Who Is The GOAT?

[Rambunctious]

Who Is The GOAT?

 

[bluzman61]

Who Is The GOAT?


View attachment 335781

I really like Brady and I wish him well with the Bucs. But if there is NO season this year, do you think he'll want to come back in 2021? I'm hoping that there IS a season this year, and I have a feeling there will be.

 

[Rambunctious]

Who Is The GOAT?


View attachment 335781

I really like Brady and I wish him well with the Bucs. But if there is NO season this year, do you think he'll want to come back in 2021? I'm hoping that there IS a season this year, and I have a feeling there will be.

This deal in Tampa is a one and out due to his age in my opinion....I can't see him going for more....I just think he wants one last chance to show what he can do....I'm not sure how long he signed up for because I don't follow the NFL like I use to...but we will see...he still can play....

 

[Asclepias]

Basketball is for queers

You must have got cut from JV. Sour grapes.

 

[Asclepias]

Watching the Last Dance had me reminiscing and reliving my younger days. It also reminded me how no matter how much I like Lebron he just cant surpass MJ for the title of the GOAT in basketball. MJ was just on another level that no one will probably ever reach. I mean this dude won 3 straight, came back and won 3 more straight. Granted he didnt do it by himself. But he did do it with flair and an artistry that is unmatched. MJ may not be my favorite person but he definitely is the GOAT.

Lebron is not even close. Mike is the GOAT. The numbers tell the story.

Michael Jordan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

LeBron James - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lebron wont be able to duplicate or surpass what MJ did even though he's already passed him in a lot of categories. When you weigh all the factors it makes you wonder what if? What if he had a great coach? What if he had another superstar of Pippens caliber? What if the league wasnt as soft as it is now? I think what it is for me is that MJ's skill level is unmatched and the smoothness with which he played. Lebron on the other hand doesnt have the footwork down because he never had to develop it. He will just go through you.

 

[Asclepias]

Watching the Last Dance had me reminiscing and reliving my younger days. It also reminded me how no matter how much I like Lebron he just cant surpass MJ for the title of the GOAT in basketball. MJ was just on another level that no one will probably ever reach. I mean this dude won 3 straight, came back and won 3 more straight. Granted he didnt do it by himself. But he did do it with flair and an artistry that is unmatched. MJ may not be my favorite person but he definitely is the GOAT.

Watching the documentary has confirmed Jordan is the goat. Lebron will have all the records when he’s done but he just doesn’t have the storybook history or career Jordan had.

Jordan beat them all. Barkley, Shaquille, Ewing, the nets, Carl malone, Reggie Miller, Magic, Bird, pistons, Gary Payton and the supersonics. The glove. Lol. Jordan laughed at what he had to say.

jordan owned them all. No memory of him losing. Lots of memories of lebron folding or getting cramps. Lol.

Out of all those guys MJ never beat Bird. MJ went through Detroit and that was only after they got Pip.

That was the best thing MJ could have done was to laugh at Gary. Gary never shuts up talking on the court. It would drive you insane if you let it.

 

[Asclepias]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

 

[shockedcanadian]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

Jordan left after three straight rings. The next two seasons Houston wins (Jordan lost in the playoffs that one year, but he had returned mid-season). He comes back and in the next three full seasons he plays the Bulls win three straight rings. That's incredible.

Cavs went 1-3 against G.S, can anyone imagine Jordan losing 3 of 4 finals?

 

[Asclepias]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

Jordan left after three straight rings. The next two seasons Houston wins (Jordan lost in the playoffs that one year, but he had returned mid-season). He comes back and in the next three full seasons he plays the Bulls win three straight rings. That's incredible.

Cavs went 1-3 against G.S, can anyone imagine Jordan losing 3 of 4 finals?

My point was that when MJ left, the Bulls didnt fall off a cliff. I can easily imagine MJ getting swept if he had played the Dubs without Pippen. Bulls would have gotten smoked.

 

[IM2]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Not too many people have 6 championships. Lebron has lost more finals than he has won. I have more respect for Lebron for his standing up to racism than Jordan, although I think Jordan probably feels the same way Lebron does about it.

 

[IM2]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

Jordan left after three straight rings. The next two seasons Houston wins (Jordan lost in the playoffs that one year, but he had returned mid-season). He comes back and in the next three full seasons he plays the Bulls win three straight rings. That's incredible.

Cavs went 1-3 against G.S, can anyone imagine Jordan losing 3 of 4 finals?

No. He would not stand for it.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

Jordan left after three straight rings. The next two seasons Houston wins (Jordan lost in the playoffs that one year, but he had returned mid-season). He comes back and in the next three full seasons he plays the Bulls win three straight rings. That's incredible.

Cavs went 1-3 against G.S, can anyone imagine Jordan losing 3 of 4 finals?

No. He would not stand for it.

Well said actually. Really encapsulates who Jordan was. All the true greats have it.

 

[IM2]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

Jordan left after three straight rings. The next two seasons Houston wins (Jordan lost in the playoffs that one year, but he had returned mid-season). He comes back and in the next three full seasons he plays the Bulls win three straight rings. That's incredible.

Cavs went 1-3 against G.S, can anyone imagine Jordan losing 3 of 4 finals?

My point was that when MJ left, the Bulls didnt fall off a cliff. I can easily imagine MJ getting swept if he had played the Dubs without Pippen. Bulls would have gotten smoked.

I doubt that. The warriors had no rodman or ron harper. I think people forget how good Ron Harper was. In his first run, without Pippen, Horace Grant cancels out Draymond Green and Jordan could shut down either Curry or Thompson before they got Durant. With Pippen, Durant is cut off and Jordan Jordan takes Curry. Harper d's up Thompson and Rodman eats Draymond Green alive. The bulls would probably win that series in 5 playing by the old rules and if you use todays no touch rules, Jordan averages 60.

And that's not slighting the Warriors, I just think the bulls were that good.

 

[martybegan]

In Hockey most people go with Gretzky, with guys like Lemieux, Orr, Howe and Richard being considered the runners up.

Baseball is probably the hardest one to figure out.

 

[IM2]

Shaq Wilt Kareem Hakeem Bill Russell Duncan.

I remember Hakeem at UofH aka Phi Slama Jama with Clyde the Glide, Bomber of Bernice, Cadillac Anderson, and The Silent Assassin.


I am more of a college guy.

.

Phi Slamma Jamma were some bad men but I'm still mad at Houston for losing to NC State.

 

[Dragonlady]

Watching the Last Dance had me reminiscing and reliving my younger days. It also reminded me how no matter how much I like Lebron he just cant surpass MJ for the title of the GOAT in basketball. MJ was just on another level that no one will probably ever reach. I mean this dude won 3 straight, came back and won 3 more straight. Granted he didnt do it by himself. But he did do it with flair and an artistry that is unmatched. MJ may not be my favorite person but he definitely is the GOAT.

Lebron is not even close. Mike is the GOAT. The numbers tell the story.

Michael Jordan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

LeBron James - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How can you compare the numbers at this point? MJ's career is over and his numbers are set. LeBron is still playing, and his numbers are growing. There are a LOT of really high level players now. I don't recall this many great players when MJ was playing.

I wouldn't be jumping to make a judgement at this point, while LeBron is still playing. I'm not saying MJ isn't the better player, just that we have his whole career to judge him on.

 

[Asclepias]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

Jordan left after three straight rings. The next two seasons Houston wins (Jordan lost in the playoffs that one year, but he had returned mid-season). He comes back and in the next three full seasons he plays the Bulls win three straight rings. That's incredible.

Cavs went 1-3 against G.S, can anyone imagine Jordan losing 3 of 4 finals?

My point was that when MJ left, the Bulls didnt fall off a cliff. I can easily imagine MJ getting swept if he had played the Dubs without Pippen. Bulls would have gotten smoked.

I doubt that. The warriors had no rodman or ron harper. I think people forget how good Ron Harper was. In his first run, without Pippen, Horace Grant cancels out Draymond Green and Jordan could shut down either Curry or Thompson before they got Durant. With Pippen, Durant is cut off and Jordan Jordan takes Curry. Harper d's up Thompson and Rodman eats Draymond Green alive. The bulls would probably win that series in 5 playing by the old rules and if you use todays no touch rules, Jordan averages 60.

And that's not slighting the Warriors, I just think the bulls were that good.

MJ had trouble guarding Reggie Miller and Allen Iverson. No way he is going to keep up with Curry who is like a combination of the two. MJ would be drained running through all those picks which would tire him out. More likely they would have to put Harper on Curry and let MJ guard Klay. I'm not forgetting about Harper. I just dont see him being effective against that offense. Curry is an anomaly. He sucks the defense in like no other player I have ever seen. Klay and Draymond would offset Harper and Rodman. Not only would they get the defense but Klay would outscore all 3 of them.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

Jordan left after three straight rings. The next two seasons Houston wins (Jordan lost in the playoffs that one year, but he had returned mid-season). He comes back and in the next three full seasons he plays the Bulls win three straight rings. That's incredible.

Cavs went 1-3 against G.S, can anyone imagine Jordan losing 3 of 4 finals?

My point was that when MJ left, the Bulls didnt fall off a cliff. I can easily imagine MJ getting swept if he had played the Dubs without Pippen. Bulls would have gotten smoked.

I doubt that. The warriors had no rodman or ron harper. I think people forget how good Ron Harper was. In his first run, without Pippen, Horace Grant cancels out Draymond Green and Jordan could shut down either Curry or Thompson before they got Durant. With Pippen, Durant is cut off and Jordan Jordan takes Curry. Harper d's up Thompson and Rodman eats Draymond Green alive. The bulls would probably win that series in 5 playing by the old rules and if you use todays no touch rules, Jordan averages 60.

And that's not slighting the Warriors, I just think the bulls were that good.

MJ had trouble guarding Reggie Miller and Allen Iverson. No way he is going to keep up with Curry who is like a combination of the two. MJ would be drained running through all those picks. I'm not forgetting about Harper. I just dont see him being effective against that offense. Curry is an anomaly. He sucks the defense in like no other player I have ever seen. Klay and Draymond would offset Harper and Rodman. Not only would they get the defense but Klay would outscore all 3 of them.

Any effective 3 point shooter is near impossible to defend, especially with Curry who has re-written the rules by wisely figuring out how to beat the line defense by shooting 2-3 feet behind on a regular basis. It's insane.

You basically have to pressure Curry at mid-court and force him into steals and poor passing. Maybe a Payton or Stockton could limit him with pressure and steals but only minimally. That's just the nature of a sport in which a guy can fire the ball from anywhere and score. Unless you can find a 7 footer with footspeed like a 6 footer, you're going to have problems dealing with such a lethal, unorthodox shooter.

This si why 90's baseketball was better, it was more of an inside game. Players like Shaq ruined the beauty of it with his simple catch and dunk. Hardaway and Kobe brought some of what Jordan brought with their creative drives, but the sport today lacks it.

 

[Asclepias]

I still say it is a bigger achievement to win championships with 3 separate teams with totally different chemistries, coaches, environments etc than 6 with the same team. If Lebron gets a ring with the Lakers, I have to go with him even though I have more respect for Jordan.

Let him play for the Timberwolves or some other bottom feeder and then win a title.

Lebron is good. He gets more phantom "Jordan foul calls" than even Jordan got and he is far more protected. Let him play against the Bad Boys of the Pistons with a weaker team behind him and see how he fares.

Jordan could shoot and score in the middle of 3 players. The guy brought beauty to the game that is now missing with the outside, no-contact available shooters of today.

Thats the thing about Lebron. Every team he goes to is a contender to win it all. Thats one thing I cant say about MJ. Lebron goes to Miami and wins 2 rings after going to 4 straight Finals. He goes back to the bad news Cavs and goes 4 more Finals wins 1 ring all the while battling arguably the best dynasty in the NBA. Now he is with the Lakers and once again he is a contender to win it all after a injury year. Did I mention that when he leaves teams they literally fall off a cliff? When MJ left the Bulls the first time they came within a bad call of going to the ECF's

Jordan left after three straight rings. The next two seasons Houston wins (Jordan lost in the playoffs that one year, but he had returned mid-season). He comes back and in the next three full seasons he plays the Bulls win three straight rings. That's incredible.

Cavs went 1-3 against G.S, can anyone imagine Jordan losing 3 of 4 finals?

My point was that when MJ left, the Bulls didnt fall off a cliff. I can easily imagine MJ getting swept if he had played the Dubs without Pippen. Bulls would have gotten smoked.

I doubt that. The warriors had no rodman or ron harper. I think people forget how good Ron Harper was. In his first run, without Pippen, Horace Grant cancels out Draymond Green and Jordan could shut down either Curry or Thompson before they got Durant. With Pippen, Durant is cut off and Jordan Jordan takes Curry. Harper d's up Thompson and Rodman eats Draymond Green alive. The bulls would probably win that series in 5 playing by the old rules and if you use todays no touch rules, Jordan averages 60.

And that's not slighting the Warriors, I just think the bulls were that good.

MJ had trouble guarding Reggie Miller and Allen Iverson. No way he is going to keep up with Curry who is like a combination of the two. MJ would be drained running through all those picks. I'm not forgetting about Harper. I just dont see him being effective against that offense. Curry is an anomaly. He sucks the defense in like no other player I have ever seen. Klay and Draymond would offset Harper and Rodman. Not only would they get the defense but Klay would outscore all 3 of them.

Any effective 3 point shooter is near impossible to defend, especially with Curry who has re-written the rules by wisely figuring out how to protect the line defense by shooting 2-3 feet behind on a regular basis.

You basically have to pressure Curry at mid-court and force him into steals and poor passing. Maybe a Payton or Stockton could limit him with pressure, but only minimally. That's just the nature of a sport in which a guy can fire the ball from anywhere. Unless you can find a 7 footer with footspeed like a 6 footer, you're going to have problems dealing with such a lethal, unorthodox shooter.

Most 3 pt shooters when I was growing up were one trick ponys. The thing with Curry is that not only is he the most prolific 3 point shooter in NBA history, the dude has handles, can get to the rim with either hand, and runs all game long. You cant guard someone like that by yourself so your team has to commit to help which in turns makes you think instead of reacting naturally.

 

[IM2]

Watching the Last Dance had me reminiscing and reliving my younger days. It also reminded me how no matter how much I like Lebron he just cant surpass MJ for the title of the GOAT in basketball. MJ was just on another level that no one will probably ever reach. I mean this dude won 3 straight, came back and won 3 more straight. Granted he didnt do it by himself. But he did do it with flair and an artistry that is unmatched. MJ may not be my favorite person but he definitely is the GOAT.

Lebron is not even close. Mike is the GOAT. The numbers tell the story.

Michael Jordan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

LeBron James - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How can you compare the numbers at this point? MJ's career is over and his numbers are set. LeBron is still playing, and his numbers are growing. There are a LOT of really high level players now. I don't recall this many great players when MJ was playing.

I wouldn't be jumping to make a judgement at this point, while LeBron is still playing. I'm not saying MJ isn't the better player, just that we have his whole career to judge him on.

Lebron has played longer than MJ so his numbers are now a result of his longevity. And still Lebrons scoring average is lower than Jordans and he has fewer championships. I do think that we forget a whole lot of players from past eras. There were all kinds of great players during Jordans era. The game was far more physical then and the end of hand checking and with hard fouls now being technicals, Jordan would average 50 points a game under the current rules. Both players are great but Lebron is no Jordan. Lebron has great straight ahead speed but he is not as agile as Jordan was. Jordan could slash and run straight ahead. Lebron is more like a bulldozer and he gets to stiff arm players as he goes to the hoop.

But I think that pretty soon Zion Williamson will make us forget both of them.