Whom to Spend On: Geniuses or Retards?

[William Joyce]

Across the nation, we spend billions on retards through "special education".

We barely put a dime on the really smart, or "gifted" students.

Is this is a good policy?

Have we got to a point where we fetishize and worship the lesser, while denigrating the better? A dictatorship of the lowest common denominator?

 

[Diuretic]

Across the nation, we spend billions on retards through "special education".

We barely put a dime on the really smart, or "gifted" students.

Is this is a good policy?

Have we got to a point where we fetishize and worship the lesser, while denigrating the better? A dictatorship of the lowest common denominator?

I wasn't going to chime in because you've framed this as a domestic issue in the US.

Then I had a beer and thought, "fuck it".

So here I am.

Is this is a good policy?

It depends on what you're trying to achieve in society. So, how do you see it WJ?
And why?

 

[Amanda]

Across the nation, we spend billions on retards through "special education".

We barely put a dime on the really smart, or "gifted" students.

Is this is a good policy?

Have we got to a point where we fetishize and worship the lesser, while denigrating the better? A dictatorship of the lowest common denominator?

I wasn't going to chime in because you've framed this as a domestic issue in the US.

Then I had a beer and thought, "fuck it".

So here I am.

Is this is a good policy?

It depends on what you're trying to achieve in society. So, how do you see it WJ?
And why?

Was it 1 of those big Foster's beers?

C'mon D, why play coy? You know what WJ's stance is, why not go for it and answer with what you believe in?

As for me, I see where WJ is coming from. I don't want retarded people to have a substandard quality of life, but shouldn't we be spending at least as much on the gifted as the retarded?

I've noticed quite a few retarded people out in the work force lately and it's kinda puzzling to me. In the instances I've observed they don't do as good a job as non-retarded people would have (and in 1 case I sent my food back because I witnessed it being improperly handled) and there are plenty of non-retarded people that could probably really use those jobs.

I'm not saying march them off to the ovens and I don't think WJ is either. I think there's an important point here about getting the best return on our investment.

 

[Diuretic]

I had the one on the left. Gotta pee now, back shortly.

 

[Luissa]

Across the nation, we spend billions on retards through "special education".

We barely put a dime on the really smart, or "gifted" students.

Is this is a good policy?

Have we got to a point where we fetishize and worship the lesser, while denigrating the better? A dictatorship of the lowest common denominator?

I wasn't going to chime in because you've framed this as a domestic issue in the US.

Then I had a beer and thought, "fuck it".

So here I am.

Is this is a good policy?

It depends on what you're trying to achieve in society. So, how do you see it WJ?
And why?

Was it 1 of those big Foster's beers?

C'mon D, why play coy? You know what WJ's stance is, why not go for it and answer with what you believe in?

As for me, I see where WJ is coming from. I don't want retarded people to have a substandard quality of life, but shouldn't we be spending at least as much on the gifted as the retarded?

I've noticed quite a few retarded people out in the work force lately and it's kinda puzzling to me. In the instances I've observed they don't do as good a job as non-retarded people would have (and in 1 case I sent my food back because I witnessed it being improperly handled) and there are plenty of non-retarded people that could probably really use those jobs.

I'm not saying march them off to the ovens and I don't think WJ is either. I think there's an important point here about getting the best return on our investment.

wow! So because non retarded as you like to say people need a job some who is "retarded" shouldn't be able to be a productive member of society?
And I am sure there is a real problem in the US with DD people taking so many jobs from normal functioning adults.
And as for the best return out of an investment, I have a feeling that a parent seeing their DD child working is just as rewarding as seeing their non DD child graduating from a private college. Maybe you shouldn't think so black and white on the subject.

 

[Diuretic]

Sorry that took ten minutes. Now, where was I?

Across the nation, we spend billions on retards through "special education".

We barely put a dime on the really smart, or "gifted" students.

Is this is a good policy?

Have we got to a point where we fetishize and worship the lesser, while denigrating the better? A dictatorship of the lowest common denominator?

Do gifted students who can't afford to go to university gets scholarships? Who pays for them? In the US do you offer higher degrees by research at no cost to the candidate? That would be good if you did. That helps the gifted.

 

[Luissa]

Sorry that took ten minutes. Now, where was I?

Across the nation, we spend billions on retards through "special education".

We barely put a dime on the really smart, or "gifted" students.

Is this is a good policy?

Have we got to a point where we fetishize and worship the lesser, while denigrating the better? A dictatorship of the lowest common denominator?

Do gifted students who can't afford to go to university gets scholarships? Who pays for them? In the US do you offer higher degrees by research at no cost to the candidate? That would be good if you did. That helps the gifted.

that is socialism don't ya know?

 

[Amanda]

I've been enjoying Dragon Joose lately. It's like malt liquor and an energy drink that tastes like grape soda. Mmmmm. I don't know why someone didn't think of this sooner.

 

[Diuretic]

Sorry that took ten minutes. Now, where was I?

Across the nation, we spend billions on retards through "special education".

We barely put a dime on the really smart, or "gifted" students.

Is this is a good policy?

Have we got to a point where we fetishize and worship the lesser, while denigrating the better? A dictatorship of the lowest common denominator?

Do gifted students who can't afford to go to university gets scholarships? Who pays for them? In the US do you offer higher degrees by research at no cost to the candidate? That would be good if you did. That helps the gifted.

that is socialism don't ya know?

Yep! I paid for my Master's by coursework (cost me about $2500 for two years part time) and if my application in to the PhD programme is approved by the university it won't cost me a cent (PhD here is by thesis only) Socialism? Yes please

 

[Amanda]

I wasn't going to chime in because you've framed this as a domestic issue in the US.

Then I had a beer and thought, "fuck it".

So here I am.

Is this is a good policy?

It depends on what you're trying to achieve in society. So, how do you see it WJ?
And why?

Was it 1 of those big Foster's beers?

C'mon D, why play coy? You know what WJ's stance is, why not go for it and answer with what you believe in?

As for me, I see where WJ is coming from. I don't want retarded people to have a substandard quality of life, but shouldn't we be spending at least as much on the gifted as the retarded?

I've noticed quite a few retarded people out in the work force lately and it's kinda puzzling to me. In the instances I've observed they don't do as good a job as non-retarded people would have (and in 1 case I sent my food back because I witnessed it being improperly handled) and there are plenty of non-retarded people that could probably really use those jobs.

I'm not saying march them off to the ovens and I don't think WJ is either. I think there's an important point here about getting the best return on our investment.

wow! So because non retarded as you like to say people need a job some who is "retarded" shouldn't be able to be a productive member of society?

There's that conclusion jumping again. You're really good at that.

And I am sure there is a real problem in the US with DD people taking so many jobs from normal functioning adults.

Again, not what I said. I didn't say it was a "real problem" I gave my observation.

And as for the best return out of an investment, I have a feeling that a parent seeing their DD child working is just as rewarding as seeing their non DD child graduating from a private college.

ROI isn't calculated off how warm and fuzzy something makes you feel... well, not in the real world anyway.

Maybe you shouldn't think so black and white on the subject.

Maybe you shouldn't try to put words in my mouth. Oh wait, if you did that you'd never have a chance to be snarky to me. That the only way you can make a point is to make up some nonsense and call it my position is really telling of how weak your position actually is.

 

[Luissa]

"I've noticed quite a few retarded people out in the work force lately and it's kinda puzzling to me. In the instances I've observed they don't do as good a job as non-retarded people would have (and in 1 case I sent my food back because I witnessed it being improperly handled) and there are plenty of non-retarded people that could probably really use those jobs."
I am pretty sure this you saying that they shouldn't have the job because they do as good as job and that non retarded people should have their jobs. I didn't have to assume anything, you made your point very clear.

 

[Luissa]

Was it 1 of those big Foster's beers?

C'mon D, why play coy? You know what WJ's stance is, why not go for it and answer with what you believe in?

As for me, I see where WJ is coming from. I don't want retarded people to have a substandard quality of life, but shouldn't we be spending at least as much on the gifted as the retarded?

I've noticed quite a few retarded people out in the work force lately and it's kinda puzzling to me. In the instances I've observed they don't do as good a job as non-retarded people would have (and in 1 case I sent my food back because I witnessed it being improperly handled) and there are plenty of non-retarded people that could probably really use those jobs.

I'm not saying march them off to the ovens and I don't think WJ is either. I think there's an important point here about getting the best return on our investment.

wow! So because non retarded as you like to say people need a job some who is "retarded" shouldn't be able to be a productive member of society?

There's that conclusion jumping again. You're really good at that.



Again, not what I said. I didn't say it was a "real problem" I gave my observation.

And as for the best return out of an investment, I have a feeling that a parent seeing their DD child working is just as rewarding as seeing their non DD child graduating from a private college.

ROI isn't calculated off how warm and fuzzy something makes you feel... well, not in the real world anyway.

Maybe you shouldn't think so black and white on the subject.

Maybe you shouldn't try to put words in my mouth. Oh wait, if you did that you'd never have a chance to be snarky to me. That the only way you can make a point is to make up some nonsense and call it my position is really telling of how weak your position actually is.

I actually didn't have to be snarky or make up anything, I just repeated what you said.

 

[Luissa]

ROI isn't calculated off how warm and fuzzy something makes you feel... well, not in the real world anyway.
.

No in the real world people who have children who have developmental problems don't think of their child as an investment, for that matter most parents don't see their child as an investment they expect a return on. And when you have a child who has developmental problems you can talk to me about the real world amanda.

 

[Amanda]

I am pretty sure this is you saying that they shouldn't have the job because they don't do as good as a? job and that non retarded people should have their jobs. I didn't have to assume anything, you made your point very clear.

All kidding aside, I've noticed that you've been having a hard time putting together a grammatically correct sentence tonight (see bolded above), is everything ok?

To your point... I didn't say they shouldn't have jobs. I said I thought non-retarded people would do the same jobs better. I also think that non-retarded people could probably use the jobs more because most probably aren't getting subsidized by the state because they're disabled.

 

[chanel]

I am a special education teacher and believe that all children deserve a good education. But with that said, sped has become a dumping ground for criminals and troublemakers. It is getting increasingly difficult to teach the kids with real learning disabilities in the same room with students diagnosed with "oppositional/defiance disorder". Spending billions on educating the uneducable (not the "retarded as you call them") is indeed a waste of money. But teaching slower children who are desperate to learn and fit in, is worth every dime.

 

[Luissa]

I am pretty sure this is you saying that they shouldn't have the job because they don't do as good as a? job and that non retarded people should have their jobs. I didn't have to assume anything, you made your point very clear.

All kidding aside, I've noticed that you've been having a hard time putting together a grammatically correct sentence tonight (see bolded above), is everything ok?

To your point... I didn't say they shouldn't have jobs. I said I thought non-retarded people would do the same jobs better. I also think that non-retarded people could probably use the jobs more because most probably aren't getting subsidized by the state because they're disabled.

do you really want to talk about sentence structure? And I thought I was the one being snarky?

And that isn't what you said in your orginal post is it?
You said one group of people deserves a job over another group of people because in your mind they deserve it more. In reality a "retarded" person as you like to call them could probably benefit from that job more because what they get to live on is peanuts and they will never have the opportunity to earn the income a non retarded person will have.

 

[Diuretic]

I am a special education teacher and believe that all children deserve a good education. But with that said, sped has become a dumping ground for criminals and troublemakers. It is getting increasingly difficult to teach the kids with real learning disabilities in the same room with students diagnosed with "oppositional/defiance disorder". Spending billions on educating the uneducable (not the "retarded as you call them") is indeed a waste of money. But teaching slower children who are desperate to learn and fit in, is worth every dime.

Good point. When did "learning disorders" get lumped in with "attitude problem"?

But back to the alleged retards. For me education is about helping an individual achieve their potential, at whatever level that might be, but for those who are profoundly challenged it should at least be to bring them up (if possible of course) to to the level of a functioning citizen.

 

[Amanda]

No in the real world people who have children who have developmental problems don't think of their child as an investment, for that matter most parents don't see their child as an investment they expect a return on. And when you have a child who has developmental problems you can talk to me about the real world amanda.

Again, we're not talking about how parents feel about their children, we're talking about public funds being spent. I understand you're argument falls apart if we don't frame the debate in an emotional context, but that's what this is about. And attempting to expand this to include "children who have developmental problems" is also not what this is about. WJ made it very clear, we're discussing people that are retarded. Not a little slow, not with learning disabilities - retarded. Please try to stay on topic.

As for me and the real world... you should probably scroll back to around the time I joined where I talked about my own learning disabilities. I know what it's like to struggle and be called dumb because I couldn't keep up with the other kids.

 

[Luissa]

Again, we're not talking about how parents feel about their children, we're talking about public funds being spent. I understand you're argument falls apart if we don't frame the debate in an emotional context, but that's what this is about. And attempting to expand this to include "children who have developmental problems" is also not what this is about. WJ made it very clear, we're discussing people that are retarded. Not a little slow, not with learning disabilities - retarded. Please try to stay on topic.

As for me and the real world... you should probably scroll back to around the time I joined where I talked about my own learning disabilities. I know what it's like to struggle and be called dumb because I couldn't keep up with the other kids.

by the way miss know it all " retarded" people are also refered to as developmentally disabled. Being retarded means you have developmental problems. You don't know what you are talking about so please don't pretend that you do.
My point is if you can follow was every child deserves the same opportunities and investment no matter their condition.

 

[xotoxi]

Across the nation, we spend billions on retards through "special education".

We barely put a dime on the really smart, or "gifted" students.

Is this is a good policy?

Have we got to a point where we fetishize and worship the lesser, while denigrating the better? A dictatorship of the lowest common denominator?

How much do you think "gifted and talented" programs cost compared to "special education?

I'm thinking FAR less.