Who Are The Palestinians?

[Mindful]

Disagree Mr. Pessimistic Conquista

Yeah, I know - whether folks believe it or not, there is a part of me that wishes that this were not true - that peaceful coexistence between the Israelis and Palestinians was still possible, but - and this is pure personal opinion - I think that possibility died a quiet, lonely death, quite some time ago.

I wouldn't say "quiet". Arafat killed it, following his triumphant Trojan Horse triumphal entry into Ramallah. I bet the Israelis rued that day, fools that they were, following yet another impossible dream.

 

[Mindful]

Well no. It hasn't "existed for thousands of years". It totally ceased to exist thousands of years ago and was only recreated in modern times.

You pro-terrorist antisemites can say anything you want, but that does not change the truth of the matter, namely that the Jewish nation has existed for over three millennia and Jewish presence on the land extends for that entire time. The nation-state of Israel did not always exist on the land in question, but the nation of Jewish people have a written history going back over three thousand.

It is only because you are such a filthy, double-talking hater of Jews that you pursue all this pro-terrorist crap of yours.

Let's talk about "truth" (never mind the fact that you have yet to substantiate any of your accusations).

We are talking about Israel. The nation. Have you figured that part out yet? Go back and read the pertinent posts if you are confused. Israel ceased to exist thousands of years ago. It's an ancient Kingdom that is long gone. In that regard - it's like a lot of ancient kingdoms that are gone but who's people remain.

This isn't rocket science dude.

You'd have nothing against the Assyrians getting their ancient Kingdom back?

I'm not sure what your point is. If they want to try and get it back - why not? Anyone has a right to try. But ancient history and kingdoms long ago gone do not automatically entitle people to modern lands over the rights of the indiginous people currently living there.

Who said it did? You're arguing from a false premise again.

Israel was not the first choice for the Jews when considering a place they could live, free from persecution.

 

[Coyote]

Well no. It hasn't "existed for thousands of years". It totally ceased to exist thousands of years ago and was only recreated in modern times.

You pro-terrorist antisemites can say anything you want, but that does not change the truth of the matter, namely that the Jewish nation has existed for over three millennia and Jewish presence on the land extends for that entire time. The nation-state of Israel did not always exist on the land in question, but the nation of Jewish people have a written history going back over three thousand.

It is only because you are such a filthy, double-talking hater of Jews that you pursue all this pro-terrorist crap of yours.

Let's talk about "truth" (never mind the fact that you have yet to substantiate any of your accusations).

We are talking about Israel. The nation. Have you figured that part out yet? Go back and read the pertinent posts if you are confused. Israel ceased to exist thousands of years ago. It's an ancient Kingdom that is long gone. In that regard - it's like a lot of ancient kingdoms that are gone but who's people remain.

This isn't rocket science dude.

You'd have nothing against the Assyrians getting their ancient Kingdom back?

I'm not sure what your point is. If they want to try and get it back - why not? Anyone has a right to try. But ancient history and kingdoms long ago gone do not automatically entitle people to modern lands over the rights of the indiginous people currently living there.

Who said it did? You're arguing from a false premise again.

I'm arguing from a "premise" others have laid out as a means of determing who has rights to an area and who doesn't. It's certainly a ridiculous one.

Israel was not the first choice for the Jews when considering a place they could live, free from persecution.

And your point?

 

[Mindful]

You pro-terrorist antisemites can say anything you want, but that does not change the truth of the matter, namely that the Jewish nation has existed for over three millennia and Jewish presence on the land extends for that entire time. The nation-state of Israel did not always exist on the land in question, but the nation of Jewish people have a written history going back over three thousand.

It is only because you are such a filthy, double-talking hater of Jews that you pursue all this pro-terrorist crap of yours.

Let's talk about "truth" (never mind the fact that you have yet to substantiate any of your accusations).

We are talking about Israel. The nation. Have you figured that part out yet? Go back and read the pertinent posts if you are confused. Israel ceased to exist thousands of years ago. It's an ancient Kingdom that is long gone. In that regard - it's like a lot of ancient kingdoms that are gone but who's people remain.

This isn't rocket science dude.

You'd have nothing against the Assyrians getting their ancient Kingdom back?

I'm not sure what your point is. If they want to try and get it back - why not? Anyone has a right to try. But ancient history and kingdoms long ago gone do not automatically entitle people to modern lands over the rights of the indiginous people currently living there.

Who said it did? You're arguing from a false premise again.

I'm arguing from a "premise" others have laid out as a means of determing who has rights to an area and who doesn't. It's certainly a ridiculous one.

Israel was not the first choice for the Jews when considering a place they could live, free from persecution.

And your point?

I should be asking you what yours is.

 

[Coyote]

Let's talk about "truth" (never mind the fact that you have yet to substantiate any of your accusations).

We are talking about Israel. The nation. Have you figured that part out yet? Go back and read the pertinent posts if you are confused. Israel ceased to exist thousands of years ago. It's an ancient Kingdom that is long gone. In that regard - it's like a lot of ancient kingdoms that are gone but who's people remain.

This isn't rocket science dude.

You'd have nothing against the Assyrians getting their ancient Kingdom back?

I'm not sure what your point is. If they want to try and get it back - why not? Anyone has a right to try. But ancient history and kingdoms long ago gone do not automatically entitle people to modern lands over the rights of the indiginous people currently living there.

Who said it did? You're arguing from a false premise again.

I'm arguing from a "premise" others have laid out as a means of determing who has rights to an area and who doesn't. It's certainly a ridiculous one.

Israel was not the first choice for the Jews when considering a place they could live, free from persecution.

And your point?

I should be asking you what yours is.

Read the posts then. I was responding to a point another poster made.

So what is your point?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I'm arguing from a "premise" others have laid out as a means of determing who has rights to an area and who doesn't. It's certainly a ridiculous one.

If you are arguing from a ridiculous premise, then why do you pursue it with such single-minded intensity?

 

[Mindful]

You'd have nothing against the Assyrians getting their ancient Kingdom back?

I'm not sure what your point is. If they want to try and get it back - why not? Anyone has a right to try. But ancient history and kingdoms long ago gone do not automatically entitle people to modern lands over the rights of the indiginous people currently living there.

Who said it did? You're arguing from a false premise again.

I'm arguing from a "premise" others have laid out as a means of determing who has rights to an area and who doesn't. It's certainly a ridiculous one.

Israel was not the first choice for the Jews when considering a place they could live, free from persecution.

And your point?

I should be asking you what yours is.

Read the posts then. I was responding to a point another poster made.

So what is your point?

You should read the posts then.

My point...... to negate your assumption that the Jews laid claim to an ancient kingdom as an automatic right.

 

[Coyote]

I'm arguing from a "premise" others have laid out as a means of determing who has rights to an area and who doesn't. It's certainly a ridiculous one.

If you are arguing from a ridiculous premise, then why do you pursue it with such single-minded intensity?

I'm simply replying to someone using that premise - a long gone kingdom - as a justification for modern land claims. Pretty ridiculous don't you think, even though you defended it vociferously .

 

[Coyote]

I'm not sure what your point is. If they want to try and get it back - why not? Anyone has a right to try. But ancient history and kingdoms long ago gone do not automatically entitle people to modern lands over the rights of the indiginous people currently living there.

Who said it did? You're arguing from a false premise again.

I'm arguing from a "premise" others have laid out as a means of determing who has rights to an area and who doesn't. It's certainly a ridiculous one.

Israel was not the first choice for the Jews when considering a place they could live, free from persecution.

And your point?

I should be asking you what yours is.

Read the posts then. I was responding to a point another poster made.

So what is your point?

You should read the posts then.

My point...... to negate your assumption that the Jews laid claim to an ancient kingdom as an automatic right.

Then you are arguing with the wrong assumptions. Several posters here used those claims to justify Israel's current status. Read the posts. They claim that Israel has always existed. It hasn't.

So...what is your point besides the fact that you haven't been following the conversation? No wonder your comment about Assyrians made no sense.

Here is the original statement: Absolutely correct. The UN did not "create Israel." Israel has existed for thousnds of years before there was any UN. And who said Tinmore never gets it right?

 

[Mindful]

Who said it did? You're arguing from a false premise again.

I'm arguing from a "premise" others have laid out as a means of determing who has rights to an area and who doesn't. It's certainly a ridiculous one.

Israel was not the first choice for the Jews when considering a place they could live, free from persecution.

And your point?

I should be asking you what yours is.

Read the posts then. I was responding to a point another poster made.

So what is your point?

You should read the posts then.

My point...... to negate your assumption that the Jews laid claim to an ancient kingdom as an automatic right.

Then you are arguing with the wrong assumptions. Several posters here used those claims to justify Israel's current status. Read the posts. They claim that Israel has always existed. It hasn't.

So...what is your point besides the fact that you haven't been following the conversation? No wonder your comment about Assyrians made no sense.

Here is the original statement: Absolutely correct. The UN did not "create Israel." Israel has existed for thousnds of years before there was any UN. And who said Tinmore never gets it right?

I can't follow your logic. So just give it up.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I don't see any reason why they cannot live together. The division is caused by the governments. Get rid of the governments and let the people form one based on equal rights.

Problem solved.

 

[MJB12741]

I don't see any reason why they cannot live together. The division is caused by the governments. Get rid of the governments and let the people form one based on equal rights.

Problem solved.

Dream on. No way the Israeli's & Palestinians can live together in the same land with equal rights. Who determines what rights are equal??? And who determines whether the land is called Israel or Palestine??? Here alone puts your ridiculous claim to rest.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This sounds good at face value. It makes sense in a purely philosophical way. But it is not my experience that it could actually be achieved.

(2013) "Forty-six years after the 1967 war, we are facing a dangerous increase in the number of “failed states” across the Arab region."
----- ----- ----- ----- Eyad Abu Shakra (AKA: Ayad Abou-Chakra), The era of failed Arab states, al-Arabiya News​

I don't see any reason why they cannot live together. The division is caused by the governments. Get rid of the governments and let the people form one based on equal rights.

Problem solved.

(COMMENT)

There are many more Arab Palestinians in the combined area (Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip) then there are Israelis (ethnic heritage aside). It would not be the case that a combined (one-state solution) would result in a Jewish National Homeland that would eternally (or even for a century) be free of the threat of domination and subjugation by the Arab and Islamic community (especially if you count the millions that would claim the right of return).

Such a merger would eventually, if not almost immediately, place the entire way of life the Israelis have nurtured and established under the thumb of an Arab Middle Eastern culture that is at risk. In effect, they would be placing themselves in the hands of a culture that spawned more threat organizations than any other Arab or Islamic nation in the world (not counting Palestinian subset groups, affiliations and subordinate associations). No other single country has more designated terrorist organizations associated with it than the Palestinian Territories.

• Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
• Hamas (Islamic Resistance Movement)
• Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
• Islamic Jihad Group
• Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
• PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
• Army of Islam (Palestinian)
• DFLP-Hawatmeh Faction (DFLP)

Safety, security and protection aside, there is the case of the greater probability that such a combined (one-state solution) would just become another failed state. One must remember that the immediate region around the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict region is virtually surrounded by states in trouble.

(2013) There are projects, some of which are already underway, to partition and divide countries such as Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, Yemen and Libya. Other countries are not immune to internal tensions resulting from a discourse of partition and fragmentation similar to the one which has disrupted the very concept of the “state” as we knew it, thus giving rise to the so-called “failed states.”
----- ----- ----- ----- Eyad Abu Shakra (AKA: Ayad Abou-Chakra), The era of failed Arab states, al-Arabiya News
​

The Fragile State Index for 2014 illustrates just how well the surrounding states are doing. Normally, the index would show that Israel (independent of the West Bank) would be on par with Jordan, the number, when averaged with the West Bank, dragging it down. The most fragile regional states are:

• South Sudan @1
• Sudan #5
• Yemen #8
• Iraq #13
• Syria #15
• Egypt #31
• Lebanon #46
• Israel/West Bank #67
• Jordan #83
• Turkey #93
• Saudi Arabia #96
• Kuwait #127
• UAE #143
• Oman #153

Notice that regionally, Arab and Islamic States which are NOT Kingdoms, are not doing very well in comparison to the non-Kingdom States (exception is Turkey - republican parliamentary democracy --- civil law system based on various European legal systems notably the Swiss civil code; universal sufferage). If a one-state solution were to be assumed, there is no reasonable expectation that it would be any more successful that Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Yemen (the five nations that invaded Israel in 1948)(as a retired federal agent, I don't believe in 5-for-5 coincidence minus the Kingdom). And, the Arab Palestinian, when the did accept Jordanian Citizenship, did not take long to organize and insurgency against the government (past practices count for something).

It would be much better, for all concerned, if there were one successful and less fragile non-Arab state, and one failed but smaller Arab State, then to have one larger and successful state fail under the weight of Arab incompetency.

Just My Thought, Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This sounds good at face value. It makes sense in a purely philosophical way. But it is not my experience that it could actually be achieved.

(2013) "Forty-six years after the 1967 war, we are facing a dangerous increase in the number of “failed states” across the Arab region."
----- ----- ----- ----- Eyad Abu Shakra (AKA: Ayad Abou-Chakra), The era of failed Arab states, al-Arabiya News​

I don't see any reason why they cannot live together. The division is caused by the governments. Get rid of the governments and let the people form one based on equal rights.

Problem solved.

(COMMENT)

There are many more Arab Palestinians in the combined area (Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip) then there are Israelis (ethnic heritage aside). It would not be the case that a combined (one-state solution) would result in a Jewish National Homeland that would eternally (or even for a century) be free of the threat of domination and subjugation by the Arab and Islamic community (especially if you count the millions that would claim the right of return).

Such a merger would eventually, if not almost immediately, place the entire way of life the Israelis have nurtured and established under the thumb of an Arab Middle Eastern culture that is at risk. In effect, they would be placing themselves in the hands of a culture that spawned more threat organizations than any other Arab or Islamic nation in the world (not counting Palestinian subset groups, affiliations and subordinate associations). No other single country has more designated terrorist organizations associated with it than the Palestinian Territories.

• Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
• Hamas (Islamic Resistance Movement)
• Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
• Islamic Jihad Group
• Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
• PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
• Army of Islam (Palestinian)
• DFLP-Hawatmeh Faction (DFLP)

Safety, security and protection aside, there is the case of the greater probability that such a combined (one-state solution) would just become another failed state. One must remember that the immediate region around the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict region is virtually surrounded by states in trouble.

(2013) There are projects, some of which are already underway, to partition and divide countries such as Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, Yemen and Libya. Other countries are not immune to internal tensions resulting from a discourse of partition and fragmentation similar to the one which has disrupted the very concept of the “state” as we knew it, thus giving rise to the so-called “failed states.”
----- ----- ----- ----- Eyad Abu Shakra (AKA: Ayad Abou-Chakra), The era of failed Arab states, al-Arabiya News
​

The Fragile State Index for 2014 illustrates just how well the surrounding states are doing. Normally, the index would show that Israel (independent of the West Bank) would be on par with Jordan, the number, when averaged with the West Bank, dragging it down. The most fragile regional states are:

• South Sudan @1
• Sudan #5
• Yemen #8
• Iraq #13
• Syria #15
• Egypt #31
• Lebanon #46
• Israel/West Bank #67
• Jordan #83
• Turkey #93
• Saudi Arabia #96
• Kuwait #127
• UAE #143
• Oman #153

Notice that regionally, Arab and Islamic States which are NOT Kingdoms, are not doing very well in comparison to the non-Kingdom States (exception is Turkey - republican parliamentary democracy --- civil law system based on various European legal systems notably the Swiss civil code; universal sufferage). If a one-state solution were to be assumed, there is no reasonable expectation that it would be any more successful that Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Yemen (the five nations that invaded Israel in 1948)(as a retired federal agent, I don't believe in 5-for-5 coincidence minus the Kingdom). And, the Arab Palestinian, when the did accept Jordanian Citizenship, did not take long to organize and insurgency against the government (past practices count for something).

It would be much better, for all concerned, if there were one successful and less fragile non-Arab state, and one failed but smaller Arab State, then to have one larger and successful state fail under the weight of Arab incompetency.

Just My Thought, Respectfully,
R

No other single country has more designated terrorist organizations associated with it than the Palestinian Territories.​

Indeed, Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It is the general position of pro-Palestinians advocates for Jihad and Armed Struggle in violation of international Laws, the Geneva Convention and the DOP for Freindly relations, to suggest that the Hostile Arab Palestinians are clean as virgin snow --- playing the part of the victim; but, we all know this is not true.

No other single country has more designated terrorist organizations associated with it than the Palestinian Territories.

Indeed, Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.

(COMMENT)

It is what it is; trying to deny the history is unbecoming. The past history of criminal terrorist behaviors are well documented. Here is just a sample.

• Abu Nidal Organization(ANO)

o 20 countries, killing or injuring almost 900 persons. Targets include the US, the UK, France, and Israel,​

• Hamas (Islamic Resistance Movement)

o designated as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, Egypt, theEuropean Union, Israel, Japan, theUnited Kingdom, US, and is banned in Jordan.
o Suicide bombings, rocket attacks, IED attacks, kidnapping, murder, and shootings.​

• Palestine Liberation Front(PLF)
  • o hijacking of the Italian cruise ship MS Achille Lauro

• Islamic Jihad Group
  • Three people killed and eighty-three injured in a suicide bombing at a shopping mall in Afula.
  • A bomber killed 21 people and injured more than 100 people on a bus in Jerusalem.
  • A bomb killed 22 and injured 60 at a Haifa restaurant.
  • A bomb detonated in a Hadera market was responsible for killing seven people and injuring 55, five of them severely.
  • A bomb in aTel Aviv eatery killed eleven and injured 70.
  • Both the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and the PIJ claim responsibility for a suicide bombing at an Eilat bakery that killed three.

• Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine(PFLP)
  • Hijacked Lufthansa flight LH181, flying from Palma de Mallorca to Frankfurt. After various stop overs the pilot was killed. The remaining passengers and crew were eventually rescued by German counter-terrorism special forces.
  • Bus from Tel Aviv was hijacked. Bassam Abu Sharif in Damascus issued a statement in the name of the PFLP claiming responsibility.

• PFLP-General Command(PFLP-GC)

o Two Palestinian guerrillas infiltrated into Israel from South Lebanon using hang gliders to launch a surprise attack against the Israel.​

• Army of Islam(Palestinian)

o The group kidnapped the BBC correspondent Alan Johnston.
o Bombing of a Coptic church in Alexandria​

• DFLP-Hawatmeh Faction(DFLP)

o Paramilitary wing called the National Resistance Brigades. Although the National Resistance Brigades have fighters based in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.​

The list of Foreign Terrorist Groups by country can be found and counted. It is not propaganda, but just plain doing the math.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It is the general position of pro-Palestinians advocates for Jihad and Armed Struggle in violation of international Laws, the Geneva Convention and the DOP for Freindly relations, to suggest that the Hostile Arab Palestinians are clean as virgin snow --- playing the part of the victim; but, we all know this is not true.

No other single country has more designated terrorist organizations associated with it than the Palestinian Territories.

Indeed, Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.

(COMMENT)

It is what it is; trying to deny the history is unbecoming. The past history of criminal terrorist behaviors are well documented. Here is just a sample.

• Abu Nidal Organization(ANO)

o 20 countries, killing or injuring almost 900 persons. Targets include the US, the UK, France, and Israel,​

• Hamas (Islamic Resistance Movement)

o designated as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, Egypt, theEuropean Union, Israel, Japan, theUnited Kingdom, US, and is banned in Jordan.
o Suicide bombings, rocket attacks, IED attacks, kidnapping, murder, and shootings.​

• Palestine Liberation Front(PLF)
  • o hijacking of the Italian cruise ship MS Achille Lauro

• Islamic Jihad Group
  • Three people killed and eighty-three injured in a suicide bombing at a shopping mall in Afula.
  • A bomber killed 21 people and injured more than 100 people on a bus in Jerusalem.
  • A bomb killed 22 and injured 60 at a Haifa restaurant.
  • A bomb detonated in a Hadera market was responsible for killing seven people and injuring 55, five of them severely.
  • A bomb in aTel Aviv eatery killed eleven and injured 70.
  • Both the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and the PIJ claim responsibility for a suicide bombing at an Eilat bakery that killed three.

• Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine(PFLP)
  • Hijacked Lufthansa flight LH181, flying from Palma de Mallorca to Frankfurt. After various stop overs the pilot was killed. The remaining passengers and crew were eventually rescued by German counter-terrorism special forces.
  • Bus from Tel Aviv was hijacked. Bassam Abu Sharif in Damascus issued a statement in the name of the PFLP claiming responsibility.

• PFLP-General Command(PFLP-GC)

o Two Palestinian guerrillas infiltrated into Israel from South Lebanon using hang gliders to launch a surprise attack against the Israel.​

• Army of Islam(Palestinian)

o The group kidnapped the BBC correspondent Alan Johnston.
o Bombing of a Coptic church in Alexandria​

• DFLP-Hawatmeh Faction(DFLP)

o Paramilitary wing called the National Resistance Brigades. Although the National Resistance Brigades have fighters based in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.​

The list of Foreign Terrorist Groups by country can be found and counted. It is not propaganda, but just plain doing the math.

Most Respectfully,
R

Drop in the bucket compared to Israel's violations.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

What are these violations. Pick one.

Drop in the bucket compared to Israel's violations.

(COMMENT)

I don't consider the list and list and list of various attacks, and the use of rocket and mortar attacks, a drop in the bucket. I could copy and paste page upon page of international attacks perpetrated by the various Hostile Palestinian terrorist organizations, and I think everyone understands that. That is not the issue.

What is the issue is that Israel has the right to protect itself, from the threats of force and violence from the Palestinians. If that requires "occupation" then --- so be it.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

What are these violations. Pick one.

Drop in the bucket compared to Israel's violations.

(COMMENT)

I don't consider the list and list and list of various attacks, and the use of rocket and mortar attacks, a drop in the bucket. I could copy and paste page upon page of international attacks perpetrated by the various Hostile Palestinian terrorist organizations, and I think everyone understands that. That is not the issue.

What is the issue is that Israel has the right to protect itself, from the threats of force and violence from the Palestinians. If that requires "occupation" then --- so be it.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel has no right to anything. It has its fat ass parked on Palestinian land at the point of a gun.

Children killed since 2000

Israeli 131
Palestinian 1656
Remember These Children

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is two issue --- but I can handle that.

Israel has no right to anything. It has its fat ass parked on Palestinian land at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

"Palestinian Land" does not mean the same thing as "Palestinian Sovereignty." You are attempting to imply that the immigration of Jewish People to the former Ottoman Territory somehow violated some Arab Palestinian Sovereignty. That is absolutely false.

Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.

SOURCE: Part III - Treaty of Sevres

This portion of the Treaty of Sevres (1920), as subsequently validated by the Treaty of Lausanne [Part I --- Article 3(1) Syria], relinquishes the authority over that territory to the Allied Powers; not the indigenous population (today called the Palestinians). At no time, during the last millennium, was the territory sovereign under Arab self-government of any sort until they were released by the Allied Powers from the associated Mandates. It was the Allied Powers that decided to open immigration to the Jewish People, willing to work for the establishment of the Jewish National Home. In 1948, the Jewish Agency, established under the authority and recognition of the Mandatory, having completed the prerequisite "Steps Preparatory to Independence," exercised self-determination and declared Independence. The newly formed state (Israel) immediately was besieged by military elements - representing seven Arab States (Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen); and additional Arab irregular forces (including the Arab Liberation Army, the Holy War Army, and volunteers from the Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen, Pakistan, and the Sudan). Arab Forces were repelled and ultimately a set of Armistice Line were established.

The UN considered the Independence successfully defended and in 1949 --- decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations. Now if you want to call that: "parked on Palestinian land at the point of a gun;" then --- let it be so. Just as long as we all understand what that phase actually means in terms of historical facts.

Children killed since 2000

• Israeli 131
• Palestinian 1656
• Remember These Children

(Historical Reminder of Events Since 2000)
List of wars involving Israel From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Second Intifada (2000–2005) - Second Palestinian uprising, a period of intensified violence, which began in late September 2000.

2006 Lebanon War (summer 2006) - Began as a military operation in response to the abduction of two Israeli reserve soldiers by the Hezbollah. The operation gradually strengthened, to become a wider confrontation. The principal participants were Hezbollah paramilitary forces and the Israeli military. The conflict started on 12 July 2006 and continued until a United Nations-brokered ceasefire went into effect on 14 August 2006, though it formally ended on 8 September 2006, when Israel lifted its naval blockade of Lebanon. The war resulted in the pacification of southern Lebanon and in the weakness of the Hezbollah (which suffered serious casualties but managed to survive the Israeli onslaught).

Gaza War (December 2008 - January 2009) - Three-week armed conflict between Israel and Hamas during the winter of 2008–2009. In an escalation of the ongoing Israeli–Palestinian conflict, Israel responded to ongoing rocket fire from the Gaza Strip with military force in an action titled "Operation Cast Lead". Israel opened the attack with a surprise air strike on December 27, 2008. Israel's stated aim was to stop such rocket fire from and the import of arms into Gaza. Israeli forces attacked military and civilian targets, police stations, and government buildings in the opening assault. Israel declared an end to the conflict on January 18 and completed its withdrawal on January 21, 2009.

Operation Pillar of Defense (November 2012) - Military offensive on the Gaza Strip.

Operation Protective Edge (July 2014) - Military offensive on the Gaza Strip as a response to the collapse of American-sponsored peace talks, attempts by rival Palestinian factions to form a coalition government, the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers, the subsequent kidnapping and murder of a Palestinian teenager, and increased rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas militants.​

(COMMENT)

HAMAS’ strategy involves forcing Gaza’s civilians to serve as human shields. The terrorist organization deliberately places Palestinians in the line of fire in order to exploit civilian casualties in the international arena.

• Rule 97. The use of human shields is prohibited. ICRC Customary IHL

From the beginning of 2014 until the start of Operation Protective Edge, Palestinian terrorists in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip fired 450 rockets at Israel. Millions of Israelis were living under fire.

• Rule 12. Indiscriminate attacks are those: ICRC Customary IHL

(a) which are not directed at a specific military objective;
(b) which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or
(c) which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by international humanitarian law;and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.​

HAMAS’ vast underground tunnel network in Gaza enabled the terrorist group to infiltrate Israel and ambush civilians and IDF soldiers. Eliminating this threat was a primary objective of Operation Protective Edge.

• A/RES/25/2625 Codification of the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and co-operation among States.

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.​

• Rule 20. Advance Warning ICRC Customary IHL

Each party to the conflict must give effective advance warning of attacks which may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not permit.

Hamas Violations:

 Ibrahim Khreisheh, Palestinian Authority envoy to UNHRC, admitted in a TV interview that Hamas “never warn anyone about where these missiles are about to fall, or about the operation [Hamas] carr[ies] out.”​

• Rule 22. Principle of Precautions against the Effects of Attacks ICRC Customary IHL

The parties to the conflict must take all feasible precautions to protect the civilian population and civilian objects under their control against the effects of attacks.

Hamas Violations:

 CNN reported that ten percent of Hamas rockets fired at Israel fall short and land in Gaza, causing damage.

 The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) said they found rockets hidden by Hamas in a vacant school, in between two other UNRWA schools used to host 1,500 displaced civilians.

 The IDF released aerial photos of rocket launch sites inside Shijaiyeh, purportedly showing that Hamas launched rockets from inside and around a mosque, a hospital, a children’s playground, and a cemetery. Another video released by the IDF showed rocket launchers, some still holding rockets ready to be fired, next to an agricultural school in Beit Hanoun.

 Upon learning that Hamas had stored rockets in an UNRWA school, the spokesman for UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement that “Those responsible are turning schools into potential military targets, and endangering the lives of innocent children,” UN staff, and anyone seeking shelter.

 Hamas’s Interior Ministry published an order that residents of Gaza ignore Israel’s warnings of imminent air strikes and remain in their houses. Israel’s policy of warning is intended to give civilians time to flee and seek shelter.

 On three separate occasions during Operation Protective Edge, it was discovered that Hamas rockets were stored in UNRWA schools.

 UNRWA confirmed that Hamas fired into the Beit Hanoun area in northern Gaza where, on July 24, 2014, an UNRWA school was hit. According to Gaza sources, an estimated 17 children and UN personnel were killed, and 200 others wounded.

 UNRWA schools have reportedly been used as launching pads for mortar attacks.

 A senior UN official, John Ging, confirmed that Hamas terrorists "are firing their rockets into Israel from the vicinity of UN facilities and residential areas," thereby putting UNRWA staff and students in harm's way and using Gaza’s civilians as human shields.

According to the IDF, Hamas has booby-trapped hundreds of civilian houses in Gaza. The IDF translated and published the contents of a Hamas bomb-making manual captured during Operation Protective Edge, which recommends “teaching civilians how to build and store bombs in their homes.”

SOURCE: HAMAS’S VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW The Lawfare Project​

All of this contributes to the casualty reports. The fact of the matter is that HAMAS, and to some degree the general population itself, demonstrate a callous disregard for Human Life and a depraved indifference for whim might become a casualty when initiating a conflict. Wars are inherently dangerous. And the Palestinians are mentally capable of understanding the consequences of provoking a conflict.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Palestinian Land" does not mean the same thing as "Palestinian Sovereignty." You are attempting to imply that the immigration of Jewish People to the former Ottoman Territory somehow violated some Arab Palestinian Sovereignty. That is absolutely false.

No matter how much happy horseshit you shovel onto the facts do not change the facts.

A peoples rights are inherent and inalienable. The Palestinian's right to exercise their sovereignty was denied to them by illegal external interference.

The rest of your crapola is merely propaganda.