Who Is The GOAT?

[sealybobo]

Another 17 year old could come along like lebron did but after 4 years he could completely dominate and change my mind. Lebron as great as he has been has not done this. He can break scoring records thats not the same. And it’s not just that mj played on better teams. We saw lebron not carry teams when Michael would have and we even saw lebron get cramps from being dehyd

Just the opposite. Lebron took weaker teams further. MJ is more skilled. Anyone can learn his footwork. You cant teach what Lebron is good at. His ability to get to rim and passing is more a product of his freakish athleticism than skill. No way MJ would have been able to drag that first Cavs team to the Finals.

Jordan made his teammates better. In practice and on the court. So I'm sorry Lebron's teammates let him down. Maybe he should have been harder on them in practice like MJ did to his teammates.

 

[sealybobo]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

Jordan left after three straight rings. The next two seasons Houston wins (Jordan lost in the playoffs that one year, but he had returned mid-season). He comes back and in the next three full seasons he plays the Bulls win three straight rings. That's incredible.

Cavs went 1-3 against G.S, can anyone imagine Jordan losing 3 of 4 finals?

My point was that when MJ left, the Bulls didnt fall off a cliff. I can easily imagine MJ getting swept if he had played the Dubs without Pippen. Bulls would have gotten smoked.

I doubt that. The warriors had no rodman or ron harper. I think people forget how good Ron Harper was. In his first run, without Pippen, Horace Grant cancels out Draymond Green and Jordan could shut down either Curry or Thompson before they got Durant. With Pippen, Durant is cut off and Jordan Jordan takes Curry. Harper d's up Thompson and Rodman eats Draymond Green alive. The bulls would probably win that series in 5 playing by the old rules and if you use todays no touch rules, Jordan averages 60.

And that's not slighting the Warriors, I just think the bulls were that good.

MJ had trouble guarding Reggie Miller and Allen Iverson. No way he is going to keep up with Curry who is like a combination of the two. MJ would be drained running through all those picks. I'm not forgetting about Harper. I just dont see him being effective against that offense. Curry is an anomaly. He sucks the defense in like no other player I have ever seen. Klay and Draymond would offset Harper and Rodman. Not only would they get the defense but Klay would outscore all 3 of them.

Any effective 3 point shooter is near impossible to defend, especially with Curry who has re-written the rules by wisely figuring out how to protect the line defense by shooting 2-3 feet behind on a regular basis.

You basically have to pressure Curry at mid-court and force him into steals and poor passing. Maybe a Payton or Stockton could limit him with pressure, but only minimally. That's just the nature of a sport in which a guy can fire the ball from anywhere. Unless you can find a 7 footer with footspeed like a 6 footer, you're going to have problems dealing with such a lethal, unorthodox shooter.

Most 3 pt shooters when I was growing up were one trick ponys. The thing with Curry is that not only is he the most prolific 3 point shooter in NBA history, the dude has handles, can get to the rim with either hand, and runs all game long. You cant guard someone like that by yourself so your team has to commit to help which in turns makes you think instead of reacting naturally.

Iverson and Miller got much help with screens. So does Curry. So if Jordan was screened off, Pippen or Harper would switch to Curry and that would be a problem. Curry is great but not like those guys. He's the best shooter perhaps ever, but Jordan, Pippen and Harper were 6'6 and 6'7 and with a 6 ft guard quickness. They had handles and were in just as good as shape as Curry. Green is a milder version of Rodman, and Thompson while an excellent player is no Pippen.

Using todays rules where you can't really touch players, the warriors could not stop either Jordan or Pippen from going to the hole. And Curry would not just get to shoot three pointers all day. Those Bulls were just as effective picking up players both full court and half court. There is a reason why they had 2 of the 3 best season records of all time and dominated in the playoffs.

That would be an interesting series to see.

You do make one good point. MJ and Pippen would be better defenders than PG and Kawhi.

These topics make for great debates. I think we forget about the Lakers of the 80's In these discussions as well.

Oh yeah. The Lakers were a thing of beauty. Textbook fastbreak action led by yours truly Magic. He is actually the reason I started playing basketball and left football and baseball alone.

Saturday at 2pm on ABC they are doing a piece on the Repeat Piston Badboys. I never thought we'd beat the Lakers. I believe Magic was hurt the year we beat them.

 

[sealybobo]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

Jordan left after three straight rings. The next two seasons Houston wins (Jordan lost in the playoffs that one year, but he had returned mid-season). He comes back and in the next three full seasons he plays the Bulls win three straight rings. That's incredible.

Cavs went 1-3 against G.S, can anyone imagine Jordan losing 3 of 4 finals?

My point was that when MJ left, the Bulls didnt fall off a cliff. I can easily imagine MJ getting swept if he had played the Dubs without Pippen. Bulls would have gotten smoked.

I doubt that. The warriors had no rodman or ron harper. I think people forget how good Ron Harper was. In his first run, without Pippen, Horace Grant cancels out Draymond Green and Jordan could shut down either Curry or Thompson before they got Durant. With Pippen, Durant is cut off and Jordan Jordan takes Curry. Harper d's up Thompson and Rodman eats Draymond Green alive. The bulls would probably win that series in 5 playing by the old rules and if you use todays no touch rules, Jordan averages 60.

And that's not slighting the Warriors, I just think the bulls were that good.

MJ had trouble guarding Reggie Miller and Allen Iverson. No way he is going to keep up with Curry who is like a combination of the two. MJ would be drained running through all those picks. I'm not forgetting about Harper. I just dont see him being effective against that offense. Curry is an anomaly. He sucks the defense in like no other player I have ever seen. Klay and Draymond would offset Harper and Rodman. Not only would they get the defense but Klay would outscore all 3 of them.

Any effective 3 point shooter is near impossible to defend, especially with Curry who has re-written the rules by wisely figuring out how to protect the line defense by shooting 2-3 feet behind on a regular basis.

You basically have to pressure Curry at mid-court and force him into steals and poor passing. Maybe a Payton or Stockton could limit him with pressure, but only minimally. That's just the nature of a sport in which a guy can fire the ball from anywhere. Unless you can find a 7 footer with footspeed like a 6 footer, you're going to have problems dealing with such a lethal, unorthodox shooter.

Most 3 pt shooters when I was growing up were one trick ponys. The thing with Curry is that not only is he the most prolific 3 point shooter in NBA history, the dude has handles, can get to the rim with either hand, and runs all game long. You cant guard someone like that by yourself so your team has to commit to help which in turns makes you think instead of reacting naturally.

Iverson and Miller got much help with screens. So does Curry. So if Jordan was screened off, Pippen or Harper would switch to Curry and that would be a problem. Curry is great but not like those guys. He's the best shooter perhaps ever, but Jordan, Pippen and Harper were 6'6 and 6'7 and with a 6 ft guard quickness. They had handles and were in just as good as shape as Curry. Green is a milder version of Rodman, and Thompson while an excellent player is no Pippen.

Using todays rules where you can't really touch players, the warriors could not stop either Jordan or Pippen from going to the hole. And Curry would not just get to shoot three pointers all day. Those Bulls were just as effective picking up players both full court and half court. There is a reason why they had 2 of the 3 best season records of all time and dominated in the playoffs.

That would be an interesting series to see.

You do make one good point. MJ and Pippen would be better defenders than PG and Kawhi.

These topics make for great debates. I think we forget about the Lakers of the 80's In these discussions as well.

Oh yeah. The Lakers were a thing of beauty. Textbook fastbreak action led by yours truly Magic. He is actually the reason I started playing basketball and left football and baseball alone.

I was probably a better baseball player but our school didn't have a baseball team. My favorite football player was Jack Tatum and thanks to Jimmy Carr and Lee Kemp, I started wrestling.
View attachment 336275 View attachment 336277

You wrestled? Me too. My brother and I decided to stop playing team sports. I used to play basketball, football and baseball. I actually made the team for all 3 sports my freshman year but I was too short for basketball, too short to be a linebacker which was the only position I wanted to play, and baseball the coaches picked their favorites to play. Didn't matter I went 3 for 4 the last game. Didn't matter that my brother pitched a 1 hitter. We still didn't start.

So in 10th grade a guy said, "hey sealybobo, why don't you try out for wrestling. You're built perfect for it". So I tried it and I fell in love. Got my varsity jacket my first year, all league 11th grade and all state my senior year. Wrestling is how I got into college.

 

[Likkmee]

Bruce Lee.

 

[TNHarley]

Basketball is for queers

Walk up to Shaq and tell him that.

Why not?
Done beat his ass once

Sure you have.

Of course I haven't, idiot.

 

[22lcidw]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Not too many people have 6 championships. Lebron has lost more finals than he has won. I have more respect for Lebron for his standing up to racism than Jordan, although I think Jordan probably feels the same way Lebron does about it.

Basketball is a sport that only so many can play and get paid for. Playing for relxation and/or to get frustration of what life throws at you is different. Going to school and learning is more important then a rich sports players giving social commentary. For 99.9% of the people who watch LeBron spew will get diddly squat without applying themselves in some way of learning some form of education to get a good job.