Who are the Israelis?

[Sixties Fan]

Oh, look, you seem to live in a bubble. Check past 2005.

List of Palestinian suicide attacks - Wikipedia

2001 85 476 561 40
2002 238 114 352 47
2003 145 83 228 23
2004 98 33 131 17
2005 33 60 93 9
2006 15 99 114 3
2007 3 n/a n/a 1
2008 1 22 23 1
2015 0 1 1 1
2016 0 20 20 1
So, what were the reductions in Israeli attacks over the same period?

You mean self defence?

Resist This - Menahem Begin harsh response to demands for an Arab state

He was a former terrorist you know.

You do not know the meaning of the word Terrorist.

Fighting for one's survival against not only the Arabs but the British is not Terrorism.

Terrorism is when one attack, endlessly, all the people in one land with the intent of killing them all and stealing all their property and land.

That title belongs to Al Husseini, Arafat, Abbas, Hamas, Hezbollah, and many others, who have been working very hard for almost 100 years to make that Israel is destroyed and all Jews are gone.

Pay attention to the endless archeological terrorism on Jewish antiquity practiced by Arabs on all things Jewish.

 

[Coyote]

The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.

It is an in interesting diversion.

It is like those who blame Jews around the world for Israel’s actions. They blame Palestinians for what Arab countries did to their Jews. So they insist that we should fight for compensation for all refugees, which is right and just. But I never hear them actually stand up for the Palestinians.

I see You like making broad generalizations to erase any real proportions of the problem, in effect You'll always find a way to equate between a mouse and an elephant.

Here're some facts for You -
Jews didn't expel Arabs from entire the middle east - it were the Arabs
Jews didn't gain 99.9% of the land and property - it were the Arabs
Jews didn't call to exterminate Arabs on several continents - it were the Arabs
Jews were not represented collectively by 22 countries, it were the Arabs
Jews didn't demand the holiest city to the Arabs, it were Arabs who banned Jews from their holy sites
Jew didn't force Arabs to pay a skull tax and 2 additional taxes for simply being not Jews - it were the Arabs
Jews didn't collectively incite for pogroms around the Arab world - it were the Arabs .
Jews didn't dominate the middle east and spread their religion by sword, it were the Arabs
Jews never claimed any land that was outside of their indigenous homeland - it were the Arab invaders
Jews didn't participate in genocide of half Arab population in the world - it were the Arabs

A minority group was fighting for survival and independence, the majority for complete domination of the entire continent. The majority completely denied all rights to another, while the minority accepted their enemies in their society and provides them with the highest quality of life than in any Arab country. The minority that lost everything proposes compensation, the majority that gained everything keeps demanding to be paid protection at constant threat of violence.

And here's the main one - Israel has always proposed compensation as a standard solution - Arabs never made any similar gestures, they simply kept attempting to erase Israel in a joint military effort.

This cynical attempt to make a false analogy between extermination of an entire ethnic minority from 3 continents to expelling what seems to be less than 1% of the sadistic dominating majority that initiated the war, is no different than Holocaust denial.

Did the Palestinians expel Jews fron all those states? No.

Palestinians are Arabs. They are Muslims. They are all One Big Nation. That is how they think of themselves.

They had one common idea.
Keep the Jews from being sovereign over their own ancient homeland.
That idea started in 1920 with the first riots of Arabs against Jews.

All the Arab states did after 1948 was to use that same ideology after Israel declared Independence and continuously force as many Jews into Israel in order to destroy Israel economically.

The Arabs assumed, after they did not defeat Israel with their military, to get rid of their Jews, inundate Israel with them and destroy Israel that way.

One cannot divorce the Arabs of the Mandate for Palestine from all other Arabs, they are one and the same. That, regardless of the fact that Egypt took Gaza and could not care less about the Arabs there, and Jordan took Judea and Samaria in 1948, and could not care about the Arabs there for the 19 years it was under its power.


This is a MUSLIM war against Jews, where Muslims cannot stand that the Jews became sovereign of land conquered by Muslims, and even worse, that Arab Muslims would now be residents of a Jewish State.


Repeating the nonsense that Palestinians did not expel the Jews from Arab States, does not jive, because it is exactly a Palestinian, Al-Husseiini, who started the riots and war against the Jewish right to be sovereign over their ancient homeland with the Mandate for Palestine.

Jordan was not a country, but got a huge chunk of Jewish land in 1925 and murdered or expelled all its Jews from that vast land.

Should we forget the Arabs attacking Jews in Hebron in 1929 and making that city Jew Free after that, until 1967?


The Arab States have nothing to do with it?

Nothing, except total approval, invasion, attacks on their Jewish population, their expulsion......all because the Jews DARED to build and fight for the recreation of their Nation.


Imagine that......

Palestinians area hodge podge of peoples who include the original indiginous peoples of the area. Genetics bears that out. Maybe it is time to quit this silly argument who's only purpose is to disenfranchise on or the other.

Imagine that!

 

[Coyote]

2001 85 476 561 40
2002 238 114 352 47
2003 145 83 228 23
2004 98 33 131 17
2005 33 60 93 9
2006 15 99 114 3
2007 3 n/a n/a 1
2008 1 22 23 1
2015 0 1 1 1
2016 0 20 20 1
So, what were the reductions in Israeli attacks over the same period?

You mean self defence?

Resist This - Menahem Begin harsh response to demands for an Arab state

He was a former terrorist you know.

You do not know the meaning of the word Terrorist.

Fighting for one's survival against not only the Arabs but the British is not Terrorism.

Terrorism is when one attack, endlessly, all the people in one land with the intent of killing them all and stealing all their property and land.

That title belongs to Al Husseini, Arafat, Abbas, Hamas, Hezbollah, and many others, who have been working very hard for almost 100 years to make that Israel is destroyed and all Jews are gone.

Pay attention to the endless archeological terrorism on Jewish antiquity practiced by Arabs on all things Jewish.

I know the meaning of the word terrorist. Generally people who are involved in market place bombings and other civilian targets are considered terrorists.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.

It is an in interesting diversion.

It is like those who blame Jews around the world for Israel’s actions. They blame Palestinians for what Arab countries did to their Jews. So they insist that we should fight for compensation for all refugees, which is right and just. But I never hear them actually stand up for the Palestinians.

I see You like making broad generalizations to erase any real proportions of the problem, in effect You'll always find a way to equate between a mouse and an elephant.

Here're some facts for You -
Jews didn't expel Arabs from entire the middle east - it were the Arabs
Jews didn't gain 99.9% of the land and property - it were the Arabs
Jews didn't call to exterminate Arabs on several continents - it were the Arabs
Jews were not represented collectively by 22 countries, it were the Arabs
Jews didn't demand the holiest city to the Arabs, it were Arabs who banned Jews from their holy sites
Jew didn't force Arabs to pay a skull tax and 2 additional taxes for simply being not Jews - it were the Arabs
Jews didn't collectively incite for pogroms around the Arab world - it were the Arabs .
Jews didn't dominate the middle east and spread their religion by sword, it were the Arabs
Jews never claimed any land that was outside of their indigenous homeland - it were the Arab invaders
Jews didn't participate in genocide of half Arab population in the world - it were the Arabs

A minority group was fighting for survival and independence, the majority for complete domination of the entire continent. The majority completely denied all rights to another, while the minority accepted their enemies in their society and provides them with the highest quality of life than in any Arab country. The minority that lost everything proposes compensation, the majority that gained everything keeps demanding to be paid protection at constant threat of violence.

And here's the main one - Israel has always proposed compensation as a standard solution - Arabs never made any similar gestures, they simply kept attempting to erase Israel in a joint military effort.

This cynical attempt to make a false analogy between extermination of an entire ethnic minority from 3 continents to expelling what seems to be less than 1% of the sadistic dominating majority that initiated the war, is no different than Holocaust denial.

Did the Palestinians expel Jews fron all those states? No.

Palestinians are Arabs. They are Muslims. They are all One Big Nation. That is how they think of themselves.

They had one common idea.
Keep the Jews from being sovereign over their own ancient homeland.
That idea started in 1920 with the first riots of Arabs against Jews.

All the Arab states did after 1948 was to use that same ideology after Israel declared Independence and continuously force as many Jews into Israel in order to destroy Israel economically.

The Arabs assumed, after they did not defeat Israel with their military, to get rid of their Jews, inundate Israel with them and destroy Israel that way.

One cannot divorce the Arabs of the Mandate for Palestine from all other Arabs, they are one and the same. That, regardless of the fact that Egypt took Gaza and could not care less about the Arabs there, and Jordan took Judea and Samaria in 1948, and could not care about the Arabs there for the 19 years it was under its power.


This is a MUSLIM war against Jews, where Muslims cannot stand that the Jews became sovereign of land conquered by Muslims, and even worse, that Arab Muslims would now be residents of a Jewish State.


Repeating the nonsense that Palestinians did not expel the Jews from Arab States, does not jive, because it is exactly a Palestinian, Al-Husseiini, who started the riots and war against the Jewish right to be sovereign over their ancient homeland with the Mandate for Palestine.

Jordan was not a country, but got a huge chunk of Jewish land in 1925 and murdered or expelled all its Jews from that vast land.

Should we forget the Arabs attacking Jews in Hebron in 1929 and making that city Jew Free after that, until 1967?


The Arab States have nothing to do with it?

Nothing, except total approval, invasion, attacks on their Jewish population, their expulsion......all because the Jews DARED to build and fight for the recreation of their Nation.


Imagine that......

Palestinians area hodge podge of peoples who include the original indiginous peoples of the area. Genetics bears that out. Maybe it is time to quit this silly argument who's only purpose is to disenfranchise on or the other.

Imagine that!

Palestinian Arabs are NOT a hodge lodge of people. Only in your mind.

Genetics does not bear that out. You read and believe what you wish to believe.

Tell the Arabs to stop saying that the Jews are nothing but European Invaders colonizers.

That is perfect start.

Then maybe they will stop destroying any and all Jewish archeology and history and stop passing themselves as the ancient people of the land.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You mean self defence?

Resist This - Menahem Begin harsh response to demands for an Arab state

He was a former terrorist you know.

You do not know the meaning of the word Terrorist.

Fighting for one's survival against not only the Arabs but the British is not Terrorism.

Terrorism is when one attack, endlessly, all the people in one land with the intent of killing them all and stealing all their property and land.

That title belongs to Al Husseini, Arafat, Abbas, Hamas, Hezbollah, and many others, who have been working very hard for almost 100 years to make that Israel is destroyed and all Jews are gone.

Pay attention to the endless archeological terrorism on Jewish antiquity practiced by Arabs on all things Jewish.

I know the meaning of the word terrorist. Generally people who are involved in market place bombings and other civilian targets are considered terrorists.

No, Coyote. That is not the meaning of the word. And especially not when it comes to Israel, its fight to become Independent, something the other three Mandates did not have to go through at all, including Iraq with its three different groups of people......at least in the beginning of what became Iraq.

 

[rylah]

The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.

It is an in interesting diversion.

It is like those who blame Jews around the world for Israel’s actions. They blame Palestinians for what Arab countries did to their Jews. So they insist that we should fight for compensation for all refugees, which is right and just. But I never hear them actually stand up for the Palestinians.

I see You like making broad generalizations to erase any real proportions of the problem, in effect You'll always find a way to equate between a mouse and an elephant.

Here're some facts for You -
Jews didn't expel Arabs from entire the middle east - it were the Arabs
Jews didn't gain 99.9% of the land and property - it were the Arabs
Jews didn't call to exterminate Arabs on several continents - it were the Arabs
Jews were not represented collectively by 22 countries, it were the Arabs
Jews didn't demand the holiest city to the Arabs, it were Arabs who banned Jews from their holy sites
Jew didn't force Arabs to pay a skull tax and 2 additional taxes for simply being not Jews - it were the Arabs
Jews didn't collectively incite for pogroms around the Arab world - it were the Arabs .
Jews didn't dominate the middle east and spread their religion by sword, it were the Arabs
Jews never claimed any land that was outside of their indigenous homeland - it were the Arab invaders
Jews didn't participate in genocide of half Arab population in the world - it were the Arabs

A minority group was fighting for survival and independence, the majority for complete domination of the entire continent. The majority completely denied all rights to another, while the minority accepted their enemies in their society and provides them with the highest quality of life than in any Arab country. The minority that lost everything proposes compensation, the majority that gained everything keeps demanding to be paid protection at constant threat of violence.

And here's the main one - Israel has always proposed compensation as a standard solution - Arabs never made any similar gestures, they simply kept attempting to erase Israel in a joint military effort.

This cynical attempt to make a false analogy between extermination of an entire ethnic minority from 3 continents to expelling what seems to be less than 1% of the sadistic dominating majority that initiated the war, is no different than Holocaust denial.

Did the Palestinians expel Jews fron all those states? No.

Truly disgusting response!

Did Arabs murder 6 million Jews? No
Merely incited to genocide on 3 continents and ethnically cleansed 99% of them.

I find it mind boggling how You think of Yourself as some sort of underdog champion,
but look for excuses to genocide.

 

[rylah]

The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.

They definitely had all to do with the ethnic cleansing of Jews from their homes on their ancient homeland in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1948.

Don't be shy about naming Al-Husseini as your hero.

Just like Jews cleansed the Palestinians from their homeland.

What is your point?

Wait a sec, so Jews were not Palestinians?
This is exactly the root cause of the conflict - You're trying to hold the stick by both ends, exclude all non-Arabs from that category, and at the same time whine when Arabs are held responsible.

It's not even double standard, it's intentional obfuscation.

Wait a sec. If I had said Palistinians only you would have said I was denying Jews their rights as indiginous peoples. I am not playing that game with you.

You ARE plying games, and very poorly.
Are You saying You didn't just exclude Jews from that category?

Oh right this exactly what You did here, for all to see.

 

[rylah]

Oh, look, you seem to live in a bubble. Check past 2005.

List of Palestinian suicide attacks - Wikipedia

2001 85 476 561 40
2002 238 114 352 47
2003 145 83 228 23
2004 98 33 131 17
2005 33 60 93 9
2006 15 99 114 3
2007 3 n/a n/a 1
2008 1 22 23 1
2015 0 1 1 1
2016 0 20 20 1
So, what were the reductions in Israeli attacks over the same period?

You mean self defence?

Resist This - Menahem Begin harsh response to demands for an Arab state

He was a former terrorist you know.

And morally superior to You in every perceivable way:

You call for Caliphate, he gave land for peace.
You excuse genocide, he was its' victim.
You're dishonest, he was as straight as a ruler.
You're a foreign occupier, he was an indigenous Judean fighting for independence.

 

[Shusha]

The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.

That's an interesting argument. The Jewish people were exposed to persecution, oppression, pogroms, ethnic cleansing and attempted genocides all over the Middle East at the hands of Arabs. The Jewish people were fighting a war for existence against all of the Arab nations. Which side of that coin did the Arab Palestinians land on? Did they fight FOR the Arabs against the Jewish Palestinians? Or did they fight AGAINST the Arabs with the Jewish Palestinians?

 

[Shusha]

It is like those who blame Jews around the world for Israel’s actions. They blame Palestinians for what Arab countries did to their Jews.

It is not an equal comparison. The Jewish people have been under attack and threat of attack and threat of existence by multiple Arab nations -- not just Arab Palestine. We are not blaming Arab Palestinians for what other Arab countries did -- but we are INCLUDING Arab Palestine in those who threaten Israel's existence.

 

[Shusha]

And besides, I don't see a Jewish BDS demanding the right to return.

On the contrary. There IS a Jewish demand for return. The Jewish people just managed to succeed.

 

[Shusha]

[
Did the Palestinians expel Jews fron all those states? No.

Did the Arab Palestinians attempt to expel Jewish Palestinians from all of Palestine? Of course they did. They just failed. They are still attempting it. And they are still failing. Arab Palestinians are absolutely to be included in a much wider group of Arab nations which chose to persecute, oppress, cleanse and attempt genocide against the Jewish people.

 

[Shusha]

Palestinians area hodge podge of peoples who include the original indiginous peoples of the area. Genetics bears that out.

Not so. Not by a correct and standard universal definition of "indigenous". Genetics is nothing more than a modern nod to "racial purity" and it is an abhorrent way to measure people and assign rights to them. IMO.

Indigeity is based on culture and specifically is defined by a unique culture which originates in a specific territory and predates colonizing and invading cultures. An invading culture which overtakes an indigenous culture -- even if they show genetic signs in common with the indigenous culture -- does not become an indigenous culture. Its still an invading culture -- meaning the ORIGINS of that culture developed elsewhere.

You CAN make an excellent argument for Arab Palestinian identity and culture to have originated in that specific territory. Ryan Bellerose, an indigenous activist, does just that. He argues that Arab Palestinian culture arose in the late 1960's in that territory and it is through that mechanism that they become an indigenous culture.

You can have more than one indigenous culture on a land.

The Palestinians are not a hodge-podge of people. They are two very distinct cultures, perhaps both indigenous.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Palestinians area hodge podge of peoples who include the original indiginous peoples of the area. Genetics bears that out.

Not so. Not by a correct and standard universal definition of "indigenous". Genetics is nothing more than a modern nod to "racial purity" and it is an abhorrent way to measure people and assign rights to them. IMO.

Indigeity is based on culture and specifically is defined by a unique culture which originates in a specific territory and predates colonizing and invading cultures. An invading culture which overtakes an indigenous culture -- even if they show genetic signs in common with the indigenous culture -- does not become an indigenous culture. Its still an invading culture -- meaning the ORIGINS of that culture developed elsewhere.

You CAN make an excellent argument for Arab Palestinian identity and culture to have originated in that specific territory. Ryan Bellerose, an indigenous activist, does just that. He argues that Arab Palestinian culture arose in the late 1960's in that territory and it is through that mechanism that they become an indigenous culture.

You can have more than one indigenous culture on a land.

The Palestinians are not a hodge-podge of people. They are two very distinct cultures, perhaps both indigenous.

I think Abbas and many other leaders understand very well the meaning of the word indigenous, or native. Which explains the endless attempts to say that the Palestinian Arab people have been on that land for 5000, 10,000, 50,000 years. That they are the ancestors of all the people there. They are the Phillistines.
They are the Canaanites.

He knows what it means and why he needs to continue to say that, and at the same time destroy any evidence of Jewish history and culture on the land.

Hamas has even destroyed a Roman Port a few years ago, in Gaza. Romans not being indigenous, they did not care to have it mainly because it was not Muslim.

And that is their main identity. As Muslims. Then Arabs.

And the Arab history on the land, Canaan, is about 1400 years. But there is really no distinction between one Arab group and another, that I can see before WWI.

There is very little cultural distinction in the music, food, etc.

The Palestinian Arabs have only been given an identity since 1964. And that identity is trapped on wha their leaders want from them. Destroy Israel at any cost.

The struggle, the pain, the incitement, the hardship of being under so many Arab leaders who do have their well being at heart, but the same goal, ideology.......the end of Israel, getting rid of the Jews and all vestige of them, and taking over that 20% of land which used to be under Ottoman Muslim control.

Pre WWI, Post WWI. Too much of a difference between who the Arab Palestinians were, and what they are now, or were made to become.

 

[Shusha]

Palestinians area hodge podge of peoples who include the original indiginous peoples of the area. Genetics bears that out.

Not so. Not by a correct and standard universal definition of "indigenous". Genetics is nothing more than a modern nod to "racial purity" and it is an abhorrent way to measure people and assign rights to them. IMO.

Indigeity is based on culture and specifically is defined by a unique culture which originates in a specific territory and predates colonizing and invading cultures. An invading culture which overtakes an indigenous culture -- even if they show genetic signs in common with the indigenous culture -- does not become an indigenous culture. Its still an invading culture -- meaning the ORIGINS of that culture developed elsewhere.

You CAN make an excellent argument for Arab Palestinian identity and culture to have originated in that specific territory. Ryan Bellerose, an indigenous activist, does just that. He argues that Arab Palestinian culture arose in the late 1960's in that territory and it is through that mechanism that they become an indigenous culture.

You can have more than one indigenous culture on a land.

The Palestinians are not a hodge-podge of people. They are two very distinct cultures, perhaps both indigenous.

I think Abbas and many other leaders understand very well the meaning of the word indigenous, or native. Which explains the endless attempts to say that the Palestinian Arab people have been on that land for 5000, 10,000, 50,000 years. That they are the ancestors of all the people there. They are the Phillistines.
They are the Canaanites.

He knows what it means and why he needs to continue to say that, and at the same time destroy any evidence of Jewish history and culture on the land.

Hamas has even destroyed a Roman Port a few years ago, in Gaza. Romans not being indigenous, they did not care to have it mainly because it was not Muslim.

And that is their main identity. As Muslims. Then Arabs.

And the Arab history on the land, Canaan, is about 1400 years. But there is really no distinction between one Arab group and another, that I can see before WWI.

There is very little cultural distinction in the music, food, etc.

The Palestinian Arabs have only been given an identity since 1964. And that identity is trapped on wha their leaders want from them. Destroy Israel at any cost.

The struggle, the pain, the incitement, the hardship of being under so many Arab leaders who do have their well being at heart, but the same goal, ideology.......the end of Israel, getting rid of the Jews and all vestige of them, and taking over that 20% of land which used to be under Ottoman Muslim control.

Pre WWI, Post WWI. Too much of a difference between who the Arab Palestinians were, and what they are now, or were made to become.

There is no equivalency between the Jewish questioning of Arab Palestinian identity and the blatantly false, erasing replacement of Jewish history, monuments, people with Arab.

The one legitimately questions the culture and identity of West Bank Palestinians and Gaza Palestinians -- while not actually denying them rights -- given that it has not been strong enough to form a nation around that culture and identity and appears deeply entangled with a pan-Arab and pan-Muslim ideology and that the members of the culture themselves agree that they are no different from Jordanian Arabs or Syrian Arabs.

The other seeks to invert the entire history of the region with denial of Jewish presence and replacing anything apparently *cough cough* Jewish with Arab and then calling foul at "Judaization" of "Arab" places, names, monuments, history and characters.

There is no equivalency here. Its a wonder anyone falls for it.

 

[rylah]

Terror Victims Association Trump: "We Paid With Enough Victims for Peace"

The Almagor organization appeals in a letter to the White House to the President of the United States not to pressure Israel to accept another peace plan: "More than 1700 victims have been since the peace agreements with the Palestinians"

"Do not pressure Israel to accept another peace plan, we have already paid enough victims in exchange for peace," the organization wrote in a letter to the White House. "More than 1700 victims have been in peace since the peace agreements with the Palestinians, 10 times more than in the previous parallel period, we tried everything - the Oslo Accords and the Madrid agreements, and the more we sat with them, the more victims we got. In order to weaken us, to disintegrate us from within and to give hope to the leaders of terrorism and the ability to act against terrorists, the current situation is the most convenient - a kind of freezing and cooling of the sides. "

(Suicide terror attack scene in Jerusalem during the 2nd Intifada, photo by :Flash 90)

"As long as the other Palestinian side does not comply with the previous agreements signed in Oslo to stop terror, there is no point in continuing. When he uses the money we send him to spread messages of justification for terrorism, how can we ask the Israeli side to sit on the negotiating table? It is necessary to reevaluate and not to repeat past mistakes. Do you want us to return to the days of bus bombings? "

Channel 20 - "We Paid With Enough Victims for Peace"

 

[Coyote]

Palestinians area hodge podge of peoples who include the original indiginous peoples of the area. Genetics bears that out.

Not so. Not by a correct and standard universal definition of "indigenous". Genetics is nothing more than a modern nod to "racial purity" and it is an abhorrent way to measure people and assign rights to them. IMO.

Indigeity is based on culture and specifically is defined by a unique culture which originates in a specific territory and predates colonizing and invading cultures. An invading culture which overtakes an indigenous culture -- even if they show genetic signs in common with the indigenous culture -- does not become an indigenous culture. Its still an invading culture -- meaning the ORIGINS of that culture developed elsewhere.

You CAN make an excellent argument for Arab Palestinian identity and culture to have originated in that specific territory. Ryan Bellerose, an indigenous activist, does just that. He argues that Arab Palestinian culture arose in the late 1960's in that territory and it is through that mechanism that they become an indigenous culture.

You can have more than one indigenous culture on a land.

The Palestinians are not a hodge-podge of people. They are two very distinct cultures, perhaps both indigenous.

I think Abbas and many other leaders understand very well the meaning of the word indigenous, or native. Which explains the endless attempts to say that the Palestinian Arab people have been on that land for 5000, 10,000, 50,000 years. That they are the ancestors of all the people there. They are the Phillistines.
They are the Canaanites.

He knows what it means and why he needs to continue to say that, and at the same time destroy any evidence of Jewish history and culture on the land.

Hamas has even destroyed a Roman Port a few years ago, in Gaza. Romans not being indigenous, they did not care to have it mainly because it was not Muslim.

And that is their main identity. As Muslims. Then Arabs.

And the Arab history on the land, Canaan, is about 1400 years. But there is really no distinction between one Arab group and another, that I can see before WWI.

There is very little cultural distinction in the music, food, etc.

The Palestinian Arabs have only been given an identity since 1964. And that identity is trapped on wha their leaders want from them. Destroy Israel at any cost.

The struggle, the pain, the incitement, the hardship of being under so many Arab leaders who do have their well being at heart, but the same goal, ideology.......the end of Israel, getting rid of the Jews and all vestige of them, and taking over that 20% of land which used to be under Ottoman Muslim control.

Pre WWI, Post WWI. Too much of a difference between who the Arab Palestinians were, and what they are now, or were made to become.

There is no equivalency between the Jewish questioning of Arab Palestinian identity and the blatantly false, erasing replacement of Jewish history, monuments, people with Arab.

The one legitimately questions the culture and identity of West Bank Palestinians and Gaza Palestinians -- while not actually denying them rights -- given that it has not been strong enough to form a nation around that culture and identity and appears deeply entangled with a pan-Arab and pan-Muslim ideology and that the members of the culture themselves agree that they are no different from Jordanian Arabs or Syrian Arabs.

The other seeks to invert the entire history of the region with denial of Jewish presence and replacing anything apparently *cough cough* Jewish with Arab and then calling foul at "Judaization" of "Arab" places, names, monuments, history and characters.

There is no equivalency here. Its a wonder anyone falls for it.

It is a wonder you call such questioning “legitimate” when it’s only purpose is to deny identity. The difference is merely one of scale, not INTENT. Ask yourself, what purpose is there in perpetrating the “Palestinians are a fake people” canard? Why do people insist on pushing it?

What is their motive Shusha?

 

[Coyote]

Palestinians area hodge podge of peoples who include the original indiginous peoples of the area. Genetics bears that out.

Not so. Not by a correct and standard universal definition of "indigenous". Genetics is nothing more than a modern nod to "racial purity" and it is an abhorrent way to measure people and assign rights to them. IMO.

Indigeity is based on culture and specifically is defined by a unique culture which originates in a specific territory and predates colonizing and invading cultures. An invading culture which overtakes an indigenous culture -- even if they show genetic signs in common with the indigenous culture -- does not become an indigenous culture. Its still an invading culture -- meaning the ORIGINS of that culture developed elsewhere.

You CAN make an excellent argument for Arab Palestinian identity and culture to have originated in that specific territory. Ryan Bellerose, an indigenous activist, does just that. He argues that Arab Palestinian culture arose in the late 1960's in that territory and it is through that mechanism that they become an indigenous culture.

You can have more than one indigenous culture on a land.

The Palestinians are not a hodge-podge of people. They are two very distinct cultures, perhaps both indigenous.

Part of the problem here is the misuse of genetics. Genetics, like science is NEUTRAL. The misuse of it by some has now poisoned a perfectly valid scientific tool for studying the movements of ancient people unfortunately.

But I agree. You can have more than one indigenous people on a land which is what I have said from the beginning.

 

[Coyote]

[
Did the Palestinians expel Jews fron all those states? No.

Did the Arab Palestinians attempt to expel Jewish Palestinians from all of Palestine? Of course they did. They just failed. They are still attempting it. And they are still failing. Arab Palestinians are absolutely to be included in a much wider group of Arab nations which chose to persecute, oppress, cleanse and attempt genocide against the Jewish people.

There was a considerable effort on the part of Jews to expell a great many Palestinian Arabs. Looks like everyone was busy expelling.

And your use of the term genocide in this is as dishonest as when the pro pali’s use it against Israel. Genocide has a very specific meaning.

 

[Coyote]

2001 85 476 561 40
2002 238 114 352 47
2003 145 83 228 23
2004 98 33 131 17
2005 33 60 93 9
2006 15 99 114 3
2007 3 n/a n/a 1
2008 1 22 23 1
2015 0 1 1 1
2016 0 20 20 1
So, what were the reductions in Israeli attacks over the same period?

You mean self defence?

Resist This - Menahem Begin harsh response to demands for an Arab state

He was a former terrorist you know.

And morally superior to You in every perceivable way:

You call for Caliphate, he gave land for peace.
You excuse genocide, he was its' victim.
You're dishonest, he was as straight as a ruler.
You're a foreign occupier, he was an indigenous Judean fighting for independence.

Oh please you are so fucking dishonest there is no point in even attempting a serious discussion with you.

Where have I called for caliphate?
Where have I ever excused genocide?
What am I occupying?

If a man who’s leadership of Irgun was memorable for a huge increase in violence targeting civilians is “straight as a ruler” I question your own values.