Where is palestine

[turzovka]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

They were Jews. And their enemies quickly learned not to fuck with them unless they wanted a can of whoop ass opened up

It is one subject that sickens me. That is, how the govt, people and media in Europe and the USA treat Israel. They are devils, but more likely just plain stupid and could not care less about the truth.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

They were Jews. And their enemies quickly learned not to fuck with them unless they wanted a can of whoop ass opened up

It is one subject that sickens me. That is, how the govt, people and media in Europe and the USA treat Israel. They are devils, but more likely just plain stupid and could not care less about the truth.

I'm a staunch supporter of Israel.

 

[Boston1]

I'm the first to admit I find the whole situation confusing and I haven't studied it as well as I should have. Boston. I appreciate your input.

And yours as well. I do hope we can have a peaceful and productive conversation as I find the subject very interesting.

in the end my take is we should all sit down, relax and not worry about it. Because we all deserve to live in peace

 

[P F Tinmore]

According to the OETA map of 1918 - 1920 palestine didn't exist

While I can point to Israel, called the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem in this map I can't seem to find anything that could even remotely be considered palestine.

 

[Indeependent]

According to the OETA map of 1918 - 1920 palestine didn't exist

While I can point to Israel, called the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem in this map I can't seem to find anything that could even remotely be considered palestine.

Please provide a Link to the map.

 

[Boston1]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

Actually the UN had a very hard time with just what to consider on this one, in the end they worded things very carefully, eventually placing a definition of palestinian refugees such that they could identify them and administer aid.

It reads as follows
Quote
WHO ARE PALESTINE REFUGEES?
Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”
UNRWA services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of Palestine refugee males, including adopted children, are also eligible for registration. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.
End Quote

This definition delt with the nationality end of the issue as well as the heritage and religious issue. By omitting any reference to either and making the definition pertain to place of residence only and only within a 2 year period of time.

Where it gets sticky is when under its own charter rules it failed to segregate legitimate refugees from combatants. And since combatants or descendants of combatants are not eligible for refugee status. we have a huge mess today with not only illegal combatants but the UN lending aid to one of the waring parties, which is wildly illegal under the UNs own charter as well as a few other elements of law.

 

[Boston1]

According to the OETA map of 1918 - 1920 palestine didn't exist

While I can point to Israel, called the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem in this map I can't seem to find anything that could even remotely be considered palestine.

The maps I've used are historical in nature, something tells me this one you present isn't historical in nature. Could you tell us when it was produced ?

for instance this Ottoman map of about 1855 clearly showing the area of the mandate to be a province of Syria

Quote

Ottoman Syria became organized by the Ottomans upon conquest from the Mamluks in the early 16th century into eyalets (provinces) of Damascus and Aleppo. Eyalet of Tripoli was formed in 1579 and later Eyalet of Adana was split from Aleppo. In 1660, Eyalet of Safed was established and shortly renamed into Eyalet of Sidon. The eyalets were later transformed into the Vilayet of Syria, the Vilayet of Aleppo and the Vilayet of Beirut, following the 1864 Tanzimat reforms.

End Quote

 

[aris2chat]

According to the OETA map of 1918 - 1920 palestine didn't exist

While I can point to Israel, called the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem in this map I can't seem to find anything that could even remotely be considered palestine.

It was ottoman, then mandate, but never a state of palestine. Arabs did not want a state and through Israel has tried, talks end up being rejected.

 

[P F Tinmore]

According to the OETA map of 1918 - 1920 palestine didn't exist

While I can point to Israel, called the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem in this map I can't seem to find anything that could even remotely be considered palestine.

Please provide a Link to the map.

The Global Education Project

 

[turzovka]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

Actually the UN had a very hard time with just what to consider on this one, in the end they worded things very carefully, eventually placing a definition of palestinian refugees such that they could identify them and administer aid.

It reads as follows
Quote
WHO ARE PALESTINE REFUGEES?
Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”
UNRWA services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of Palestine refugee males, including adopted children, are also eligible for registration. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.
End Quote

This definition delt with the nationality end of the issue as well as the heritage and religious issue. By omitting any reference to either and making the definition pertain to place of residence only and only within a 2 year period of time.

Where it gets sticky is when under its own charter rules it failed to segregate legitimate refugees from combatants. And since combatants or descendants of combatants are not eligible for refugee status. we have a huge mess today with not only illegal combatants but the UN lending aid to one of the waring parties, which is wildly illegal under the UNs own charter as well as a few other elements of law.

Fine. The U.N. essentially gave refugee status to any Arab in the region at the time. That hardly surprises me. I was only making the point that more than half of those Arabs would not even have been living there if it were not for the efforts of the Jewish people to turn it into arable land and thriving economy for which these Arabs or palestinians all benefited.

There are far large points of contention than who is a palestinian, such as, what right do any of those Arabs who moved into the land or even those generations who have lived there --- what right do they have to say that Jews could not live there? It was Ottoman territory and the Jews purchased wasteland from the Ottoman Turks or more often from absentee wealthy Arab landlords living in Egypt and elsewhere. None of this adds up to any right for neighboring ARab armies to attack them and try to destroy them.

 

[Indeependent]

According to the OETA map of 1918 - 1920 palestine didn't exist

While I can point to Israel, called the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem in this map I can't seem to find anything that could even remotely be considered palestine.

Please provide a Link to the map.

The Global Education Project

That map looks incredibly...amateurish?
When was this map designed and which international entity recognizes it's legitimacy?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

Actually the UN had a very hard time with just what to consider on this one, in the end they worded things very carefully, eventually placing a definition of palestinian refugees such that they could identify them and administer aid.

It reads as follows
Quote
WHO ARE PALESTINE REFUGEES?
Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”
UNRWA services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of Palestine refugee males, including adopted children, are also eligible for registration. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.
End Quote

This definition delt with the nationality end of the issue as well as the heritage and religious issue. By omitting any reference to either and making the definition pertain to place of residence only and only within a 2 year period of time.

Where it gets sticky is when under its own charter rules it failed to segregate legitimate refugees from combatants. And since combatants or descendants of combatants are not eligible for refugee status. we have a huge mess today with not only illegal combatants but the UN lending aid to one of the waring parties, which is wildly illegal under the UNs own charter as well as a few other elements of law.

The UNRWA definition was only to define who qualified for aid. It is not a comprehensive list.

 

[P F Tinmore]

According to the OETA map of 1918 - 1920 palestine didn't exist

While I can point to Israel, called the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem in this map I can't seem to find anything that could even remotely be considered palestine.

Please provide a Link to the map.

The Global Education Project

That map looks incredibly...amateurish?
When was this map designed and which international entity recognizes it's legitimacy?

Those are the same borders that were referenced as Palestine's international borders in the 1949 UN armistice agreements. Of course that was after the Mandate left Palestine.

 

[Indeependent]

According to the OETA map of 1918 - 1920 palestine didn't exist

While I can point to Israel, called the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem in this map I can't seem to find anything that could even remotely be considered palestine.

Please provide a Link to the map.

The Global Education Project

That map looks incredibly...amateurish?
When was this map designed and which international entity recognizes it's legitimacy?

Those are the same borders that were referenced as Palestine's international borders in the 1949 UN armistice agreements. Of course that was after the Mandate left Palestine.

I asked you a pointed question concerning the map you posted as your proof.
Please focus.

 

[aris2chat]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

Actually the UN had a very hard time with just what to consider on this one, in the end they worded things very carefully, eventually placing a definition of palestinian refugees such that they could identify them and administer aid.

It reads as follows
Quote
WHO ARE PALESTINE REFUGEES?
Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”
UNRWA services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of Palestine refugee males, including adopted children, are also eligible for registration. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.
End Quote

This definition delt with the nationality end of the issue as well as the heritage and religious issue. By omitting any reference to either and making the definition pertain to place of residence only and only within a 2 year period of time.

Where it gets sticky is when under its own charter rules it failed to segregate legitimate refugees from combatants. And since combatants or descendants of combatants are not eligible for refugee status. we have a huge mess today with not only illegal combatants but the UN lending aid to one of the waring parties, which is wildly illegal under the UNs own charter as well as a few other elements of law.

Fine. The U.N. essentially gave refugee status to any Arab in the region at the time. That hardly surprises me. I was only making the point that more than half of those Arabs would not even have been living there if it were not for the efforts of the Jewish people to turn it into arable land and thriving economy for which these Arabs or palestinians all benefited.

There are far large points of contention than who is a palestinian, such as, what right do any of those Arabs who moved into the land or even those generations who have lived there --- what right do they have to say that Jews could not live there? It was Ottoman territory and the Jews purchased wasteland from the Ottoman Turks or more often from absentee wealthy Arab landlords living in Egypt and elsewhere. None of this adds up to any right for neighboring ARab armies to attack them and try to destroy them.

When the mandated ended there was only a requirement to have lived in the mandate for two years to be considered "palestinian" when applying for refugee status.

 

[turzovka]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

Actually the UN had a very hard time with just what to consider on this one, in the end they worded things very carefully, eventually placing a definition of palestinian refugees such that they could identify them and administer aid.

It reads as follows
Quote
WHO ARE PALESTINE REFUGEES?
Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”
UNRWA services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of Palestine refugee males, including adopted children, are also eligible for registration. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.
End Quote

This definition delt with the nationality end of the issue as well as the heritage and religious issue. By omitting any reference to either and making the definition pertain to place of residence only and only within a 2 year period of time.

Where it gets sticky is when under its own charter rules it failed to segregate legitimate refugees from combatants. And since combatants or descendants of combatants are not eligible for refugee status. we have a huge mess today with not only illegal combatants but the UN lending aid to one of the waring parties, which is wildly illegal under the UNs own charter as well as a few other elements of law.

Fine. The U.N. essentially gave refugee status to any Arab in the region at the time. That hardly surprises me. I was only making the point that more than half of those Arabs would not even have been living there if it were not for the efforts of the Jewish people to turn it into arable land and thriving economy for which these Arabs or palestinians all benefited.

There are far large points of contention than who is a palestinian, such as, what right do any of those Arabs who moved into the land or even those generations who have lived there --- what right do they have to say that Jews could not live there? It was Ottoman territory and the Jews purchased wasteland from the Ottoman Turks or more often from absentee wealthy Arab landlords living in Egypt and elsewhere. None of this adds up to any right for neighboring ARab armies to attack them and try to destroy them.

When the mandated ended there was only a requirement to have lived in the mandate for two years to be considered "palestinian" when applying for refugee status.

Yes, and by then the U.N. was no pal of the Jews. And has never been since. But it does translate the word "palestinian" rather loosely in many ways.

Anyway, I have no problem with who they decided was to receive refugee status, the problems are with how the world treated Israel then and now. It is a total crime. Every one of those "refugees" could have gone back to their homes and the land of Israel if any of those dastardly Arab nations would have signed some kind of peace treaty with Israel. Of course they would not.

So what's a fledgling nation surrounded by enemies to do? Let them all in so they can be destroyed all the easier?
Which also raises the question why are 2 1/2 million Arabs living peacefully in Israel today? Those who never left back then never considered leaving since.

 

[Penelope]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

They were Jews. And their enemies quickly learned not to fuck with them unless they wanted a can of whoop ass opened up

It is one subject that sickens me. That is, how the govt, people and media in Europe and the USA treat Israel. They are devils, but more likely just plain stupid and could not care less about the truth.

Maybe if Israel treated the Palestinians like humans, but until then, Israel sucks. After all the Palestinians are the Hebrew kin, Semites.

 

[Indeependent]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

They were Jews. And their enemies quickly learned not to fuck with them unless they wanted a can of whoop ass opened up

It is one subject that sickens me. That is, how the govt, people and media in Europe and the USA treat Israel. They are devils, but more likely just plain stupid and could not care less about the truth.

Maybe if Israel treated the Palestinians like humans, but until then, Israel sucks.

You've been there and you know this first hand experience.

 

[turzovka]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

They were Jews. And their enemies quickly learned not to fuck with them unless they wanted a can of whoop ass opened up

It is one subject that sickens me. That is, how the govt, people and media in Europe and the USA treat Israel. They are devils, but more likely just plain stupid and could not care less about the truth.

Maybe if Israel treated the Palestinians like humans, but until then, Israel sucks. After all the Palestinians are the Hebrew kin, Semites.

Penelope, I have read all I care to read about your feelings towards Jews or Israel and some of your exchanges with Rosie. It is more than enough for me to avoid you on this subject. You have an axe to grind to put it mildly and do not strike me as at all reasonable or fair. (It is not very Catholic either IMO)

So I doubt I will be engaging you on the subject of Israel and the Jews. Do not think you will conquer or convince us of much.

 

[aris2chat]

Palestine. My late father, Abdul Musa Obeidallah, was born there in the 1930s. When I say Palestine, that’s not a political statement. It’s just a statement of fact. When he was born, there was no state of Israel. There was no Hamas. No PLO. There were just people of different faiths living together on the same small piece of land called Palestine.

My father, like the seven generations of Obeidallahs born before him in his sleepy farming town of Battir, didn’t harbor grand dreams or bold plans. They lived a simple life of growing fruits, vegetables, and lots of olive trees. (Palestinians love olives!) Their biggest battles weren’t with other people, but with the elements.

Most of my Palestinian ancestors lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. That would likely have been my father’s path as well. But as we are all keenly aware, fate had far different plans.


I share this story because I think that lost in the current Gaza conflict is the story of the Palestinians as a people. Instead, they’ve been continually defined as being the “bad” part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They’ve been broadly labeled as terrorists or seen as acceptable losses. Some Israeli leaders have alleged Palestinians don’t exist, or called them “cockroaches,” “crocodiles,” or a “cancer.”

As you might imagine, being Palestinian is unique. When you tell someone you’re of Palestinian heritage, it’s not just an ethnicity, it’s a conversation starter. In fact, just saying the word Palestine inflames some. People will tell me to my face that there has never been a Palestine and there are no such thing as Palestinians. To them, I guess Palestinians are simply holograms.
Do Palestinians Really Exist?

The vast majority of palestinian refugees from 1948 and soon thereafter were what? They were egyptians, lebanese, syrians, et al. who moved in the same time Jews came to that land. And why did they come? Because the Jews developed a wasteland and turned it into a thriving region that offered employment to all these Arabs who came in and then decided they too were now palestinians.

So then why do all these Arab nations attack Israel in 1948? What did the Jews do wrong?

Actually the UN had a very hard time with just what to consider on this one, in the end they worded things very carefully, eventually placing a definition of palestinian refugees such that they could identify them and administer aid.

It reads as follows
Quote
WHO ARE PALESTINE REFUGEES?
Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”
UNRWA services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of Palestine refugee males, including adopted children, are also eligible for registration. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.
End Quote

This definition delt with the nationality end of the issue as well as the heritage and religious issue. By omitting any reference to either and making the definition pertain to place of residence only and only within a 2 year period of time.

Where it gets sticky is when under its own charter rules it failed to segregate legitimate refugees from combatants. And since combatants or descendants of combatants are not eligible for refugee status. we have a huge mess today with not only illegal combatants but the UN lending aid to one of the waring parties, which is wildly illegal under the UNs own charter as well as a few other elements of law.

Fine. The U.N. essentially gave refugee status to any Arab in the region at the time. That hardly surprises me. I was only making the point that more than half of those Arabs would not even have been living there if it were not for the efforts of the Jewish people to turn it into arable land and thriving economy for which these Arabs or palestinians all benefited.

There are far large points of contention than who is a palestinian, such as, what right do any of those Arabs who moved into the land or even those generations who have lived there --- what right do they have to say that Jews could not live there? It was Ottoman territory and the Jews purchased wasteland from the Ottoman Turks or more often from absentee wealthy Arab landlords living in Egypt and elsewhere. None of this adds up to any right for neighboring ARab armies to attack them and try to destroy them.

When the mandated ended there was only a requirement to have lived in the mandate for two years to be considered "palestinian" when applying for refugee status.

Yes, and by then the U.N. was no pal of the Jews. And has never been since. But it does translate the word "palestinian" rather loosely in many ways.

Anyway, I have no problem with who they decided was to receive refugee status, the problems are with how the world treated Israel then and now. It is a total crime. Every one of those "refugees" could have gone back to their homes and the land of Israel if any of those dastardly Arab nations would have signed some kind of peace treaty with Israel. Of course they would not.

So what's a fledgling nation surrounded by enemies to do? Let them all in so they can be destroyed all the easier?
Which also raises the question why are 2 1/2 million Arabs living peacefully in Israel today? Those who never left back then never considered leaving since.

1948 Palestinian: “We Fled...They Didn’t Expel Us”; Lies about Israel, lies about Jews
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2016/01/0114-links-pt2-1948-palestinian-we.html …