Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[P F Tinmore]

Muslim woman ‘escorted off’ American Airlines flight​

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: It does not matter who recognized what or when. The fact of the matter is that Jordan Annexed the West Bank and Jordan.

◈ So says Jordan.​

In their official history.​

​

◈ So says the UN.​

UN Conciliation Commission.​

BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.

(COMMENT)

This is, in my opinion, the Armistice Agreement between Israel and Jordan did not address the issue of national borders or boundaries. All it said was:

"The basic purpose of the Armistice Demarcation Lines is to delineate the lines beyond which the armed forces of the respective Parties shall not move." [Article IV (2)]​

"The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto." [Article VI (9)]​

One of the problems in understanding what happened and the status of the Disputed Territory in Palestine (DTP) is that periodically the direction and policies of the external influences alter the descriptions and purposes of any previous decisions to fit their perception at any given time and de facto political agenda.

Today, everyone knows that there are no actual specific International Laws that actually cover the conditions and address the facts on the DTP.

Although the general perception is that the 1967 Conflict was a separate and distinct "war" [non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)] it is not. It is an extension of the 1949 Arab League unilateral intervention [International Armed Conflict (AIC)] (AIC 'vs' NIAC) which had the outcome of long-term occupations.

Although the general perception is that Israel is an external influence that prevented the Arab Palestinians from exercising their Right of Self-Determination in the DTP, it was the UN that disallowed the voice of the West Bank Arab Palestinians from exercising the Right of Self-Determination as did the Arab League (principally Jordan and Egypt) that prevented functional autonomous governments from developing. It was the Arab League that installed the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.

Everything is an adaptation.

BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.

(COMMENT)

This is probably true. It certainly is not to Israel's advantage to concede to such an interpretation. The misrepresentation of that fact (the Green Line is some sort of border) for more than half a century has left to the persistent demand by the PLO/Palestinian Authority/Palestinian State for the proper boundary in a two-state solution → it should be based on pre-June 4th 1967 Armistice Line.

The Goal Posts on these issues have moved so many times, no authority is really sure where they are at.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians (Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli) to assume language for this position, and adopt the "ostrich effect" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen. Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation. That did not change the reality of it actually happening.

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.

(REFERENCE)

​

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

SOURCE: Excerpt: Unification of the Two Banks​

​

SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING

It was so agreed.​

​

Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​

SOURCE: A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950​

​

Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.

SOURCE: Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51 9 October 1950​

(COMMENT)

I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen. AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.

Most Respectfully,
R

It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.

BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.

There was never any “Pally territory”.

There was never any “Pally territory”.

From Rocco's post.

Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom.​

The reference is to territory. Nothing about your mythical ''new states''.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: It is very convenient for the Arab Palestinians (Hostile, Passive, contributor, and pro-anti-Israeli) to assume language for this position, and adopt the "ostrich effect" by burying their head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen. Yes, many times the international community was asked not to recognize the annexation. That did not change the reality of it actually happening.

Jordan had control of the West Bank but it had no sovereignty.
The people of the place have sovereignty. Governments and states are the product of sovereignty not prerequisites.

(REFERENCE)

​

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

SOURCE: Excerpt: Unification of the Two Banks​

​

SUMMARY RECORD OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-EIGHTH MEETING

It was so agreed.​

​

Mr. de BOISANGER (France) recalled the announcement in the press of a statement made to Parliament by the United Kingdom Government, defining the attitude adopted in London towards Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan following the decision taken by the Parliament of the latter country to annex the territory of Arab Palestine to the Hashemite Kingdom. He thought that although the full text of the statement by the United Kingdom Government’s spokesman was not yet to hand, the change in question would seem likely to encourage the other Arab States to negotiate with Israel.​

SOURCE: A/AC.25/SR.148. 28 April 1950​

​

Regardless of the reservations contained in the Armistice Agreements on the temporary character of the Armistice lines, it is certain that with the simple passage of time these lines are increasingly acquiring the validity and permanence of formal frontiers. This natural process is inevitable and has been considerably assisted by the two following events whose profound significance need not be underlined; the annexation of the greater part of Arab Palestine by Jordan, and the guarantee given to the Armistice lines by the Governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and France.

SOURCE: Section III The Territorial Question • Paragraph 4 • A/AC.25/W/51 9 October 1950​

(COMMENT)

I'm not saying that the UN or the membership was happy about it, the fact of the matter, it did happen. AND it is a bell that cannot be unrung.

Most Respectfully,
R

It was illegal for Jordan to annex occupied Palestinian territory. (international law) Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that attempt. When Jordan lost that territory it was still occupied Palestinian territory as it is today.

BTW, Israel never recognized the green line as its border.

There was never any “Pally territory”.

Wrong.
The ONLY legal documents concerning Palestine or Israel are the Treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres in 1920, both of which affirm global recognition of Palestine, and that Jews were not to have any sovereignty at all.

Israel was not legally created in 1948 by the UN, because the UN did not have that authority.

There was no '' global affirmation'' of a sovereign islamic Pal'istan'.

 

[Hollie]

Muslim woman ‘escorted off’ American Airlines flight​

The hijab didn't seem terribly important when not used for propaganda

 

[P F Tinmore]

BLUF: It does not matter who recognized what or when. The fact of the matter is that Jordan Annexed the West Bank and Jordan.

◈ So says Jordan.In their official history.

Jordan said it did. The reast of the world said it did not.

 

[P F Tinmore]

This is, in my opinion, the Armistice Agreement between Israel and Jordan did not address the issue of national borders or boundaries. All it said was:

"The basic purpose of the Armistice Demarcation Lines is to delineate the lines beyond which the armed forces of the respective Parties shall not move." [Article IV (2)]

Indeed, between Israeli forces and Jordanian forces not between Israel and Jordan. It had no affect on Palestine's borders. It was Palestine on both sides.

 

[P F Tinmore]

One of the problems in understanding what happened and the status of the Disputed Territory in Palestine

There is no dispute. It is occupied Palestinian territory. Disputed is an Israeli propaganda term.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is an extension of the 1949 Arab League unilateral intervention [International Armed Conflict (AIC)] (AIC 'vs' NIAC) which had the outcome of long-term occupations.

Indeed, the 1948 war divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The misrepresentation of that fact (the Green Line is some sort of border) for more than half a century has left to the persistent demand by the PLO/Palestinian Authority/Palestinian State for the proper boundary in a two-state solution → it should be based on pre-June 4th 1967 Armistice Line.

There is no legal requirement for the Palestinians to accept any partition of Palestine. The Palestinians are moving away from that foreign imposed solution.

 

[Hollie]

One of the problems in understanding what happened and the status of the Disputed Territory in Palestine

There is no dispute. It is occupied Palestinian territory. Disputed is an Israeli propaganda term.

You are correct in the sense that there is no dispute, Your assignment of territory as Pally territory is nonsensical. That's not in dispute,

 

[P F Tinmore]

One of the problems in understanding what happened and the status of the Disputed Territory in Palestine

There is no dispute. It is occupied Palestinian territory. Disputed is an Israeli propaganda term.

You are correct in the sense that there is no dispute, Your assignment of territory as Pally territory is nonsensical. That's not in dispute,

You didn't see my post that quoted Rocco's post?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Status West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: It does not matter who recognized what or when. The fact of the matter is that Jordan Annexed the West Bank and Jordan.

◈ So says Jordan.In their official history.

Jordan said it did. The reast of the world said it did not.

(REFERENCE)

Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States
26 December 1933​

ARTICLE 3
The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.

ARTICLE 6
The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.

The primary interest of states is the conservation of peace. Differences of any nature which arise between them should be settled by recognized pacific methods.

(COMMENT)

Two points in favor of "P F Tinmore." It can be argued that:

Disputed Territory in Palestine (DTP) and its Arab Palestinian inhabitance did not have the Right to Self-Determination and therefore could not participate in the adoption of Annexation of April 1950.

The DTP was not a "state" and the Montevideo Convention does not apply.

(THE WHY)

• IF the International System disavows the Annexation, THEN the claim can be made that Israel invaded Arab Palestinian Territory.

• IF the International System accepts the Annexation, THEN took Occupation over Jordanian Territory; and in 1988, the Jordanians abandon sovereignty over the DTP.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

One of the problems in understanding what happened and the status of the Disputed Territory in Palestine

There is no dispute. It is occupied Palestinian territory. Disputed is an Israeli propaganda term.

You are correct in the sense that there is no dispute, Your assignment of territory as Pally territory is nonsensical. That's not in dispute,

You didn't see my post that quoted Rocco's post?

You didn't understand what you posted?

 

[P F Tinmore]

THE STRENGTH OF SOLIDARITY | Spotlight on Nonviolence with Huwaida Arraf and Palestinian Resilience​

 

[Hollie]

 

[Hollie]

As we see with regularity, the islamic terrorist franchise in the West Bank has an utter disregard for some very basic socio-political norms.

Fatah: Palestinians have âa natural rightâ to murder Israelis | PMW Analysis

Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”

www.palwatch.org

Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis​

Nan Jacques Zilberdik | May 6, 2021

• Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”​

• Fatah spokesman endorses terror, legitimizes use of “all means”: “It is the Palestinian people’s natural right to deter this [Israeli] terror and defend itself… with all available means”​

• Abbas calls for ”peaceful popular resistance” – another term used by PA leaders – including Abbas himself - to refer at times to violence and terror​

The day after the shooting attack against 3 Israeli teens - one of whom has since died of his wounds - a Fatah official from the party’s Nablus branch called shooting an Israeli teen in the head a “heroic operation” and “a natural right.” Fatah Spokesman in the Nablus District, Kayed Mi’ari, said the attack was a justified response to Israeli “terror,” citing the PA’s repeated claim that Palestinians have a right to use “all means” to fight against Israel. Echoing other Fatah statements, Mi’ari also claimed the shooting attack was a reaction to Israel's refusal to let the PA hold elections in Jerusalem as well as Israel's alleged “Judaization” of Jerusalem.

Terms like “all means,” “all means of resistance,” and “all forms,” are ‎used by PA leaders to include using all types of violence - and even deadly terror -‎against Israeli civilians such as stabbings and shootings, as well as throwing rocks and Molotov Cocktails.

 

[P F Tinmore]

As we see with regularity, the islamic terrorist franchise in the West Bank has an utter disregard for some very basic socio-political norms.

Fatah: Palestinians have âa natural rightâ to murder Israelis | PMW Analysis

Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”

www.palwatch.org

Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis​

Nan Jacques Zilberdik | May 6, 2021

• Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”​

• Fatah spokesman endorses terror, legitimizes use of “all means”: “It is the Palestinian people’s natural right to deter this [Israeli] terror and defend itself… with all available means”​

• Abbas calls for ”peaceful popular resistance” – another term used by PA leaders – including Abbas himself - to refer at times to violence and terror​

The day after the shooting attack against 3 Israeli teens - one of whom has since died of his wounds - a Fatah official from the party’s Nablus branch called shooting an Israeli teen in the head a “heroic operation” and “a natural right.” Fatah Spokesman in the Nablus District, Kayed Mi’ari, said the attack was a justified response to Israeli “terror,” citing the PA’s repeated claim that Palestinians have a right to use “all means” to fight against Israel. Echoing other Fatah statements, Mi’ari also claimed the shooting attack was a reaction to Israel's refusal to let the PA hold elections in Jerusalem as well as Israel's alleged “Judaization” of Jerusalem.

Terms like “all means,” “all means of resistance,” and “all forms,” are ‎used by PA leaders to include using all types of violence - and even deadly terror -‎against Israeli civilians such as stabbings and shootings, as well as throwing rocks and Molotov Cocktails.

They are all foreign colonial settlers.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

As we see with regularity, the islamic terrorist franchise in the West Bank has an utter disregard for some very basic socio-political norms.

Fatah: Palestinians have âa natural rightâ to murder Israelis | PMW Analysis

Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”

www.palwatch.org

Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis​

Nan Jacques Zilberdik | May 6, 2021

• Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”​

• Fatah spokesman endorses terror, legitimizes use of “all means”: “It is the Palestinian people’s natural right to deter this [Israeli] terror and defend itself… with all available means”​

• Abbas calls for ”peaceful popular resistance” – another term used by PA leaders – including Abbas himself - to refer at times to violence and terror​

The day after the shooting attack against 3 Israeli teens - one of whom has since died of his wounds - a Fatah official from the party’s Nablus branch called shooting an Israeli teen in the head a “heroic operation” and “a natural right.” Fatah Spokesman in the Nablus District, Kayed Mi’ari, said the attack was a justified response to Israeli “terror,” citing the PA’s repeated claim that Palestinians have a right to use “all means” to fight against Israel. Echoing other Fatah statements, Mi’ari also claimed the shooting attack was a reaction to Israel's refusal to let the PA hold elections in Jerusalem as well as Israel's alleged “Judaization” of Jerusalem.

Terms like “all means,” “all means of resistance,” and “all forms,” are ‎used by PA leaders to include using all types of violence - and even deadly terror -‎against Israeli civilians such as stabbings and shootings, as well as throwing rocks and Molotov Cocktails.

They are all foreign colonial settlers.

I know, damn Muslim invaders.

 

[Hollie]

As we see with regularity, the islamic terrorist franchise in the West Bank has an utter disregard for some very basic socio-political norms.

Fatah: Palestinians have âa natural rightâ to murder Israelis | PMW Analysis

Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”

www.palwatch.org

Fatah: Palestinians have “a natural right” to murder Israelis​

Nan Jacques Zilberdik | May 6, 2021

• Fatah spokesman: Shooting attack against Israeli teens was “heroic” and “a natural response and a natural right”​

• Fatah spokesman endorses terror, legitimizes use of “all means”: “It is the Palestinian people’s natural right to deter this [Israeli] terror and defend itself… with all available means”​

• Abbas calls for ”peaceful popular resistance” – another term used by PA leaders – including Abbas himself - to refer at times to violence and terror​

The day after the shooting attack against 3 Israeli teens - one of whom has since died of his wounds - a Fatah official from the party’s Nablus branch called shooting an Israeli teen in the head a “heroic operation” and “a natural right.” Fatah Spokesman in the Nablus District, Kayed Mi’ari, said the attack was a justified response to Israeli “terror,” citing the PA’s repeated claim that Palestinians have a right to use “all means” to fight against Israel. Echoing other Fatah statements, Mi’ari also claimed the shooting attack was a reaction to Israel's refusal to let the PA hold elections in Jerusalem as well as Israel's alleged “Judaization” of Jerusalem.

Terms like “all means,” “all means of resistance,” and “all forms,” are ‎used by PA leaders to include using all types of violence - and even deadly terror -‎against Israeli civilians such as stabbings and shootings, as well as throwing rocks and Molotov Cocktails.

They are all foreign colonial settlers.

That's the excuse you manufacture for condoning islamic terrorism?