in 1958. He was a Marxist. They started swirling down the drain after that.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

When Venezuela returned to democracy in 1958, it looked like it was poised to begin an era of unprecedented prosperity and political stability.

However, Venezuela’s democratic experiment was doomed from the start, and one needn’t look any further at the political background of its very own founder, Rómulo Betancourt, to understand why it’s entire political system was built on a house of cards.

Rómulo Betancourt was an ex-communist who renounced his Marxist ways in favor of a more gradualist approach of establishing socialism. Despite evolving into more of a social democrat, Betancourt still believed in a very activist role for the State in economic matters.

Betancourt was part of a generation of intellectuals and student activists that aimed to fully nationalize Venezuela’s petroleum sector and use petroleum rents to establish a welfare state of sorts. These political figures firmly believed that for Venezuela to become a truly independent country and free itself from the influence of foreign interests, the government must have complete dominion over the oil sector.

Under this premise, a nationalized oil industry would finance cheap gasoline, “free” education at all levels, healthcare, and a wide array of other public services.

This rhetoric strongly resonated among the lower and middle classes, which would form the bulwark of Betancourt’s party, Acción Democrática, voter base for years to come.

At its core, this vision of economic organization assumed that the government must manage the economy through central planning. Oil would be produced, managed, and administered by the state, while the government would try to phase out the private sector.

Interventionism from the Start
Betancourt’s administration, while not as interventionist as succeeding 4th Republic governments, capped off several worrisome policies, which included:

1. Devaluation of the Venezuelan currency, the Bolívar.
2. Failed land reform that encouraged squatting and undermined the property rights of landowners.
3. The establishment of a Constitutional order based on positive rights and an active role for the Venezuelan state in economic affairs

Betancourt’s government followed-up with considerable tax hikes that saw income tax rates triple to 36%. In typical fashion, spending increases would be accompanied with these increases, as the Venezuelan government started to generate fiscal deficits because of its out of control social programs. These growing deficits would become a fixture in Venezuelan public finance during the pre-Chávez era.

The Nationalization of the Oil Industry
While Betancourt did not achieve his end goal of nationalizing the Venezuelan oil industry, his government laid the foundation for subsequent interventions in that sector.

Thanks to the large oil boom of the 1970s, the government of Carlos Andrés Pérez capitalized on the unprecedented flow of petroleum rents brought about by the 1970s energy crisis where oil-producing countries like Venezuela benefited handsomely from high oil prices.

Betancourt’s vision was finally achieved in 1975, when Carlos Andrés Pérez’s government nationalized the petroleum sector. The nationalization of Venezuela’s oil industry fundamentally altered the nature of the Venezuelan state. Venezuela morphed into a petrostate, in which the concept of the consent of the governed was effectively turned on its head.​

So Venezuela only works under dictators as a banana Republic but oil. LOL bad propaganda.

 

[francoHFW]

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

Is Fox not mention it? Trump is doing it to Venezuela today. Sanctions and tariffs and covert action everywhere, dumbass. Just like Kissinger did with Argentina and chili and everywhere else. Wake up and smell the coffee. They just wanted to elect their own government. And they were not communist. Democratic Socialist and not Chumps for the GOP. Not America, the GOP piece of s***. Read a history book. The GOP has been grabbing money from people around the world since Teddy Roosevelt and McKinley and Hawaii. Military adventures in the Dominican Republic Cuba Mexico El Salvador Honduras and on and on. Under the GOP. Got it dumbass? And now Trump is doing the worst we've done in sometime, or at least trying to.

And it was the GOP under George W bush that wrecked the world economy in 2008 and made all this stuff worse. It's like the GOP World depression of 1929 that led to chaos and Hitler and Japanese militarists and on and on. Your party is a disgrace and disaster and so are you.

 

[francoHFW]

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

the government doesn't become communist until there's a revolution at least in every case they've ever gone communist. Has to be put in by violence by minority.

 

[Rustic]

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

the government doesn't become communist until there's a revolution at least in every case they've ever gone communist. Has to be put in by violence by minority.

 

[francoHFW]

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

the government doesn't become communist until there's a revolution at least in every case they've ever gone communist. Has to be put in by violence by minority.

You idiots GOP jackasses think you are America. Obama wasn't apologizing for America, he was apologizing for George W bush, a complete disaster along with Cheney and all the rest. Wrecked the financial world and the Middle East unbelievable. And you morons don't even know about it, half of you.

 

[francoHFW]

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

The gop's fault dumbass, not America every time.

 

[bripat9643]

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

the government doesn't become communist until there's a revolution at least in every case they've ever gone communist. Has to be put in by violence by minority.

The people who stage communist coups were communists since they were in their 20s. Allende and Chavez were both a couple of commies. That "minority" is always a bunch of die-hard commies.

 

[bripat9643]

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

The gop's fault dumbass, not America every time.

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

 

[bripat9643]

it was once ranked 4th in terms of GDP per capita, dumbass.

Venezuela Before Chavez: A Prelude to Socialist Failure | José Niño

From the 1910s to the 1930s, the much-maligned dictator Juan Vicente Gómez helped consolidate the Venezuelan state and modernized an otherwise neocolonial backwater by allowing market actors, domestic and foreign, to freely exploit newly discovered oil deposits. Venezuela would experience substantial economic growth and quickly establish itself as one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries by the 1950s.

In the 1950s, General Marcos Pérez Jiménez would continue Gómez’s legacy. At this juncture, Venezuela was at its peak, with a fourth place ranking in terms of per capita GDP worldwide.

More Than Just Oil
While oil exploitation did play a considerable role in Venezuela’s meteoric ascent from the 1920s to 1970s, this only scratches the surface in explaining how Venezuela became so prosperous during this period. A combination of a relatively free economy, an immigration system that attracted and assimilated laborers from Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and a system of strong property rights, allowed Venezuela to experience unprecedented levels of economic development from the 1940s up until the 1970s.​

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

Is Fox not mention it? Trump is doing it to Venezuela today. Sanctions and tariffs and covert action everywhere, dumbass. Just like Kissinger did with Argentina and chili and everywhere else. Wake up and smell the coffee. They just wanted to elect their own government. And they were not communist. Democratic Socialist and not Chumps for the GOP. Not America, the GOP piece of s***. Read a history book. The GOP has been grabbing money from people around the world since Teddy Roosevelt and McKinley and Hawaii. Military adventures in the Dominican Republic Cuba Mexico El Salvador Honduras and on and on. Under the GOP. Got it dumbass? And now Trump is doing the worst we've done in sometime, or at least trying to.

And it was the GOP under George W bush that wrecked the world economy in 2008 and made all this stuff worse. It's like the GOP World depression of 1929 that led to chaos and Hitler and Japanese militarists and on and on. Your party is a disgrace and disaster and so are you.

ROFL! What "covert action?" What tariffs did he impost on Venezuela? If socialism is such a superior system, then why does every economic hiccup in the USA wreck it?

It's a wonder how you leftwing idiots rationalize the repeated failure of your schemes. It's always someone else's fault.

No one is fooled.

 

[francoHFW]

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

the government doesn't become communist until there's a revolution at least in every case they've ever gone communist. Has to be put in by violence by minority.

The people who stage communist coups were communists since they were in their 20s. Allende and Chavez were both a couple of commies. That "minority" is always a bunch of die-hard commies.

Democratic socialists, brainwashed functional moron.

 

[francoHFW]

Yes it was ranked number four in 1950, in competition with destroyed countries from World War II. By 1982 it was a wreck.
From Richer to Poorer: Venezuela's Economic Tragedy Visualized

You have ridiculous propaganda for every need, Super Duper. Venezuela did fine under Hugo Chavez until George W bush wrecked the world economy.

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

Is Fox not mention it? Trump is doing it to Venezuela today. Sanctions and tariffs and covert action everywhere, dumbass. Just like Kissinger did with Argentina and chili and everywhere else. Wake up and smell the coffee. They just wanted to elect their own government. And they were not communist. Democratic Socialist and not Chumps for the GOP. Not America, the GOP piece of s***. Read a history book. The GOP has been grabbing money from people around the world since Teddy Roosevelt and McKinley and Hawaii. Military adventures in the Dominican Republic Cuba Mexico El Salvador Honduras and on and on. Under the GOP. Got it dumbass? And now Trump is doing the worst we've done in sometime, or at least trying to.

And it was the GOP under George W bush that wrecked the world economy in 2008 and made all this stuff worse. It's like the GOP World depression of 1929 that led to chaos and Hitler and Japanese militarists and on and on. Your party is a disgrace and disaster and so are you.

ROFL! What "covert action?" What tariffs did he impost on Venezuela? If socialism is such a superior system, then why does every economic hiccup in the USA wreck it?

It's a wonder how you leftwing idiots rationalize the repeated failure of your schemes. It's always someone else's fault.

No one is fooled.

2008 was a hiccup? Brainwashed functional moron. it cost trillions to avert a full-scale depression. And a lot of places didn't have the money.

Google it I'm not your mother, or try watching some real news.