Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Hollie]

At long last, we here in the Great Satan have made the decision (which should have been made decades ago), that we will not pay to enable Islamic terrorism and will not pay to supply incredible wealth to the UNRWA welfare fraud.


US ends all funding to UN agency for Palestinian refugees

UN agency for Palestinian refugees loses US funding - CNNPolitics

Washington (CNN)The United States is ending all funding to the United Nations agency tasked with supporting Palestinian refugees, the US State Department said Friday, describing the body as "irredeemably flawed."

The United States has long been the biggest single donor to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, known as UNRWA, donating more than $350 million to the agency in 2017.




Lets see the Arab league make up the shortfall.

When pigs fly.

 

[Hollie]

Ya’ Allah, dude. Not another dumping of that spam YouTube video.

Sixties asked a question. The video answers it.

If it takes three hours to answer Sixties questions, its gotta be a whole lot of bullshit. Can you sum up in a paragraph the answer to the question? Better yet, sum it up in a single sentence. If your argument is good and objective, it should be easy to do that.

Why are Arab Palestinian refugees different than all other refugees?

The UN had a responsibility for the Palestinians that they did not have for other refugees.

Why would the UN have a different responsibility towards Arab Palestinians than any other refugees in the history of the UN?

Why would the UN ha e a different responsibility towards the Arab people uprooted in 1947-1948 as compared to the Syrians of today? Or the Sudanese? Or the Rohingya? Or any other peoples?

If y'all would watch the video, you wouldn't have to ask all these stupid questions.

Ya, Allah. False premise. That phony YouTube video appeals only to goofy Islamist propaganda.

 

[Shusha]

If y'all would watch the video, you wouldn't have to ask all these stupid questions.

If you had watched the three hours (more? Is there a Part 4?) of the video, you should be able to sum up the basic concepts in a few sentences. This is a debate board, not a movie theatre.

So tell me, why are Arab Palestinians so special that we have to redefine terms like "refugees" for them?

 

[P F Tinmore]

If y'all would watch the video, you wouldn't have to ask all these stupid questions.

If you had watched the three hours (more? Is there a Part 4?) of the video, you should be able to sum up the basic concepts in a few sentences. This is a debate board, not a movie theatre.

So tell me, why are Arab Palestinians so special that we have to redefine terms like "refugees" for them?

Resolution 194 defines refugee as anyone who left. I don't see anything bizarre about that.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Well, let us take a look at it, shall we?


The United Nations General Assembly adopts resolution 194 (III), resolving that “refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.”

Resolution 194 | UNRWA


Who knew? Most of those Arabs expelled from what became Israel did not want to live in peace with the Jews in Israel.
Sorry, those cannot return.

Now, Jews do know how to live in peace with their neighbors and host countries, BUT, Jordan will not allow the Jews to return to the homes they were expelled from.

Neither can Jews return to Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Hebron and other parts of Judea and Samaria taken over by the Arab Muslims after 1920.....and many other countries where they were expelled since 1920.


Let us put it this way, according to Tinmore:


Arabs have EVERY RIGHT to return to their homes in what is now Israel.

Jews have NO RIGHT AT ALL to even think about returning to the homes and businesses and lands they were forced to leave behind after 1920.


AND THAT.......is the definition of a refugee

 

[Shusha]

Resolution 194 defines refugee as anyone who left. I don't see anything bizarre about that.

UNGA Resolution 194 does not create law. Nor does it define the term "refugee". It uses that term, but does not define it.

You have not answered by question. Why is there a special definition of "refugee" for Arabs? Why is there a special "right of return" for Arabs?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Our friend "Shusha" is absolutely correct. General Resolution • A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948 • DOES NOT constitute "International Law." In the entirety of the Resolution, the word "refugee is only used three times; all of them being found in Paragraph 11.

And! The word "refugee" was not defined until the "Convention relating to the Status of Refugees (CRSR)." It excludes those that --- "at present receiving [services] from organs or agencies of the United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) protection or assistance." That would be the Arab Palestinians." and Entry into force 22 April 1954, and the associated 1997 Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees (PRSR). The CRSR and the PRSR are two different documents.

The Arab Palestinian Refugees are excluded from the services and benefits of the UNHCR as a result of the exclusion (supra) (Chapter I General Provision --- Article 1 Definition of the term "refugee" --- Para D).

Resolution 194 defines refugee as anyone who left. I don't see anything bizarre about that.

(COMMENT)

The oath taken by the Arab Palestinians in February 1948, that they will "never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition" seems to rule-out the provision that the Arab Palestinians will "live at peace with their neighbors." This was reaffirmed by the Arab Palestinians in both 1968 Charter and in the 1988 Covenant with the pledge that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase." --- and --- "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;

Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation, and to maintain close relations with the Director of the United Nations Relief for Palestine Refugees and, through him, with the appropriate organs and agencies of the United Nations;

You should also notice that the General Assembly Resolution DOES NOT instruct or demand that the State of Israel make any repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation; but rather it "instructs" the 'United Nations Conciliation Commission to facilitate those actions. UN General Assembly Resolution did not obligate the Israelis to any action.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

(SIDEBAR)

There is an interesting two interesting questions:

• ARE all the PLO and Fedayeen expelled (1970) from Jordan are true refugees?
• ARE any of the West Band Arab Palestinians that were once Jordanian Citizens (when HM King Hussein cut all ties with the West Bank in 1988) are true refugees?​

Just a Thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

(SIDEBAR)

There is an interesting two interesting questions:

• ARE all the PLO and Fedayeen expelled (1970) from Jordan are true refugees?
• ARE any of the West Band Arab Palestinians that were once Jordanian Citizens (when HM King Hussein cut all ties with the West Bank in 1988) are true refugees?​

Just a Thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan is a non issue. It is illegal to annex occupied territory.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Our friend "Shusha" is absolutely correct. General Resolution • A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948 • DOES NOT constitute "International Law." In the entirety of the Resolution, the word "refugee is only used three times; all of them being found in Paragraph 11.

And! The word "refugee" was not defined until the "Convention relating to the Status of Refugees (CRSR)." It excludes those that --- "at present receiving [services] from organs or agencies of the United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) protection or assistance." That would be the Arab Palestinians." and Entry into force 22 April 1954, and the associated 1997 Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees (PRSR). The CRSR and the PRSR are two different documents.

The Arab Palestinian Refugees are excluded from the services and benefits of the UNHCR as a result of the exclusion (supra) (Chapter I General Provision --- Article 1 Definition of the term "refugee" --- Para D).

Resolution 194 defines refugee as anyone who left. I don't see anything bizarre about that.

(COMMENT)

The oath taken by the Arab Palestinians in February 1948, that they will "never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition" seems to rule-out the provision that the Arab Palestinians will "live at peace with their neighbors." This was reaffirmed by the Arab Palestinians in both 1968 Charter and in the 1988 Covenant with the pledge that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase." --- and --- "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;

Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation, and to maintain close relations with the Director of the United Nations Relief for Palestine Refugees and, through him, with the appropriate organs and agencies of the United Nations;

You should also notice that the General Assembly Resolution DOES NOT instruct or demand that the State of Israel make any repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation; but rather it "instructs" the 'United Nations Conciliation Commission to facilitate those actions. UN General Assembly Resolution did not obligate the Israelis to any action.

Most Respectfully,
R

to rule-out the provision that the Arab Palestinians will "live at peace with their neighbors."

Twenty percent of Israel's citizens are Palestinians living at peace with their neighbors. That is just Israel's excuse to deny the Palestinians their right to return.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Your question was answered. It seems that the Arab Palestinians has a habit of biting the hand that feeds them.

(SIDEBAR)

There is an interesting two interesting questions:

• ARE all the PLO and Fedayeen expelled (1970) from Jordan are true refugees?
• ARE any of the West Band Arab Palestinians that were once Jordanian Citizens (when HM King Hussein cut all ties with the West Bank in 1988) are true refugees?​

Just a Thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan is a non issue. It is illegal to annex occupied territory.

(COMMENT)

That is a very big difference between you and I. I know that Jordan can have a very positive impact on the regional security, economics, commerce, and diplomacy. It can have a very important impact on the quality of life for its people and the people of states for which they cooperate on these matters.

Jordan is an issue.

As for annexation, International Law does not say: "It is illegal to annex occupied territory." In fact, International Law does not even outline the procedures or processes for annexation. What International Law implies that the acquisition of territory through force is illegal. Acquisition by "annexation" and acquisition by "conquest" are two different processes. Israel did not acquire any territory through force ("inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war") from the State of Palestine.

Remember, there was a time in 1988 when Jordan abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem, and for which there was no formal State of Palestine or Government over the West Bank and Jerusalem.

The question becomes: Did Israel ever extend its "sovereignty" or "effective control" over any territory being held in the sovereignty of the Palestinians? The answer is "NO." In fact, even today, the Ramallah Government has a hard time defining what territory they actually hold sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Posting #11084 -- Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Your question was answered. It seems that the Arab Palestinians has a habit of biting the hand that feeds them.

(SIDEBAR)

There is an interesting two interesting questions:

• ARE all the PLO and Fedayeen expelled (1970) from Jordan are true refugees?
• ARE any of the West Band Arab Palestinians that were once Jordanian Citizens (when HM King Hussein cut all ties with the West Bank in 1988) are true refugees?​

Just a Thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

Jordan is a non issue. It is illegal to annex occupied territory.

(COMMENT)

That is a very big difference between you and I. I know that Jordan can have a very positive impact on the regional security, economics, commerce, and diplomacy. It can have a very important impact on the quality of life for its people and the people of states for which they cooperate on these matters.

Jordan is an issue.

As for annexation, International Law does not say: "It is illegal to annex occupied territory." In fact, International Law does not even outline the procedures or processes for annexation. What International Law implies that the acquisition of territory through force is illegal. Acquisition by "annexation" and acquisition by "conquest" are two different processes. Israel did not acquire any territory through force ("inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war") from the State of Palestine.

Remember, there was a time in 1988 when Jordan abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem, and for which there was no formal State of Palestine or Government over the West Bank and Jerusalem.

The question becomes: Did Israel ever extend its "sovereignty" or "effective control" over any territory being held in the sovereignty of the Palestinians? The answer is "NO." In fact, even today, the Ramallah Government has a hard time defining what territory they actually hold sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

Acquisition by "annexation" and acquisition by "conquest" are two different processes. Israel did not acquire any territory through force ("inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war") from the State of Palestine.

That is just Israeli say so. It is not true.

 

[Shusha]

Acquisition by "annexation" and acquisition by "conquest" are two different processes. Israel did not acquire any territory through force ("inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war") from the State of Palestine.

That is just Israeli say so. It is not true.

The Jewish people have a legal right entrenched in law and treaties to AT LEAST SOME portion of the territory (and many, including me, would argue they are legally entitled to ALL of it, less Jordan). Given that the partition has never been formalized in law (a treaty), there is absolutely no legal basis to say that Israel has 'acquired' territory at all through force. There is simply no legal partitioning of the territory as yet, thus there is no legal claim that Israel 'has acquired more than she has a right to". Through force or any other means.

 

[Shusha]

Well, unless you subscribe to the ridiculous notion that the Jewish people have no access to those universal, inviolable, inherent rights Tinmore keeps bringing up. And we know what the descriptive word for THAT is.

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ Yeap, ONLY if one includes Israel into it. All of it. Lets laugh ]

Abbas to Peace Now: Trump offered Palestinian-Jordanian 'confederation'

 

[Sixties Fan]

Palestinians upset that Israel won't allow an Arab clan to murder a member of another clan ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

Washington Post falsely claims that UNRWA and UNHCR share the same definition of refugees ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

Arab MKs rally behind Corbyn, praise his ‘unflinching’ Palestinian support

 

[Hollie]

We interrupt our regularly scheduled gee-had for this PSA regarding a shiny new fatwa issued by the Palestinian Supreme Fatwa Council, aka, The Islamic Association of Dark Age Loons.


PA forbids Palestinians to seek election or vote
in the Jerusalem municipal elections in October

PA forbids Palestinians to seek election or vote in the Jerusalem municipal elections in October - PMW Bulletins

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

The Palestinian Authority wants Palestinians to neither run for election nor to vote when Israel holds Jerusalem municipal elections in October. In fact, the PA’s top religious body has forbidden it in the name of Islam:
“The Palestinian Supreme Fatwa Council issued a religious ruling that bans running or voting in the occupation’s municipal elections in occupied Jerusalem... it emphasized that voting or running in the municipal elections is forbidden by religious law, since this matter is subject to the rules of benefit and damage - which the sources of authority for estimating them are the knowledgeable religious scholars who know what the results will be - and there is no doubt at all that the damages that will be caused as a result of the participation are huge compared to the benefits.”
[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, July 31, 2018]


“forbidden it in the name of Islam:”

Any questions, infidels?

We now return you to regularly scheduled program.

 

[Hollie]

Well, unless you subscribe to the ridiculous notion that the Jewish people have no access to those universal, inviolable, inherent rights Tinmore keeps bringing up. And we know what the descriptive word for THAT is.

I think it’s a mistake to believe The Tinmore Notion is anything other than largely mainstream Islamic orthodoxy.

I would direct you to the Islamic source material. 61:9, 48:28, 9:33

For Israelis, there is the added dynamic of the virulent anti-Semitism endemic to Islam and the Arab world. The privations, pogroms, and subjugation visited upon the Jews, Christians and non-believers living in dhimmitude in Arab nations is well documented throughout the ages. The Jews are depicted in the koran and several sunna in the most lurid ways, which is easily interpreted as grounds to indulge in hatred and persecution against them. In the Arab press, all manner of lies and slander about the Jews and Israel are presented as fact. To Arab/Moslem sensibilities, it is an affront that not only did the despised Jew return to claim his homeland, but he additionally brought Western democratic ideals and developed the means to defend them. I think the fact that the Jews and Christians fight back now--more than effectively— and have surpassed the Islamic world in every imaginable measure is a lasting humiliation to Moslems , actually.