Who won Iraq?

[JimH52]

Who Won Iraq? | Perspectives | BillMoyers.com

“The aide said that guys like me were ‘in what we call the reality-based community,’ which he defined as people who ‘believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.’ I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ‘That’s not the way the world really works anymore,’ he continued. ‘We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors… and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.’”

The arrogance and delusion of one Karl Rove.

 

[Indofred]

The crappy end of extremist Islamic farts won.
The devil, if that's your belief, won.
The American arms industry won.
Various oil companies won.
Tony Blair and several other politicians won (or their bank accounts did)

Perhaps you should ask who lost.

All the dead and injured soldiers.
All the dead and injured civilians.
All the civilians that'll be forced to live under extremist Islamic rule.
All the taxpayers (in all the countries that funded that stupidity)

and probably a lot more.

 

[blackhawk]

Right now it seems ISIS has.

 

[KNB]

Here's this from the second link in that article:

In the Oval Office in December 2002, the president met with a few ranking senators and members of the House, both Republicans and Democrats. In those days, there were high hopes that the United States-sponsored ''road map'' for the Israelis and Palestinians would be a pathway to peace, and the discussion that wintry day was, in part, about countries providing peacekeeping forces in the region. The problem, everyone agreed, was that a number of European countries, like France and Germany, had armies that were not trusted by either the Israelis or Palestinians. One congressman -- the Hungarian-born Tom Lantos, a Democrat from California and the only Holocaust survivor in Congress -- mentioned that the Scandinavian countries were viewed more positively. Lantos went on to describe for the president how the Swedish Army might be an ideal candidate to anchor a small peacekeeping force on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Sweden has a well-trained force of about 25,000. The president looked at him appraisingly, several people in the room recall.

''I don't know why you're talking about Sweden,'' Bush said. ''They're the neutral one. They don't have an army.''

Lantos paused, a little shocked, and offered a gentlemanly reply: ''Mr. President, you may have thought that I said Switzerland. They're the ones that are historically neutral, without an army.'' Then Lantos mentioned, in a gracious aside, that the Swiss do have a tough national guard to protect the country in the event of invasion.

Bush held to his view. ''No, no, it's Sweden that has no army.''

The room went silent, until someone changed the subject.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?_r=0

It's safe to say that George W. Bush did not win Iraq.

 

[Missourian]

The military won it, then Obama lost it.

 

[Peach]

Right now it seems ISIS has.

Not yet, Shiite resistance remains strong. The US lost the war, in light of our stated objectives, but there remains a chance to salvage something better than the last 11+ years.

 

[Indofred]

The military won it, then Obama lost it.

If the military won it, how do you explain ISIS?

 

[Lakhota]

The military won it, then Obama lost it.

Not true. Money just bought off the warring factions for a little while. The so-called "surge" was more about money than military might. Obama didn't do anything wrong by protecting the troops and getting them out of that shithole Bush created.

As for who won Iraq - Shiites won it, but can they keep it? I don't think so...

 

[KNB]

The military won it, then Obama lost it.

If the military won it, how do you explain ISIS?

No, he's saying that the US military won and then Obama lost. You have to think like a child to understand Conservatives.

Was there ever any doubt that the world's most advanced war machine would mow over Iraq's "defenses" in just a few weeks? No. There was no doubt that the US military was going to obliterate Iraq in just a few weeks. That was never the issue. The issue was the US invading Iraq over Bush's lies and then occupying hostile foreign territory for an indefinite number of years, fighting a constant, unwinnable Vietnam-style guerrilla war against Iraqi insurgents and the numerous terrorist groups that flooded into Iraq after Saddam Hussein was removed, just as Dick Cheney predicted would happen back in 1994.

Yes, the military "won", but Bush lost. He lied and he lost. Republicans lost Iraq. The Bush administration lied to the entire world and lost Iraq.

George W. Bush and Dick Cheney should die in prison.

 

[Missourian]

The military won it, then Obama lost it.

If the military won it, how do you explain ISIS?

Obama abandoned the field.

Power vacuum.

ISIS are a bunch of blood thirsty strategic retards.

And I'll be happy to tell you why.

Only a bunch of murder happy idiots would execute the Iraqi Security Forces that surrendered or fled.

That was strategic lunacy.

An intelligent command structure would have fed them, attempted to recruit them, and failing that, sent them home, saying ISIS's quarrel was with the government, not the people.

NOW there will be no more surrenders...the ISF will fight to the death...knowing that surrender or capture means the same.

Without the U.S. to back them up, the Iraqi units were demoralized.

ISIS could have been set up to take the entire country, but murderous 4th century stupidity has doomed them.

 

[KNB]

"Obama abandoned the field"......

How long was the game supposed to last? The power vacuum was going to happen whenever the US left, and the US was going to have to leave eventually. Do you know why? Because America isn't in Iraq.

 

[blackhawk]

Right now it seems ISIS has.

Not yet, Shiite resistance remains strong. The US lost the war, in light of our stated objectives, but there remains a chance to salvage something better than the last 11+ years.

The only way I see that happening is if they get substantial help from us which it doesn't seem like they will in which case Maliki would probably turn to Iran for help who would be more than happy to give him anything he ask for. If that happens Iraq likely becomes a clone of Iran not really a positive for the U.S. or the west right now I don't see any good outcome in this.

 

[Indofred]

I'm aware of the extremists and what they stand for - power, as a rule.
This lot are especially nasty, willing to murder unarmed men to achieve their someone dodgy goals.

ISIS are a bunch of blood thirsty strategic retards.

No, not retards, very skilled military commanders; the rest is true.

 

[Peach]

"Obama abandoned the field"......

How long was the game supposed to last? The power vacuum was going to happen whenever the US left, and the US was going to have to leave eventually. Do you know why? Because America isn't in Iraq.

Cheney was the main cheerleader, he knew he would make millions, and did. where else could KBR & Blackwater turn a massive profit?

 

[Missourian]

The military won it, then Obama lost it.

Not true. Money just bought off the warring factions for a little while. The so-called "surge" was more about money than military might. Obama didn't do anything wrong by protecting the troops and getting them out of that shithole Bush created.

As for who won Iraq - Shiites won it, but can they keep it? I don't think so...

Obama himself proclaimed that the surge was more successful than he could have imagined in his wildest dreams...are you calling Obama a liar?

He was wrong about the surge, he was wrong about instituting a timetable for withdrawl, and he was wrong about pulling out the troops.

The proof is in the outcome.

We said a timetable will just allow the opposition to wait for us to leave...and that's exactly what happened.

We said pulling out all the troops will undo the hard fought stability that we've fought 10 years to achieve...and that's exactly what happened.

In fact, Obama has been wrong about everything...Iran, Russia, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Benghazi...

What has he been right about?

He gave the order to kill Bin Laden.

Obama's one claim to glory, he did what anyone in their right mind would do.

Yeah Obama.

 

[AquaAthena]

Obama's one claim to glory, he did what anyone in their right mind would do.

Bull! He did what the PC thing was to do. His mind is not right, it is left.

 

[Lakhota]

The military won it, then Obama lost it.

Not true. Money just bought off the warring factions for a little while. The so-called "surge" was more about money than military might. Obama didn't do anything wrong by protecting the troops and getting them out of that shithole Bush created.

As for who won Iraq - Shiites won it, but can they keep it? I don't think so...

Obama himself proclaimed that the surge was more successful than he could have imagined in his wildest dreams...are you calling Obama a liar?

He was wrong about the surge, he was wrong about instituting a timetable for withdrawl, and he was wrong about pulling out the troops.

The proof is in the outcome.

We said a timetable will just allow the opposition to wait for us to leave...and that's exactly what happened.

We said pulling out all the troops will undo the hard fought stability that we've fought 10 years to achieve...and that's exactly what happened.

In fact, Obama has been wrong about everything...Iran, Russia, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Benghazi...

What has he been right about?

He gave the order to kill Bin Laden.

Obama's one claim to glory, he did what anyone in their right mind would do.

Yeah Obama.

Well, that crock of twisted logic just killed your entire credibility. Bye...

 

[Missourian]

"Obama abandoned the field"......

How long was the game supposed to last? The power vacuum was going to happen whenever the US left, and the US was going to have to leave eventually. Do you know why? Because America isn't in Iraq.

A shorter time than Japan, Korea, Germany, Italy, the Philippines, Cuba...

You know, all those other wars.