Zone1 When Has American Isolationism Failed?

[otto105]

No foreign wars?

Seriously that is your measurement for it.

Can you at least think of the people under that dictatorship.

Maybe that say model for you

 

[GLASNOST]

... Did saving the USSR from Germany benefit us in the long run?

What gives you the idea you "saved Germany from the USSR"?

... What, exactly, is wrong with an America First policy that avoids entanglements with foreign affairs?

Why do you think US involvement abroad is an "entanglement in someone else's affairs"?

What military threats do we face that can't be dealt with through a strong defensive capability at home?

What "military threats" do you face at all?

It is often said that we have an obligation to prevent any bad occurrences anywhere in the world, ...

Who says?

... If American Isolationism has failed, it is because it has succumbed to the hypnotic beat of war drums.

This is the same clap-trap side-stepping excuse equal to the phony expression "war breaking out" as though you had no choice but to engage.

Maybe we should turn down that noise and begin thinking for ourselves.

Do you deny that war-making is a home-spun game played to line the pockets of the Military-Incustrial Complex and the politicians who sleep in the same bed with them? I call that "Thinking of/for themselves" alone.

 

[GLASNOST]

..... if we hadn't supported South Korea and later Viet Nam that would have been an open door to Mao and Stalin and Khrushchev that they could take over small countries with impunity.
...

You swallowed the red scare malarkey hook, line, and sinker.

 

[jwoodie]

What gives you the idea you "saved Germany from the USSR"?

Why do you think US involvement abroad is an "entanglement in someone else's affairs"?

What "military threats" do you face at all?

Who says?

This is the same clap-trap side-stepping excuse equal to the phony expression "war breaking out" as though you had no choice but to engage.

Better if you stay in the kiddie pool.

 

[Kilroy2]

American Isolationism became problematic after they were attacked. They could no longer not get involved. German appeared to be making overtures to Mexico to help them regain land. Germany also sank an American submarine.

Then I guess US citizens really like Hawaii. And US was attacked again.

Its kind of hard to be isolationist when your expanding your influence as you become a target.

Still America early history is no different than the Roman Empire. From the original colonies, they spread across from ocean to to the other ocean. They battled the Indians and the Mexicans to gain more land. So they were expanding and that is American history. Isolationism may have been a fad that some pushed for. America's nature has always been to expand its influence.


Expand until there is no land on the planet to expand to. So now space is the next challenge

 

[skews13]

Now to answer the question: Of course not.

For "isolationism" to be said to have failed, it would first need to have been tried...Also, a specifically defined set of circumstances would be required to be set forth, in order to judge "success" and "failure".

Neither have been the case at all in over a century....There's no baseline from which to judge.

So, not helping Europe defend against nazi's, and their probable development of atomic bombs first, was the better decision?

 

[SavannahMann]

You swallowed the red scare malarkey hook, line, and sinker.

So North Korea didn’t cross the 38th Parallel in 1950? China didn’t come in crossing the Yalu River and drive the Allied forces back to the South? Good to know all those history books and documentaries are wrong.

And the alleged fact that the North and China only agreed to the cease fire after Stalin died? Propaganda I say.

 

[DudleySmith]

You swallowed the red scare malarkey hook, line, and sinker.

You swallowed KGB dicks. And, Stalin ran away from Korea like a little bitch.

 

[SavannahMann]

You swallowed KGB dicks. And, Stalin ran away from Korea like a little bitch.

Actually. Stalin died and almost immediately progress started happening in the talks for a Cease Fire.

 

[DudleySmith]

Actually. Stalin died and almost immediately progress started happening in the talks for a Cease Fire.

Actually he talked Mao into allying with him and then ran off and left Mao holding the bag, and then made him pay in gold for Soviet arms. He didn't die until 1953; the war started in June of 1950. Stalin got cold feet and did not want to directly confront the U.S., not with his position in Europe unstable; he also thought the U.S. would back down, since our divisions in the region were way under-strength. When Truman didn't back down, he left Mao in the lurch.

 

[GLASNOST]

Better if you stay in the kiddie pool.

My response was an attempt to elicit a discussion/debate with you WITHOUT insulting you in that way. I see that you are incapable of "thought" in a way that typifies "kiddie pool" mentality. In other words, your post was childish. You have no understanding of national or international issues. While you play paddy cake with Dick & Jane-level propaganda I actually lived in Berlin during the Cold War. What do you know about the relationship between Germany and the USSR ..... nothing. Absolutely NOTHING. All of the other parts of your post (that I quoted) are equally silly. If you don't think so - then try me, Bonzo Boy.

 

[GLASNOST]

So North Korea didn’t cross the 38th Parallel in 1950? China didn’t come in crossing the Yalu River and drive the Allied forces back to the South? Good to know all those history books and documentaries are wrong.

And the alleged fact that the North and China only agreed to the cease fire after Stalin died? Propaganda I say.

Why do you leave out the part about Vietnam and the "Red Scare" fairy tale? If you are ready then put up your dukes and let's get it on.

 

[GLASNOST]

You swallowed KGB dicks. And, Stalin ran away from Korea like a little bitch.

I don't know or care when or if Stalin ran and which direction he chose. What I am telling you is "you swallowed the red scare malarkey hook, line, and sinker". Vietnam was not involved in any international "Red Hoard" Communist doctrine. In fact, it was Vietnam who put a stop to the Communist Khmer Rouge madness in Cambodia while the US hid beneath their little blue blankie.

 

[GLASNOST]

And you're Jane Fonda. Congratulations.

Why do you mention things you don't understand? You don't even know what Jane Fonda did or why, or what the outcome was.

 

[SavannahMann]

Why do you leave out the part about Vietnam and the "Red Scare" fairy tale? If you are ready then put up your dukes and let's get it on.

Soviet and Chinese advisors helped several Communist Dictatorships get started. Cambodia is well known of course, and let’s not forget the Soviet Advisors and combatants in Vietnam.

We knew this at the time as Radio Intercepts showed Russian Speaking pilots of superior skill flying over Vietnam.

Jan J. Safarik: Air Aces Home Page; Soviet Union - Vietnam War

aces.safarikovi.org

We also know and Russia admitted after the wall fell that Russian “Technicians” launched many SAM’s at American planes.

The knowledge that Soviet flagged ships unloaded munitions unmolested in Haiphong Harbor is common.

Russian pilots flew in Korea too.

So there was basis in fact for the Red Scare. The Venona Project decrypted a lot of the Soviet Communications and exposed the various Soviet Spies involved in our and allied Governments.

8 Spies Who Leaked Atomic Bomb Intelligence to the Soviets | HISTORY

These eight men and women (among others) shared atomic secrets that enabled the Soviet Union to successfully detonate its first nuclear weapon by 1949.

www.history.com

As one example the Rosenbergs were named in one intercepted communication.

All of this is of course documented history.

The KGB was extremely effective. The fact that many of their aircraft look a hell of a lot like ours is proof of that.

Let’s not forget the documented success of the Sparrows.

THIRD MARINE GUARD FROM U.S. EMBASSY IN MOSCOW ARRESTED (Published 1987)

www.nytimes.com

The existence of the Sparrow School is now common knowledge. Training prostitutes for State Service.

Sexpionage - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So there was a lot of foundation for the Red Scare. And this isn’t even a small percentage of the examples.

 

[GLASNOST]

Curious. If I get paid by the VA every month for my Service related injuries.

It isn’t a lot of money. And I’ve always considered it more of a statement than a support. A way for the Nation to say. Than you for your service. Please accept this token for your discomfort. Aches and pains earned in honorable service. I know it was Honorable. The discharge paper said so.

Now my understanding is that a Chickenhawk is someone who would not go and put it on the line for their beliefs. It is interesting that you would call someone who has put it on the line that. Interesting, not insulting.

I went "under the knife" once at the VA Hospital. They didn't do the best job but they did it. My gripe is that the VA Hospital participated in "The Tuskegee Experiment" by injecting Black American Veterans with syphilis and then meticulously documented their suffering and death.

 

[Moonglow]

"Isolationism" is a term coined by the Wilsonian interventionist warmongers, to defame those who want Murica's military used to defend actual Murican soil.

Yes, they're really that scummy.

That Spanish-American war kinda of throws a wrench in yer logic.

 

[SavannahMann]

I went "under the knife" once at the VA Hospital. They didn't do the best job but they did it. My gripe is that the VA Hospital participated in "The Tuskegee Experiment" by injecting Black American Veterans with syphilis and then meticulously documented their suffering and death.

Agreed that was but one example of horrific experiments performed by our Government. The Sailors, Marines, and Soldiers exposed to radiation at the atomic bomb tests helped scientists write the book on long term radiation exposure.

America has done a lot of bad things too. You won’t ever hear me deny that. But that doesn’t excuse the behavior of the Soviets either.

 

[Oddball]

So, not helping Europe defend against nazi's, and their probable development of atomic bombs first, was the better decision?

"Helping" in WW1 set the stage for the Nazis, ignoramus.

 

[GLASNOST]

Soviet and Chinese advisors helped several Communist Dictatorships get started. Cambodia is well known of course, and let’s not forget the Soviet Advisors and combatants in Vietnam.

We knew this at the time as Radio Intercepts showed Russian Speaking pilots of superior skill flying over Vietnam.

Jan J. Safarik: Air Aces Home Page; Soviet Union - Vietnam War

aces.safarikovi.org

We also know and Russia admitted after the wall fell that Russian “Technicians” launched many SAM’s at American planes.

The knowledge that Soviet flagged ships unloaded munitions unmolested in Haiphong Harbor is common.

Russian pilots flew in Korea too.

So there was basis in fact for the Red Scare. The Venona Project decrypted a lot of the Soviet Communications and exposed the various Soviet Spies involved in our and allied Governments.

8 Spies Who Leaked Atomic Bomb Intelligence to the Soviets | HISTORY

These eight men and women (among others) shared atomic secrets that enabled the Soviet Union to successfully detonate its first nuclear weapon by 1949.

www.history.com

As one example the Rosenbergs were named in one intercepted communication.

All of this is of course documented history.

The KGB was extremely effective. The fact that many of their aircraft look a hell of a lot like ours is proof of that.

Let’s not forget the documented success of the Sparrows.

THIRD MARINE GUARD FROM U.S. EMBASSY IN MOSCOW ARRESTED (Published 1987)

www.nytimes.com

The existence of the Sparrow School is now common knowledge. Training prostitutes for State Service.

Sexpionage - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So there was a lot of foundation for the Red Scare. And this isn’t even a small percentage of the examples.

Now you're just packing a lot of links of smoke. I served in Vietnam 1966-67 and I never saw a single Russian (or Soviet) troop. And if there were some advisors in Hanoi .... so what? Where's the part about "Red Hoard"? Neither Russia nor China instigated the war with the US. The US illegally invaded Vietnam, thwarted Vietnam's Democratic elections, and openly made war with Vietnam. If you, in your simple-minded imagination, see that as a Russian or Chinese tactic then you are bonkers.

FACT #1: The US illegally invaded and occupied Vietnam - Russia didn't.
FACT #2: The US forced its will upon Vietnam - Russia didn't.
FACT #3: Duh.