Who Are The Palestinians?

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

Their point of departure is of no consequence.

montelatici, et al,

European settlers did not take ANY LAND.

(COMMENT)

The Jewish immigrants under the Mandate, completed the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as adopted by the General Assembly; --- and exercising their right to self determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

But, they came from another continent and did evict the local inhabitants through violent conquest. They certainly have a right to self determination, but not at the expense of the people already living in the area on another continent. It's like saying the Treaty of Tordesillas had any legal validity.

(COMMENT)

The same body that wrote all the other international laws, determined the solution. It was a basic objective in the original Mandate. It fulfilled the goal of establishing a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian rejected participation in the process that ultimately created the conditions that allowed the establishment of the State of Israel.

The decisions and path the Arab Palestinian took, the path that they embraced --- Jihad and Armed Struggle --- was the means of solving international disputes they chose; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

The Arab Palestinian, as a matter of publish Policy objected to settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice IAW the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where in the treaties or in the mandate did anyone call for an exclusive Jewish state?

Israel is in Palestine. Where is the international dispute?

Israel is in Palestine? Where do you come up with this garbage?
Show me a legit map showing Israel inside of Palestine.

Thats a map of the partition plan with proposed boundaries. Also, that is not a map of Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

Their point of departure is of no consequence.

But, they came from another continent and did evict the local inhabitants through violent conquest. They certainly have a right to self determination, but not at the expense of the people already living in the area on another continent. It's like saying the Treaty of Tordesillas had any legal validity.

(COMMENT)

The same body that wrote all the other international laws, determined the solution. It was a basic objective in the original Mandate. It fulfilled the goal of establishing a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian rejected participation in the process that ultimately created the conditions that allowed the establishment of the State of Israel.

The decisions and path the Arab Palestinian took, the path that they embraced --- Jihad and Armed Struggle --- was the means of solving international disputes they chose; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

The Arab Palestinian, as a matter of publish Policy objected to settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice IAW the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where in the treaties or in the mandate did anyone call for an exclusive Jewish state?

Israel is in Palestine. Where is the international dispute?

Israel is in Palestine? Where do you come up with this garbage?
Show me a legit map showing Israel inside of Palestine.

There are no legitimate maps. (At least not in the "west") They are all political. Even the UN map of Israel has a disclaimer on legitimacy.[/QUOTE
Translation: i don't have a map to back up my lie so I come up with this ridiculous claim.

What UN map are you talking about? The map of Israel on the UN page clearly shows Israel inside her international borders. Yet I can never find Palestine inside her 'borders'

You're wrong. Again.

Look at the disclaimer on the bottom.

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

Their point of departure is of no consequence.

But, they came from another continent and did evict the local inhabitants through violent conquest. They certainly have a right to self determination, but not at the expense of the people already living in the area on another continent. It's like saying the Treaty of Tordesillas had any legal validity.

(COMMENT)

The same body that wrote all the other international laws, determined the solution. It was a basic objective in the original Mandate. It fulfilled the goal of establishing a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian rejected participation in the process that ultimately created the conditions that allowed the establishment of the State of Israel.

The decisions and path the Arab Palestinian took, the path that they embraced --- Jihad and Armed Struggle --- was the means of solving international disputes they chose; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

The Arab Palestinian, as a matter of publish Policy objected to settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice IAW the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where in the treaties or in the mandate did anyone call for an exclusive Jewish state?

Israel is in Palestine. Where is the international dispute?

Israel is in Palestine? Where do you come up with this garbage?
Show me a legit map showing Israel inside of Palestine.

Look up "International Boundaries" in the legend then find them on the map.

That is a map with PROPOSED borders.

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

Their point of departure is of no consequence.

(COMMENT)

The same body that wrote all the other international laws, determined the solution. It was a basic objective in the original Mandate. It fulfilled the goal of establishing a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian rejected participation in the process that ultimately created the conditions that allowed the establishment of the State of Israel.

The decisions and path the Arab Palestinian took, the path that they embraced --- Jihad and Armed Struggle --- was the means of solving international disputes they chose; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

The Arab Palestinian, as a matter of publish Policy objected to settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice IAW the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where in the treaties or in the mandate did anyone call for an exclusive Jewish state?

Israel is in Palestine. Where is the international dispute?

Israel is in Palestine? Where do you come up with this garbage?
Show me a legit map showing Israel inside of Palestine.

There are no legitimate maps. (At least not in the "west") They are all political. Even the UN map of Israel has a disclaimer on legitimacy.[/QUOTE
Translation: i don't have a map to back up my lie so I come up with this ridiculous claim.

What UN map are you talking about? The map of Israel on the UN page clearly shows Israel inside her international borders. Yet I can never find Palestine inside her 'borders'

You're wrong. Again.

Look at the disclaimer on the bottom.

What does the disclaimer have to do with anything?

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I've seen this before.

montelatici, et al,

Their point of departure is of no consequence.

(COMMENT)

The same body that wrote all the other international laws, determined the solution. It was a basic objective in the original Mandate. It fulfilled the goal of establishing a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian rejected participation in the process that ultimately created the conditions that allowed the establishment of the State of Israel.

The decisions and path the Arab Palestinian took, the path that they embraced --- Jihad and Armed Struggle --- was the means of solving international disputes they chose; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

The Arab Palestinian, as a matter of publish Policy objected to settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice IAW the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where in the treaties or in the mandate did anyone call for an exclusive Jewish state?

Israel is in Palestine. Where is the international dispute?

(COMMENT)

Nothing until the UNSCOP Recommendation adopted by the General Assembly calls for an exclusive state. However, nothing prohibited it either; as a possible solution.

Israel is in the territory former under the Mandate for Palestine.

The UN says: 4. Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfils the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders; 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations

The international dispute is as previously stated.

The decisions and path the Arab Palestinian took, the path that they embraced --- Jihad and Armed Struggle --- was the means of solving international disputes they chose; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

The Arab Palestinian, as a matter of publish Policy objected to settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice IAW the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.​

Most Respectfully,
R

WOW, the UN contradicts itself in several places in this resolution.

A RES 67 19 of 4 December 2012

And you have not shown me where this applies to I/P.

A RES 25 2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations - UN Documents Gathering a body of global agreements

Did you miss the part where Rocco clearly showed you where the dispute is?

I didn't miss it. It is not there.

Open your eyes

 

[montelatici]

Well, it was the map for the UN partition. I don't know what more you want.

 

[toastman]

Well, it was the map for the UN partition. I don't know what more you want.

I asked Tinmore for something that doesn't exist .

 

[montelatici]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Don't ya'll just love it, how Monty tries to portray Palestinian Christians as lumped-in with Palestinian Muslims?

Who said anything about eliminating?

I think you are forgetting what you wrote.

I wrote:

They were able to eliminate the local people as a demographic threat from North to South America.

You wrote:

Which us exactly what Israel will do, for as long as they are threatened by them.

Oh, eliminate as a threat. I thought you meant eliminate as in kill. Never mind then

The Christian Palestinians may leave eventually, as they have the means and the support of Christians throughout the world, but the Muslim Palestinians will not and they will resist until,, and if, they are literally eliminated. That the same situation the French in Algeria found themselves in, and Algeria was a part of France. The colons immigration and their birthrate was not sufficient to overcome the local demographics and by 1962 after over a hundred years the French had to leave. Had they negotiated and compromised earlier, perhaps they could have remained. You know the story in Rhodesia and South Africa.

They will resist until they've been evicted, anyway...

If the Israeli Jews manage to eliminate and/or evict the non-Jews and maintain a Jewish demographic advantage for the long term, then it will become like the Americas, Australia etc. But, it will be difficult given the fact that within and around the Jewish state the non-Jews outnumber the Jews more than the non-whites outnumbered the whites in South Africa, and Rhodesia or the the non-Europeans in Algeria. But, anything is possible..

As far as the Christian Palestinians they lump themselves in, they do have that right.

Great post, thanks.

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

Their point of departure is of no consequence.

But, they came from another continent and did evict the local inhabitants through violent conquest. They certainly have a right to self determination, but not at the expense of the people already living in the area on another continent. It's like saying the Treaty of Tordesillas had any legal validity.

(COMMENT)

The same body that wrote all the other international laws, determined the solution. It was a basic objective in the original Mandate. It fulfilled the goal of establishing a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian rejected participation in the process that ultimately created the conditions that allowed the establishment of the State of Israel.

The decisions and path the Arab Palestinian took, the path that they embraced --- Jihad and Armed Struggle --- was the means of solving international disputes they chose; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

The Arab Palestinian, as a matter of publish Policy objected to settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice IAW the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where in the treaties or in the mandate did anyone call for an exclusive Jewish state?

Israel is in Palestine. Where is the international dispute?

Israel is in Palestine? Where do you come up with this garbage?
Show me a legit map showing Israel inside of Palestine.

Thats a map of the partition plan with proposed boundaries. Also, that is not a map of Israel.

The international boundaries are not proposed. Only the partition lines are proposed.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I've seen this before.

Where in the treaties or in the mandate did anyone call for an exclusive Jewish state?

Israel is in Palestine. Where is the international dispute?

(COMMENT)

Nothing until the UNSCOP Recommendation adopted by the General Assembly calls for an exclusive state. However, nothing prohibited it either; as a possible solution.

Israel is in the territory former under the Mandate for Palestine.

The UN says: 4. Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfils the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders; 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations

The international dispute is as previously stated.

The decisions and path the Arab Palestinian took, the path that they embraced --- Jihad and Armed Struggle --- was the means of solving international disputes they chose; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

The Arab Palestinian, as a matter of publish Policy objected to settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice IAW the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.​

Most Respectfully,
R

WOW, the UN contradicts itself in several places in this resolution.

A RES 67 19 of 4 December 2012

And you have not shown me where this applies to I/P.

A RES 25 2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations - UN Documents Gathering a body of global agreements

Did you miss the part where Rocco clearly showed you where the dispute is?

I didn't miss it. It is not there.

Open your eyes

Then quote the passage.

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

Their point of departure is of no consequence.

(COMMENT)

The same body that wrote all the other international laws, determined the solution. It was a basic objective in the original Mandate. It fulfilled the goal of establishing a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian rejected participation in the process that ultimately created the conditions that allowed the establishment of the State of Israel.

The decisions and path the Arab Palestinian took, the path that they embraced --- Jihad and Armed Struggle --- was the means of solving international disputes they chose; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

The Arab Palestinian, as a matter of publish Policy objected to settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice IAW the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where in the treaties or in the mandate did anyone call for an exclusive Jewish state?

Israel is in Palestine. Where is the international dispute?

Israel is in Palestine? Where do you come up with this garbage?
Show me a legit map showing Israel inside of Palestine.

Thats a map of the partition plan with proposed boundaries. Also, that is not a map of Israel.

The international boundaries are not proposed. Only the partition lines are proposed.

Palestine does not have international boundaries.
If it did, then why can't you come up with a map that doesn't say partition plan?

 

[aris2chat]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you need to be more specific than that.

Little Pumpkin, there's just no reason for me to answer to your fact regarding European colonization... your "fact" is simply not relevant to the point I made.

It is literally irrelevant to the situation. Israel was a recognized nation, it was invaded, certain Israelis sided with the invaders, and the invaders lost. Those are facts not in dispute.

I refuse to be drawn into your retarded rationalizations regarding who chucked the first rock at whom so many generations in the past. Such stories from both sides are full of lies, and the lies weigh equally against each other. Peddle your dopey crusade to someone who will share in your mawkish outrage--I'm not a buyer.

But if you want to dispute the conclusions drawn from the indisputable facts presented, I'm an eager audience. But if you're just going to catalog all the crimes you perceive that were committed against your preferred people, then I'm telling you now I will not be persuaded by such bullshit emotional manipulations.

The indisputable fact is that Europeans went to another continent, expelled the people living there and created a nation.

Ancient history. The fact is that MOST lands were taken over by one group or another.

That is true. However, about a hundred years ago or so conquest became illegal.

Israel came in late in that game.

(COMMENT)

What has Israeli taken by conquest?

What the law actually says is:

• 
  Article 5 A/RES/3314(XXIX)
  14 December 1974

• 
  1. No consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may serve as a justification for aggression.
  
  2. A war of aggression is a crime against international peace. Aggression gives rise to international responsibility.
  
  3. No territorial acquisition or special advantage resulting from aggression is or shall be recognized as lawful.

This is basically a restatement of UN Charter, Article 2's proscriptions which has been interpreted as to mean that it prohibits the acquisition of territory by war; and of UN Security Council Resolution 242, which states "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war."

However, the West Bank and Gaza Strip were territories in which the parties to the conflict have entered into Peace Treaties. Israel did not take any territory from the Palestinians by either war or aggression.

Most Respectfully,
R

Yes, and let's be honest. The only reason why there is a Palestine is because of the Arabs who hated the idea of sharing ANY of their land with the hated Jews. Palestine was specifically designed to be a thorn in the side of Israel, I think that much is clear.

first they say they do and then they don't, then they say they will and then they won't

they deny the chance for a palestine, pay for war after war against Israel, try to make peace and then give up on the process because of hamas...............

 

[P F Tinmore]

Well, it was the map for the UN partition. I don't know what more you want.

I asked Tinmore for something that doesn't exist .

 

[Hossfly]

montelatici, et al,

Their point of departure is of no consequence.

montelatici, et al,

European settlers did not take ANY LAND.

(COMMENT)

The Jewish immigrants under the Mandate, completed the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" as adopted by the General Assembly; --- and exercising their right to self determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

But, they came from another continent and did evict the local inhabitants through violent conquest. They certainly have a right to self determination, but not at the expense of the people already living in the area on another continent. It's like saying the Treaty of Tordesillas had any legal validity.

(COMMENT)

The same body that wrote all the other international laws, determined the solution. It was a basic objective in the original Mandate. It fulfilled the goal of establishing a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian rejected participation in the process that ultimately created the conditions that allowed the establishment of the State of Israel.

The decisions and path the Arab Palestinian took, the path that they embraced --- Jihad and Armed Struggle --- was the means of solving international disputes they chose; including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

The Arab Palestinian, as a matter of publish Policy objected to settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice IAW the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where in the treaties or in the mandate did anyone call for an exclusive Jewish state?

Israel is in Palestine. Where is the international dispute?

Tinmore, you're pissin' me off.

Really Hoss.....totally uncalled for...steve

No it's not.Tinmore has been corrected on this a hundred times and he still persists.

 

[aris2chat]

You know the movement is in trouble when 90% of the gazans want to leave because of hamas. They should have tried to make peace when they had the chance.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[toastman]

Well, it was the map for the UN partition. I don't know what more you want.

I asked Tinmore for something that doesn't exist .

That's what I thought. You got nothing as usual

 

[Phoenall]

50 years or so is not the definition of ancient. The fact is that when lands are taken over by colonizers, the colonizers must achieve demographic advantage, or else eventually they are either forced to blend in or are forced to leave. Algeria, Rhodesia, South Africa.

.........Algeria, Rhodesia, South Africa.........."Palestine".........Fixed that for ya.

Well, yes, you are right, the European colonizers of Palestine will end up in the same position as the European colonizers of Algeria, Rhodesia, and South Africa. Thanks.

You wish, but when even your own brothers are against you what chance do the Palestinians have. If they win the day the other Islamic nations will destroy them in a very short time.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No, I don't think that is correct.

The international boundaries are not proposed. Only the partition lines are proposed.

(COMMENT)

First, it is a moot point because the later conflicts, ending with a Peace Treaty, set the international boundaries.

Second --- the Partition Plan [GA/RES/181(II)] set the boundaries initially:

• Part I --- Section A: 3. Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of this plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in parts II and III below.
• Part I --- Section B: 3. On its arrival in Palestine the Commission shall proceed to carry out measures for the establishment of the frontiers of the Arab and Jewish States and the City of Jerusalem in accordance with the general lines of the recommendations of the General Assembly on the partition of Palestine. Nevertheless, the boundaries as described in part II of this plan are to be modified in such a way that village areas as a rule will not be divided by state boundaries unless pressing reasons make that necessary.
• Part II --- Section A -- B -- Boundaries for: The Arab State, The Jewish State
• End Note 5/ The boundary lines described in part II are indicated in Annex A. The base map used in marking and describing this boundary is "Palestine 1:250000" published by the Survey of Palestine, 1946.

WOW, the UN contradicts itself in several places in this resolution.

A RES 67 19 of 4 December 2012

And you have not shown me where this applies to I/P.

A RES 25 2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations - UN Documents Gathering a body of global agreements

(COMMENT)

The applicability of Resolution 2625 (XXV) of 24 October 1970, by which it affirmed, inter alia, the duty of every State to promote through joint and separate action the realization of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, is noted and applied in the Status of Palestine in the United Nations (A/67/L.28
26 November 2012) and the companion resolution --- A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012.

Contradictions noted in the Resolution [URL='http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/a06f2943c226015c85256c40005d359c/19862d03c564fa2c85257acb004ee69b?OpenDocument']A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012[/URL] are subjective (reading more into it than is actually there).

"Sixty-five years ago on this day, the United Nations General Assembly adopted resolution 181, which partitioned the land of historic Palestine into two states and became the birth certificate for Israel," Abbas told the 193-nation assembly after receiving a standing ovation.

"The General Assembly is called upon today to issue a birth certificate of the reality of the State of Palestine," he said.
.......................................................................................................................................... --- Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas​

The 193-nation U.N. General Assembly on Thursday overwhelmingly approved the de facto recognition of a sovereign Palestinian state after Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called on the world body to issue its long overdue "birth certificate."
.......................................................................................................................................... --- Reuters Palestinians win implicit U.N. recognition of sovereign state
​

It is accepted as the essential key --- documenting the recognition.

Most Respectfully,
R