Whoops! CIA Man Retracts Claim on Waterboarding

[CMike]

I am talking about terrorist attacks in the war against Al Qaida, not all shooting incidents in the past decade.

The name on the memo John Rizzo is not anonymous. He is accountable for what was in the memo.

Ah. So you change the goal posts to only Al Queda attacks. I'm sure that makes a big difference to those killed that only Al Queda attacks count in your book.

In that case, that calls into question these attacks:

June 2009: Little Rock, Arkansas Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, an American Muslim opened fire on a U.S. military recruiting office.

Muhammad was not part of any terrorist group, nor was his attack part of a larger conspiracy, according to Thomas. "We believe that it's associated with his disagreement over the military operations," the police chief said.​

..as well as the Fort Hood shooting, where the shooter was apparently self-radicalized, mentally unstable, and acted alone.

Coyote, coyote coyote...you should really read your own links.

You are quoting the policeman. I doubt the policeman was privy regarding that information.

This is from your own link.

A 23-year-old convert to Islam with "political and religious motives" killed a soldier just out of basic training and wounded another in a targeted attack on a military recruiting center in Arkansas, police said.

"The suspect, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, reportedly had been under investigation by an FBI joint terrorism task force after he traveled to Yemen and was arrested there for using a Somali passport. The probe was in its early stages and based on Muhammad's trip to Yemen, according to ABC News."

Didn't the underwear bomber travel to Yemen too to meet his Al Qaida contacts?

 

[CMike]

This.

What secret prisons we run around the globe?

Why is it the strongest supporters of the Bush bullshit are frequently the least informed? The info is less than four years old so I understand. Your camp needs about an 800 year learning curve.
Bush acknowledges secret prisons - Security- msnbc.com

From your link

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday acknowledged previously secret CIA prisons around the world and said 14 high-value terrorism suspects — including the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks — have been transferred from the system to Guantanamo Bay for trials.

Okay, so they are captured in another country, put in a prison, until they are transfered to Gitmo for trial. And your point is?

What are they supposed to do with terrorists that they may capture in Afghanistan, lock them in the CIA bathroom, until they get to Gitmo?

 

[CMike]

You've got to be kidding me.....blaming all of this shit on Bush????!!! You better recheck those cases and your left wing talking points....Let me ask you this...the 2 main tools that allowed us to prevent terrorist attacks here in the USA, Patriot Act and FISA modifications....when were they passed into law?

and YOU just cherry picking crimes committed by Muslims calling them terrorist attacks????!!! Shame on you...

Patek. Calm down.

Breath deeply.

I am not blaming it on Bush. You have twitchy knees and I am not sure what you think I'm saying.

My position has been pretty well consistent in this regard - I do not blame Bush or Obama for any of the the terrorist attacks.

I think both presidents did/are doing their best to keep a fine balance between security and freedom, and that is not an easy line to walk. For example some of the changes to the "no fly" listings occurred under the Bush administration because becuase they were to bulky, cumbersome and contained the names of or similar to many innocent people. After the Christmas incident it is being revisited again.

My listing of terrorist attacks was in response to Mike's fraudulent claim: As I said for 7 years we were free of them within the US, and we have 3 so far under Obama.

The Patriot Act was signed into law October 26, 2001.

An additional edit: re-read my list. You'll find it contains acts by non-muslims.

My claim was correct. I am talking about the war regarding Al Qaida. Isn't this the subject of this thread.

I am not talking about any shooting that happened in America.

 

[CurveLight]

What secret prisons we run around the globe?

Why is it the strongest supporters of the Bush bullshit are frequently the least informed? The info is less than four years old so I understand. Your camp needs about an 800 year learning curve.
Bush acknowledges secret prisons - Security- msnbc.com

From your link

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday acknowledged previously secret CIA prisons around the world and said 14 high-value terrorism suspects — including the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks — have been transferred from the system to Guantanamo Bay for trials.

Okay, so they are captured in another country, put in a prison, until they are transfered to Gitmo for trial. And your point is?

What are they supposed to do with terrorists that they may capture in Afghanistan, lock them in the CIA bathroom, until they get to Gitmo?

Gee. I may have read somewhere the US military has a fairly large presence in both Iraq and afghanistan and this may be purely wild speculation, but isn't it possible there are MP units, jails, and detention centers? Naw. You're right. Kidnapping people from random nations and keeping them in secret prisons is the only way to handle the logistics.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

If iran had secret prisons and publicly acknowledged them you wouldn't be able to hear a thunderstorm from all the foot stomping demanding that iran be bombed and forced to stop it's State sanctioned involuntary relocation plan.

 

[CMike]

Why is it the strongest supporters of the Bush bullshit are frequently the least informed? The info is less than four years old so I understand. Your camp needs about an 800 year learning curve.
Bush acknowledges secret prisons - Security- msnbc.com

From your link

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday acknowledged previously secret CIA prisons around the world and said 14 high-value terrorism suspects — including the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks — have been transferred from the system to Guantanamo Bay for trials.

Okay, so they are captured in another country, put in a prison, until they are transfered to Gitmo for trial. And your point is?

What are they supposed to do with terrorists that they may capture in Afghanistan, lock them in the CIA bathroom, until they get to Gitmo?

Gee. I may have read somewhere the US military has a fairly large presence in both Iraq and afghanistan and this may be purely wild speculation, but isn't it possible there are MP units, jails, and detention centers? Naw. You're right. Kidnapping people from random nations and keeping them in secret prisons is the only way to handle the logistics.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

If iran had secret prisons and publicly acknowledged them you wouldn't be able to hear a thunderstorm from all the foot stomping demanding that iran be bombed and forced to stop it's State sanctioned involuntary relocation plan.

According to your own link they are only put in the prison until they are transfered to Gitmo.

And Al Qaida terrorists are not just prisoners. Information needs to be gotten from them to stop terrorist attacks from happening.

 

[CurveLight]

From your link

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday acknowledged previously secret CIA prisons around the world and said 14 high-value terrorism suspects — including the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks — have been transferred from the system to Guantanamo Bay for trials.

Okay, so they are captured in another country, put in a prison, until they are transfered to Gitmo for trial. And your point is?

What are they supposed to do with terrorists that they may capture in Afghanistan, lock them in the CIA bathroom, until they get to Gitmo?

Gee. I may have read somewhere the US military has a fairly large presence in both Iraq and afghanistan and this may be purely wild speculation, but isn't it possible there are MP units, jails, and detention centers? Naw. You're right. Kidnapping people from random nations and keeping them in secret prisons is the only way to handle the logistics.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

If iran had secret prisons and publicly acknowledged them you wouldn't be able to hear a thunderstorm from all the foot stomping demanding that iran be bombed and forced to stop it's State sanctioned involuntary relocation plan.

According to your own link they are only put in the prison until they are transfered to Gitmo.

And Al Qaida terrorists are not just prisoners. Information needs to be gotten from them to stop terrorist attacks from happening.

So you approve the use of secret prisons by any nation?

 

[Coyote]

I am talking about terrorist attacks in the war against Al Qaida, not all shooting incidents in the past decade.

The name on the memo John Rizzo is not anonymous. He is accountable for what was in the memo.

Ah. So you change the goal posts to only Al Queda attacks. I'm sure that makes a big difference to those killed that only Al Queda attacks count in your book.

In that case, that calls into question these attacks:

June 2009: Little Rock, Arkansas Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, an American Muslim opened fire on a U.S. military recruiting office.

Muhammad was not part of any terrorist group, nor was his attack part of a larger conspiracy, according to Thomas. "We believe that it's associated with his disagreement over the military operations," the police chief said.​

..as well as the Fort Hood shooting, where the shooter was apparently self-radicalized, mentally unstable, and acted alone.

Coyote, coyote coyote...you should really read your own links.

You are quoting the policeman. I doubt the policeman was privy regarding that information.

This is from your own link.

A 23-year-old convert to Islam with "political and religious motives" killed a soldier just out of basic training and wounded another in a targeted attack on a military recruiting center in Arkansas, police said.

"The suspect, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, reportedly had been under investigation by an FBI joint terrorism task force after he traveled to Yemen and was arrested there for using a Somali passport. The probe was in its early stages and based on Muhammad's trip to Yemen, according to ABC News."

Didn't the underwear bomber travel to Yemen too to meet his Al Qaida contacts?

Mike. That doesn't change the facts presented: Muhammad was not part of any terrorist group, nor was his attack part of a larger conspiracy.

Unless you can show that he was part of a terrorist group or part of a larger conspiracy, the point stands.

 

[Coyote]

From your link

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday acknowledged previously secret CIA prisons around the world and said 14 high-value terrorism suspects — including the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks — have been transferred from the system to Guantanamo Bay for trials.

Okay, so they are captured in another country, put in a prison, until they are transfered to Gitmo for trial. And your point is?

What are they supposed to do with terrorists that they may capture in Afghanistan, lock them in the CIA bathroom, until they get to Gitmo?

Gee. I may have read somewhere the US military has a fairly large presence in both Iraq and afghanistan and this may be purely wild speculation, but isn't it possible there are MP units, jails, and detention centers? Naw. You're right. Kidnapping people from random nations and keeping them in secret prisons is the only way to handle the logistics.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

If iran had secret prisons and publicly acknowledged them you wouldn't be able to hear a thunderstorm from all the foot stomping demanding that iran be bombed and forced to stop it's State sanctioned involuntary relocation plan.

According to your own link they are only put in the prison until they are transfered to Gitmo.

And Al Qaida terrorists are not just prisoners. Information needs to be gotten from them to stop terrorist attacks from happening.

Some of them were innocent.

 

[Coyote]

You've got to be kidding me.....blaming all of this shit on Bush????!!! You better recheck those cases and your left wing talking points....Let me ask you this...the 2 main tools that allowed us to prevent terrorist attacks here in the USA, Patriot Act and FISA modifications....when were they passed into law?

and YOU just cherry picking crimes committed by Muslims calling them terrorist attacks????!!! Shame on you...

Patek. Calm down.

Breath deeply.

I am not blaming it on Bush. You have twitchy knees and I am not sure what you think I'm saying.

My position has been pretty well consistent in this regard - I do not blame Bush or Obama for any of the the terrorist attacks.

I think both presidents did/are doing their best to keep a fine balance between security and freedom, and that is not an easy line to walk. For example some of the changes to the "no fly" listings occurred under the Bush administration because becuase they were to bulky, cumbersome and contained the names of or similar to many innocent people. After the Christmas incident it is being revisited again.

My listing of terrorist attacks was in response to Mike's fraudulent claim: As I said for 7 years we were free of them within the US, and we have 3 so far under Obama.

The Patriot Act was signed into law October 26, 2001.

An additional edit: re-read my list. You'll find it contains acts by non-muslims.

My claim was correct. I am talking about the war regarding Al Qaida. Isn't this the subject of this thread.

I am not talking about any shooting that happened in America.

The only way you can make your claim that Bush kept us "safe" from terrorist attacks for 7 years is by grossly redefining the issue to the point of nonsensical. That same redefinition would throw out all of the "terrorist attacks" that occured under Obama as well, leaving only the Underwear Bomber.

And you have the audacity to try and dress down lefties for making political hay?

 

[SFC Ollie]

We used water boarding on 3 people. Supposedly we received some valuable information from them that probably saved American lives. At the time it was sanctioned by the Government, now it isn't. I don't know about this former agent and why he would lie. Obviously we cannot believe anything he says now.

I believe that we were justified in the use of enhanced measures, and I believe they were only used when it was thought that lives could be saved.

Pay attention folks. This is the problem with America. Whatever we do it is "necessary" regardless if it is torture or killing innocent civilians. Look how he also claimed we waterboarded only 3 people. How does he know that? Did the press friendly Cheney administration openly share these claims and back them up with facts? Or did he invent that number to serve his only Master? Furthermore, with the secret prisons we operate around the globe, how can Americans know what is being done in our name?

This.

This is from an idiot who is answering my post knowing that the only way I will see it is if someone quotes it. Bentlight has no clue as to what my statement was based on because he hasn't been following the thread. He is a moron who is best left in ignorland.

 

[CMike]

Patek. Calm down.

Breath deeply.

I am not blaming it on Bush. You have twitchy knees and I am not sure what you think I'm saying.

My position has been pretty well consistent in this regard - I do not blame Bush or Obama for any of the the terrorist attacks.

I think both presidents did/are doing their best to keep a fine balance between security and freedom, and that is not an easy line to walk. For example some of the changes to the "no fly" listings occurred under the Bush administration because becuase they were to bulky, cumbersome and contained the names of or similar to many innocent people. After the Christmas incident it is being revisited again.

My listing of terrorist attacks was in response to Mike's fraudulent claim: As I said for 7 years we were free of them within the US, and we have 3 so far under Obama.

The Patriot Act was signed into law October 26, 2001.

An additional edit: re-read my list. You'll find it contains acts by non-muslims.

My claim was correct. I am talking about the war regarding Al Qaida. Isn't this the subject of this thread.

I am not talking about any shooting that happened in America.

The only way you can make your claim that Bush kept us "safe" from terrorist attacks for 7 years is by grossly redefining the issue to the point of nonsensical. That same redefinition would throw out all of the "terrorist attacks" that occured under Obama as well, leaving only the Underwear Bomber.

And you have the audacity to try and dress down lefties for making political hay?

Hello? We are discussing the war with Al Qaida.

All 3 terrorist attacks in the US under Obama are linked to Al Qaida.

 

[CMike]

Gee. I may have read somewhere the US military has a fairly large presence in both Iraq and afghanistan and this may be purely wild speculation, but isn't it possible there are MP units, jails, and detention centers? Naw. You're right. Kidnapping people from random nations and keeping them in secret prisons is the only way to handle the logistics.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

If iran had secret prisons and publicly acknowledged them you wouldn't be able to hear a thunderstorm from all the foot stomping demanding that iran be bombed and forced to stop it's State sanctioned involuntary relocation plan.

According to your own link they are only put in the prison until they are transfered to Gitmo.

And Al Qaida terrorists are not just prisoners. Information needs to be gotten from them to stop terrorist attacks from happening.

Some of them were innocent.

Which ones?

According to the link they were being transfered to Gitmo for trial.

 

[Coyote]

According to your own link they are only put in the prison until they are transfered to Gitmo.

And Al Qaida terrorists are not just prisoners. Information needs to be gotten from them to stop terrorist attacks from happening.

Some of them were innocent.

Which ones?

According to the link they were being transfered to Gitmo for trial.

We're talking about secret prisons and extraordinary renditions right?

 

[Coyote]

My claim was correct. I am talking about the war regarding Al Qaida. Isn't this the subject of this thread.

I am not talking about any shooting that happened in America.

The only way you can make your claim that Bush kept us "safe" from terrorist attacks for 7 years is by grossly redefining the issue to the point of nonsensical. That same redefinition would throw out all of the "terrorist attacks" that occured under Obama as well, leaving only the Underwear Bomber.

And you have the audacity to try and dress down lefties for making political hay?

Hello? We are discussing the war with Al Qaida.

All 3 terrorist attacks in the US under Obama are linked to Al Qaida.

Negative.

Two of them were considered self-radicalized and had no actual ties to Al Queda though they may have attempted contact.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

"BOOOOOOOOOOSH...TOOOOAAATURE...CHAYNEEEEEE...FOX NOOOOOOOOOZ!!!!" Yea i think sane Americans are pretty tired of this Liberal Wingnut stuff by now. Time for some new material Wingnuts. Just a suggestion anyway.

 

[CMike]

The only way you can make your claim that Bush kept us "safe" from terrorist attacks for 7 years is by grossly redefining the issue to the point of nonsensical. That same redefinition would throw out all of the "terrorist attacks" that occured under Obama as well, leaving only the Underwear Bomber.

And you have the audacity to try and dress down lefties for making political hay?

Hello? We are discussing the war with Al Qaida.

All 3 terrorist attacks in the US under Obama are linked to Al Qaida.

Negative.

Two of them were considered self-radicalized and had no actual ties to Al Queda though they may have attempted contact.

The one that you mentioned was already under investigation because of his ties in Yemen.

According to you, they attempted contact with Al Qaida. How do you know they didn't make contact? In fact, if you acknowledge that they tried to contact Al Qaida, why wouldn't they have succeeded? It's a absurd argument.

As far as of CIA general counsel being anonymous source because he may or may not have been in the actual room during the interrogations, that is really a silly arguements.

That's like saying since Obama didn't actually write his budget proposal, he is an anonymous source when he speaks about his budget proposal or if Obama talks about troop movements he is anyonymous source because he may not have directly ordered the troop movements.

Rizzo represented the CIA to the justice department. He is not an anonymous source. He has accountability. His name was on the memo. It's his agency that conducted the interrogations. He has access to all the information.

The anonymous sources mentioned in the left wing rags have no credibility because there is no accountability for their quotes.

 

[CMike]

The recruiting station attack...


Man Claims Terror Ties in Little Rock Shooting - NYTimes.com


MEMPHIS — A Tennessee man accused of killing a soldier outside a Little Rock, Ark., military recruiting station last year has asked a judge to change his plea to guilty, claiming for the first time that he is affiliated with a Yemen-based affiliate of Al Qaeda.

In a letter to the judge presiding over his case, the accused killer, Abdulhakim Muhammad, calls himself a soldier in Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and calls the shooting “a Jihadi Attack” in retribution for the killing of Muslims by American troops.

“I wasn’t insane or post traumatic nor was I forced to do this Act,” Mr. Muhammad said in a two-page, hand-printed note in pencil. The attack, which he said did not go as planned, was “justified according to Islamic Laws and the Islamic Religion. Jihad — to fight those who wage war on Islam and Muslims

 

[CMike]

Here is the Fort Hood one.

So all 3 attacks are part of Al Qaida.

The recruiting station

The Fort Hood Attack

And of course

The NWA bomb

Fort Hood Shooter Tried to Contact al Qaeda Terrorists, Officials Say - ABC News

U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan was attempting to make contact with an individual associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.

Army knew suspected Fort Hood gunman had contact with al Qaeda recruiter.According to the officials, the Army was informed of Hasan's contact, but it is unclear what, if anything, the Army did in response.
Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI), the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, said that he requested the CIA and other intelligence agencies brief the committee on what was known, if anything, about Hasan by the U.S. intelligence community, only to be refused.

 

[CMike]

The sad thing is that in the Obama terrorist attacks, the Al Qaida operatives were known, however, because of the lack of aggresiveness THANKS TO OBAMA the terrorist attacks proceeded.

 

[CurveLight]

From your link

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday acknowledged previously secret CIA prisons around the world and said 14 high-value terrorism suspects — including the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks — have been transferred from the system to Guantanamo Bay for trials.

Okay, so they are captured in another country, put in a prison, until they are transfered to Gitmo for trial. And your point is?

What are they supposed to do with terrorists that they may capture in Afghanistan, lock them in the CIA bathroom, until they get to Gitmo?

Gee. I may have read somewhere the US military has a fairly large presence in both Iraq and afghanistan and this may be purely wild speculation, but isn't it possible there are MP units, jails, and detention centers? Naw. You're right. Kidnapping people from random nations and keeping them in secret prisons is the only way to handle the logistics.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

If iran had secret prisons and publicly acknowledged them you wouldn't be able to hear a thunderstorm from all the foot stomping demanding that iran be bombed and forced to stop it's State sanctioned involuntary relocation plan.

According to your own link they are only put in the prison until they are transfered to Gitmo.

And Al Qaida terrorists are not just prisoners. Information needs to be gotten from them to stop terrorist attacks from happening.

So you approve of secret prisons being run by any nation?