Who gave us this debt? Well, both parties did, but the fault is more "R" than "D"

[Vast LWC]

I am more than happy to accept fact.

Now that we have uncovered the past does that make the record breaking deficits of today alright? Isn't it time we stopped the reckless spending?

Nope, I agree with you here.

I think deficit spending definitely needs to be curbed.

 

[Vast LWC]

The Dems spent over 2 trillion last year.

So that pretty much erases the GOP spending completely.

Actually they overspent by 1.4 Trillion last year, which was included in the second part of the post.

The Reps are still 2.3 Trillion ahead, or 4.7 Trillion ahead, depending on whether you place the dividing line between fiscal years or years of office.

Admittedly though, the Dems do seem to be catching up fast. They seem to be trying to take steps to stop that trend though, we'll have to see how it turns out.

 

[Vast LWC]

The OP is completely missing the point. Focusing on the Dems vs. the GOP is a waste of time. The real contest is Big Government vs. Limited Government.

Throughout human history (and probably among alien civilizations as well), governments have always sought power accretion. This is one of the reasons why The Founders designed our system of government the way the did. Sadly, they did not have the predictive power to see how the legal profession in collusion with professional politicians would work to undo the checks and balances they defined.

I made this point specifically because the Glenn Beck crowd seems to be under the impression that the left-wing types have been driving up the debt, with some nefarious purpose in mind.

Beck himself has stated on his show that he believes the debt is being driven up by "progressives" in an attempt to secure some sort of totalitarian federal power.

Clearly, crazy, conspiracy-theory motivations aside, simply judging by the numbers, this is not the case.

 

[Vast LWC]

I am more than happy to accept fact.

Now that we have uncovered the past does that make the record breaking deficits of today alright? Isn't it time we stopped the reckless spending?

It will be interesting to see those figures at the end of Obama's term. That being said, there is a problem with the figures in that VLC hasn't taken into account what $200 billion in 1965 translates into real money these days...

True, I forgot about that too.

While that is a decent point, when it applies to debt specifically, it is a non-issue.

Inflation actually reduces the real value of debt over time, it doesn't increase it.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The Dems spent over 2 trillion last year.

So that pretty much erases the GOP spending completely.

Actually they overspent by 1.4 Trillion last year, which was included in the second part of the post.

The Reps are still 2.3 Trillion ahead, or 4.7 Trillion ahead, depending on whether you place the dividing line between fiscal years or years of office.

Admittedly though, the Dems do seem to be catching up fast. They seem to be trying to take steps to stop that trend though, we'll have to see how it turns out.

So they claim, but my limited math skills say much different.

 

[georgephillip]

And what about Wall Street's contribution to our current level of debt?

If 97% of our currency is loaned into existence by for-profit bankers who can't think farther ahead than their next quarterly profit statement and ALL Republicans and Democrats function as Wall Street's handmaidens, doesn't that make all of us debt slaves?

The best alternative I've seen lies in taking back the public right to create money.

Since, in spite of what Joseph Stiglitz thinks, nationalizing the Federal Reserve would be a stretch right now, state-owned banks on the model of North Dakota offer a good start.

Florida gubernatorial candidate Farid Khavari propses a state-owned bank that would loan directly to borrowers:

"State and local government budgets will balance without higher taxes when the BSF (Bank of the State of Florida) cuts interest costs. 6% BSF credit cards will save people billions per month, money that stays in Florida instead of going to the big banks--and the state will make huge profits on that too.

"Saving billions in interest costs will create millions of jobs without subsidies just by keeping those billions circulating in Florida. Eventually the state will earn enough to reduce and eliminate state and local taxes while every Floridian has economic security in a recession-proof Florida."

Maybe Wall Street, Republicans, and Democrats have all outlived their usefulness?

See: Ellen Brown's Web of Debt Blog for details.

 

[Neubarth]

When I am not pretending to be a Liberal, I usually tell people that the fault does not lie in political parties. It was and still is, instead, a moral and ethical collapse of all leadership for the past twenty years and longer.

It was the horribly corrupt leadership in the Banks and the mortgage industry. It was the stupidity of the legislature membership in passing faulty legislation that allowed those bankers to get away with financial genocide on the poor and middle class. It was the stupidity of the President and the leadership of the FED to not call attention to the decay in values that were taking place in the banking system. Everybody who could of put a stop to it failed to exercise their right to say, "Enough is enough, STOP it! Damn it! Stop it NOW!"

The sad thing is the thieves are still being allowed to fleece the public. It is time to put an instant stop to that.

 

[georgephillip]

Conservatives are very good at holding their candidates feet to the fire when it comes to issues like taxes and supporting the troops.

I wonder if Cons and Libs might unite around the issue of state banks in 2010 and 2012?

How many of us would be willing to withhold their vote from any candidate who doesn't support public banking in their state?

Currently there are 7 candidates in as many states (Florida, Oregon, Illinois, California, Washington State, Vermont, and Idaho), including 3 Democrats, 2 Greens, 1 Republican, and 1 Independent, who are campaigning on public banking.

Gaelan Brown, Vermont's Independent, says on his website, "Washington DC has lost all moral authority over Vermont."

Gaelan continues:

"Vermont should explore creating a State-owned bank that would work with private VT-based banks, to insulate VT from Wall Street corruption, and to increase investment capital for VT businesses, modeled after the very successful State-owned Bank of North Dakota."

See: Global Research.ca>"Creating our Own Credit: The Growing Movement for Publicly-Owned Banks" by Ellen Brown (03/18/2010)

 

[Neubarth]

Conservatives are very good at holding their candidates feet to the fire when it comes to issues like taxes and supporting the troops.

I wonder if Cons and Libs might unite around the issue of state banks in 2010 and 2012?

How many of us would be willing to withhold their vote from any candidate who doesn't support public banking in their state?

Currently there are 7 candidates in as many states (Florida, Oregon, Illinois, California, Washington State, Vermont, and Idaho), including 3 Democrats, 2 Greens, 1 Republican, and 1 Independent, who are campaigning on public banking.

Gaelan Brown, Vermont's Independent, says on his website, "Washington DC has lost all moral authority over Vermont."

Gaelan continues:

"Vermont should explore creating a State-owned bank that would work with private VT-based banks, to insulate VT from Wall Street corruption, and to increase investment capital for VT businesses, modeled after the very successful State-owned Bank of North Dakota."

See: Global Research.ca>"Creating our Own Credit: The Growing Movement for Publicly-Owned Banks" by Ellen Brown (03/18/2010)

That would still leave the totally corrupt thieves and scoundrels in the Washington sanctioned banks around the country. I favor trying those bankers and executing them. We have got to clean up this mess. The sooner we do so the better. Any banker who has been involved in the mortgage scandal or in illegally influencing the direction of wall street should be shot by firing squad. Let's clean up this mess. I figure nearly a million people need to be shot. Let's get 'er done.

 

[Vast LWC]

That would still leave the totally corrupt thieves and scoundrels in the Washington sanctioned banks around the country. I favor trying those bankers and executing them. We have got to clean up this mess. The sooner we do so the better. Any banker who has been involved in the mortgage scandal or in illegally influencing the direction of wall street should be shot by firing squad. Let's clean up this mess. I figure nearly a million people need to be shot. Let's get 'er done.

Hah! That works for me.

 

[georgephillip]

If the sole source of money creation in this country is the Federal Reserve System and every dollar created by the Fed comes from a Treasury IOU or bond that's loaned in existence through a process known as monetization of debt then eternally increasing debt is independent of Republicans and Democrats.

There will always be more money owed than the total money supply currently in existence.

The only solution is eternal borrowing from Wall Street, the government, and the Fed.

It's a Ponzi-like scam that both political divisions of the Wall Street Party take turns inflicting on American workers.

 

[Neubarth]

If the sole source of money creation in this country is the Federal Reserve System and every dollar created by the Fed comes from a Treasury IOU or bond that's loaned in existence through a process known as monetization of debt then eternally increasing debt is independent of Republicans and Democrats.

There will always be more money owed than the total money supply currently in existence.

The only solution is eternal borrowing from Wall Street, the government, and the Fed.

It's a Ponzi-like scam that both political divisions of the Wall Street Party take turns inflicting on American workers.

Another insane lie hidden in doublespeak. The FED is not the sole source of money creation in this country. Congress authorizes the spending of money by government. The FED has no say in the matter, no matter how many times you post this lie.

You need to learn what money supply is. It is obvious that you do not have a clue.

There is no Ponzi like scam. We were almost this much in debt as a percentage of the GDP in 1950. We were able to decrease that percentage of debt to 37 or 38 percent of GDP a quarter of a century later. It all depends upon who we elect to office. We need fiscal conservatives. The last one we had was Blowjob Bill. We could sure use him again with or without the extras

 

[Maple]

Funny the so called fiscal party has a much worse fiscal record in fact.

The FACT remains, two wrongs do not make a right. Obama will quadruple the debt, in fact, it's sooooooooooooooooo bad that he has outspent ALL previous ADMINSTRATIONS COMBINED. Now with his new MASSIVE ENTITLEMENT in health care, it will EXPLODE and BANKRUPT this country.

 

[georgephillip]

Speaking of money supply...any idea why in March of 2006 your heroic Fed stopped publishing the M3 monetary aggregate?

How did our growth rate in 1953 compare with today's?

In 1913 did congress authorize the Fed to create this country's currency by printing money that was then used to buy US Treasury-produced debt instruments?

 

[Neubarth]

Speaking of money supply...any idea why in March of 2006 your heroic Fed stopped publishing the M3 monetary aggregate?

How did our growth rate in 1953 compare with today's?

In 1913 did congress authorize the Fed to create this country's currency by printing money that was then used to buy US Treasury-produced debt instruments?

Up to more of your crazy shit? Anybody can calculate M3. What does it matter about 1953 and today? In the early 1950's Gross Debt was running about 54% of GDP. Now it is running about 98% of GDP. Not very much difference from a Debt standpoint. We are in a Depression now. We were not in a Depression then. The FED does not print money. I wish you would give up on that insane lie of yours. Lie after lie after lie after lie after lie from you. In your crazy mind, you probably have told yourself that lie so many times that YOU believe it, but nobody else does.

 

[georgephillip]

"The Fed does not print money."

The Bureau of Engraving and Printing does the printing and the Fed "buys" the money for about six cents per every dollar. The money then "buys" US Treasury bonds which transform into the Fed's reserves.

The reserves are distributed to Fed member banks where they are LOANED into circulation at INTEREST.

The bankers make money on money they received for the cost of printing, and shills like you call it genius.

The Federal Reserve System and its shills are parasites the entire planet would be better of without.

IT'S THE DEBT, STUPID!

 

[Full-Auto]

How did we get all this debt? Let's look at the whole picture:

Let's start in the Johnson administration, when the debt rose from $305 Billion Dollars to $350 Billion Dollars. A total increase of $45 Billion Dollars over 5+ years

By the end of the Ford Administration the debt stood at $620 Billion Dollars. An Increase of $270 Billion Dollars over 8 Years.

The National Debt at the end of the Carter administration stood at $907 Billion Dollars. An Increase of $287 Billion dollars over 4 years.

During that entire period, Democrats held congress, so we'll halve the damage from the Nixon/Ford era.

So far the Democrats caused more debt, 467 Billion Dems to 135 Billion Reps, but here's where things start to change...

In January 1981, the House of Representatives went Republican on the wave of Reagan's popularity, and remained that way until 1987. This meant that Republicans were effectively in control of spending, having the House, the presidency and a good portion of the Senate.

During this period, the debt rose from 907 Billion to 2.2 Trillion Dollars, an increase of 1.3 Trillion Dollars.

For everyone keeping count, that is now 467 Billion Dems, 1.43 Trillion Reps.

(cont.)

Damn clueless you are.

Why didnt you mention Democrats spending SS to hide the debt and deficit?

 

[RodISHI]

That would still leave the totally corrupt thieves and scoundrels in the Washington sanctioned banks around the country. I favor trying those bankers and executing them. We have got to clean up this mess. The sooner we do so the better. Any banker who has been involved in the mortgage scandal or in illegally influencing the direction of wall street should be shot by firing squad. Let's clean up this mess. I figure nearly a million people need to be shot. Let's get 'er done.

Hah! That works for me.

Shooting them is a little drastic. Simply strip them of all of their wealth, take away their abilities to work in any finance situation and put them in low income housing until they can get back on their feet working for their money like regular folk.

 

[Vast LWC]

Funny the so called fiscal party has a much worse fiscal record in fact.

The FACT remains, two wrongs do not make a right. Obama will quadruple the debt, in fact, it's sooooooooooooooooo bad that he has outspent ALL previous ADMINSTRATIONS COMBINED. Now with his new MASSIVE ENTITLEMENT in health care, it will EXPLODE and BANKRUPT this country.

Wow, that is a complete and utter lie.

Please provide us with a credible source proving that Obama has so far "outspent all previous Administrations combined".

Oh, and Glenn Beck clips don't count as a "credible source", nor does any other opinion commentator.

 

[Truthmatters]

List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lets study the economic history and figure out just what really works huh?