Who They Were/IDC

[Kanadesaga]

DoD Identifies Marine Casualty

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

Sgt. Jerome C. Bell Jr., 29, of Auburn, N.Y., died Sept. 19 while supporting combat operations in Farah province, Afghanistan. He was assigned to 2nd Battalion, 7th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force, Twentynine Palms, Calif.

 

[Kanadesaga]

DoD Identifies Army Casualties

The Department of Defense announced today the death of two soldiers who were supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. They died Sept. 20 in the Korengal Valley, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when their vehicle encountered an improvised explosive device. They were assigned to the 1st Battalion, 26th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas.

Killed were:

Staff Sgt. Nathan M. Cox, 32, of Walcott, Iowa

Pvt. Joseph F. Gonzales, 18, of Tucson, Ariz.

 

[Kanadesaga]

DoD Identifies Navy Casualty

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a sailor who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

Cryptologic Technician Third Class Petty Officer Matthew J. O’Bryant, 22, of Duluth, Ga., died September 20 in the bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, Pakistan. O'Bryant was assigned to the Navy Information Operations Command Maryland, Fort Meade, Md.

 

[Kanadesaga]

DoD Identifies Army Casualty

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Staff Sgt. Matthew J. Taylor, 25, of Charleston, S.C., died Sept. 21 in Baghdad, Iraq, of wounds suffered when he received small arms fire during dismounted operations. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 30th Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry), located at Fort Polk, La.

 

[Kanadesaga]

DoD Identifies Army Casualty

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

Capt. Bruno G. Desolenni, 32, of Crescent City, Calif., died Sept. 20 in Kandahar, Afghanistan, of wounds sustained when an improvised explosive device detonated near his vehicle. He was assigned to the Joint Forces Headquarters, Element Training Team, Oregon Army National Guard.

 

[Kanadesaga]

DoD Identifies Army Casualty

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Chaplain (Col.) Sidney J. Marceaux Jr., 69, of Beaumont, Texas, died Sept 14 at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Washington, D.C., from a non-combat related illness. Following evacuation from Camp Arifjan, Kuwait, he was assigned to the Warrior Transition Brigade, Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

 

[Kanadesaga]

FWIIW, I don't have any beef with publishing the names of the dead. Assuming you are respectful of them even though you oppose the war, then all is well.

I will note this. Considering the time involved, and the operational tempo, our military casualties are light compared to previous wars. That doesn't mean that any death is being cheapened. Instead it means that we are actually doing well all things considered.

Because people died in massive numbers of TB in the past is no reason to accept a minimum number of deaths now of TB.

And we are not doing well. USL is still on the loose, thank you retard from Texas for letting him get away. the Taliban is stronger than ever. Pakistan is firing on American soldiers. Iran is still on the horizon. Considering how well we could have done after 9/11, it is a disaster of historic and almost biblical proportions.

 

[pegwinn]

Because people died in massive numbers of TB in the past is no reason to accept a minimum number of deaths now of TB.

Apples and Oranges. But you knew that...

Because people died in massive numbers of TB in the past is no reason to accept a minimum number of deaths now of TB.

And we are not doing well. USL is still on the loose, thank you retard from Texas for letting him get away. the Taliban is stronger than ever. Pakistan is firing on American soldiers. Iran is still on the horizon. Considering how well we could have done after 9/11, it is a disaster of historic and almost biblical proportions.

I think I see where you disconnected from what I meant. What I wrote was:

Instead it means that we are actually doing well all things considered.

What I should have written was "our military is" rather than "that we are". I make no excuse for fuck ups on the part of our oh so honorable government which sets the strategic goals and in some cases the operational ones as well.

However, our military is doing a superlative job considering the restraints placed upon them by our friends and neighbors who exercise civilian control over their betters.

Sorry about that.

 

[Kanadesaga]

Apples and Oranges. But you knew that...

the analogy is accurate. a low american body count is only indicative of a low body count. Nothing else.

I think I see where you disconnected from what I meant. What I wrote was:



What I should have written was "our military is" rather than "that we are". I make no excuse for fuck ups on the part of our oh so honorable government which sets the strategic goals and in some cases the operational ones as well.

However, our military is doing a superlative job considering the restraints placed upon them by our friends and neighbors who exercise civilian control over their betters.

Sorry about that.

The greatest constraint was having a retard as CnC. How any military man can defend this loser of a human being is beyond me. You realize because of his lack of forsight and concern, thousands of american soldiers are dead. Every IED death is laid directly on the head of bush/cheney/rummy. They choose recklessness and imprudenceinstead of careful planning and proper equipment for the job at hand. but hey haliburton got their $10 for a bottle of water and a dry turkey sandwich/ per soldier on the push to Baghdad. so it's all good, yes?

 

[Kanadesaga]

DoD Identifies Army Casualty

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Spc. Christopher T. Fox, 21, of Memphis, Tenn., died Sept. 29 in Adhamiyah, Iraq, of wounds suffered when he encountered small arms fire while on patrol. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 68th Armor Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division, Fort Carson, Colo.

 

[Kanadesaga]

DoD Identifies Army Casualities

The Department of Defense announced today the death of three soldiers who were supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. They died Sept. 29 in Yakhchal, Afghanistan, from wounds suffered when their vehicle encountered an improvised explosive device during mounted operations. They were assigned to the 1st Battalion, 7th Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C.

Killed were:

Capt. Richard G. Cliff Jr., 29, of Mount Pleasant, S.C.

Sgt. 1st Class Jamie S. Nicholas, 32, of Maysel, W.Va.

Sgt. 1st Class Gary J. Vasquez, 33, of Round Lake, Ill.

 

[pegwinn]

the analogy is accurate. a low american body count is only indicative of a low body count. Nothing else. Nice try. But that isn't true and I suspect you know that. Considering the mission a low body count indicates success and competence..

The greatest constraint was having a retard as CnC. How any military man can defend this loser of a human being is beyond me. I am not defending him. You realize because of his lack of forsight and concern, thousands of american soldiers are dead. So which is it? Was Iraq a preplanned war and 911 a convienient event or did 911 lead to Iraq and was a lack of foresight. It can't be both ways. Every IED death is laid directly on the head of bush/cheney/rummy. They choose recklessness and imprudenceinstead of careful planning and proper equipment for the job at hand. What proper equipment would that be? but hey haliburton got their $10 for a bottle of water and a dry turkey sandwich/ per soldier on the push to Baghdad. so it's all good, yes? Not really, I don't approve of allowing amatuer civilians in a combat zone be they contractors, clergy, journalists or politicians. They get in the way and if they get hurt someone will blame my guys.

*

 

[Kanadesaga]

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga
the analogy is accurate. a low american body count is only indicative of a low body count. Nothing else.

Nice try. But that isn't true and I suspect you know that. Considering the mission a low body count indicates success and competence..

Or nonengagement of the enemy. It is a fact that the "surge" as proscribed, has not worked. What has worked, is what we should have been doing since BEFORE 9/11. That is; assassinating, preferably on foreign soil, terrorists and those close to them. So that everytime Usama lay his head down to sleep that last thought would be 'will I wake up dead'. It through a combination of bribery and "exploding gift baskets" that has led to the decrease in reported violence.

the execution of this war has been scandalous!

and you will notice that the body count in Afghanistan is steadily rising.

The greatest constraint was having a retard as CnC. How any military man can defend this loser of a human being is beyond me.

I am not defending him.

Smart man.

You realize because of his lack of forsight and concern, thousands of american soldiers are dead.

So which is it? Was Iraq a preplanned war and 911 a convienient event or did 911 lead to Iraq and was a lack of foresight. It can't be both ways.

Why limit your thinking to only two ways? Iraq was planned by this adminstration as far as getting to Baghdad was concerned, after that and protecting the Oil Ministry, nothing else was thought out. That was my point! Your either/or straw argument isn't valid. for example. The war was pre-planned and had been by DoD strategists probably since 1991, if not before. As far as 9/11 being convienent, all I will say on the matter is that it certainly filled the PNAC requirements, didn't it? So yes, 9/11 led to Iraq, foolishly and most likely criminally as well. Not that any one will ever pay for the treasons committed against the Constitution. But as you see, it can be both and more.

Every IED death is laid directly on the head of bush/cheney/rummy. They choose recklessness and imprudenceinstead of careful planning and proper equipment for the job at hand.

What proper equipment would that be?

Certainly sir, you feign ignorance on this point? and to do so is an insult to my intelligence and I think yours.

but hey haliburton got their $10 for a bottle of water and a dry turkey sandwich/ per soldier on the push to Baghdad. so it's all good, yes?

Not really, I don't approve of allowing amatuer civilians in a combat zone be they contractors, clergy, journalists or politicians. They get in the way and if they get hurt someone will blame my guys.*

I will agree on the contractors. Especially mercs, they have no business in a war zone. Let them go try to conquer african nations or whatever. I will stand for the Fourth Estate, perhaps if a journalist had been present, Haditha may never have happened. Of course, if the journalists had done their job to begin with, we wouldn't be in Iraq because everyone would have known what BS it all was. but that is another discussion.

 

[pegwinn]

I will agree on the contractors. Especially mercs, they have no business in a war zone. Let them go try to conquer african nations or whatever. I will stand for the Fourth Estate, perhaps if a journalist had been present, Haditha may never have happened. Of course, if the journalists had done their job to begin with, we wouldn't be in Iraq because everyone would have known what BS it all was. but that is another discussion.

Again, what equipment? Go ahead and pretend I am stupid and lay it out for me.

Haditha? Perhaps you haven't noticed the Courts Martial results? I stand by the original statement vis a vis civilian amateurs in a combat zone. Had Geraldo been in my unit he would have been beaten severely before being kicked out of the area.

And, you may wish to do some research on the operational evolution of maneuver v. attrition based warfare especially as it relates to the non engagement you mentioned. FWIIW I concur that covert ops should have been occurring all along.

 

[Kanadesaga]

Again, what equipment? Go ahead and pretend I am stupid and lay it out for me.

Please.

Haditha? Perhaps you haven't noticed the Courts Martial results? I stand by the original statement vis a vis civilian amateurs in a combat zone. Had Geraldo been in my unit he would have been beaten severely before being kicked out of the area.

You think military courts get it right any better than civilian ones? You think this wasn't a predetermined decision? Again, please. That is quite the way to uphold and defend the Constitution, buy physically assualting a member of the fourth estate. How mature.

And, you may wish to do some research on the operational evolution of maneuver v. attrition based warfare especially as it relates to the non engagement you mentioned.

Yea, I'll get right on that.

FWIIW I concur that covert ops should have been occurring all along.

Except there no profit in doing the job correctly. And therein lies the rub. For it was never about getting the job done, it was about profit.

 

[pegwinn]

Please.

Please nothing. You are the one talking about not having the right equipment. In my case I have close, personal experience with the equipment in use prior to my retirement in 2003. Thus I am qualified to either concur or rebut your opinion. But if you are unwilling to discuss it, so be it. Just doesn't make you look credible.

You think military courts get it right any better than civilian ones? You think this wasn't a predetermined decision? Again, please. That is quite the way to uphold and defend the Constitution, buy physically assualting a member of the fourth estate. How mature.

I trust a military court martial far more than a civilian criminal court. Now, on the Geraldos of your esteemed 4th Estate. They, and you apparently, have a might high opinion of themselves that doesn't stand up to critical scrutiny. Geraldo was literally disclosing his units position on the air. The beating isn't immature, it's to demonstrate that If you deliberately place my Marines at risk you will get beaten down. Stupidity has consequences in the field. Remember, the press is no more exalted than a ditch digger or a steelworker. They live by the motto "if it bleeds, it leads". In fact, they and the politicians are held to a far lower standard than the military that serves them.

Yea, I'll get right on that.

Again, you brought up non-engagement. I was once very well versed in operational and tactical issues. You have an opportunity to actually learn something. I'm not bothering to try and change your opinion. But, you might as well seek a form of credibility by being reasonably conversant in the "whys' of this or that.

Except there no profit in doing the job correctly. And therein lies the rub. For it was never about getting the job done, it was about profit.

Another assertion without sources. You are very good at talking points. Here is your opportunity to talk about those points. Whatever will you do now?

 

[Kanadesaga]

Please nothing. You are the one talking about not having the right equipment. In my case I have close, personal experience with the equipment in use prior to my retirement in 2003. Thus I am qualified to either concur or rebut your opinion. But if you are unwilling to discuss it, so be it. Just doesn't make you look credible.

You were Marine? Your unit may have had all the equipment it needed. Other's obviously did not. From proper body armor, to properly armored vehicles. It was in all the papers, surprised you hadn't heard.

I trust a military court martial far more than a civilian criminal court. Now, on the Geraldos of your esteemed 4th Estate. They, and you apparently, have a might high opinion of themselves that doesn't stand up to critical scrutiny. Geraldo was literally disclosing his units position on the air. The beating isn't immature, it's to demonstrate that If you deliberately place my Marines at risk you will get beaten down. Stupidity has consequences in the field. Remember, the press is no more exalted than a ditch digger or a steelworker. They live by the motto "if it bleeds, it leads". In fact, they and the politicians are held to a far lower standard than the military that serves them.

I see by the phrase I've highlighted that you have a low opinoin of the press. Since you label all by their lowest common denominator. Were I to do that, of say, military personnel, I'm sure many a sunshine patriot would get their panties in a bunch. Calling me unpatriotic because I point out that some in the military are homicidal maniacs. I do not label all in the military that way. Just those that are homicidal maniacs.

Again, you brought up non-engagement.

As an alternative explanation of a recent low american body count. You asserted that something else was the defintive reason.

I was once very well versed in operational and tactical issues.

Forgotten so much? So soon?

You have an opportunity to actually learn something. I'm not bothering to try and change your opinion. But, you might as well seek a form of credibility by being reasonably conversant in the "whys' of this or that.

I learn new things all the time, everyday in fact. Military tactics is not a current requirement of my education at this point, thank you.

Another assertion without sources. You are very good at talking points. Here is your opportunity to talk about those points. Whatever will you do now?

You want I should post a link with every statement I make? Shall you do likewise? I am well versed in current topics. The information I disseminate is widely and readily available. If you have chosen not to partake in the information superhighway at your disposal, I am not responsible for that deficit on your part. Nor is it my responsibility to educate you. You doubt my veracity, you go find sources to dispute me. Otherwise accept the truth of what I say.


Whatever shall you do now?

 

[pegwinn]

You were Marine? Your unit may have had all the equipment it needed. Other's obviously did not. From proper body armor, to properly armored vehicles. It was in all the papers, surprised you hadn't heard.

Heh, in all the papers, lol. That my friend is what you get for reading the papers. Had you done some simple investigation into military procurement you would have seen that the body armor was new and being fielded to the units that needed it the most. My unit had it. Other units were getting it. Thanks to public pressure, troops are getting over-armored. Over armor is no more effective than not armored. As to the HMMWV and various trucks..... those are logistics vehicles, contracted and produced long before the war. Logistics vehicles are intended to move logistal supplies. Ambush is an assumed risk.

I see by the phrase I've highlighted that you have a low opinoin of the press. Since you label all by their lowest common denominator. Were I to do that, of say, military personnel, I'm sure many a sunshine patriot would get their panties in a bunch. Calling me unpatriotic because I point out that some in the military are homicidal maniacs. I do not label all in the military that way. Just those that are homicidal maniacs.

It won't work. There are set standards that the military must adhere to... or else. There are no standards for journalists. If they actually made a genuine effort to fairly and accurately report the facts, minus thier own bias, I might have a bit more respect.

As an alternative explanation of a recent low american body count. You asserted that something else was the defintive reason.

And invited you to discuss it. You've declined. So noted.

Forgotten so much? So soon?

Nah. Things change. The concepts are still there. The techniques (a series of indiviual steps designed to accomplish a tactical fundamental) change to evolve to the current operation. That is what I am no longer an expert on. But again, I see that you are attempting to disengage. So be it.

I learn new things all the time, everyday in fact. Military tactics is not a current requirement of my education at this point, thank you.

Noted. Why would you wish to learn of things that may impact your decision makeing or opinion forming process? Me, I like to challenge my own perceptions. That's only one reason I try to engage others in conversations such as this.

You want I should post a link with every statement I make? Shall you do likewise? I am well versed in current topics. The information I disseminate is widely and readily available. If you have chosen not to partake in the information superhighway at your disposal, I am not responsible for that deficit on your part. Nor is it my responsibility to educate you. You doubt my veracity, you go find sources to dispute me. Otherwise accept the truth of what I say.

You've yet to ask. You simply offer an assertion that you cannot prove and in order to dispute it you ask me to prove a negative. This tells me that you are not interested in any discussion that might challenge your position. Noted.

Whatever shall you do now?

I shall respect your obvious wish to disengage. Perhaps on other topics we will do a better job. Ciao.

 

[Gunny]

I'm sort of waiting for someone to come in and post something along the lines of:

"Yeah, so? People die in wars. It's a war. Who gives a shit?"

I've seen such sentiments posted in the thread where people are debating the number of civilian casualties.

I guess I have to presume they'll feel the same way about the above deaths, as well.

Instead you have me coming in and closing the thread. I've seen wingnuts play this game on other boards. They can continue to do so. Not here.