Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Sixties Fan]

But as a recent poll of Israeli Arabs proves, the community is changing—and not in Zoabi’s favor.

Perhaps most striking was the fact that a decisive majority of respondents identified primarily as Israeli rather than Palestinian, which is something that wasn’t true even a few years ago. In 2012, for instance, just 32.5 percent of Israeli Arabs defined themselves as “Israeli” rather than Palestinian. But the figure has risen fairly steadily, and this year, asked “which term best describes you,” 54 percent of respondents chose some variant of “Israeli” (the most popular choice was “Israeli Arab,” followed by “Arab citizen of Israel,” “Israeli,” and “Israeli Muslim”). That’s more than double the 24 percent who chose some variant of “Palestinian” (15 percent chose simply “Palestinian.” The others chose “Palestinian in Israel,” “Palestinian citizen in Israel,” or “Israeli Palestinian”).

(full article online)

Israeli Arabs’ Growing Israeli Identity | Evelyn Gordon

 

[JoelT1]

History For Dummies: Palestine originated as a bogus Roman name imposed on Jews’ land. And Jews were originally called palestinians, by the British who coined the bogus term.

 

[JoelT1]

[Palestinians and their endless attempts to tell the world that Jews do not have the right to self determination on their own ancient homeland ]

TfL bans ads displaying Palestinian objections to Balfour declaration

So,what is wrong with the ad?

Balfour at 100: A legacy of racism and propaganda

The coming months mark the centennial of Palestine’s forcible incorporation into the British Empire. In November 1917, British foreign secretary Lord Arthur Balfour declared his government’s support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”; in December, Jerusalem fell to British troops. One hundred years later, the effects of these events continue to reverberate. This should be a time of sombre reflection about international responsibility for the unfolding tragedy in Palestine.

This responsibility should weigh heavily on the West. Walid Khalidi put it well: “The Zionists were the initiators. But they were also, as they still are, the protégés of their Anglo–American sponsors and the emanations of their power, resources, and will.” The fact is that the Israeli state can’t be credited for much originality – either in its brutality or in the hypocrisy deployed to cover it. And it is all too fitting that it was British imperialism that propelled the Zionist movement onto the world stage.

Balfour at 100: A legacy of racism and propaganda

Um, “palestine” is an English word and was merely the temporary name of the British Mandate after WW1, and ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood. There’s no p in Arabic

There was no such “palestine” in existence prior to WW1 during 400 years of the Ottoman Empire. Arabs called Syria Bilad al-Sham “land to the left”

 

[Sixties Fan]

Ynetnews Opinion - Israeli Arabs are breaking their silence

 

[Shusha]

The region of Palestine was militarily occupied by the army of a people who took away the right of the native people to govern their homeland, decide whether they wanted to create a state in Palestine ... and preserve the ethnic make up of their land.

Good. Now apply that to the Jewish people.

 

[Shusha]

But your description of the creation of the state ... (from the military occupation, denial of natives' rights, destruction of the racial composition of their homeland, creation of a parallel and separate society to the collapse of the native society and confinement of the native population in ethnic enclaves) fits the definition and description of a colonial society and a future ethnocratic state to a T.

It fits the description of the dissolution of retired nations like Yugoslavia and the creation of new States as well. You are okay with Yugoslavia splitting up, right?

 

[rylah]

1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.

This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.

If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.

When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". And I should mention that "ethnic composition" sounds much worse than "maintain society".

Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?

 

[JoelT1]

1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.

This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.

If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.

When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". And I should mention that "ethnic composition" sounds much worse than "maintain society".

Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?

1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.

This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.

If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.

When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". And I should mention that "ethnic composition" sounds much worse than "maintain society".

Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?

Jews were a thriving population in Arabia, until the advent of Islam and Muslims mass-slaughtering them and ethnically cleansing Arabia of Jews

Maimonides’ letter to Yemenite Jews poignantly describes Arabs unrelenting persecution of Jews

 

[rylah]

1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.

This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.

If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.

When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". And I should mention that "ethnic composition" sounds much worse than "maintain society".

Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?

1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.

This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.

If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.

When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". And I should mention that "ethnic composition" sounds much worse than "maintain society".

Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?

Jews were a thriving population in Arabia, until the advent of Islam and Muslims mass-slaughtering them and ethnically cleansing Arabia of Jews

Maimonides’ letter to Yemenite Jews poignantly describes Arabs unrelenting persecution of Jews

Agree, wasn't Medina a Jewish center once?

Nevertheless, the condition of the Jewish community in Palestine was much worse, than of other communities in the middle east.

 

[JoelT1]

1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.

This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.

If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.

When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". And I should mention that "ethnic composition" sounds much worse than "maintain society".

Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?

1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.

This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.

If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.

When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". And I should mention that "ethnic composition" sounds much worse than "maintain society".

Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?

Jews were a thriving population in Arabia, until the advent of Islam and Muslims mass-slaughtering them and ethnically cleansing Arabia of Jews

Maimonides’ letter to Yemenite Jews poignantly describes Arabs unrelenting persecution of Jews

Agree, wasn't Medina a Jewish center once?

Nevertheless, the condition of the Jewish community in Palestine was much worse, than of other communities in the middle east.

Jews (and Christians) inhabited Medina long before Muhammad and Muslims, and lived elsewhere in Arabia such as Khaybar which Arab Muslims attacked and subjugated

Jews generally were treated well under Ottoman Turkish rule which ended with its collapse in WW1. Of course, Turks are different than Arabs

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
※→ "José, et al,

Well, you tend to see only what you want to see.

The Allied Powers wrote all these guidelines you like to think extend some special privilege to the Arab Palestinians.

You cannot apply concepts of the 21st Century to common practice and understanding at the turn of the 19th Century into the very beginning of the 20th Century.

If you study history, you will notice that Imperialism (used as a propaganda term even up through today) was on the decline. At the end of the Great War (WWI) four great empires fell.

(COMMENT)

Against the "will of the natives" sends a totally bad interpretation. The Allied Powers set the stage for what was to become of the territories under the Mandate.

(COMMENT)

It was often considered counterproductive for the Arab Palestinians to be given the care of a minority sub-culture in the Middle East. And while it might have been a decision at risk by the Allied Powers that implemented the Mandate System, it was later proven that the Arab Palestinians were untrustworthy in any true political sense. Not long after the creation of the PLO , they uncovered their true colors:

The Conflict of 1970, Jordan History
The Jordanian civil war of September 1970, also known in the Arab world as Black September, was an attempt by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the more radical Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) to topple Jordanian King Hussein and seize control of the country.

Jordan Premier Assassinated by Palestinian Extremist Group
Egyptian prosecutor Gen. Muhammad Maher Hassan said four men had been arrested. He said three belonged to an extremist Palestinian group called "the Black Hand of September." This is apparently a reference to the September, 1970, civil war in Jordan between Palestinian guerrillas and government troops.​

Yes, yes, yes, The Americans are such bad people. And the Arab Palestinians have such clean hands.

The concept of Rights of Indigenous Peoples (A/RES/61/295 SEP 2007) only gained marginal consensus in the first decade of the 21st Century; long after the wars have been fought and the decisions had been made.

So you recognize the fact that the british occupiers allowed the Zionists to create a totally separated society from the arab society, complete with a jewish press, jewish school system, farms, industries, banks, political institutions and leadership, proto-army, etc, etc...

The settlement of Jamestown and the future Colony of Virginia, were, respectively, a community and a society totally separated from the Algonquian and Iroquoian native societies that existed in Virginia.

(COMMENT)

Yes, that would be the "millet system" of the Ottoman Empire.

Don't confuse the mission and purpose of Jamestown with anything relevant to today. Different standards applied.

The conflict instigated by the Mufti of Jerusalem (Mohammed Amin al-Husseini) was all about power, shrouded in the cloak of nationalism. The Mufti was later to make a bid for power via the Egyptian financed "All Palestine Government.

(COMMENT)

There is nothing oblique about it.

Oh hell yes. But it was more then just the Mandate Power (Great Britain). The Jewish National Home was endorsed by the Principle Allied Powers (WWI era) and the Allied Command Europe (Allied Powers WWII).

In fact the UNSCOP made a two-state recommendation.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in the process. Not for the first time either. So it comes as no surprise that their preferences where less than prominent.

(COMMENT)

If you are talking about the economy on the territory over which the Israelis cover, you will notice that it did not collapse at all. In fact it is many time more prosperous that anything the Arabs have done in any of the 22 Member States.

As for the refugees, the UNRWA has made absolutely no attempt to provide the same placement services as the UN Refugee Agency.

(COMMENT)

It was a decision set with more input than not. The Arab State and the Jewish State were outlined in A/RES/181(II).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

 

[JoelT1]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

 

[Coyote]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

 

[JoelT1]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Israel calls equal rights for all as destroying Israel.

What does that say about Israel?

 

[Coyote]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Israel calls equal rights for all as destroying Israel.

What does that say about Israel?

Not sure what you mean?

 

[JoelT1]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Israel calls equal rights for all as destroying Israel.

What does that say about Israel?

Barack Obama: Democratic Israel is the future of the world

 

[Coyote]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Noura Erakat: Leveraging Our Collective Expertise