When man tells God, you can't....

[Mac-7]

Naw, man, that's my tagline..

Your tagline is part of everything you post and fair game to comment on

 

[JoeB131]

Your tagline is part of everything you post and fair game to comment on

Yawn, buddy, I realize you can't comment on the topic.

 

[buttercup]

When man tells God, You can't tell me what to do.... it's like saying he/she was there in the very beginning telling God what to make/create and what not to make/create.

I wouldn't tell God what to do, but would ask him why he created imperfect beings and then punish them eternally for being imperfect.

You have a completely warped perception of God, it's no wonder you're a nonbeliever. God didn't create sinners, he created clean slates, with the ability to make choices, good or bad. Don't blame God for your own actions. Especially when He literally stood in your place and took the price upon himself for YOU so that you could be forgiven forever and have a right relationship with Him. And that is a gift that anyone can either receive or reject.

 

[Mac-7]

Yawn, buddy, I realize you can't comment on the topic.

I have commented many times

God is real

 

[JoeB131]

You have a completely warped perception of God, it's no wonder you're a nonbeliever. God didn't create us to be sinners, he created clean slates, with the ability to make choices, good or bad. Don't blame God for your own actions. Especially when He literally stood in your place and took the price upon himself for YOU so that you could be forgiven forever and have a right relationship with Him. And that is a gift that anyone can either receive or reject.

Okay, I'm going to have a little fun with this one.

So God created Adam and Eve to be clean slates, but then he puts a Tree of Knowledge right next to them (as opposed to moving it somewhere they can't get it) and actually put really nice fruits on it that looked tasty and then allowed a talking snake to hang around and talk shit.

And poor Adam and Eve, having no real knowledge at that point, no real life experience, goof up.

Kind of makes God seem like a cruel bastard.

 

[The Irish Ram]

When man tells God, You can't tell me what to do.... it's like saying he/she was there in the very beginning telling God what to make/create and what not to make/create.

I wouldn't tell God what to do, but would ask him why he created imperfect beings and then punish them eternally for being imperfect.

And He would tell you, not only do I not punish you, I was tortured and died in your place to make sure you don't recieve the punishment you deserve, then offered My sin free record to enter Heaven with, instead of your own.
What else is it that you require of Him?

 

[The Irish Ram]

When man tells God, You can't tell me what to do.... it's like saying he/she was there in the very beginning telling God what to make/create and what not to make/create.

Here is what God told Job when He questioned God:

“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels[a] shouted for joy?

 

[buttercup]

You have a completely warped perception of God, it's no wonder you're a nonbeliever. God didn't create us to be sinners, he created clean slates, with the ability to make choices, good or bad. Don't blame God for your own actions. Especially when He literally stood in your place and took the price upon himself for YOU so that you could be forgiven forever and have a right relationship with Him. And that is a gift that anyone can either receive or reject.

Okay, I'm going to have a little fun with this one.

So God created Adam and Eve to be clean slates, but then he puts a Tree of Knowledge right next to them (as opposed to moving it somewhere they can't get it) and actually put really nice fruits on it that looked tasty and then allowed a talking snake to hang around and talk shit.

And poor Adam and Eve, having no real knowledge at that point, no real life experience, goof up.

Kind of makes God seem like a cruel bastard.

Even if the Tree of Knowledge never existed, they still would have had the same situation, to make choices, to either trust God or go against God. Having free will does not make God cruel. What is the alternative, to create robots, preprogrammed to do whatever He wants them to do? That would not only be wrong, but pointless.

 

[JoeB131]

And He would tell you, not only do I not punish you, I was tortured and died in your place to make sure you don't recieve the punishment you deserve, then offered My sin free record to enter Heaven with, instead of your own.
What else is it that you require of Him?

Actually, that's kind of fucked up.

Here's a great video that shows WHY that's fucked up.



So it's time for my favorite analogy- Jeff Dahmner and Anne Frank.

So by Christian Standards, Jeff Dahmner would be sitting on a cloud right now, with a harp and a halo, because before he died, he renounced all his sins of murder, cannibalism and homosexuality and accepted Jesus into his heart, and all his sins were forgiven. Praise Jesus. Hopefully, he didn't run into anyone he ate up there, because man, that would be awkward.

MEANWHILE- Anne Frank never accepted Jesus into her heart. So whatever sins of anger she had before she died at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, she died with those sins, because she never accepted Jesus into her heart. She'll burn in Hell for all eternity. Hopefully, she doesn't run into Hitler down there, because, man, that would be awkward.

And this is why Christian Salvation and Grace and Forgiveness is kind of fucked up.

 

[JoeB131]

Even if the Tree of Knowledge never existed, they still would have had the same situation, to make choices, to either trust God or go against God. Having free will does not make God cruel. What is the alternative, to create robots, preprogrammed to do whatever He wants them to do? That would not only be wrong, but pointless.

Actually, here's a crazy idea. Give them free will, but only really hold them accountable for things that are wrong.

in the Bible, working on Sunday is a sin worthy of death, being gay is worthy of death, but holding slaves is okay.

God didn't change his mind on these things, so we changed ours.

 

[JoeB131]

Here is what God told Job when He questioned God:

Here's another great example! Have you actually read the book of Job?

All those bad things happened to Job because Satan made a bet with God that he could make Job's life so fucking miserable he'd curse God. What kind of a sociopath does that?

 

[John T. Ford]

LMAO ....

If you ever wanna check out just how sick these sick fvck Leftist are .....

Dare to read a few comments in a Religion thread.

 

[buttercup]

Even if the Tree of Knowledge never existed, they still would have had the same situation, to make choices, to either trust God or go against God. Having free will does not make God cruel. What is the alternative, to create robots, preprogrammed to do whatever He wants them to do? That would not only be wrong, but pointless.

Actually, here's a crazy idea. Give them free will, but only really hold them accountable for things that are wrong.

in the Bible, working on Sunday is a sin worthy of death, being gay is worthy of death, but holding slaves is okay.

God didn't change his mind on these things, so we changed ours.

Wow, too many wrong things to address in depth, but for starters, you are conflating two entirely different things. Like most atheists, you point to temporal laws that stopped being in effect thousands of years ago, instead of God's eternal law which is what matters.

Since the time of Jesus, we are under the covenant of GRACE. That doesn't mean that homosexuality is not a sin... It still is, but there is forgiveness, as there is for ALL sins.

I would go into the purpose of the law, but I doubt you're really interested, so I don't want to waste my time and effort. In my experience most atheists just want to argue, mock and attack.

 

[The Irish Ram]

So it's time for my favorite analogy- Jeff Dahmner and Anne Frank

Children aren't held accountable by God. They go straight up. And if Jeffery Dahmer's heart was truly repentant then he too is redeemed.
So much for your favorite analogy...

 

[JoeB131]

Wow, too many wrong things to address in depth, but for starters, you are conflating two entirely different things. Like most atheists, you point to temporal laws that stopped being in effect thousands of years ago, instead of God's eternal law which is what matters.

Except those rules never stopped being "in effect". We didn't end slavery when Jesus came, it took another 1800 years to do that. We were burning witches all the way up until 300 years ago. (Some third world countries, they still kill suspected witches).

God's laws aren't "eternal". that's the thing. God doesn't change his mind, we change ours and then we pretend God was with us the whole time.

Since the time of Jesus, we are under the covenant of GRACE. That doesn't mean that homosexuality is not a sin... It still is, but there is forgiveness, as there is for ALL sins.

Why is it a "sin". Frankly, the only reason you guys give me for why it's a sin is because "you think it's icky" and "God says it's bad". In another 50 years, all churches will be accepting homosexuals and all pretending that was God's plan all along. Just like they do with racism now.

I would go into the purpose of the law, but I doubt you're really interested, so I don't want to waste my time and effort. In my experience most atheists just want to argue, mock and attack.

The problem is, you wouldn't want to live under Bible Law any more than I would. You'd probably get stoned by a crowd in a week.

 

[JoeB131]

Children aren't held accountable by God. They go straight up. And if Jeffery Dahmer's heart was truly repentant then he too is redeemed.
So much for your favorite analogy...

Ann Frank was 16 when she died. We throw 16 year olds into prison.

if non-Christian "Children" go straight to heaven, why do you guys makes such a big deal about baptizing them?

As for Chef Jeff. I don't care if he was repentant or not. The State of Wisconsin wasn't either. They'd have kept him in jail for the rest of his life no matter how sorry he was he ate those guys.

So, sorry, a universe where Ann Frank goes to Hell and Jeff Dahmner goes to heaven is still fucked up.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Children aren't held accountable by God. They go straight up.

17 “Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.
Oh, that wasn't meant to apply to "children," silly! Besides, that was the old, cranky model. We just ignore that jerk completely now!

 

[buttercup]

Except those rules never stopped being "in effect". We didn't end slavery when Jesus came, it took another 1800 years to do that. We were burning witches all the way up until 300 years ago. (Some third world countries, they still kill suspected witches).

I was talking about the Mosaic covenant. You are now talking about something else entirely. You're talking about things that PEOPLE have done, in the last couple thousand years, and putting the blame on God.

It's interesting to me how atheists always ignore the New Testament and the words of Jesus, and instead focus on everything but that!

Jesus said that the two greatest commands are: Love God and love others. That's it! That sums up everything.

So anyone 300 years ago who did evil things to people is not to be blamed on God, it is the fault of the twisted person who did those things.

Here's what you don't seem to get. We live in a fallen, corrupt world. Not only is that what the bible has said all along, but it's plainly obvious to anyone with open eyes.

But this world is not at all the way God created it initially and it is NOT the way God wants it to be. In fact, the bible is clear that the temporary ruler of this world, or the lowercase "god of this world" is satan. Which I'm sure you'll scoff at, but all one has to do is look at how evil this world is to see that what the bible says matches with reality.

God's laws aren't "eternal". that's the thing. God doesn't change his mind, we change ours and then we pretend God was with us the whole time.

What doesn't change is God's nature or character. But that doesn't mean that God is always doing the same thing. From a Christian perspective, God has given us certain covenants. Some of those covenants were temporal (only for a specific time period and for a specific group of people) and some are eternal. The one we're in now is eternal. (Ezekiel 37:26, Hebrews 13:20, etc)

Although things are different under the new covenant, the principles behind those laws has always been the same. I hope you understand what I mean by that.

Why is it a "sin". Frankly, the only reason you guys give me for why it's a sin is because "you think it's icky" and "God says it's bad". In another 50 years, all churches will be accepting homosexuals and all pretending that was God's plan all along. Just like they do with racism now.

It's simply against God's will. But so is premarital heterosexual sex, or any sex outside of marriage. If you really want to know why, that is a topic in and of itself, but that's for another time and place.

As for what you said about churches, you are showing that you don't understand Christianity. Any churches that go against God's word in order to go along with the ways of this world are not true Christian churches, they are no different than the world, which the bible clearly and explicitly says we should not be like.

As for your comment on racism, you again clearly show that you don't understand God or Christianity at all, if you think that racism was ever a God thing. The exact opposite is true, and demonstrably so.

Racism has always been wrong, according to the bible. Homosexuality has always been wrong, according to the bible.

What churches do on either of those issues does not change God's word, they just prove that they are either in line with it, or not.

The problem is, you wouldn't want to live under Bible Law any more than I would. You'd probably get stoned by a crowd in a week.

Again, you are stuck on a temporal covenant from more than 3000 years ago that only applied to the Israelites!

How many times does it have to be said that we are under a new covenant, the covenant of GRACE?

One of the main purposes of the law was to show man that none of us can always perfectly live up to God's standard... which is perfection! That is exactly why we need Jesus, because ALL people have sinned and fallen short. So the law was never meant to make people righteous, but to show them their need for forgiveness and to point them to Jesus... who DID fulfill the law perfectly and who stood in our place as our redeemer.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Racism has always been wrong, according to the bible.
{...snip...}
Again, you are stuck on a temporal covenant from more than 3000 years ago that only applied to the Israelites!

How many times does it have to be said that we are under a new covenant, the covenant of GRACE?

Would you like some cheese with that cognitive dissonance?

 

[buttercup]

Racism has always been wrong, according to the bible.
{...snip...}
Again, you are stuck on a temporal covenant from more than 3000 years ago that only applied to the Israelites!

How many times does it have to be said that we are under a new covenant, the covenant of GRACE?

Would you like some cheese with that cognitive dissonance?

What I said was true. Racism has ALWAYS been wrong, for a number of reasons, and it's easy to show that, because the bible is clear that God looks not at our physical appearance but at our HEART.

But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”​

​

1 Samuel 16:7​

It doesn't get much more clear than that.