When the GWB admin. takes Veterans issues seriously

[Psychoblues]

Then maybe I will take the GWB Admin. more favorably.

Even the active duty troops right now are so pissed that he can't possibly count on military support in 2004. The reservists are beside themselves with anger. Us old vets ain't impressed either. I guess that leaves the rest of the uninterested and uninformed to create support for this most irresponsible and blame-gaming bunch to count on, don't you think?

The GWB Admin. has done nothing for Veterans, even taken from them and deny them in many ways. Heck, they even tried to cut out hazardous duty pay in areas that certainly, even today, qualify as "hazardous duty". They obviously don't give a damn about Vets or their present day pawns that they present as "soldiers", or do they? That's an honest question!!!!!!!!

I take all of this personally and I think the only reason one might not take it personally is that they have shallow or no understanding or appreciation for the dilemmas and the duties of our troops.

Sorry to rant on you, I just think our country can do better for those that give so much for "OUR" country. I guess I'll hear a few howls of disagreement here, but I really want to hear them.

 

[jon_forward]

Psycho, my twin bro is set to retire from the military this june with 29 plus years in..... from what he tells me...the only times that the military has gotten treated right.was when the REpublicans hold the white house....you could be right about the reserves not being happy....they knew that there was a chance that something like this would happen. No one MADE them re-up.They did it for the MONEY, they did it for THE BENNIES.... Why should Uncle sam not expect them to honor their commitment??? hazard pay??? while overseas...in combat area NO ONE PAYS TAXES........NONE ZERO...any idea how much that is??? The only thing that I hear the actives grip about is why we waited so long to take the shitbag out... The 6 month wait at Vets hosp is now under 30 days and dropping fast...the boys also just got a raise around 7% I think..... G.W HAS the military vote!!!! dont kid yourself....what have any of the Democratic hopefuls done for the military????

 

[Psychoblues]

Don't make me laugh, jon!!!!!!!!! You present an argument based on a faulty belief system and nothing based on fact. Just read some Army Times, or Air Force Times, or Stars and Stripes, or VFW magazine or Sergeant magazine or even your current newspaper. I stand by what I say. Our Vets and our Soldiers are not behind the policies of the GWB Admin. one tiny bit. In fact, from what I read, they're pretty damn sick of it.

 

[jon_forward]

when I have a choice between what someone I dont know personally says, someone writes or the words of my bro who is still in the military I will go with my bro everytime....there is nothing faulty about my beliefs .....back up what you state psycho....all I have is my opinion and what I have gathered from HUMINT....post away...links please...facts, figuresand dates would be nice

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
Don't make me laugh, jon!!!!!!!!! You present an argument based on a faulty belief system and nothing based on fact. Just read some Army Times, or Air Force Times, or Stars and Stripes, or VFW magazine or Sergeant magazine or even your current newspaper. I stand by what I say. Our Vets and our Soldiers are not behind the policies of the GWB Admin. one tiny bit. In fact, from what I read, they're pretty damn sick of it.

That's very odd, Psycho. You claim Jon posted nothing based on fact, then you go on to reveal that your sources are magazines and newspapers. You haven't posted anything factual at all either.

Jon based his on reality and you based yours on a strangers writing. I'll have to agree with Jon, post your facts and figures and then you can talk. Until then, please don't make US laugh.

 

[acludem]

Did you look at the magazines psycho mentions? They are all magazines, written by and for active military and/or veterans. I also have two friends in the military, neither are in Iraq thank goodness, and two uncles who served, one in the Navy, the other in the Air Force. My two friends, both of whom are Republicans and voted for Bush in 2000, are strongly considering crossing party lines if Kerry is the Democratic nominee because they think Bush doesn't understand military issues and veterans' issues. My Air Force uncle is a rock-ribbed Republican and would never vote for a Democrat, the Navy one, however, is extremely displeased with Bush's veterans policies. I do not think Bush should put the military vote in his bank account. Kerry, being a veteran, would have a lot of pull for our soldiers, if he gets the nomination.

acludem

 

[jon_forward]

The problems that the Vets speak of did not happen overnite and as much as alot would like to think,, you dont just snap your fingers and fix something that has been broke for along time...Did I make this point clear enough???Its not a political problem so much as a governmental problem

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by acludem
Did you look at the magazines psycho mentions? They are all magazines, written by and for active military and/or veterans. I also have two friends in the military, neither are in Iraq thank goodness, and two uncles who served, one in the Navy, the other in the Air Force. My two friends, both of whom are Republicans and voted for Bush in 2000, are strongly considering crossing party lines if Kerry is the Democratic nominee because they think Bush doesn't understand military issues and veterans' issues. My Air Force uncle is a rock-ribbed Republican and would never vote for a Democrat, the Navy one, however, is extremely displeased with Bush's veterans policies. I do not think Bush should put the military vote in his bank account. Kerry, being a veteran, would have a lot of pull for our soldiers, if he gets the nomination.

acludem

I don't doubt the validity of the magazines/newspapers. I just don't think they speak for everyone in the military or veterans. If their is a poll for the millions that those medias reach, then we'll have something, but articles don't tell the whole story.

I get Maxim magazine. If they write articles that are Anti-Bush, does that mean that all of their audience feels that way?

I also get a monthly newsletter from the town I live in and it forever covers political issues. Does this newsletter speak for the entire town?

These are no different than other media outlets, they are there to sell a story.

What if sports illustrated releases a statement vowing to back Bush, does this mean all sports enthusiasts will follow suit?

I can produce articles showing current military and veterans in support of Bush. What does this mean? That they ALL support Bush?

I wouldn't put the vote in a bank account just yet either, but I also wouldn't dismiss the vote as psycho has. Nor would I present my data as fact and laugh at another users opinion.

 

[lilcountriegal]

Kerry, being a veteran, would have a lot of pull for our soldiers, if he gets the nomination

I'm just gonna toss my opinion in here on this issue... I wouldnt bank on the majority of the veterans voting for Kerry strictly because of his military service versus the record of Bush.

The republicans have yet to begin the actual campaign... the Democrats are currently running Bush's service record through the mud. When the Republicans begin, you can damn well bet that the issue of Kerry's attitude toward veterans when he came back from Vietnam is going to be thrown into the ring. That, alone, is enough to piss off at least half the military force.

One thing that all military servicemen are is proud... getting stabbed in the back from one of their own wont sit well.

 

[janeeng]

jon, I will agree with you 100% here! I have a couple of friends that one is still in the Army, one who retired! both have sided with Bush. Unfortanately, I just found out that the one still active has been sent to Iraq, but funny, he's happy about going. He loves his job, and has been doing it for over 20 years too! This coming from mouth instead of things that we read, I too would take more so. You can have an interview with someone and have it all turned around by who took that interview.

 

[eric]

OH just wait till the Bush PR machine kicks in !! This will be great to watch Kerry ripped to pieces !!!

Gotta love that soft money !

 

[jon_forward]

Originally posted by eric
OH just wait till the Bush PR machine kicks in !! This will be great to watch Kerry ripped to pieces !!!

Gotta love that soft money !

I dont think it will be very pretty!....The Democrats should laugh and smile for the cameras while they can....soon the gloves come off....

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

kerry doesn't understand the military despite the bullshit he's says. here are parts of a piece i posted in another kerry thread


http://bjcat0.tripod.com/kerrylies.htm

Kerry Has Voted For At Least Seven Major Reductions In Defense And Military Spending Necessary For Our National Security.

In 1996, Introduced Bill To Slash Defense Department Funding By $6.5 Billion.

In 1995, Voted To Freeze Defense Spending For 7 Years, Slashing Over $34 Billion From Defense.

Fiscal 1996 Budget Resolution – Defense Freeze. “Harkin, D-Iowa, amendment to freeze defense spending for the next seven years and transfer the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training.”

In 1993, Introduced Plan To Cut Numerous Defense Programs, Including:

Cut the number of Navy submarines and their crews

Reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one

Reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force

Terminate the Navy’s coastal mine-hunting ship program

Force the retirement of no less than 60,000 members of the Armed Forces in one year.

Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Defense Spending, Including:

In 1993, Voted Against Increased Defense Spending For Military Pay Raise. Kerry voted to kill an increase in military pay over five years.

In 1992, Voted To Cut $6 Billion From Defense.

In 1991, Voted To Slash Over $3 Billion From Defense, Shift Money To Social Programs.

In 1991, Voted To Cut Defense Spending By 2%.

Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Or Eliminate Funding For B-2 Stealth Bomber Has Voted Repeatedly Against Missile Defense. Weapons Kerry Sought To Phase Out Were Vital In Iraq. “[K]erry supported cancellation of a host of weapons systems that have become the basis of US military might -- the high-tech munitions and delivery systems on display to the world as they leveled the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein in a matter of weeks.” (Brian C. Mooney, “Taking One Prize, Then A Bigger One,” The Boston Globe, 6/19/03)

Military hardware he felt we no longer need since the "cold war" is past. The money would be better spent on "social" programs. These weapons are now the core of our military might.

F-16 Fighting Falcons.

B-1Bs B-2As F-15 And F-16s.

M1 Abrams.

Patriot Missile.

AH-64 Apache Helicopter

Tomahawk Cruise Missile.

Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser

During 1980s, Kerry And Michael Dukakis Joined Forces With Liberal Group Dedicated To Slashing Defense. Kerry sat on the board of “Jobs With Peace Campaign,” which sought to “develop public support for cutting the defense budget…”(“Pentagon Demonstrators Call For Home-Building, Not Bombs,” The Associated Press, 6/3/88)

Running For Congress In 1972, Kerry Promised To Cut Defense Spending. “On what he’ll do if he’s elected to Congress, Kerry said he would ‘bring a different kind of message to the president.’ He said he would vote against military appropriations.” (“Candidate’s For Congress Capture Campus In Andover,” Lawrence [MA] Eagle-Tribune, 4/21/72)

“So you can look at all the potential threats of the world, and when you add the expenditures of all of our allies to the United States of America, you have to stop and say to yourself, ‘What is it that we are really preparing for in a post-cold-war world?’”(Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 5/15/96, p. S5061)

 

[Jeff]

the treatment of our fighting men & woman has always been poor.... I had a friend of mine in nam he did his time & then was sent overseas to finish his duty ...but ( i forget where )where he went we had a embassy there so he didnt get over seas pay ... to make a long story short he asked for a tranfer & they did just that they sent him right back to nam!!!...I worked with this guy for a few yrs , it was a real shame the shape he was in...being he went to the VA as a out patient he couldnt even own a shot gun to hunt with...all cause he asnwered the call of duty....so the mistreatment of our soldiers started long before the Bush Admin
Jeff

 

[Meat & Potatoes]

Originally posted by lilcountriegal
I'm just gonna toss my opinion in here on this issue... I wouldnt bank on the majority of the veterans voting for Kerry strictly because of his military service versus the record of Bush.

The republicans have yet to begin the actual campaign... the Democrats are currently running Bush's service record through the mud. When the Republicans begin, you can damn well bet that the issue of Kerry's attitude toward veterans when he came back from Vietnam is going to be thrown into the ring. That, alone, is enough to piss off at least half the military force.

One thing that all military servicemen are is proud... getting stabbed in the back from one of their own wont sit well.

I served in the Marine Corps for four years.I don't consider any
Veteran that returned from Viet Nam and protested as having stabbed me in the back.
I also will not diminsh G.Bushes military service.I was told once that all the time he was flying there wasn't a single VC that was able to cross the Rio Grand.
The point I am trying to make is that George Bush really would
never have had a reason to protest that war.He was never in any real danger of being drafted to fight it.His actions proved he had no intentions of showing his support for it[by volunteering to serve in it].And I believe he is so far removed from the average American that he could never be bothered to try to understand the consquences of it.
I'm convinced not much has happened in his life since then to change anything.

Kerry definately gets my vote.

I would like to hear what other Veterans think.

 

[jon_forward]

you might want to read the book he wrote before you say who you are voting for....the war with vietnam was not a popular one ...but it was fought none the less....by stabbed in the back by one of their own, Kerry has voted AGAINST the military more often then not...who puts money before the safety of our fighting force??? what kerry wants to do is take the USA back to the 40's and try and rewrite history...aint gonna happen... I am glad you are going to vote...with out reguards to who it may be..

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Meat & Potatoes
I served in the Marine Corps for four years.I don't consider any
Veteran that returned from Viet Nam and protested as having stabbed me in the back.
I also will not diminsh G.Bushes military service.I was told once that all the time he was flying there wasn't a single VC that was able to cross the Rio Grand.
The point I am trying to make is that George Bush really would
never have had a reason to protest that war.He was never in any real danger of being drafted to fight it.His actions proved he had no intentions of showing his support for it[by volunteering to serve in it].And I believe he is so far removed from the average American that he could never be bothered to try to understand the consquences of it.
I'm convinced not much has happened in his life since then to change anything.

Kerry definately gets my vote.

I would like to hear what other Veterans think.

Kerry, came home, stuck his finger in the air to see which way the wind was blowing, and then jumped on board with that harpy, Fonda. And to show his conviction, he threw someone else's medals over the white house fence. And the women have always worn the pants in this loser's life. But sure, he's great.

 

[Meat & Potatoes]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Kerry, came home, stuck his finger in the air to see which way the wind was blowing, and then jumped on board with that harpy, Fonda. And to show his conviction, he threw someone else's medals over the white house fence. And the women have always worn the pants in this loser's life. But sure, he's great.

Hey Avenger I dissagree but you've got a great sense of humor

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Meat & Potatoes
Hey Avenger I dissagree but you've got a great sense of humor

Yes. This is my M.O.! Thanks for noticing.

 

[lilcountriegal]

I served in the Marine Corps for four years.I don't consider any Veteran that returned from Viet Nam and protested as having stabbed me in the back.
I also will not diminsh G.Bushes military service.I was told once that all the time he was flying there wasn't a single VC that was able to cross the Rio Grand.
The point I am trying to make is that George Bush really would
never have had a reason to protest that war.He was never in any real danger of being drafted to fight it.His actions proved he had no intentions of showing his support for it[by volunteering to serve in it].And I believe he is so far removed from the average American that he could never be bothered to try to understand the consquences of it.
I'm convinced not much has happened in his life since then to change anything.

You served in the military... may I ask if you were involved with Vietnam in that capacity?

I know many military personnel... both family and friends. I live in a small town of about 1,000 people.. all very proud. Over half of the men in this town were in Vietnam and saw combat in one form or another. To sit and talk with these gentlemen is an honor. The stories they tell are truly moving. One such story comes to mind of a very good friend of mine, "Bill". He served in Vietnam, his brother and his best friend as well. His brother still has flashbacks. They are proud men. They dont sit and tell their stories unless they've had some alcohol to loosen up. My friend tells of a story where his brother, riding in a helicopter, had opportunity to rescue some injured soldiers. Of the men they rescued that day was the "best friend". They were shot, bleeding, hungry, wet, cold, and wanting to go home. They were there serving their country, whether they disagreed or agreed with the mission. Less than a month later, they returned home only wanting to put the horror behind them. They landed in (I believe he said) the state of Washington. What greeted them is not what they expected. Anti-war protestors spitting on them, heckling, and yelling obsenities.

To date, Bill's brother still suffers flashbacks and is a true alcoholic in every form. His best friend has recently passed of heart disease (also probably from drinking). Bill is a great man, and very proud of his country.. an officer with the local VFW and very vocal on issues. The only story Bill tells is the one I listed. Along with the horrors of war they saw, the anti-war protesting and what they're "fellow citizens" did to them upon return is burned in his memory beyond belief. He has not forgot, and he will NEVER forget.

I disagree. Kerry's actions as an anti-war protestor WILL matter come election time. People do not forget as easily as Kerry's wishes they will.