Who are the Israelis?

[Coyote]

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

 

[Sixties Fan]

That is denying it. They have their own history and their own homeland. They do not need monuments. They exist independently of Jewish Israeli’s by virtue of having inhabited that land.

Again, over and over sixties and Rylah reiterate that they are essentially fake, and according to Sixties, all came from the Arabian peninsula. They repeatedly deny them a distinct identity. You just do not see it.

See? Even you have to define Arab Palestinian identity in comparison and contrast to Jewish identity.

There is no dispute that they inhabit the land and have for several hundreds of years. There is no dispute that they have a history in that land. The discussion is on whether or not they developed a distinct identity and whether or not it is strong enough to establish a national identity. And whether or not it could be said that they ALREADY have a State with territory (Jordan). Those are legitimate questions.

What? I wasn’t defining it in comparison to Jewish identity, you were the one brought that up and I was responding to what YOU had said.

Those are not the questions being asked however. When people are going on insisting the Palestinians are a fake people, who should go back to the Arabian peninsula (that was Sixties), they ARE disputing the fact they have a history there. Several hundreds? How about several thousand?

Not several thousands .

It is a historical fact that the Arabs invaded the Land of Israel 1400 years ago. They were not living there for "thousands of years" . That is what Abbas has been repeating.

That is what others are now, since 1948, or 1973, repeating.

That the Arabs are the indigenous people for over 10,000 years.
True?

That the Jews are nothing but European colonizing invaders.
Is that true?

We are not telling the truth, but Abbas and all who deny any Jewish history to the area are telling the truth?

Are Abbas and so many people out there telling the world that there is no connection between "Palestine" and the Jewish people or not? And when that denial start?

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Maybe some Palestinian Arabs are descendants of both Arabs and Jews, or any other people living in the area, Druze, Bedouin,Europeans, etc.

But the fact remains, that their presence in the land of Israel mainly started with the Kurd and then the Arab invasions of the 7th century.

The "very small" percentage of Jews, forced to convert to Islam or Christianity by sword or fear, does not make ALL Arabs indigenous of the Land of Israel, compared to the high percentage of Jews who can trace their lineage and indigenous status as coming from their ancient homeland.

THAT is the difference.

Some First Nation blood, a small percentage, in anyone, does not make any American suddenly "indigenous" to the USA.
Especially when they are not following the history, culture or language of any one of those First Nations.

Which is exactly what happens with the Palestinian Arabs.

I do not see the Druze or the Beduin demanding indigenous status in the Land of Israel because they know that they are not indigenous to that area, no matter how long they have lived there, and those groups have a much more distinct and defined identity than the Palestinian Arabs have ever had, and maybe ever will.

The Jews are indigenous to that land.
The Samaritans are indigenous to that land.

And there is historical proof for both for them for over at least 4000 years of their existence on that land and the identity they formed there.

The Palestinians, as Susha and I have explained, are defined by what they have been taught since 1920.

1) It is their land. Muslim land.
2) The Jews are invading colonizers.
3) The Jews have stolen their land.
4) The Jews mean to kill them all.
(Just s few of the endless themes they are taught on a daily basis, based on their culture and history which was formed in Arabia, in the 7th century, by one Arab man, with an army and a sword in hand. )

Jews lived in Arabia since the destruction of the First Temple. They never thought of themselves as Arabs, tried to steal the land from anyone, or went around terrorizing any of the Arab clans over land.
And it was because they were Jews, and foreigners to the Arabian land, that Mohammad decided to force them to convert or kill, enslave or expel the three tribes over there.

Shouldn't this example tell a lot as to the mentality of the Arabs since they became Muslims?

Jews have no rights in Arab, Muslim conquered lands. Not since the 7th century CE.

That is my point.

 

[Sixties Fan]

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Again, it is not a matter of how many Jews, Druze, Samaritan or Bedouins have married or converted to Islam, and are now being identified as Arabs.

It is a VERY SMALL percentage, therefore it does not make the Palestinian Arabs on an equal foot with the Jews as being indigenous, anymore than it makes those who came from Spain indigenous of any of the Spanish countries which now exist, no matter how many have married and mixed with the indigenous population.

 

[Coyote]

.,l.,.m

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Again, it is not a matter of how many Jews, Druze, Samaritan or Bedouins have married or converted to Islam, and are now being identified as Arabs.

It is a VERY SMALL percentage, therefore it does not make the Palestinian Arabs on an equal foot with the Jews as being indigenous, anymore than it makes those who came from Spain indigenous of any of the Spanish countries which now exist, no matter how many have married and mixed with the indigenous population.

And you know it is a “very small percentage” how, exactly?

Palestinians - Wikipedia

Origins
See also: Demographic history of Palestine (region)
The origins of Palestinians are complex and diverse. The region was not originally Arab — its Arabization was a consequence of the inclusion of Palestine within the rapidly expanding Arab Empire conquered by Arabian tribes and their local allies in the first millennium, most significantly during the Islamic conquest of Syria in the 7th century. Palestine, then a Hellenized region controlled by the Byzantine empire, with a large Christian population, came under the political and cultural influence of Arabic-speaking Muslim dynasties, including the Kurdish Ayyubids. From the conquest down to the 11th century, half of the world's Christians lived under the new Muslim order and there was no attempt for that period to convert them.[86] Over time, nonetheless, much of the existing population of Palestine was Arabized and gradually converted to Islam.[38] Arab populations had existed in Palestine prior to the conquest, and some of these local Arab tribes and Bedouin fought as allies of Byzantium in resisting the invasion, which the archaeological evidence indicates was a 'peaceful conquest', and the newcomers were allowed to settle in the old urban areas. Theories of population decline compensated by the importation of foreign populations are not confirmed by the archaeological record[87][88] Like other "Arabized" Arab nations the Arab identity of Palestinians, largely based on linguistic and cultural affiliation, is independent of the existence of any actual Arabian origins. The Palestinian population has grown dramatically. For several centuries during the Ottoman period the population in Palestine declined and fluctuated between 150,000 and 250,000 inhabitants, and it was only in the 19th century that a rapid population growth began to occur.[

Pre-Arab/Islamic Influences on the Palestinian national identity
While Palestinian culture is primarily Arab and Islamic, many Palestinians identify with earlier civilizations that inhabited the land of Palestine.[90] According to Walid Khalidi, in Ottoman times "the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial."

Similarly Ali Qleibo, a Palestinian anthropologist, argues:

"Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabataeans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and Western European Crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and the Mongol raids of the late 1200s, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture."[90]

George Antonius, founder of modern Arab nationalist history, wrote in his seminal 1938 book The Arab Awakening:

"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[91]

American historian Bernard Lewis writes:

"Clearly, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Middle East, the modern inhabitants include among their ancestors those who lived in the country in antiquity. Equally obviously, the demographic mix was greatly modified over the centuries by migration, deportation, immigration, and settlement. This was particularly true in Palestine, where the population was transformed by such events as the Jewish rebellion against Rome and its suppression, the Arab conquest, the coming and going of the Crusaders, the devastation and resettlement of the coastlands by the Mamluk and Turkish regimes, and, from the nineteenth century, by extensive migrations from both within and from outside the region. Through invasion and deportation, and successive changes of rule and of culture, the face of the Palestinian population changed several times. No doubt, the original inhabitants were never entirely obliterated, but in the course of time they were successively Judaized, Christianized, and Islamized. Their language was transformed to Hebrew, then to Aramaic, then to Arabic."[92]

 

[Shusha]

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Okay. So ALL of us are saying the same thing. So why are you attributing evil intent to Sixties or rylah?

 

[Coyote]

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Okay. So ALL of us are saying the same thing. So why are you attributing evil intent to Sixties or rylah?

Where is Sixties saying that? I am actually not at all sure what Rylah is saying but Sixties is very much marginalizing it and insisting they invaded from the Arabian Peninsula. Why are you insisting she says differently when she isn’t?

 

[Sixties Fan]

.,l.,.m

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Again, it is not a matter of how many Jews, Druze, Samaritan or Bedouins have married or converted to Islam, and are now being identified as Arabs.

It is a VERY SMALL percentage, therefore it does not make the Palestinian Arabs on an equal foot with the Jews as being indigenous, anymore than it makes those who came from Spain indigenous of any of the Spanish countries which now exist, no matter how many have married and mixed with the indigenous population.

And you know it is a “very small percentage” how, exactly?

Palestinians - Wikipedia

Origins
See also: Demographic history of Palestine (region)
The origins of Palestinians are complex and diverse. The region was not originally Arab — its Arabization was a consequence of the inclusion of Palestine within the rapidly expanding Arab Empire conquered by Arabian tribes and their local allies in the first millennium, most significantly during the Islamic conquest of Syria in the 7th century. Palestine, then a Hellenized region controlled by the Byzantine empire, with a large Christian population, came under the political and cultural influence of Arabic-speaking Muslim dynasties, including the Kurdish Ayyubids. From the conquest down to the 11th century, half of the world's Christians lived under the new Muslim order and there was no attempt for that period to convert them.[86] Over time, nonetheless, much of the existing population of Palestine was Arabized and gradually converted to Islam.[38] Arab populations had existed in Palestine prior to the conquest, and some of these local Arab tribes and Bedouin fought as allies of Byzantium in resisting the invasion, which the archaeological evidence indicates was a 'peaceful conquest', and the newcomers were allowed to settle in the old urban areas. Theories of population decline compensated by the importation of foreign populations are not confirmed by the archaeological record[87][88] Like other "Arabized" Arab nations the Arab identity of Palestinians, largely based on linguistic and cultural affiliation, is independent of the existence of any actual Arabian origins. The Palestinian population has grown dramatically. For several centuries during the Ottoman period the population in Palestine declined and fluctuated between 150,000 and 250,000 inhabitants, and it was only in the 19th century that a rapid population growth began to occur.[

Pre-Arab/Islamic Influences on the Palestinian national identity
While Palestinian culture is primarily Arab and Islamic, many Palestinians identify with earlier civilizations that inhabited the land of Palestine.[90] According to Walid Khalidi, in Ottoman times "the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial."

Similarly Ali Qleibo, a Palestinian anthropologist, argues:

"Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabataeans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and Western European Crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and the Mongol raids of the late 1200s, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture."[90]

George Antonius, founder of modern Arab nationalist history, wrote in his seminal 1938 book The Arab Awakening:

"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[91]

American historian Bernard Lewis writes:

"Clearly, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Middle East, the modern inhabitants include among their ancestors those who lived in the country in antiquity. Equally obviously, the demographic mix was greatly modified over the centuries by migration, deportation, immigration, and settlement. This was particularly true in Palestine, where the population was transformed by such events as the Jewish rebellion against Rome and its suppression, the Arab conquest, the coming and going of the Crusaders, the devastation and resettlement of the coastlands by the Mamluk and Turkish regimes, and, from the nineteenth century, by extensive migrations from both within and from outside the region. Through invasion and deportation, and successive changes of rule and of culture, the face of the Palestinian population changed several times. No doubt, the original inhabitants were never entirely obliterated, but in the course of time they were successively Judaized, Christianized, and Islamized. Their language was transformed to Hebrew, then to Aramaic, then to Arabic."[92]

Yes, it includes those who were forced to convert or converted out of fear, but in the whole, as in all of Jewish History until modernity, Jews have held strong to their history, culture and religion in small groups.

Why do you think the Jews of Mesopotamia, those who were taken to Babylon, remained Jews for 2500 years, until expelled in 1950?

Or how did the European Jews survive? By intermarrying as much as you assume they did?

The answer: No.

Most of the Jewish people, anywhere in the world, have held on to their heritage, and many who were forced to convert still embrace their Judaism and hide it while they still practice it, out of fear, caused by the endless Inquisition forced on them in Europe, and the oppression and forced conversions also caused in the Muslim world.

Do you realize that somehow, you may be attempting to say that "most Jews" converted to Islam or Christianity and married non Jews in the Land of Israel, and therefore the "Palestinian People" are really an almost total mix of people for the past 1400 years or so?

Except that there is no truth to it, and history, books, records, all of them attest to it.

 

[Coyote]

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Again, it is not a matter of how many Jews, Druze, Samaritan or Bedouins have married or converted to Islam, and are now being identified as Arabs.

It is a VERY SMALL percentage, therefore it does not make the Palestinian Arabs on an equal foot with the Jews as being indigenous, anymore than it makes those who came from Spain indigenous of any of the Spanish countries which now exist, no matter how many have married and mixed with the indigenous population.

So..you are saying indigenous people who have mixed with non indigenous people are no longer indigenous? That is a real pitfall you know.

 

[Coyote]

.,l.,.m

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Again, it is not a matter of how many Jews, Druze, Samaritan or Bedouins have married or converted to Islam, and are now being identified as Arabs.

It is a VERY SMALL percentage, therefore it does not make the Palestinian Arabs on an equal foot with the Jews as being indigenous, anymore than it makes those who came from Spain indigenous of any of the Spanish countries which now exist, no matter how many have married and mixed with the indigenous population.

And you know it is a “very small percentage” how, exactly?

Palestinians - Wikipedia

Origins
See also: Demographic history of Palestine (region)
The origins of Palestinians are complex and diverse. The region was not originally Arab — its Arabization was a consequence of the inclusion of Palestine within the rapidly expanding Arab Empire conquered by Arabian tribes and their local allies in the first millennium, most significantly during the Islamic conquest of Syria in the 7th century. Palestine, then a Hellenized region controlled by the Byzantine empire, with a large Christian population, came under the political and cultural influence of Arabic-speaking Muslim dynasties, including the Kurdish Ayyubids. From the conquest down to the 11th century, half of the world's Christians lived under the new Muslim order and there was no attempt for that period to convert them.[86] Over time, nonetheless, much of the existing population of Palestine was Arabized and gradually converted to Islam.[38] Arab populations had existed in Palestine prior to the conquest, and some of these local Arab tribes and Bedouin fought as allies of Byzantium in resisting the invasion, which the archaeological evidence indicates was a 'peaceful conquest', and the newcomers were allowed to settle in the old urban areas. Theories of population decline compensated by the importation of foreign populations are not confirmed by the archaeological record[87][88] Like other "Arabized" Arab nations the Arab identity of Palestinians, largely based on linguistic and cultural affiliation, is independent of the existence of any actual Arabian origins. The Palestinian population has grown dramatically. For several centuries during the Ottoman period the population in Palestine declined and fluctuated between 150,000 and 250,000 inhabitants, and it was only in the 19th century that a rapid population growth began to occur.[

Pre-Arab/Islamic Influences on the Palestinian national identity
While Palestinian culture is primarily Arab and Islamic, many Palestinians identify with earlier civilizations that inhabited the land of Palestine.[90] According to Walid Khalidi, in Ottoman times "the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial."

Similarly Ali Qleibo, a Palestinian anthropologist, argues:

"Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabataeans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and Western European Crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and the Mongol raids of the late 1200s, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture."[90]

George Antonius, founder of modern Arab nationalist history, wrote in his seminal 1938 book The Arab Awakening:

"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[91]

American historian Bernard Lewis writes:

"Clearly, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Middle East, the modern inhabitants include among their ancestors those who lived in the country in antiquity. Equally obviously, the demographic mix was greatly modified over the centuries by migration, deportation, immigration, and settlement. This was particularly true in Palestine, where the population was transformed by such events as the Jewish rebellion against Rome and its suppression, the Arab conquest, the coming and going of the Crusaders, the devastation and resettlement of the coastlands by the Mamluk and Turkish regimes, and, from the nineteenth century, by extensive migrations from both within and from outside the region. Through invasion and deportation, and successive changes of rule and of culture, the face of the Palestinian population changed several times. No doubt, the original inhabitants were never entirely obliterated, but in the course of time they were successively Judaized, Christianized, and Islamized. Their language was transformed to Hebrew, then to Aramaic, then to Arabic."[92]

Yes, it includes those who were forced to convert or converted out of fear, but in the whole, as in all of Jewish History until modernity, Jews have held strong to their history, culture and religion in small groups.

Why do you think the Jews of Mesopotamia, those who were taken to Babylon, remained Jews for 2500 years, until expelled in 1950?

Or how did the European Jews survive? By intermarrying as much as you assume they did?

The answer: No.

Most of the Jewish people, anywhere in the world, have held on to their heritage, and many who were forced to convert still embrace their Judaism and hide it while they still practice it, out of fear, caused by the endless Inquisition forced on them in Europe, and the oppression and forced conversions also caused in the Muslim world.

Do you realize that somehow, you may be attempting to say that "most Jews" converted to Islam or Christianity and married non Jews in the Land of Israel, and therefore the "Palestinian People" are really an almost total mix of people for the past 1400 years or so?

Except that there is no truth to it, and history, books, records, all of them attest to it.

Umh...excuse me but where am I saying most Jews? Are you saying that the only people that lived there were Jews? Get real. The region was a melting pot of people’s and cultures for thousands of years.

Jews survived because they preserved their culture regardless of where they lived and who they married.

And yes. I am saying the Palestinians ARE a mix of all those peoples.

 

[Shusha]

"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[91]

Replacement ideology. Imagine if I claimed that North America is Scottish because the Scottish people intermarried with the First Nations peoples. Its a deliberate falsehood in order to claim a non-existent history.

 

[Sixties Fan]

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Okay. So ALL of us are saying the same thing. So why are you attributing evil intent to Sixties or rylah?

Where is Sixties saying that? I am actually not at all sure what Rylah is saying but Sixties is very much marginalizing it and insisting they invaded from the Arabian Peninsula. Why are you insisting she says differently when she isn’t?

I would swear that Susha said that the Arab Palestinians are an invading force from somewhere (and yes, I have said and will say again, Arabia) and a small number of indigenous people who intermarried with the Arabs.

And perhaps, you are not counting that most of those who are now considered Palestinian Arabs, immigrated at the end of the 19th century until 1948, from Arabia, Egypt, Bosnia and many other places.

Therefore, the majority of the Arab Palestinians continues to be non indigenous, but new to the area, and caught in what happened post WWI when the Ottoman land got divided into Mandates.

The Hashemites are clearly not Palestinians, as they came directly from Arabia around WWI time.

So, why think that most Arabs, if not all, Palestinians or not...... have been there for thousands of years, or have had any connection to the land before they arrived there , or stepped on it, or lived on it for thousands of years, therefore having the right to call the whole land theirs, which is exactly what the Arab Palestinian leadership, since 1948, has been doing?

 

[Coyote]

"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[91]

Replacement ideology. Imagine if I claimed that North America is Scottish because the Scottish people intermarried with the First Nations peoples. Its a deliberate falsehood in order to claim a non-existent history.

Exactly HOW? What specifically is false?

 

[Coyote]

See what I mean Shusha ? According to Sixties Palestinians are all descendants of invading Arabs. But it is a “misuse” of genetics to point out that isn’t exactly so?

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Okay. So ALL of us are saying the same thing. So why are you attributing evil intent to Sixties or rylah?

Where is Sixties saying that? I am actually not at all sure what Rylah is saying but Sixties is very much marginalizing it and insisting they invaded from the Arabian Peninsula. Why are you insisting she says differently when she isn’t?

I would swear that Susha said that the Arab Palestinians are an invading force from somewhere (and yes, I have said and will say again, Arabia) and a small number of indigenous people who intermarried with the Arabs.

And perhaps, you are not counting that most of those who are now considered Palestinian Arabs, immigrated at the end of the 19th century until 1948, from Arabia, Egypt, Bosnia and many other places.

Therefore, the majority of the Arab Palestinians continues to be non indigenous, but new to the area, and caught in what happened post WWI when the Ottoman land got divided into Mandates.

The Hashemites are clearly not Palestinians, as they came directly from Arabia around WWI time.

So, why think that most Arabs, if not all, Palestinians or not...... have been there for thousands of years, or have had any connection to the land before they arrived there , or stepped on it, or lived on it for thousands of years, therefore having the right to call the whole land theirs, which is exactly what the Arab Palestinian leadership, since 1948, has been doing?

Most of those? While there was some immigration, it is by no means “most” (and genetics does bear that out). That is as often used a lie as the opposite claim that most of the Jews were European immigrants.

 

[Shusha]

So..you are saying indigenous people who have mixed with non indigenous people are no longer indigenous?

That is EXACTLY what we are saying. If you remove the qualities of indigeneity (the culture) then you are not part of the group of people who can claim indigeneity. Otherwise, being indigenous literally means nothing. Its just whatever mix of people who happen to live in a particular place.

 

[Shusha]

"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[91]

Replacement ideology. Imagine if I claimed that North America is Scottish because the Scottish people intermarried with the First Nations peoples. Its a deliberate falsehood in order to claim a non-existent history.

Exactly HOW? What specifically is false?

They CHANGED the meaning of the word. Try it this way: "The Scots connection with Canada goes back uninterrupted to the earliest historic times."

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yes. And also certainly contrary to fact. The Arab Palestinians are the result of an invading culture (that would be the Arabs, whose origins are elsewhere) and the local indigenous peoples (the culture who originated in that place before invading cultures arrived). Surely, you are not going DENY that, are you?!

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Okay. So ALL of us are saying the same thing. So why are you attributing evil intent to Sixties or rylah?

Where is Sixties saying that? I am actually not at all sure what Rylah is saying but Sixties is very much marginalizing it and insisting they invaded from the Arabian Peninsula. Why are you insisting she says differently when she isn’t?

I would swear that Susha said that the Arab Palestinians are an invading force from somewhere (and yes, I have said and will say again, Arabia) and a small number of indigenous people who intermarried with the Arabs.

And perhaps, you are not counting that most of those who are now considered Palestinian Arabs, immigrated at the end of the 19th century until 1948, from Arabia, Egypt, Bosnia and many other places.

Therefore, the majority of the Arab Palestinians continues to be non indigenous, but new to the area, and caught in what happened post WWI when the Ottoman land got divided into Mandates.

The Hashemites are clearly not Palestinians, as they came directly from Arabia around WWI time.

So, why think that most Arabs, if not all, Palestinians or not...... have been there for thousands of years, or have had any connection to the land before they arrived there , or stepped on it, or lived on it for thousands of years, therefore having the right to call the whole land theirs, which is exactly what the Arab Palestinian leadership, since 1948, has been doing?

Most of those? While there was some immigration, it is by no means “most” (and genetics does bear that out). That is as often used a lie as the opposite claim that most of the Jews were European immigrants.

Again, you do not have the numbers, and you do not have the genetics to prove that most of them trace their indigenous status to the Land of Israel.

Let us just say, that thanks to Jewish immigration and starting to work on recreating their Nation, many jobs were created and many, many, many Arab and other Muslims immigrated thanks to those jobs.

Not to count that even before the white Paper was signed, the British closed their eyes to the Arab, Bosnian, wherever they came from Muslims who immigrated en masse into the Mandate, while the British kept the Jewish immigration to a minimum going against what the Mandate required.

 

[Coyote]

"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[91]

Replacement ideology. Imagine if I claimed that North America is Scottish because the Scottish people intermarried with the First Nations peoples. Its a deliberate falsehood in order to claim a non-existent history.

Exactly HOW? What specifically is false?

They CHANGED the meaning of the word. Try it this way: "The Scots connection with Canada goes back uninterrupted to the earliest historic times."

I am not seeing it because unlike the Scottish example, there is a far more history then is acknowledged with the politization of so much of the history by both sides in this conflict.

The Arab connection to the region was like that of many other peoples with the movement of trade, populations, culture etc

Palestine | History, People, & Religion
The reign of Solomon (mid-10th century) represents the culmination of Israelite political history. Though Solomon gradually lost control over outlying territories conquered by David, he was extraordinarily successful in organizing the economic life of the country. He joined forces with Hiram of Tyre, who was leading the Phoenicians toward the exploitation of Mediterranean trade. Expeditions to Ophir, a region probably in either East Africa or India, brought items of wealth such as gold, peacocks, and sandalwood to Palestine. At the same time, the Israelite king entered into trade relations with the Arabs as far south as Sheba, or Sabaʿ (modern Yemen). These activities would have been impossible but for the development of new principles in shipbuilding and for the recent domestication of the Arabian camel and its use in the caravan trade.

 

[Coyote]

No. Because that is basically what I have always said if anyone bothered to listen.

Okay. So ALL of us are saying the same thing. So why are you attributing evil intent to Sixties or rylah?

Where is Sixties saying that? I am actually not at all sure what Rylah is saying but Sixties is very much marginalizing it and insisting they invaded from the Arabian Peninsula. Why are you insisting she says differently when she isn’t?

I would swear that Susha said that the Arab Palestinians are an invading force from somewhere (and yes, I have said and will say again, Arabia) and a small number of indigenous people who intermarried with the Arabs.

And perhaps, you are not counting that most of those who are now considered Palestinian Arabs, immigrated at the end of the 19th century until 1948, from Arabia, Egypt, Bosnia and many other places.

Therefore, the majority of the Arab Palestinians continues to be non indigenous, but new to the area, and caught in what happened post WWI when the Ottoman land got divided into Mandates.

The Hashemites are clearly not Palestinians, as they came directly from Arabia around WWI time.

So, why think that most Arabs, if not all, Palestinians or not...... have been there for thousands of years, or have had any connection to the land before they arrived there , or stepped on it, or lived on it for thousands of years, therefore having the right to call the whole land theirs, which is exactly what the Arab Palestinian leadership, since 1948, has been doing?

Most of those? While there was some immigration, it is by no means “most” (and genetics does bear that out). That is as often used a lie as the opposite claim that most of the Jews were European immigrants.

Again, you do not have the numbers, and you do not have the genetics to prove that most of them trace their indigenous status to the Land of Israel.

Let us just say, that thanks to Jewish immigration and starting to work on recreating their Nation, many jobs were created and many, many, many Arab and other Muslims immigrated thanks to those jobs.

Not to count that even before the white Paper was signed, the British closed their eyes to the Arab, Bosnian, wherever they came from Muslims who immigrated en masse into the Mandate, while the British kept the Jewish immigration to a minimum going against what the Mandate required.

You have provided no numbers, just broad statements claiming most of the Palestinians are recent immigrants.

 

[Sixties Fan]

"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[91]

Replacement ideology. Imagine if I claimed that North America is Scottish because the Scottish people intermarried with the First Nations peoples. Its a deliberate falsehood in order to claim a non-existent history.

Exactly HOW? What specifically is false?

They CHANGED the meaning of the word. Try it this way: "The Scots connection with Canada goes back uninterrupted to the earliest historic times."

I am not seeing it because unlike the Scottish example, there is a far more history then is acknowledged with the politization of so much of the history by both sides in this conflict.

The Arab connection to the region was like that of many other peoples with the movement of trade, populations, culture etc

Palestine | History, People, & Religion
The reign of Solomon (mid-10th century) represents the culmination of Israelite political history. Though Solomon gradually lost control over outlying territories conquered by David, he was extraordinarily successful in organizing the economic life of the country. He joined forces with Hiram of Tyre, who was leading the Phoenicians toward the exploitation of Mediterranean trade. Expeditions to Ophir, a region probably in either East Africa or India, brought items of wealth such as gold, peacocks, and sandalwood to Palestine. At the same time, the Israelite king entered into trade relations with the Arabs as far south as Sheba, or Sabaʿ (modern Yemen). These activities would have been impossible but for the development of new principles in shipbuilding and for the recent domestication of the Arabian camel and its use in the caravan trade.

Trade does not make the Arabs a part of the population on the Land of Israel.

Trade is trade. Traders come and go back. The Jews did the same. The Chinese did the same. All in the region did the same.
It does not mean that there was a large, or even small presence of those known as Arabs on the Land of Israel itself.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Okay. So ALL of us are saying the same thing. So why are you attributing evil intent to Sixties or rylah?

Where is Sixties saying that? I am actually not at all sure what Rylah is saying but Sixties is very much marginalizing it and insisting they invaded from the Arabian Peninsula. Why are you insisting she says differently when she isn’t?

I would swear that Susha said that the Arab Palestinians are an invading force from somewhere (and yes, I have said and will say again, Arabia) and a small number of indigenous people who intermarried with the Arabs.

And perhaps, you are not counting that most of those who are now considered Palestinian Arabs, immigrated at the end of the 19th century until 1948, from Arabia, Egypt, Bosnia and many other places.

Therefore, the majority of the Arab Palestinians continues to be non indigenous, but new to the area, and caught in what happened post WWI when the Ottoman land got divided into Mandates.

The Hashemites are clearly not Palestinians, as they came directly from Arabia around WWI time.

So, why think that most Arabs, if not all, Palestinians or not...... have been there for thousands of years, or have had any connection to the land before they arrived there , or stepped on it, or lived on it for thousands of years, therefore having the right to call the whole land theirs, which is exactly what the Arab Palestinian leadership, since 1948, has been doing?

Most of those? While there was some immigration, it is by no means “most” (and genetics does bear that out). That is as often used a lie as the opposite claim that most of the Jews were European immigrants.

Again, you do not have the numbers, and you do not have the genetics to prove that most of them trace their indigenous status to the Land of Israel.

Let us just say, that thanks to Jewish immigration and starting to work on recreating their Nation, many jobs were created and many, many, many Arab and other Muslims immigrated thanks to those jobs.

Not to count that even before the white Paper was signed, the British closed their eyes to the Arab, Bosnian, wherever they came from Muslims who immigrated en masse into the Mandate, while the British kept the Jewish immigration to a minimum going against what the Mandate required.

You have provided no numbers, just broad statements claiming most of the Palestinians are recent immigrants.

No British records or anything will appease you. Why bother if you are not interested in the facts of migration or immigration
during those times.