Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Shusha]

The Palestinians were citizens of territory defined by international borders. The people have the right to independence and sovereignty.

The Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (all of them) were citizens of territory defined by international borders. Both peoples have the right to independence and sovereignty. The intent was for Jordan to be the place for Arab sovereignty and Israel to be the place for Jewish sovereignty. Failing that, the next best thing is to divide "Palestine" into two areas -- one for each to have sovereignty. Easy peasy.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed, there is that pesky right to territorial integrity thing.

The right to territorial integrity means that a State has the right not to have its borders violated by other States. It does not prohibit the division of a State into two or more parts as outlined in a peace treaty. Witness Yugoslavia. Was Yugoslavia's "territorial integrity" violated when she split into the numerous new States? Of course not.

You are using legal terms and concepts incorrectly.

Indeed, and there has never been a treaty ceding any Palestinian land to Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians were citizens of territory defined by international borders. The people have the right to independence and sovereignty.

The Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (all of them) were citizens of territory defined by international borders. Both peoples have the right to independence and sovereignty. The intent was for Jordan to be the place for Arab sovereignty and Israel to be the place for Jewish sovereignty. Failing that, the next best thing is to divide "Palestine" into two areas -- one for each to have sovereignty. Easy peasy.

Easy except for those people who get the boot for living on the wrong side of the line.

 

[abi]

The Jewish narrative could BE that very same thing. Their land was taken in war and never returned.

That is the zionist narrative.

Examine events on the Temple Mount as evidence. They are representative of the entire conflict.

I agree here. Israel's Jews control the Mount (with guns that Christians and Muslims cannot carry) known to the entire Arab world as Haram esh-Sharif. Several Muslim structures are obviously there and the western wall is disputed as to what it represents even by respected, mainstream archeological researchers.
Wailing at the wrong wall?

 

[P F Tinmore]

So any offer to dismantle Palestine is not a peace Settlement?

Who is offering to dismantle Palestine?

 

[Shusha]

The Jewish narrative could BE that very same thing. Their land was taken in war and never returned.

That is the zionist narrative.

Oh please. Tell me you are not one of those people who don't believe that the territory in question is the ancestral, historical and religious homeland of the Jewish people.

Its the most ridiculous, absurd belief.

 

[Shusha]

The Jewish narrative could BE that very same thing. Their land was taken in war and never returned.

That is the zionist narrative.

Examine events on the Temple Mount as evidence. They are representative of the entire conflict.

I agree here. Israel's Jews control the Mount (with guns that Christians and Muslims cannot carry) known to the entire Arab world as Haram esh-Sharif. Several Muslim structures are obviously there and the western wall is disputed as to what it represents even by respected, mainstream archeological researchers.
Wailing at the wrong wall?

See what I mean, Coyote ?

The Arab narrative is that the Jewish people have no connection, no history, no ancestral claim, no monuments, no rights. Its morally wrong.

 

[Shusha]

I agree here. Israel's Jews control the Mount (with guns that Christians and Muslims cannot carry) known to the entire Arab world as Haram esh-Sharif. Several Muslim structures are obviously there and the western wall is disputed as to what it represents even by respected, mainstream archeological researchers.
Wailing at the wrong wall?

The article you are citing gives evidence that the ENTIRE Temple Mount complex is revered and holy to the Jewish people. It is known as Har Habayit.

And trying to discredit Jewish connection to the place is the entire source of the conflict.

 

[abi]

Oh please. Tell me you are not one of those people who don't believe that the territory in question is the ancestral, historical and religious homeland of the Jewish people.

Its the most ridiculous, absurd belief.

I believe that the temple mount is not settled history and that the Zionist narrative is only possible through misinterpretation and misrepresentation.

Have you ever actually read the literature by Josephus and others regarding the size and location of Fortress Antonia?

 

[Shusha]

Indeed, there is that pesky right to territorial integrity thing.

The right to territorial integrity means that a State has the right not to have its borders violated by other States. It does not prohibit the division of a State into two or more parts as outlined in a peace treaty. Witness Yugoslavia. Was Yugoslavia's "territorial integrity" violated when she split into the numerous new States? Of course not.

You are using legal terms and concepts incorrectly.

Indeed, and there has never been a treaty ceding any Palestinian land to Israel.

We agree. So, by your misuse of the term "territorial integrity" you are actually arguing that Israel is prohibited from ceding any territory to Arabs or anyone else. (Which concept, oddly enough, also exists in Article 5 of the Palestine Mandate).

 

[abi]

And trying to discredit Jewish connection to the place is the entire source of the conflict.

C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be?

The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?

 

[Shusha]

I believe that the temple mount is not settled history and that the Zionist narrative is only possible through misinterpretation and misrepresentation.

Have you ever actually read the literature by Josephus and others regarding the size and location of Fortress Antonia?

 

[fanger]

The Jewish narrative could BE that very same thing. Their land was taken in war and never returned.

That is the zionist narrative.

Oh please. Tell me you are not one of those people who don't believe that the territory in question is the ancestral, historical and religious homeland of the Jewish people.

Its the most ridiculous, absurd belief.

While maintaining Britain's commitment to the Balfour declaration and its promise of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, "internationally guaranteed" and "recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection," the paper emphasized that the establishment of a Jewish National Home would not impose a Jewish nationality on the Arab inhabitants of Palestine, and "the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian".

 

[abi]

I believe that the temple mount is not settled history and that the Zionist narrative is only possible through misinterpretation and misrepresentation.

Have you ever actually read the literature by Josephus and others regarding the size and location of Fortress Antonia?

Instead of banging your head on the wall, you might want to try reading and then comparing what you have read with the narrative you post on every thread.

 

[Shusha]

And trying to discredit Jewish connection to the place is the entire source of the conflict.

C'mon, how much more disingenuous can one be?

The behavior and actions taken by every Israeli regime since her inception has absolutely nothing to do with it? The fact that more than half of Israeli Jews want the Christians and Muslims ethnically cleansed has nothing to with it? The massive immigration of Europeans has nothing to do with it, nor the hundreds of thousands of the indigenous people who were ethnically cleansed when the Europeans arrived has nothing to do with it?!?

Really? Restart the entire conflict with this thought in mind: The Jewish people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be here as the Arab people do, if not more. The Jewish people are the indigenous people whose land has been stolen from them. It is their ancestral and historical home. Their sovereignty over their ancestral lands must be reconstituted and their Nation restored.


Now, with that thought in mind -- where is the conflict?

 

[Shusha]

I believe that the temple mount is not settled history and that the Zionist narrative is only possible through misinterpretation and misrepresentation.

Have you ever actually read the literature by Josephus and others regarding the size and location of Fortress Antonia?

Instead of banging your head on the wall, you might want to try reading and then comparing what you have read with the narrative you post on every thread.

Abi, the idea that there is NO connection between the Jewish people and the territory in question is the most absurd argument. EVER.

 

[abi]

Your narrative.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Guest on PA TV: Hebrew word "Gilboa" is "Arabic-Canaanite-Palestinian" name stolen by Israel
Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Mar. 16, 2017
Official PA TV program Palestine This Morning, on the launching of the National Flower of Palestine – Gilboa Iris campaign, hosting Green Life Association Chairman Faisal Zakarneh


[ Palestinian Narrative]
Green Life Association Chairman Faisal Zakarneh: “This is a flower that grows in the Gilboa Mountains (i.e., in northern Israel). At this opportunity, let me explain that Gilboa is an ancient Palestinian-Canaanite-Arabic word, and not Hebrew-Israeli. This needs to be clear. In our minds [the name Gilboa] is connected to the Gilboa Prison... but the occupier has always made us used to him using our language and stealing it and its Arabic-Canaanite-Palestinian names.”


[ Historical fact ]
Mount Gilboa has been the Hebrew name of the location since Biblical times, and notably appears in Samuel 1 Chapter 31 as the location where Saul, the first king of Israel, died in battle.

 

[Shusha]

Your narrative.

Please. Give me a list of objective criteria for determining whether or not a people can be shown to have a connection to a historical area. Be sure that your list of objective criteria can be applied universally.

 

[Shusha]

Here, I'll give you an example.

What criteria would you use to demonstrate the connection of the Al-Aqsa Mosque to the Arab Palestinians?