Where are the basics of military science described?

[rupol2000]

Americans especially throw doctrine out the window when the war actually appears.

The concept of doctrine is usually applied not to military action, but to the general policy of warfare. The Reagan Doctrine worked and absolutely paid off. Other doctrines must be studied in order to draw conclusions.

 

[rupol2000]

Although the Reagan doctrine contained a general strategy. He used the national liberation movements of freedom fighters within leftist regimes. This made it possible to use the US military resource economically and efficiently.

 

[SavannahMann]

There is some early 20th century literature on deep combat theory.

And it was all wrong.

Books before World War I claimed the interconnected nature of Trade would prevent a war from lasting more than six months. That doctrine was translated into more than a dozen languages. Everyone knew it was right. It was wrong.

Another book was the effect of Sea Power on world events. That one claimed that Battleships would rule the wars of the future. In reality it was Submarines and Merchant Hulls. The merchant hills carried vitally needed supplies. And the submarine was targeting those supplies. The Battleship was powerless to affect the outcome of that battle.

Post War One and every book is written about the effect of Defensive Doctrine. They had learned the lessons of War One. But again. It was wrong.

All the war plans of the Americans centered on Battleships sailing forth to do glorious and decisive battle. In December 7th 1941 that Doctrine was trashed never to be raised again. The era of the Carrier had begun.

For ground battle the Tank reigned supreme. And today the Tank is nearly finished sliding into obsolescence. Today an Infantryman with a simple guided missile can destroy the millions of dollars of tank with ease.

War Two was defined by armored strikes. Deep strike doctrine.

Korea. Deep strike with armor is not possible. The bridges and terrain did not permit it. Instead it was once again infantry taking and holding hills. But AirPower shined. In supporting the infantry.

Vietnam. The beginning of the doctrine of vertical envelopment. With incredibly dense jungle it was not possible to take and hold terrain. The enemy would snipe at you from the jungle. So it became a war of attrition.

The lessons learned in each war are essentially obsolete in the next war. Look at Gulf War 2.0. From starting with Tanks to ending up in MRAP’s and armored vehicles. The troops went from classic infantry to motorized troops. And even the Infantry Tactics changed to suit the enemy and the terrain.

 

[rupol2000]

And it was all wrong.

This was confirmed by the great generals. In particular, Tukhachevsky adhered to this theory, and he had successful combat experience.

It is partly obvious that Germany used this at the beginning of World War II, because they relied on tank troops and professional officers. All this predetermines the success of the attack on key sectors of the enemy front.
the first 3 years of the war with the USSR, Germany fought successfully, it carried out a lightning-fast plan in the southern and central directions.

 

[rupol2000]

Books before World War I claimed the interconnected nature of Trade would prevent a war from lasting more than six months. That doctrine was translated into more than a dozen languages. Everyone knew it was right. It was wrong.

This is self-evident nonsense. Firstly, then trade was not yet strongly connected, secondly, there is supply from the allies, third the country itself can have all the necessary resources

 

[eagle1462010]

“There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Perhaps we should have read that in 2001

 

[rupol2000]

For ground battle the Tank reigned supreme. And today the Tank is nearly finished sliding into obsolescence. Today an Infantryman with a simple guided missile can destroy the millions of dollars of tank with ease.

Nothing of the sort, the tanks are not outdated, they have their own uses.
And the rocketman is not, strictly speaking, an infantryman.

 

[rupol2000]

Vietnam. The beginning of the doctrine of vertical envelopment. With incredibly dense jungle it was not possible to take and hold terrain. The enemy would snipe at you from the jungle. So it became a war of attrition.

Mauritius the Strategist wrote about this yet.

 

[rupol2000]

Perhaps we should have read that in 2001

There was no war, just the maintenance of order and the destruction of small groups of terrorists. All this is happening inside the United States, the police are doing this.

 

[eagle1462010]

There was no war, just the maintenance of order and the destruction of small groups of terrorists. All this is happening inside the United States, the police are doing this.

Call it what you will. But we fought on the terrorist terms and did it for decades. The end result didn't amount to much. Except money spent to hell and back so paid off politicians can help their buddies making the weapons.

We should have stomped their ass quick. Left and rebuilt nothing. TOTAL WAR. Not the BS we did.

 

[SavannahMann]

This is self-evident nonsense. Firstly, then trade was not yet strongly connected, secondly, there is supply from the allies, third the country itself can have all the necessary resources

The Great Illusion - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It was a widely held belief. It was studied in every nation of the world.

 

[rupol2000]

Except money spent to hell and back so paid off politicians can help their buddies making the weapons.

This money is not wasted. They were pissed off by the left who gave Afghanistan to terrorists for free. This debt now hangs on them.

If some morons do not understand the meaning of these investments, this does not mean it were wasted.

 

[eagle1462010]

This money is not wasted. They were pissed off by the left who gave Afghanistan to terrorists for free. This debt now hangs on them.

If some morons do not understand the meaning of these investments, this does not mean it were wasted.

War is fought not just on the battlefield.......It is also political and economic.

Economically in the middle east we just got our ass kicked. And the end result is the same. Except for handing over billions of dollars of military equipment.

The Middle East is quicksand. Always has been. Everyone who has went there in history knows this. The more your wiggle to get out of it, the deeper you get.

 

[SavannahMann]

Nothing of the sort, the tanks are not outdated, they have their own uses.
And the rocketman is not, strictly speaking, an infantryman.

It is unlikely to the limit that a major tank battle will again take place. What happens now is conflict in cities. Where tanks are worthless. To combat in terrain where again Tanks are too limited. The likely hood that battle will take place on nice open plains or fields is almost laughable.

The enemy is not a fool. They are not so dumb as to fight to our strengths. They fight to their own strengths. It is called inflicting your will upon the enemy.

Tanks are fragile. Much more so than a non military person would believe. So you can’t drive them far without them breaking down. It is why Armies transport Tanks on flatbeds to near the point of contact.

We showed the world that Drones make great weapons platforms. Now. Everyone and their cousin has them. Piss any countries that can’t field a decent army has a dozen drones.

And drones can kill tanks easily.

The next war will be drone warfare. I am honestly surprised that Terrorists haven’t begun with it already. Cartels in Mexico are already packing explosives onto inexpensive drones and attacking the police and military with them.



I am surprised they haven’t started attacking the ICE agents with them. Any time now they will.

Turkey is producing and selling very inexpensive drones. Military weapon carrying drones.



And let’s not forget smart bombs.

This class is designed for attacking Tank groups.

And we aren’t the only ones with similar weapons.



Like the Battleship, the Tank will carry on by momentum and a belief of one more major tank battle in the future. But those days are pretty much gone.

 

[rupol2000]

War is fought not just on the battlefield.......It is also political and economic.

Economically in the middle east we just got our ass kicked. And the end result is the same. Except for handing over billions of dollars of military equipment.

The Middle East is quicksand. Always has been. Everyone who has went there in history knows this. The more your wiggle to get out of it, the deeper you get.

I am not interested in this hippie delirium, and Afghanistan is not the middle east, and there is no quicksand there. The leftists do not even know geography, but try to talk about the war.

 

[eagle1462010]

I am not interested in this hippie delirium, and Afghanistan is not the middle east, and there is no quicksand there. The leftists do not even know geography, but try to talk about the war.

I am no leftist. I have served in the Middle East. And never ending Wars are BS.

The economic cost on the United States was too high. And all we did is give advantage to the Shiites via Iraq over the Sunnis. These 2 groups have been at it forever. Sudan being the current version of it.

 

[rupol2000]

I am no leftist

So you are latent leftist

 

[SavannahMann]

This money is not wasted. They were pissed off by the left who gave Afghanistan to terrorists for free. This debt now hangs on them.

If some morons do not understand the meaning of these investments, this does not mean it were wasted.

Oh FFS. I did nine years in the Army. I knew we were going to lose in Afghanistan in 2008. What would you do that would give us a victory?

 

[rupol2000]

I have served in the Middle East. And never ending

When there was a normal government in the country, they finished with Hussein in one day. This was just a real military operation, not a presence.

 

[eagle1462010]

So you are latent leftist

No. After 9/11 I'd have taken the gloves off and ripped the Taliban a new asshole. Had Iran bitched I'd have hit them too. And it would have been TOTAL WAR.

That convoy that went to Tora Bora would have been wiped off the face of the earth.

Then I would have left and said don't you ever piss us off again.

The middle east would have known that the games were over and it would have been over in 6 months.