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Whites Don't Speak for Asians, and Asians Who Pretend to Be White...

22lcidw

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I know you are subliterate, but try to concentrate. I don’t support rich white kids unfairly sneaking into elite universities.

but you're not terribly upset about it. Not as upset as you are about a black kid getting into an elite university on Affirmative Action.

Now please tell us why you are an anti-Asian bigot. What is it about your warped personality that causes you to cling to racist hate?

Except nothing is being taken away from an Asian kid by letting a black kid in.

The thing is Asians weren't brought over here in chains and experienced centuries of slavery followed by decades of Jim Crow. In fact, most of them came here voluntarily.

View attachment 503164

Also, do you give a Japanese the same treatment as a Filipino? That wouldn't seem fair, as Japan is a fairly advanced country, while the Philippines are a poor one (made worse by American Colonial exploitation).
When I was a bit younger and Catholic School much more a presence in older cities, they kept grade schools open in many areas with donations from people. Also many students from poorer areas were pout into Catholic High Schools with no costs or donations. The only rule is besides studying was do not cause any trouble. Education can be done. Discipline is needed and admitting that a percentage of kids to educate will not happen and that is reality would make for the greater good of others having a better life.
 

Mac-7

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This is for you too.

One of the great speeches of all time was delivered at the Asian Law Caucus Banquet in April of 1990, by Dr. Mari J. Matsuda. I was not there to hear the speech. I read it one day online. I wish I had been there. This was a powerful speech, a call out to the pride and history of her people. The title was: “We Will Not Be Used: Are Asian-Americans the Racial Bourgeoisie?” I have cited excerpts from this speech.

“Living in 19th century Europe, Marx thought mostly in terms of class. Living in 20th century America, in the land where racism found a home, I am thinking about race. Is there a racial equivalent of the economic bourgeoisie? I fear there may be, and I fear it may be us.

If white, historically, is the top of the racial hierarchy in America, and black, historically, is the bottom, will yellow assume the place of the racial middle? The role of the racial middle is a critical one. It can reinforce white supremacy if the middle deludes itself into thinking it can be just like white if it tries hard enough. Conversely, the middle can dismantle white supremacy if it refuses to be the middle, if it refuses to buy into racial hierarchy, if it refuses to abandon communities of Black and Brown people, choosing instead to form alliances with them.”


She continues:

When Asian-Americans manage to do well, their success is used against others. Internally, it is used to erase the continuing poverty and social dislocation within Asian-American communities. The media is full of stories of Asian-American whiz kids. Their successes are used to erase our problems and to disavow any responsibility for them. The dominant culture doesn’t know about drug abuse in our communities, about our high school dropouts, our AIDS victims.

Suggestions that some segments of the Asian-American community need special help are greeted with suspicion and disbelief. External to our communities, our successes are used to deny racism and to put down other groups. African-Americans and Latinos and poor whites are told, “look at those Asians — anyone can make it in this country if they really try.” The cruelty of telling this to crack babies, to workers displaced by runaway shops, and to families waiting in line at homeless shelters, is not something I want associated with my genealogy.


There is more:

Yes, my ancestors made it in this country, but they made it against the odds. In my genealogy and probably in yours, are people who went to bed hungry, who lost land to the tax collector, who worked to exhaustion and ill-health, who faced pain and relocation with the bitter stoicism we call, in Japanese, “gaman.” Many who came the hard road of our ancestors didn’t make it. Their bones are still in the mountains by the tunnels they blasted for the railroad, still in the fields where they stooped over the short-handled hoe, still in the graveyards of Europe, where they fought for a democracy that didn’t include them. Asian success was success with a dark, painful price.

To use that success to discount the hardship facing poor and working people in this country today is a sacrilege to the memory of our ancestors. It is an insult to today’s Asian-American immigrants, who work the double-triple shift, who know no leisure, who crowd two and three families to a home, who put children and old-folks alike to work at struggling family businesses or at home doing piece-work until midnight. Yes, we take pride in our success, but we should also remember the cost. The success that is our pride is not to be given over as a weapon to use against other struggling communities. I hope we will not be used to blame the poor for their poverty.


Still, there is more:

Nor should we be used to deny employment or educational opportunities to others. A recent exchange of editorials and letters in the Asian-American press reveals confusion over affirmative action. Racist anti-Asian quotas at the universities can give quotas a bad name in our community. At the same time, quotas have been the only way we’ve been able to walk through the door of persistently discriminatory institutions like the San Francisco fire department.

We need affirmative action because there are still employers who see an Asian face and see a person unfit for a leadership position. In every field where we have attained a measure of success, we are underrepresented in the real power positions. And yet, we are in danger of being manipulated into opposing affirmative action by those who say affirmative action hurts Asian-Americans.


She goes on to say:

What’s really going on here? When university administrators have secret quotas to keep down Asian admissions, this is because Asians are seen as destroying the predominantly white character of the university. Under this mentality, we can’t let in all those Asian over-achievers and maintain affirmative action for other minority groups. We can’t do both because that will mean either that our universities lose their predominantly white character, or that we have to fund more and better universities. To either of those prospects, I say, “why not?” And I condemn the voices from our own community that are translating legitimate anger at ceilings on Asian admissions into unthinking opposition to affirmative action floors needed to fight racism.

In a period when rates of educational attainment for minorities and working class Americans are going down, in a period when America is lagging behind other developed nations in literacy and learning, I hope we will not be used to deny educational opportunities to the disadvantaged and to preserve success only for the privileged.


The crescendo:

I love my Asian brothers, but I’ve lost my patience with malingering homophobia and sexism, and especially with using white racism as an excuse to resist change. You know, the “I have to be Bruce Lee because the white man wants me to be Tonto” line. Yes, the J-town boys with their black leather jackets are adorable, but the pathetic need to put down straight women, gays, and lesbians is not. To anyone in our communities who wants to bring their anger home, let’s say, “cut it out.” We will not be used against each other.

If you know Hawaiian music, you know of the ha’ina line that tells of a song about to end. This speech is about to end. It will end by recalling echoes of Asian-American resistance.

In anti-eviction struggles in Chinatowns from coast to coast and in Hawaii we heard the song, “We Shall Not Be Moved.” For the 90’s, I want to sing, “We Shall Not Be Used.” I want to remember the times when Asian-Americans stood side-by-side with African-Americans, Latinos, and progressive whites to demand social justice. I want to remember the multi-racial ILWU (International Longshoremen and Warehousemen’s Workers’ Union) that ended the plantation system in Hawaii. I want to remember the multi-racial sugar beet strikes in California that brought together Japanese, Filipino and Chicano workers to fulfill their dreams of a better life. I want to remember the American Committee for the Protection of the Foreign Born that brought together progressive Okinawan, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, and European immigrants to fight McCarthyism and deportation of political activists. I want to remember the San Francisco State College strike, and the Asian-American students who stood their ground in a multi-racial coalition to bring about ethnic studies and lasting changes in American academic life, changes that make it possible for me, as a scholar, to tell the truth as I see it.


Who do these Asians speak for?

 

JoeB131

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I see you are one those dopes who downplay the evils of Communism.

Look at the facts:

You see, when you quote McCarthy/Bircher Propaganda like that, I just can't take you seriously.

The fact of human history is that people treat each other badly, and we are all one serious war or famine away from being vicious animals.

Oooh, let's whine about Mao and totally ignore the famine in India in the 1940's that killed 10 million people. Let's talk about Stalin's gulags and ignore Native American reservations.

Does the fact that black slaves were raped by white slave owners change the fact that their progeny carry slave owner DNA? Yes or no?

Uh, the point is THEY WERE RAPED. I mean, seriously, are you some kind of fucking retard?

You are talking nonsense as usual. Private schools already educate many poor inner city kids. Private schools, like all businesses, are happy to get more customers.

They are happy to get more customers who are willing to pay and are easy to deal with. The problem with School choice is that they'll take the easy kids, the kids who would have done just fine in a public school, and ignore the ones with disabilities or disciplinary problems.

You seem to hold racist views about black inner city parents. You feel they don’t care about their children.

Uh, again, are you retarded? Do you hate Public Schools because they made you wear the helmet and put you three grades behind?
 

JoeB131

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When I was a bit younger and Catholic School much more a presence in older cities, they kept grade schools open in many areas with donations from people.

Yes they did. It was their little way of avoiding taxes. Tuition could be taxed, donations to the Church couldn't. So parents with kids in the school were expected to make "donations". I remember well having to go to Church every Sunday to drop off "the envelop". Then the government said they couldn't pull that shit anymore.

Did I mention how much I fucking hate the Catholic Church? I don't think I mention that often enough.

Also many students from poorer areas were pout into Catholic High Schools with no costs or donations. The only rule is besides studying was do not cause any trouble.

IE, don't be too difficult for us to work with or have a learning disability or a disciplinary problem.

That's why we need Public education, so no one gets left behind.

What made Catholic schools popular in the day is that when the government desegregated schools, all these fucking white people didn't want little Timmy sitting next to little Jamal.

Education can be done. Discipline is needed and admitting that a percentage of kids to educate will not happen and that is reality would make for the greater good of others having a better life.

Actually, this was a bit more coherent than your usual brain drippings, so I'll play.

What do you do with the Autistic kids? Funny thing, 50 years ago when I went to school, nobody even heard of Autism.
 

Thunderbird

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I see you are one those dopes who downplay the evils of Communism.

Look at the facts:

You see, when you quote McCarthy/Bircher Propaganda like that, I just can't take you seriously.

The fact of human history is that people treat each other badly, and we are all one serious war or famine away from being vicious animals.

Oooh, let's whine about Mao and totally ignore the famine in India in the 1940's that killed 10 million people. Let's talk about Stalin's gulags and ignore Native American reservations.

Does the fact that black slaves were raped by white slave owners change the fact that their progeny carry slave owner DNA? Yes or no?

Uh, the point is THEY WERE RAPED. I mean, seriously, are you some kind of fucking retard?

You are talking nonsense as usual. Private schools already educate many poor inner city kids. Private schools, like all businesses, are happy to get more customers.

They are happy to get more customers who are willing to pay and are easy to deal with. The problem with School choice is that they'll take the easy kids, the kids who would have done just fine in a public school, and ignore the ones with disabilities or disciplinary problems.

You seem to hold racist views about black inner city parents. You feel they don’t care about their children.

Uh, again, are you retarded? Do you hate Public Schools because they made you wear the helmet and put you three grades behind?
Do you dispute the facts presented in the Black Book of Communism? Do you dispute the findings of historian Frank Dikotter I linked to earlier? I’m not surprised that an ignorant buffoon such as yourself would go in for genocide denial.

Yea fathead their ancestors were the ones doing the raping. Don’t you get it moron?

I already explained to you how a voucher system can help special needs kids.


Maybe if you weren’t a pinhead you could understand.

So you hate Asians and support anti-Asian discrimination because while Asian students were achieving all you could do was drool and play with yourself and fail all your tests. Is that about right?

You hate Asians and black people and Catholics and religious folk in general. Who don’t you hate?
 
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JoeB131

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Do you dispute the facts presented in the Black Book of Communism? Do you dispute the findings of historian Frank Dikotter I linked to earlier? I’m not surprised that an ignorant buffoon such as yourself would go in for genocide denial.

Yes, I actually do. It's a lot of Bircher crap that frankly, should have gone away with the Cold War.

Yea fathead their ancestors were the ones doing the raping. Don’t you get it moron?

I do. They were raped. They were whipped. They were tortured. They were forced to work for no money. That's why they deserve reparations.

Or here's an idea. Let's make White People slaves for a couple hundred years, just to even things out. But that would be harsh. Reparations would be better.

I already explained to you how a voucher system can help special needs kids.

Voucher let people like Betsy Devos rip off education like her brother Eric Prince ripped off the military. Hard Pass.

So you hate Asians and support anti-Asian discrimination because while Asian students were achieving all you could do was drool and play with yourself and fail all your tests. Is that about right?

Nope. I just don't believe we can fix the racial problems unless we actually fix them, and we only do that by giving blacks the same opporutnities whites have.

Asians weren't whipped, they weren't raped, they weren't enslaved and they came here voluntarily.
 

Thunderbird

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Do you dispute the facts presented in the Black Book of Communism? Do you dispute the findings of historian Frank Dikotter I linked to earlier? I’m not surprised that an ignorant buffoon such as yourself would go in for genocide denial.

Yes, I actually do. It's a lot of Bircher crap that frankly, should have gone away with the Cold War.

Yea fathead their ancestors were the ones doing the raping. Don’t you get it moron?

I do. They were raped. They were whipped. They were tortured. They were forced to work for no money. That's why they deserve reparations.

Or here's an idea. Let's make White People slaves for a couple hundred years, just to even things out. But that would be harsh. Reparations would be better.

I already explained to you how a voucher system can help special needs kids.

Voucher let people like Betsy Devos rip off education like her brother Eric Prince ripped off the military. Hard Pass.

So you hate Asians and support anti-Asian discrimination because while Asian students were achieving all you could do was drool and play with yourself and fail all your tests. Is that about right?

Nope. I just don't believe we can fix the racial problems unless we actually fix them, and we only do that by giving blacks the same opporutnities whites have.

Asians weren't whipped, they weren't raped, they weren't enslaved and they came here voluntarily.
Do have any evidence for your Communist genocide denial or should we just write you off as an ignorant fraud?

As you acknowledged the ancestors of black Americans were the ones doing the raping. Also these ancestors were the ones doing the whipping and torturing.

Should we punish the descendants of these awful people?

Since you think white people should be slaves you ought to immediately report to the nearest black person and start serving. Bring a whip so they can give you a thorough punishment, I’m sure you’ll deserve it. Practice your cotton-picking skills, you’ll need them.

Remember in recent decades many black people have eagerly immigrated to the US.
 
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JoeB131

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Do have any evidence for your Communist genocide denial or should we just write you off as an ignorant fraud?

Yes, which I've posted on many threads. Here's a simple one. If Stalin really killed 20 or 50 million people when he was in charge of the USSR, then how was it possible that the population of the USSR actually INCREASED under his regime. The population went from 137MM in 1920 to 182MM in 1951. That was DESPITE the horrific losses Russia took in WWII.

Of course, the only way you get into the "millions" killed is if you count every civil war and famine as something he could really control.

As you acknowledged the ancestors of black Americans were the ones doing the raping. Also these ancestors were the ones doing the whipping and torturing.

NO, there's a little problem with CONSENT, that you don't seem to get.

Since you think white people should be slaves you ought to immediately report to the nearest black person and start serving. Bring a whip so they can give you a thorough punishment, I’m sure you’ll deserve it. Practice your cotton-picking skills, you’ll need them.

Wow, that point went right over your head, didn't it? Did you eat paint chips as a child?

Remember in recent decades many black people have eagerly immigrated to the US.

Which means that we are slightly better than an impoverished third world country that was looted by assholes from Europe.

Seriously, guy, every time you open your mouth, you make white people look bad.
 

yidnar

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This is for you too.

One of the great speeches of all time was delivered at the Asian Law Caucus Banquet in April of 1990, by Dr. Mari J. Matsuda. I was not there to hear the speech. I read it one day online. I wish I had been there. This was a powerful speech, a call out to the pride and history of her people. The title was: “We Will Not Be Used: Are Asian-Americans the Racial Bourgeoisie?” I have cited excerpts from this speech.

“Living in 19th century Europe, Marx thought mostly in terms of class. Living in 20th century America, in the land where racism found a home, I am thinking about race. Is there a racial equivalent of the economic bourgeoisie? I fear there may be, and I fear it may be us.

If white, historically, is the top of the racial hierarchy in America, and black, historically, is the bottom, will yellow assume the place of the racial middle? The role of the racial middle is a critical one. It can reinforce white supremacy if the middle deludes itself into thinking it can be just like white if it tries hard enough. Conversely, the middle can dismantle white supremacy if it refuses to be the middle, if it refuses to buy into racial hierarchy, if it refuses to abandon communities of Black and Brown people, choosing instead to form alliances with them.”


She continues:

When Asian-Americans manage to do well, their success is used against others. Internally, it is used to erase the continuing poverty and social dislocation within Asian-American communities. The media is full of stories of Asian-American whiz kids. Their successes are used to erase our problems and to disavow any responsibility for them. The dominant culture doesn’t know about drug abuse in our communities, about our high school dropouts, our AIDS victims.

Suggestions that some segments of the Asian-American community need special help are greeted with suspicion and disbelief. External to our communities, our successes are used to deny racism and to put down other groups. African-Americans and Latinos and poor whites are told, “look at those Asians — anyone can make it in this country if they really try.” The cruelty of telling this to crack babies, to workers displaced by runaway shops, and to families waiting in line at homeless shelters, is not something I want associated with my genealogy.


There is more:

Yes, my ancestors made it in this country, but they made it against the odds. In my genealogy and probably in yours, are people who went to bed hungry, who lost land to the tax collector, who worked to exhaustion and ill-health, who faced pain and relocation with the bitter stoicism we call, in Japanese, “gaman.” Many who came the hard road of our ancestors didn’t make it. Their bones are still in the mountains by the tunnels they blasted for the railroad, still in the fields where they stooped over the short-handled hoe, still in the graveyards of Europe, where they fought for a democracy that didn’t include them. Asian success was success with a dark, painful price.

To use that success to discount the hardship facing poor and working people in this country today is a sacrilege to the memory of our ancestors. It is an insult to today’s Asian-American immigrants, who work the double-triple shift, who know no leisure, who crowd two and three families to a home, who put children and old-folks alike to work at struggling family businesses or at home doing piece-work until midnight. Yes, we take pride in our success, but we should also remember the cost. The success that is our pride is not to be given over as a weapon to use against other struggling communities. I hope we will not be used to blame the poor for their poverty.


Still, there is more:

Nor should we be used to deny employment or educational opportunities to others. A recent exchange of editorials and letters in the Asian-American press reveals confusion over affirmative action. Racist anti-Asian quotas at the universities can give quotas a bad name in our community. At the same time, quotas have been the only way we’ve been able to walk through the door of persistently discriminatory institutions like the San Francisco fire department.

We need affirmative action because there are still employers who see an Asian face and see a person unfit for a leadership position. In every field where we have attained a measure of success, we are underrepresented in the real power positions. And yet, we are in danger of being manipulated into opposing affirmative action by those who say affirmative action hurts Asian-Americans.


She goes on to say:

What’s really going on here? When university administrators have secret quotas to keep down Asian admissions, this is because Asians are seen as destroying the predominantly white character of the university. Under this mentality, we can’t let in all those Asian over-achievers and maintain affirmative action for other minority groups. We can’t do both because that will mean either that our universities lose their predominantly white character, or that we have to fund more and better universities. To either of those prospects, I say, “why not?” And I condemn the voices from our own community that are translating legitimate anger at ceilings on Asian admissions into unthinking opposition to affirmative action floors needed to fight racism.

In a period when rates of educational attainment for minorities and working class Americans are going down, in a period when America is lagging behind other developed nations in literacy and learning, I hope we will not be used to deny educational opportunities to the disadvantaged and to preserve success only for the privileged.


The crescendo:

I love my Asian brothers, but I’ve lost my patience with malingering homophobia and sexism, and especially with using white racism as an excuse to resist change. You know, the “I have to be Bruce Lee because the white man wants me to be Tonto” line. Yes, the J-town boys with their black leather jackets are adorable, but the pathetic need to put down straight women, gays, and lesbians is not. To anyone in our communities who wants to bring their anger home, let’s say, “cut it out.” We will not be used against each other.

If you know Hawaiian music, you know of the ha’ina line that tells of a song about to end. This speech is about to end. It will end by recalling echoes of Asian-American resistance.

In anti-eviction struggles in Chinatowns from coast to coast and in Hawaii we heard the song, “We Shall Not Be Moved.” For the 90’s, I want to sing, “We Shall Not Be Used.” I want to remember the times when Asian-Americans stood side-by-side with African-Americans, Latinos, and progressive whites to demand social justice. I want to remember the multi-racial ILWU (International Longshoremen and Warehousemen’s Workers’ Union) that ended the plantation system in Hawaii. I want to remember the multi-racial sugar beet strikes in California that brought together Japanese, Filipino and Chicano workers to fulfill their dreams of a better life. I want to remember the American Committee for the Protection of the Foreign Born that brought together progressive Okinawan, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, and European immigrants to fight McCarthyism and deportation of political activists. I want to remember the San Francisco State College strike, and the Asian-American students who stood their ground in a multi-racial coalition to bring about ethnic studies and lasting changes in American academic life, changes that make it possible for me, as a scholar, to tell the truth as I see it.


Whitey Whitey Whitey ! Whitey is on television ! Whitey is on the radio ! Whitey is in the government ! Whitey is in your city ! Whitey is in the stores and on the Hwy! Whitey is under your bed and even in your family tree ! there is no escape from evil Whitey ! heck you cant even get away from Whitey on the bottom of the ocean or the surface of the moon because Whitey has been their too ! Whitey is everywhere ! aaaarrrrrrggggg ! :102::102:
 

Thunderbird

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Do have any evidence for your Communist genocide denial or should we just write you off as an ignorant fraud?

Yes, which I've posted on many threads. Here's a simple one. If Stalin really killed 20 or 50 million people when he was in charge of the USSR, then how was it possible that the population of the USSR actually INCREASED under his regime. The population went from 137MM in 1920 to 182MM in 1951. That was DESPITE the horrific losses Russia took in WWII.

Of course, the only way you get into the "millions" killed is if you count every civil war and famine as something he could really control.

As you acknowledged the ancestors of black Americans were the ones doing the raping. Also these ancestors were the ones doing the whipping and torturing.

NO, there's a little problem with CONSENT, that you don't seem to get.

Since you think white people should be slaves you ought to immediately report to the nearest black person and start serving. Bring a whip so they can give you a thorough punishment, I’m sure you’ll deserve it. Practice your cotton-picking skills, you’ll need them.

Wow, that point went right over your head, didn't it? Did you eat paint chips as a child?

Remember in recent decades many black people have eagerly immigrated to the US.

Which means that we are slightly better than an impoverished third world country that was looted by assholes from Europe.

Seriously, guy, every time you open your mouth, you make white people look bad.
Wow if you had any sense you’d be embarrassed by your stupidity.

Regarding the Soviet population: Soviet Census (1937) - Infogalactic: the planetary knowledge core

The slave-holding ancestors of black people didn’t care about consent, did they? Maybe we should punish their descendants?

Have you reported to the nearest black person? Maybe they didn’t want you as a slave because you are so dumb? Try again anyway! On your knees you racist cracker! Apologize for your whiteness!

Colonization ended decades ago yet black people are desperate to get into the U.S. How can this be? I’m sure independent African nations must have created vibrant economies by now. Hard to understand...

 
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JoeB131

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Wow if you had any sense you’d be embarrassed by your stupidity.

Regarding the Soviet population: Soviet Census (1937) - Infogalactic: the planetary knowledge core

Um yeah, okay. The 1937 census was kind of a clusterfuck, which is why they ordered a new one...

But it STILL reported an increase of population from the 1926 Census of 148 million compared to 162 million in the 1937 census. The 1939 census, where they got it right, came up with 168 million.

So my point stands. If Stalin killed 20 or 40 million people, how could the population increase by 14-20 million in that period?

Now, the Stalin Purges were bad... They killed probably a million people. Stalin was a bastard. No doubt, no argument.

He also turned an impoverished backwards country into a powerhouse that defeated fascism.


The slave-holding ancestors of black people didn’t care about consent, did they? Maybe we should punish their descendants?

Again, my days of thinking of you as a retard are coming to a middle. Their descendents were the victims of the rape, not the perpetrators. When a baby was born of a slave because her owner (or for that matter any other white man who happened to stop by) raped her, the baby still ended up as a slave, was still subject to all the racist laws of our society. That baby did not benefit from having a rapist slave owner father.

Colonization ended decades ago yet black people are desperate to get into the U.S. How can this be? I’m sure independent African nations must have created vibrant economies by now. Hard to understand...

Wow, you really want to compare the Congo to South Korea. Awesome, let's compare.

The Congo was a case where the King of Belgium treated it as his own personal domain, and allowed the wholesale slaughter of people to extract natural resources such as Rubber and Ivory. The explotation got so bad the other countries of Europe felt the need to intervene.

MEANWHILE- South Korea, has enjoyed the United States pumping billions of dollars into their economy for decades after the Korea War to show that "Capitalism Works". Except most of that period, South Korea was a military dictatorship and not a nice place to live.

There are a lot more Koreans in the US than Congolese. Ever wonder why that is?
 

Thunderbird

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Wow if you had any sense you’d be embarrassed by your stupidity.

Regarding the Soviet population: Soviet Census (1937) - Infogalactic: the planetary knowledge core

Um yeah, okay. The 1937 census was kind of a clusterfuck, which is why they ordered a new one...

But it STILL reported an increase of population from the 1926 Census of 148 million compared to 162 million in the 1937 census. The 1939 census, where they got it right, came up with 168 million.

So my point stands. If Stalin killed 20 or 40 million people, how could the population increase by 14-20 million in that period?

Now, the Stalin Purges were bad... They killed probably a million people. Stalin was a bastard. No doubt, no argument.

He also turned an impoverished backwards country into a powerhouse that defeated fascism.


The slave-holding ancestors of black people didn’t care about consent, did they? Maybe we should punish their descendants?

Again, my days of thinking of you as a retard are coming to a middle. Their descendents were the victims of the rape, not the perpetrators. When a baby was born of a slave because her owner (or for that matter any other white man who happened to stop by) raped her, the baby still ended up as a slave, was still subject to all the racist laws of our society. That baby did not benefit from having a rapist slave owner father.

Colonization ended decades ago yet black people are desperate to get into the U.S. How can this be? I’m sure independent African nations must have created vibrant economies by now. Hard to understand...

Wow, you really want to compare the Congo to South Korea. Awesome, let's compare.

The Congo was a case where the King of Belgium treated it as his own personal domain, and allowed the wholesale slaughter of people to extract natural resources such as Rubber and Ivory. The explotation got so bad the other countries of Europe felt the need to intervene.

MEANWHILE- South Korea, has enjoyed the United States pumping billions of dollars into their economy for decades after the Korea War to show that "Capitalism Works". Except most of that period, South Korea was a military dictatorship and not a nice place to live.

There are a lot more Koreans in the US than Congolese. Ever wonder why that is?
I don’t know why I bother debating with you. You seem to have some kind of brain damage. You acknowledge the inadequacies of the 1937 census, but then you try to use it to bolster your argument. Why do you think the 1939 census was so accurate? Is this another one of those facts you pull out of your ass?

Because of Stalin’s incompetence the Nazis were able to slaughter tens of millions Russians, Ukrainians, etc.

Current calls for reparations are based on DNA. If your black ancestors sold slaves in Africa, if your black ancestors owned slaves in the U.S. and you are black you still get $. If your ancestors were peasants in Europe, if your white ancestor lost an arm fighting for Lincoln and you are white you still must give $. I’m pointing out American blacks carry slaveholder DNA and therefore their claims for reparations are dubious.

You got the wrong Congo. Given your ignorance, maybe you shouldn’t be posting on a public forum. What do you think?

South Korea suffered tremendously from the brutal Communist invasion. You don’t give Koreans any credit for their success? How racist of you.

Maybe Communists should pay reparations to their many victims? JoeB131 is sort of a Communist. He could send money to Ukrainians, South Koreans, Ethiopians, Cambodians, etc.
 
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JoeB131

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I don’t know why I bother debating with you. You seem to have some kind of brain damage. You acknowledge the inadequacies of the 1937 census, but then you try to use it to bolster your argument. Why do you think the 1939 census was so accurate? Is this another one of those facts you pull out of your ass?

Well, to start with, the guys who fucked up the 37 census all got sent to Siberia. That's probably a good reason to not fuck it up this time.

No matter which census you want to count as accurate, let's average them and say that the population of the USSR grew to 165. THAT'S STILL 17 million more than they had in 1926, which wouldn't be possible if Stalin had killed 30 million people like you idiots claim.

Because of Stalin’s incompetence the Nazis were able to slaughter tens of millions Russians, Ukrainians, etc.

Really? Um. Okay, how many people died because of Churchill and Petain's incompetence? How many Chinese people died because of Chiang Kai-sheks' incompetence? Seems to me that there was a lot of incompetence going around on all sides in WWII. Everyone did really stupid things. Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini did really stupid thing, too.

Current calls for reparations are based on DNA. If your black ancestors sold slaves in Africa, if your black ancestors owned slaves in the U.S. and you are black you still get $. If your ancestors were peasants in Europe, if your white ancestor lost an arm fighting for Lincoln and you are white you still must give $. I’m pointing out American blacks carry slaveholder DNA and therefore their claims for reparations are dubious.

No, they aren't based on DNA, they are based on family history and racist culture. The problem is, you guys like to pretend all our problems ended in 1865, when in fact, they continued with Jim Crow.

Reparations wouldn't cost us that much compared to Corporate Welfare. What rankles you and other stupid white people is the notion that we actually SHOULD say we are sorry.

You got the wrong Congo. Given your ignorance, maybe you shouldn’t be posting on a public forum. What do you think?

Um, no, buddy. There are two Congos. The one that used to owned by the French, and the one that used to owned by Belgium that was known as Zaire for a while. I thought you'd have the intellectual integrity to make an apple to apples comparison, but I guess I was expecting too much from you.

They were both really exploited by teh Europeans... but Belgian Congo was pretty bad.

The Republic of the Congo has a whopping 5 million people compared to South Korea which has 51 million.


South Korea suffered tremendously from the brutal Communist invasion. You don’t give Koreans any credit for their success? How racist of you.

They suffered a lot more because of the brutal dictatorships we propped up. Korea is still relatively poor compared to Japan or the United States, which is why you have so many Korean babes who want to marry Americans and get the eff out.

Maybe Communists should pay reparations to their many victims? JoeB131 is sort of a Communist. He could send money to Ukrainians, South Koreans, Ethiopians, Cambodians, etc.

Yes, anyone who doesn't buy into Bircher Propaganda and Lies is a "communist".

Wonderful logic you have.
 

22lcidw

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I see you are one those dopes who downplay the evils of Communism.

Look at the facts:

You see, when you quote McCarthy/Bircher Propaganda like that, I just can't take you seriously.

The fact of human history is that people treat each other badly, and we are all one serious war or famine away from being vicious animals.

Oooh, let's whine about Mao and totally ignore the famine in India in the 1940's that killed 10 million people. Let's talk about Stalin's gulags and ignore Native American reservations.

Does the fact that black slaves were raped by white slave owners change the fact that their progeny carry slave owner DNA? Yes or no?

Uh, the point is THEY WERE RAPED. I mean, seriously, are you some kind of fucking retard?

You are talking nonsense as usual. Private schools already educate many poor inner city kids. Private schools, like all businesses, are happy to get more customers.

They are happy to get more customers who are willing to pay and are easy to deal with. The problem with School choice is that they'll take the easy kids, the kids who would have done just fine in a public school, and ignore the ones with disabilities or disciplinary problems.

You seem to hold racist views about black inner city parents. You feel they don’t care about their children.

Uh, again, are you retarded? Do you hate Public Schools because they made you wear the helmet and put you three grades behind?
All that crap you typed has one thing missing........survival! Gangs proliferated all over the city. Turf wars were the norm. Half the students in the city went to Catholic Schools. You may say avoiding taxes, but then again the city, state and fed governments was not on the hook for half the students. The lay teacher made less then public school teachers, the priests and brothers made much less then the lay teachers and the nuns would make welfare look like an upgrade. The local schools and church kept people together and the neighborhood more unified as they looked out for each other.
 

Thunderbird

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I don’t know why I bother debating with you. You seem to have some kind of brain damage. You acknowledge the inadequacies of the 1937 census, but then you try to use it to bolster your argument. Why do you think the 1939 census was so accurate? Is this another one of those facts you pull out of your ass?

Well, to start with, the guys who fucked up the 37 census all got sent to Siberia. That's probably a good reason to not fuck it up this time.

No matter which census you want to count as accurate, let's average them and say that the population of the USSR grew to 165. THAT'S STILL 17 million more than they had in 1926, which wouldn't be possible if Stalin had killed 30 million people like you idiots claim.

Because of Stalin’s incompetence the Nazis were able to slaughter tens of millions Russians, Ukrainians, etc.

Really? Um. Okay, how many people died because of Churchill and Petain's incompetence? How many Chinese people died because of Chiang Kai-sheks' incompetence? Seems to me that there was a lot of incompetence going around on all sides in WWII. Everyone did really stupid things. Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini did really stupid thing, too.

Current calls for reparations are based on DNA. If your black ancestors sold slaves in Africa, if your black ancestors owned slaves in the U.S. and you are black you still get $. If your ancestors were peasants in Europe, if your white ancestor lost an arm fighting for Lincoln and you are white you still must give $. I’m pointing out American blacks carry slaveholder DNA and therefore their claims for reparations are dubious.

No, they aren't based on DNA, they are based on family history and racist culture. The problem is, you guys like to pretend all our problems ended in 1865, when in fact, they continued with Jim Crow.

Reparations wouldn't cost us that much compared to Corporate Welfare. What rankles you and other stupid white people is the notion that we actually SHOULD say we are sorry.

You got the wrong Congo. Given your ignorance, maybe you shouldn’t be posting on a public forum. What do you think?

Um, no, buddy. There are two Congos. The one that used to owned by the French, and the one that used to owned by Belgium that was known as Zaire for a while. I thought you'd have the intellectual integrity to make an apple to apples comparison, but I guess I was expecting too much from you.

They were both really exploited by teh Europeans... but Belgian Congo was pretty bad.

The Republic of the Congo has a whopping 5 million people compared to South Korea which has 51 million.


South Korea suffered tremendously from the brutal Communist invasion. You don’t give Koreans any credit for their success? How racist of you.

They suffered a lot more because of the brutal dictatorships we propped up. Korea is still relatively poor compared to Japan or the United States, which is why you have so many Korean babes who want to marry Americans and get the eff out.

Maybe Communists should pay reparations to their many victims? JoeB131 is sort of a Communist. He could send money to Ukrainians, South Koreans, Ethiopians, Cambodians, etc.

Yes, anyone who doesn't buy into Bircher Propaganda and Lies is a "communist".

Wonderful logic you have.
Your postings have reached the Complete Moron level and I don’t see much need to respond.

I suggest you do some reading. Here’s a start:



If you believe in reparations you should give away your car and your cash to the nearest available black person. Unless you are a phony.

If you are angry about historic injustice you should insist on reparations from Communists and all slave-holding and slave-trading societies.
 

JoeB131

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Your postings have reached the Complete Moron level and I don’t see much need to respond.

I suggest you do some reading. Here’s a start:

Yawn, ho-hum. Famines aren't mass murder, they are famines.

Again, if you are going to blame Stalin for the Famine in the Ukraine, why not blame Churchill for the Famine in the Bengal in 1943-44 that killed millions of Indians. (Churchill joked, 'Has Gandhi starved yet?") Or how the US government made it a policy to hunt the Bison into near extinction with the intent of starving out the Plains Indians. "The only good Indian is a dead Indian", said General Sheridan.

Your outrage seems a bit selective.

If you believe in reparations you should give away your car and your cash to the nearest available black person. Unless you are a phony.

Actually, reparations should be paid by the people who largely benefit from racism, and that would be the wealthy. I know you live in mortal terror a rich person won't be able to afford a new Dressage Horse.

If you are angry about historic injustice you should insist on reparations from Communists and all slave-holding and slave-trading societies.

Communism happened because of historic injustice. You take a look at any country where the Communists took over, and it is invariably because the plutocratic class abused the working class until they couldn't take it anymore.

You complain about the brutality of Stalin (which was bad, but just not nearly as bad as you say) but ignore the fact that for centuries, the Tsarist regime really abused the peasants of Russia. You make a big deal about the Ukraine Famine, but ignore the famine of 1891 that largely caused a rise in Marxism.

The biggest problem with Stalin wasn't that he was a "communist", it was that he moved into the Tsar's palace and started acting like a Tsar.
 

Turtlesoup

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Public schools are a failure and getting worse---they need to be taken out and replaced.
 

JoeB131

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Public schools are a failure and getting worse---they need to be taken out and replaced.

Why, because you don't like them?

Chicago Public schools have increased dramatically in recent decades.


So much so that Catholic Parochial Schools have been shut down because of a lack of students. Why pay for religious nutbaggery when you can get just as good an education for free.

 

Turtlesoup

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You have back wards.....When school is seen as a privilege not a right, the students and parents both apply themselves harder. Keeping the learning problems and the disruptive problems only drags everyone else down and waste resources and time. Make parents teach their own problem children---it will free time for other kids who want to and can learn and it will discourage bad parents from having so many kids.
 

JoeB131

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You have back wards.....When school is seen as a privilege not a right, the students and parents both apply themselves harder. Keeping the learning problems and the disruptive problems only drags everyone else down and waste resources and time. Make parents teach their own problem children---it will free time for other kids who want to and can learn and it will discourage bad parents from having so many kids.

Really? You think people are going to stop fucking because they have really thought out the whole parenting thing?
 

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