Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The Plan
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I'm not sure where you get that from.

So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?

(COMMENT)

IF you reread Posting #19182, you will THEN see that I made a different point:

But actually, the foreign militaries of the Arab League were actually the aggressors that originally used armed force to deprive peoples of their right to self-determination, and placed under the territory (which included the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip) under the authority of Arab League Armed Forces.​

Most Respectfully,
R

Is that a yes, no, or duck?

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The Plan
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I'm not sure where you get that from.

So, did Israel win Jerusalem in a defensive war with the UN?

(COMMENT)

IF you reread Posting #19182, you will THEN see that I made a different point:

But actually, the foreign militaries of the Arab League were actually the aggressors that originally used armed force to deprive peoples of their right to self-determination, and placed under the territory (which included the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip) under the authority of Arab League Armed Forces.​

Most Respectfully,
R

Is that a yes, no, or duck?

Are you confused, misunderstanding or not paying attention?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status of Jerusalem
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

(REFERENCE)

On 31 JULY 1988 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank (Including Jerusalem).
SOURCE: Disengagement from the West Bank

Is that a yes, no, or duck?

(COMMENT)

ANSWER: No.

The total control of Jerusalem as Occupied Territory under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, came when Jordan abandon it and there was no other political entity able to extend sovereignty.

Jerusalem was NOT 'won' by any action → but was politically abandon by the Arabs political entities. Up to that point, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Jerusalem had Jordanian citizenship and representation (50% of the seats) in the → Jordanian Parliament.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status of Jerusalem
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

(REFERENCE)

​

On 31 JULY 1988 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank (Including Jerusalem).

SOURCE: Disengagement from the West Bank​

Is that a yes, no, or duck?

(COMMENT)

ANSWER: No.

The total control of Jerusalem as Occupied Territory under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, came when Jordan abandon it and there was no other political entity able to extend sovereignty.

Jerusalem was NOT 'won' by any action → but was politically abandon by the Arabs political entities. Up to that point, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Jerusalem had Jordanian citizenship and representation (50% of the seats) in the → Jordanian Parliament.

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.

The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.

 

[Hollie]

In the alternate reality of islamic terrorist franchises, the Pally's missed another opportunity.

Top Hamas terrorist disqualified from Palestinian election | The Jerusalem Post

Ruled out for not appearing on the commission's final voter registry.

www.jpost.com

The Palestinian Central Elections Commission has rejected the candidacy of a senior Hamas terrorist who is serving 46 consecutive life sentences and another 30 years in Israeli prison for directing three mass-casualty attacks in Israel.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status of Jerusalem
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

(REFERENCE)

​

On 31 JULY 1988 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank (Including Jerusalem).

SOURCE: Disengagement from the West Bank​

Is that a yes, no, or duck?

(COMMENT)

ANSWER: No.

The total control of Jerusalem as Occupied Territory under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, came when Jordan abandon it and there was no other political entity able to extend sovereignty.

Jerusalem was NOT 'won' by any action → but was politically abandon by the Arabs political entities. Up to that point, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Jerusalem had Jordanian citizenship and representation (50% of the seats) in the → Jordanian Parliament.

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.

The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.

The legal rulings coming out of your madrassah are a hoot.

 

[Hollie]

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians (Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli) to assume language for this position, and adopt the "ostrich effect" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen. Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation. That did not change the reality of it actually happening.

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.

(REFERENCE)

​

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

SOURCE: Excerpt: Unification of the Two Banks​

​

SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING

It was so agreed.​

​

Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​

SOURCE: A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950​

​

Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.

SOURCE: Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51 9 October 1950​

(COMMENT)

I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen. AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians (Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli) to assume language for this position, and adopt the "ostrich effect" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen. Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation. That did not change the reality of it actually happening.

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.

(REFERENCE)

​

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

SOURCE: Excerpt: Unification of the Two Banks​

​

SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING

It was so agreed.​

​

Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​

SOURCE: A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950​

​

Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.

SOURCE: Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51 9 October 1950​

(COMMENT)

I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen. AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.

Most Respectfully,
R

It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.

BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians (Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli) to assume language for this position, and adopt the "ostrich effect" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen. Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation. That did not change the reality of it actually happening.

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.

(REFERENCE)

​

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

SOURCE: Excerpt: Unification of the Two Banks​

​

SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING

It was so agreed.​

​

Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​

SOURCE: A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950​

​

Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.

SOURCE: Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51 9 October 1950​

(COMMENT)

I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen. AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.

Most Respectfully,
R

It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.

BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.

Jordan never lost the territory, All of this this has been explained to you how many times now?

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians (Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli) to assume language for this position, and adopt the "ostrich effect" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen. Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation. That did not change the reality of it actually happening.

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.

(REFERENCE)

​

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

SOURCE: Excerpt: Unification of the Two Banks​

​

SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING

It was so agreed.​

​

Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​

SOURCE: A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950​

​

Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.

SOURCE: Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51 9 October 1950​

(COMMENT)

I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen. AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.

Most Respectfully,
R

It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.

BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.

There was never any “Pally territory”.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians (Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli) to assume language for this position, and adopt the "ostrich effect" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen. Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation. That did not change the reality of it actually happening.

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.

(REFERENCE)

​

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

SOURCE: Excerpt: Unification of the Two Banks​

​

SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING

It was so agreed.​

​

Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​

SOURCE: A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950​

​

Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.

SOURCE: Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51 9 October 1950​

(COMMENT)

I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen. AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.

Most Respectfully,
R

It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.

BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.

There was never any “Pally territory”.

There was never any “Pally territory”.

From Rocco's post.

Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom.​

 

[P F Tinmore]

Prof. Susan M. Akram on the USA PATRIOT Act (recorded on 2001 Nov 10)​

 

[ClaireH]

I'm pretty amazed the true original land dwellers, the Phillistines, don't rise up to reclaim their lands! Are they Syrians now, or Jordanian, or ?

I used to joke about this (in a non-offensive manner) about people starting a movement claiming to be first Canaanites (from Crete) who sought ownership of lands owned by their ancestors in 12th C. B.C.E. I can do silly well and enjoy the heck out of it.

What tribes were there prior to 12th C.B.C recorded by historical records? Will more information be forthcoming about previous peoples with archaeological discoveries in ME?

"The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath."Philistine" comes from the Hebrew word Philistia, and the Greek rendering of the name, palaistinei, gives us the modern name "Palestine."

I admit to not reading over the 1000 plus pages on this thread prior to asking my question, so if this has already been discussed my apologies

 

[Rigby5]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians (Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli) to assume language for this position, and adopt the "ostrich effect" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen. Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation. That did not change the reality of it actually happening.

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.

(REFERENCE)

​

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

SOURCE: Excerpt: Unification of the Two Banks​

​

SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING

It was so agreed.​

​

Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​

SOURCE: A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950​

​

Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.

SOURCE: Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51 9 October 1950​

(COMMENT)

I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen. AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.

Most Respectfully,
R

It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.

BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.

There was never any “Pally territory”.

Wrong.
The ONLY legal documents concerning Palestine or Israel are the Treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres in 1920, both of which affirm global recognition of Palestine, and that Jews were not to have any sovereignty at all.

Israel was not legally created in 1948 by the UN, because the UN did not have that authority.

 

[Rigby5]

I'm pretty amazed the true original land dwellers, the Phillistines, don't rise up to reclaim their lands! Are they Syrians now, or Jordanian, or ?

I used to joke about this (in a non-offensive manner) about people starting a movement claiming to be first Canaanites (from Crete) who sought ownership of lands owned by their ancestors in 12th C. B.C.E. I can do silly well and enjoy the heck out of it.

What tribes were there prior to 12th C.B.C recorded by historical records? Will more information be forthcoming about previous peoples with archaeological discoveries in ME?

"The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath."Philistine" comes from the Hebrew word Philistia, and the Greek rendering of the name, palaistinei, gives us the modern name "Palestine."

I admit to not reading over the 1000 plus pages on this thread prior to asking my question, so if this has already been discussed my apologies

Wrong.
The Canaanites were not at all from Crete.
The Canaanites were Semitic, meaning Arab, and were in Jericho over 7000 years ago, so predate the Minoans on Crete, by at least several thousand years.
And the Philistines were not the original Palestinians or the only Palestinians.
Besides Canaanites, there were/are Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Urites, Amorites, etc.
The Philistines only inhabited about half of Gaza, and not much else.
But since they were prolific sailors, along with the Phoenicians, they were the source of the name Palestine, for the coast line.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom.

Territory of Arab Palestine? Not country of Arab Palestine?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel was not legally created in 1948 by the UN, because the UN did not have that authority.

Who told you the UN created Israel?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom.

Territory of Arab Palestine? Not country of Arab Palestine?

So?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom.

Territory of Arab Palestine? Not country of Arab Palestine?

So?

So, not a country. Never a country.