Who is for/against green living?

[Pogo]

If your system is solar THERMAL -- that's a splendid idea.. It divorces the issues of being grid attached from heating water. Solar PV --- means going into the energy biz and competing with the big boys. Not something the average homeowner should undertake. Especially in your area where subsidies and feed-in tariffs can shift in an eyeblink..

Why not? You don't "compete"; you use what you need and sell any excess back to the power company. I've got several friends that do that including my next-door neighbor.

Of course you compete.. You are in the energy biz.. Most folks aren't even HOME when their generator plant is producing. Not as much as you WILL BE COMPETING in the future when the Big Boys have the OPTION of taking your power.. Right now -- they are REQUIRED to.. If everybody did it -- they couldn't take it all. And the "must carry" rules will change. Probably go under real contracts for the purchase of your electrical plant.

You decided to finance a large generation scheme, eat the additional roof maintenance and wait at least 10 years to make a profit (with current absurdly high subsidies and without consideration of finance and maintenance costs)..

You are buying back power evenings, mornings, and nights at MAYBE reduced rates. But selling at peak rates. You are --- in the energy generation biz. Especially if you're not home to USE the generation at midday peaks..

Do you not understand what the word "compete" means?

If I stuck solar panels on my roof, enough to generate way more than I needed, and then went to my neighbors and told 'em "ditch the power company and I'll hook ya up", THAT would be competing. As it is, a solar home feeding power back to the grid is just one more of that company's sources. No different from their getting X amount from this coal plant, Y amount from a neighboring region's power, Z amount from a dam, etc. You're a supplier for that company in that moment -- not a competitor. Sheeeeeesh.

I can even see it on my electric bill, the part the company buys that's "green". That's part of it.

 

[flacaltenn]

Why not? You don't "compete"; you use what you need and sell any excess back to the power company. I've got several friends that do that including my next-door neighbor.

Of course you compete.. You are in the energy biz.. Most folks aren't even HOME when their generator plant is producing. Not as much as you WILL BE COMPETING in the future when the Big Boys have the OPTION of taking your power.. Right now -- they are REQUIRED to.. If everybody did it -- they couldn't take it all. And the "must carry" rules will change. Probably go under real contracts for the purchase of your electrical plant.

You decided to finance a large generation scheme, eat the additional roof maintenance and wait at least 10 years to make a profit (with current absurdly high subsidies and without consideration of finance and maintenance costs)..

You are buying back power evenings, mornings, and nights at MAYBE reduced rates. But selling at peak rates. You are --- in the energy generation biz. Especially if you're not home to USE the generation at midday peaks..

Do you not understand what the word "compete" means?

If I stuck solar panels on my roof, enough to generate way more than I needed, and then went to my neighbors and told 'em "ditch the power company and I'll hook ya up", THAT would be competing. As it is, a solar home feeding power back to the grid is just one more of that company's sources. No different from their getting X amount from this coal plant, Y amount from a neighboring region's power, Z amount from a dam, etc. You're a supplier for that company in that moment -- not a competitor. Sheeeeeesh.

I can even see it on my electric bill, the part the company buys that's "green". That's part of it.

You've ALREADY gone "to your neighbors and told them to "ditch the power company"..
Who do you think is USING that excess power that the electric company buys? You --- have customers.

Unfortunately, you have NO control over your CHOICE of middlemen. If you THINK you understand your billing --- then tell me the Diff. between these three rates...

1) The rate at which your generation is sold to the grid operator.

2) The differential between what they are paying YOU for each KWhr and what they are turning around and COLLECTING from their customers PLUS the subsidies they collect from GOVT for solar generation credits.

3) The rate that you pay 18 hours each day when your panels are not generating any appreciable juice.

Few grid-tied owners actually understand the nuances of the biz they are in.. They just look at their bills and wait for the break-even. But right now --- your deal is fixed. And you are PARTNERED with your monopolistic grid operator who is sucking LARGE profits from your biz..

But no worries.. Keep thinking you're powering your home TOTALLY with solar energy..

<<Every state has a different deal.. So maybe you just get flat credits for KWhrs, or maybe the power operator deals you a better deal.. Hard to tell without reading the local utility guidelines.. But be assured, OTHERS are profiting from your biz>>

 

[Pogo]

I see we're backing away from the absurd competitor/supplier conflation.

Just say it. Man up.

 

[flacaltenn]

Never back down. Dont have to...

With Rooftop Solar on Rise, U.S. Utilities Are Striking Back by Marc Gunther: Yale Environment 360

The regulated utilities say they welcome the growth of rooftop solar, as long as businesses and homeowners who install rooftop panels pay their fair share of the costs of maintaining the electricity grid, which they rely on when the sun isn&#8217;t shining. The utilities say solar customers currently benefit from subsidies and regulations, particularly the policy of &#8220;net metering,&#8221; which requires utilities to buy back excess electricity from rooftop solar systems, at retail prices in some locales.

Arizona Public Service, which has asked regulators to impose higher costs on solar customers, says current rules essentially allow those customers to use the grid for free. As a result, customers who can&#8217;t afford solar panels or don&#8217;t have a place to put them end up paying higher rates. That, in turn, will help drive more customers to solar, increase the burden on those who don&#8217;t have it, and, not incidentally, eat into the utility&#8217;s earnings. That&#8217;s not a sustainable model for the future, the utility argues.

In Arizona, solar firms formed an advocacy group called TUSK (Tell Utilities Solar won&#8217;t be Killed) and hired as chairman Barry Goldwater Jr., a former Republican congressman and son of the 1964 presidential nominee. True to his heritage, Goldwater casts the issue as one of giving consumers &#8220;the freedom to make the best choice.&#8221; The utilities, he says, &#8220;don&#8217;t like competition. Competition tends to drive the price down and the quality up.&#8221; In Georgia, too, Tea Party conservatives have allied with environmentalists to form a Green Tea Coalition to oppose the local utility, again under the banner of free choice

Apparently --- you went into a biz you dont really fully understand. Why are states and utilities considering charging your biz extra fees for grid use --- if you're not in the energy biz. AND WHY do the utilities companies consider you competition when you don't actually know you're in the biz?

THEY still have to worry about maintaining the GRID and figuring out to purchase and finance and deliver the energy that gets your sorry ass thru the OTHER 18 hours a day... To them -- you're a pain in their ass and as the article says --- you are COMPETITION..

We done Pogo? Got anything more consequential to argue than my considered use of the word competition?

 

[andy753]

Is it age? It seems a good majority of older people don't believe in clean energy.
Is it polital party? Dems seem for it, republican against it.
Is it education? Smart people like it, low/uneducated seem to be against it.

I, for one, am for it. I know right now it has issues, but can you unlock your stubborn mind for a minute and think how advanced it will be in 20 years from now? 50? 100? You have to walk before you can run. If we keep saying drill, drill, drill, it WILL run out. Don't be ignorant. I doubt it will run out in my lifetime, but I have kids, and they will have kids, and they will have kids. Think about that, you old, stupid, republican fool.

I've had employees walk 30 feet past the recycle bin to throw their stuff in the garbage, yes, work harder and go out of their way in order to NOT RECYCLE. I didn't think this was possible, but it happens every day. Some people are amazing.

So you employ old, uneducated, Republicans and then claim you are smart because you are a Democrat.

I'm for green energy, but why would anyone want to work for a educated, pompous ass dumbshit like you?

Read the post, I didn't state age, education, or political stance of my employees. Nice of you to assume. And just so you know, you are wrong. I'm guessing most days of you life are like this post.

 

[Pogo]

Never back down. Dont have to...

With Rooftop Solar on Rise, U.S. Utilities Are Striking Back by Marc Gunther: Yale Environment 360

The regulated utilities say they welcome the growth of rooftop solar, as long as businesses and homeowners who install rooftop panels pay their fair share of the costs of maintaining the electricity grid, which they rely on when the sun isn&#8217;t shining. The utilities say solar customers currently benefit from subsidies and regulations, particularly the policy of &#8220;net metering,&#8221; which requires utilities to buy back excess electricity from rooftop solar systems, at retail prices in some locales.

Arizona Public Service, which has asked regulators to impose higher costs on solar customers, says current rules essentially allow those customers to use the grid for free. As a result, customers who can&#8217;t afford solar panels or don&#8217;t have a place to put them end up paying higher rates. That, in turn, will help drive more customers to solar, increase the burden on those who don&#8217;t have it, and, not incidentally, eat into the utility&#8217;s earnings. That&#8217;s not a sustainable model for the future, the utility argues.

In Arizona, solar firms formed an advocacy group called TUSK (Tell Utilities Solar won&#8217;t be Killed) and hired as chairman Barry Goldwater Jr., a former Republican congressman and son of the 1964 presidential nominee. True to his heritage, Goldwater casts the issue as one of giving consumers &#8220;the freedom to make the best choice.&#8221; The utilities, he says, &#8220;don&#8217;t like competition. Competition tends to drive the price down and the quality up.&#8221; In Georgia, too, Tea Party conservatives have allied with environmentalists to form a Green Tea Coalition to oppose the local utility, again under the banner of free choice

Apparently --- you went into a biz you dont really fully understand. Why are states and utilities considering charging your biz extra fees for grid use --- if you're not in the energy biz. AND WHY do the utilities companies consider you competition when you don't actually know you're in the biz?

THEY still have to worry about maintaining the GRID and figuring out to purchase and finance and deliver the energy that gets your sorry ass thru the OTHER 18 hours a day... To them -- you're a pain in their ass and as the article says --- you are COMPETITION..

We done Pogo? Got anything more consequential to argue than my considered use of the word competition?

I just saw this post for the first time. Good to know you have utterly failed to grasp the meaning of what we've been talking about.

At least you're consistent in your ignorance. Pfft.

 

[keyboardwarrior]

i am for it ...

 

[HenryBHough]

I'm a little on the fence about "green living". I might reconsider when if I(OK, ever) see today's greenies practicing what they preach. Every golden drop of it.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm a little on the fence about "green living". I might reconsider when if I(OK, ever) see today's greenies practicing what they preach. Every golden drop of it.

As if we have a choice. That's the problem. You want us to spend time recycling when we see the rest of you ruining the planet? Do you think we are stupid? We are just warning you righties that you/we are ruining the planet at the rate that we are going. We don't exclude ourselves from the problem. And it didn't matter 100 years ago when we were the only country where everyone had a car but now mexico, china, europe, india, africa they all have corporate smoke stacks and cars and collectively we are killing the planet. The only reason the right denies it is because going green will cost them money. Did you see the same global warming deniers are now backing research on how they can manipulate the ozone and possibly repair gw? That would be much better for them. Continue burning fossel fuels until we run out and just kick the can down the road.

I don't care anymore. I figure the planet will be fine. Its humans that won't be here in 200 years. But so what? Hopefully a few million survive and the planet will repair itself. The worst thing for this planet is humans. As we multiply, the problem gets worse. I love George Carlin's take on it. He says the planet put us here to produce plastic for it. That is our purpose. We'll be gone but the plastic will be left. Maybe God/Nature wanted it that way. We've only been here for a blink of an eye.