What's a Little Smog going to Hurt?

JimH52

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
30,703
Reaction score
4,942
Points
1,170
Location
US

Unkotare

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
92,632
Reaction score
9,051
Points
2,015
Shanghai grinds to a halt as smog nears top of air pollution scale | South China Morning Post

The municipality's landmark buildings disappeared from the skyline yesterday morning as the official air quality index exceeded 400. By 8pm, the index had hit 484, almost reaching the maximum of 500, according to the website of the Shanghai Environmental Monitoring Centre.
Those fossil fuels just keep on giving, huh?


It's not just fossil fuels causing Shanghai's poor air quality.
 

flacaltenn

Diamond Member
Staff member
Senior USMB Moderator
Moderator
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
59,343
Reaction score
13,971
Points
2,180
Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tenn
This is how we would look like if it wasn't for the EPA and clean air act.
Or if the Government exempted itself from its own standards when it was THEIR projects.

See the massive leaking of nuclear waste from the GOVERNMENT nuclear weapons facility. OR the enviro nightmare of our military base pollution.. OR the absolute decrepant state of the TVA dams and coal plants. :eusa_hand:

Similiar to exempting itself from protecting the very symbol of this nation -- the Bald Eagle.. Just tossed THEM under the bus to meet a politically motivated goal also..

That's what the deal is in China.. They needed to guarantee MASSIVE amounts of reliable and cheap power in order to capture foreign investment and foreign skill and knowledge. So -- they had the POWER to ignore their own standards and pollution goals..
 

WheelieAddict

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Messages
7,849
Reaction score
1,138
Points
265
This is how we would look like if it wasn't for the EPA and clean air act.
Or if the Government exempted itself from its own standards when it was THEIR projects.

See the massive leaking of nuclear waste from the GOVERNMENT nuclear weapons facility. OR the enviro nightmare of our military base pollution.. OR the absolute decrepant state of the TVA dams and coal plants. :eusa_hand:

Similiar to exempting itself from protecting the very symbol of this nation -- the Bald Eagle.. Just tossed THEM under the bus to meet a politically motivated goal also..

That's what the deal is in China.. They needed to guarantee MASSIVE amounts of reliable and cheap power in order to capture foreign investment and foreign skill and knowledge. So -- they had the POWER to ignore their own standards and pollution goals..
Yes, since the EPA and clean water act have not stopped all pollution and has been circumvented by some in government from time to time it has done no good. :eusa_hand:
 
OP
JimH52

JimH52

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
30,703
Reaction score
4,942
Points
1,170
Location
US
If it were left to the GOP, they would gut the EPA and let those smoke stacks begin belching black smoke again. "Back to the Good Old Days"
 

HenryBHough

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
29,247
Reaction score
5,570
Points
290
Location
Oak Grove, Massachusetts
I recall the days when black smoke meant there were Americans working at well paying jobs. Then lighter smoke when regulation was at a sane level. Then NO smoke at all but it also meant all the jobs were gone.
 

freedombecki

Let's go swimmin'!
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
23,687
Reaction score
7,638
Points
198
Location
My house
Shanghai grinds to a halt as smog nears top of air pollution scale | South China Morning Post

The municipality's landmark buildings disappeared from the skyline yesterday morning as the official air quality index exceeded 400. By 8pm, the index had hit 484, almost reaching the maximum of 500, according to the website of the Shanghai Environmental Monitoring Centre.
Those fossil fuels just keep on giving, huh?
Isn't China the place where all the squawking took place about liberal human rights violations for the last couple of decades? Now everybody owns a car, they're still villains!

Oh, my aching back.
 

freedombecki

Let's go swimmin'!
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
23,687
Reaction score
7,638
Points
198
Location
My house
If it were left to the GOP, they would gut the EPA and let those smoke stacks begin belching black smoke again. "Back to the Good Old Days"
You know how we know that's an unfounded assertion, Jim? We were paying attention when Republican President George W. Bush cleaned up all the brownfields and received a unique honor from the group, "Ducks Unlimited" for repairing and saving natural Duck habitats after making them nontoxic duck paradises. He also successfully challenged power generating plants to attach scrubbers to their smokestacks which removed 99.6% of the toxic wastes from going into the air. Surprised? Of course you are. The Democrat Press kept it very, very quiet by ignoring everything good that he did, including environment cleanup the government didn't have to pay for since industries willingly volunteered to do this necessary task of being a good business neighbor.

Edit: Oh, yes, and incentives to do right environmentally are a lot cheaper than suing a company out of existing and throwing anywhere from 500 to 50,000 well-paid employees out of their jobs.
 
Last edited:
OP
JimH52

JimH52

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
30,703
Reaction score
4,942
Points
1,170
Location
US
If it were left to the GOP, they would gut the EPA and let those smoke stacks begin belching black smoke again. "Back to the Good Old Days"
You know how we know that's an unfounded assertion, Jim? We were paying attention when Republican President George W. Bush cleaned up all the brownfields and received a unique honor from the group, "Ducks Unlimited" for repairing and saving natural Duck habitats after making them nontoxic duck paradises. He also successfully challenged power generating plants to attach scrubbers to their smokestacks which removed 99.6% of the toxic wastes from going into the air. Surprised? Of course you are. The Democrat Press kept it very, very quiet by ignoring everything good that he did, including environment cleanup the government didn't have to pay for since industries willingly volunteered to do this necessary task of being a good business neighbor.

Edit: Oh, yes, and incentives to do right environmentally are a lot cheaper than suing a company out of existing and throwing anywhere from 500 to 50,000 well-paid employees out of their jobs.
The Republican plan to abolish the EPA, ending the four-decade bipartisan consensus to ensure healthy air and water for our kids | ThinkProgress

Unperturbed, House Republicans this week will take their first step in a process that many on the right hope will end with the complete dismantling of the EPA. The House is considering amendments to the 2011 Continuing Resolution (H.R. 1), including dozens of proposals to prevent the EPA from regulating greenhouse pollution, coal ash, water pollutants, and pesticide cleanup. Rep. Mike Pompeo’s (R-KS) amendment to cut $8.5 million from the EPA passed last night, and a vote on slashing 33 percent from the EPA is forthcoming.
Do you need more or will this suffice?
 

flacaltenn

Diamond Member
Staff member
Senior USMB Moderator
Moderator
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
59,343
Reaction score
13,971
Points
2,180
Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tenn
I'm all for prohibiting the EPA from regulating CO2 emissions.. It will DETRACT from the mission to clean the environment.. AND I'm also for forcing the EPA to JUSTIFY onerous lowering of toxic levels for very little enviro gain..

Wow JimH -- ThinkProgress eh??? So the mean old scum-sucking Republicans propose an amendment to cut $8.5Mill from the EPA ---- and of COURSE --- you being a BIG FAN of ThinkProgress --- just accept that equates with DISMANTLING the EPA...

What's the annual budget of the EPA JimH?? Here's a hint.. That DRACONIAN cut is 0.1% of their yearly budget... Try typing thinkforyourself instead of thinkprogress.... It might help..
 

flacaltenn

Diamond Member
Staff member
Senior USMB Moderator
Moderator
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
59,343
Reaction score
13,971
Points
2,180
Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tenn
This is how we would look like if it wasn't for the EPA and clean air act.
Or if the Government exempted itself from its own standards when it was THEIR projects.

See the massive leaking of nuclear waste from the GOVERNMENT nuclear weapons facility. OR the enviro nightmare of our military base pollution.. OR the absolute decrepant state of the TVA dams and coal plants. :eusa_hand:

Similiar to exempting itself from protecting the very symbol of this nation -- the Bald Eagle.. Just tossed THEM under the bus to meet a politically motivated goal also..

That's what the deal is in China.. They needed to guarantee MASSIVE amounts of reliable and cheap power in order to capture foreign investment and foreign skill and knowledge. So -- they had the POWER to ignore their own standards and pollution goals..
Yes, since the EPA and clean water act have not stopped all pollution and has been circumvented by some in government from time to time it has done no good. :eusa_hand:
you're right. It MIGHT sound like a dismissal of our commitment to reduce pollution in the USA. But it's not really.. The topic is China. And my point was that it NEVER works to have a government "regulate" its OWN projects and plans.. That leads inevitably to the problems in this OP...


Which is how WE get to the reality that the US Govt is one of the nations top polluters.

OR --- (a decision I'm still boiling mad about) --- how the Govt can cut waivers and exemptions to allow the death certificates for Eagles to be renewed for 30 years for their piddling hopeless wind farm fantasies.. While continuing to hunt down and prosecute any of their "enemies" for doing the same..

:mad:
 
Last edited:
OP
JimH52

JimH52

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
30,703
Reaction score
4,942
Points
1,170
Location
US
Or if the Government exempted itself from its own standards when it was THEIR projects.

See the massive leaking of nuclear waste from the GOVERNMENT nuclear weapons facility. OR the enviro nightmare of our military base pollution.. OR the absolute decrepant state of the TVA dams and coal plants. :eusa_hand:

Similiar to exempting itself from protecting the very symbol of this nation -- the Bald Eagle.. Just tossed THEM under the bus to meet a politically motivated goal also..

That's what the deal is in China.. They needed to guarantee MASSIVE amounts of reliable and cheap power in order to capture foreign investment and foreign skill and knowledge. So -- they had the POWER to ignore their own standards and pollution goals..
Yes, since the EPA and clean water act have not stopped all pollution and has been circumvented by some in government from time to time it has done no good. :eusa_hand:
you're right. It MIGHT sound like a dismissal of our commitment to reduce pollution in the USA. But it's not really.. The topic is China. And my point was that it NEVER works to have a government "regulate" its OWN projects and plans.. That leads inevitably to the problems in this OP...


Which is how WE get to the reality that the US Govt is one of the nations top polluters.

OR --- (a decision I'm still boiling mad about) --- how the Govt can cut waivers and exemptions to allow the death certificates for Eagles to be renewed for 30 years for their piddling hopeless wind farm fantasies.. While continuing to hunt down and prosecute any of their "enemies" for doing the same..

:mad:
China will welcome up with open arms!
 

waltky

Wise ol' monkey
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
26,211
Reaction score
2,581
Points
275
Location
Okolona, KY
India havin' smog problems...

Dangerous smog forces closure of Delhi schools
Sun, Nov 06, 2016 - VISIBLE EFFECTS:parents on Friday described an array of their children’s symptoms, including burning eyes, incessant coughing and congestion that does not clear
For the first time ever, more than 1,800 public elementary schools in India’s capital were closed yesterday to protect children from exposure to dangerous levels of air pollution. The decision affected more than 1 million children. A thick, acrid smog has settled over the capital over the past week, a combination of smoke from burning crops in surrounding agricultural states, fireworks on the Hindu festival of Diwali, dust and vehicle emissions. Levels of the most dangerous particles PM2.5 — fine particulate matter measuring 2.5 micrometers or smaller in diameter — reached 600 micrograms per cubic meter in different parts of the city last week, the Delhi Pollution Control Committee said.

Sustained exposure to that concentration of PM2.5 is equivalent to smoking 40 cigarettes a day, said Sarath Guttikunda, director of Urban Emissions, an independent research group. The particles are small enough to deeply penetrate the lungs and enter the bloodstream, increasing the risk of stroke and heart failure, and can cause severe respiratory problems including asthma and pneumonia. Conditions in the metropolis, home to about 20 million people, were particularly bad last week because there was little wind and the cloud of pollutants was “just going round and round,” Guttikunda said. Teachers and parents said the effects on children were visible.


Pedestrians yesterday walk through Central Park amid heavy smog in New Delhi, India.​

Meenakshi Sahni, principal of the Modern School, closed her private school because of air pollution for the first time on Friday and advised parents via text message to keep their children indoors. There was “widespread coughing” among students and faculty members last week, she said. “You could actually feel that there was something weighing down on them physically,” Sahni said. “Even at the gathering in the auditorium, you could feel as if somebody is strangling you.” Foreigners and Indian elites have expressed growing alarm about winter air pollution in recent years, and some embassies have begun discouraging families with children from moving there.

However, this year is the first time Indian schools have taken such precautions. As they waited to pick up children after school on Friday, parents described an array of their children’s symptoms, including burning eyes, incessant coughing and congestion that does not clear. Seema Sansanwal, 38, said when she takes her three-year-old son to the doctor, the doctor “tells us, ‘Go out for an excursion and leave the city for some days, and he will be fine,’ instead of diagnosing.” Poonam Tokas, 35, said she could not believe her eyes at the smog on Monday, the day after Diwali, and has forbidden her children from playing outside until it clears. “We are going to buy masks this evening,” she said. “But I do not think anyone can save us from the wrath of nature.”

MORE
 

Unkotare

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
92,632
Reaction score
9,051
Points
2,015
Shanghai grinds to a halt as smog nears top of air pollution scale | South China Morning Post

The municipality's landmark buildings disappeared from the skyline yesterday morning as the official air quality index exceeded 400. By 8pm, the index had hit 484, almost reaching the maximum of 500, according to the website of the Shanghai Environmental Monitoring Centre.
Those fossil fuels just keep on giving, huh?



Is your computer running on bunny rabbit kisses?
 

Unkotare

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
92,632
Reaction score
9,051
Points
2,015
Shanghai grinds to a halt as smog nears top of air pollution scale | South China Morning Post

The municipality's landmark buildings disappeared from the skyline yesterday morning as the official air quality index exceeded 400. By 8pm, the index had hit 484, almost reaching the maximum of 500, according to the website of the Shanghai Environmental Monitoring Centre.
Those fossil fuels just keep on giving, huh?
Isn't China the place where all the squawking took place about liberal human rights violations for the last couple of decades? Now everybody owns a car, they're still villains!

Oh, my aching back.


Everyone does not own a car.
 

initforme

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
13,769
Reaction score
1,542
Points
265
China.....people wearing masks to breathe. And people here think their economic model is to be looked go to?
 

Agit8r

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
10,526
Reaction score
1,403
Points
245
It's going to keep killing the elderly, and others with respiratory issues.

That is what the GOP is all about; blood for money.
 

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top