When a deep red town’s only grocery closed, city hall opened its own store. Socialism?

[flack]

When a deep red town’s only grocery closed, city hall opened its own store. Socialism?

Not unless the city closed down the grocery store itself.

Socialism is when you replace free markets with government.

,,,and yet, in microcosm..is this not exactly what happened...a 'free market' was replaced by Govt. ownership. Could an outside store compete with the Govt store?

The so called "free market" killed the only store in town to leave the people too starve.

Socialism reopened it and fed people.

There is no free market. That is a lie created by rich conservatives to justify their laissez-faire economic policy that has created the mess we're living with now.

Wage gap that is so unbalanced that people who work for a living actually qualify for pubic assistance.

Which gives more of our tax dollars to the 1% while the rest of us fight for scraps.

If we honestly had a free market tariffs wouldn't exist. There would be no such thing as the "farm bill" that gives billions to farmers and we wouldn't have trump giving them tens of billions more. We wouldn't have huge tax give aways and out right subsidies to big business such as the oil companies and America wouldn't be a first world nation and the richest nation in the world. We would be more like Somalia.

If you ever took an economics class you would know that unregulated capitalism destroys itself. All you end up with is monopolies and a destroyed economy.

The founders of our nation knew this which is why they included the Commerce Clause in the constitution. It gives the government the power to properly regulate business.

The free market has raised more people up out of poverty than any other economic theory ever.If you have a net worth of $4500 you are in the top 50% of the wealthy in the word. If you have a net worth of $93,000 you are in the top 10% of the wealthy in the world. So if you own or are buying a house you are in the 10% you rail about.

We have not had free markets in decades. Why is it that farmers can't freely sell their produce to China?

Blame a democrat for that.

 

[Mac-7]

The real test of whether this instance is socialism will come IF somebody makes an offer to buy the store and run it. But it it were honestly and prices set to reflect insane minimum wage rates and allow a reasonable profit margin would anyone come in the door to buy? If the community would sell then it's capitalism. If refused? Socialism. If it's refused AND the offerer is denied permission to build a competitive store? Communism.

The test is time

Check back in 3 years and see how its going

But consider the source

The marxist loving lib news media can be trusted to not report bad news

 

[Papageorgio]

The town opening its own store after the last store closed is not socialism. Can another store open? If competition is prohibited it's socialism.

Well it is socialism. The town is interfering in the market. Its the right thing to do, its socialism in action.

It isn't socialism, I know you need it to be but it is not. They are not keeping competition out, they are simply filling a void that exists. If another store opens, then the city store would shut down. Nice try though.

The state has stepped in because capitalism has failed these people. Happens everywhere. Its socialism,its good.

Government is not controlling the production of goods and services, it is a distribution point. Also, the citizens of the community still have private property. Sorry but this does not fit the description, unless you want to flat out lie and distort what socialism actually means.

Socialism is a bad idea, it stops innovation, gives government all the power and ruins the creative entrepreneurial spirit. You wouldn't understand concepts of personal responsibility, innovation and creativity.

 

[Papageorgio]

When a deep red town’s only grocery closed, city hall opened its own store. Socialism?

Not unless the city closed down the grocery store itself.

Socialism is when you replace free markets with government.

,,,and yet, in microcosm..is this not exactly what happened...a 'free market' was replaced by Govt. ownership. Could an outside store compete with the Govt store?

The so called "free market" killed the only store in town to leave the people too starve.

Socialism reopened it and fed people.

There is no free market. That is a lie created by rich conservatives to justify their laissez-faire economic policy that has created the mess we're living with now.

Wage gap that is so unbalanced that people who work for a living actually qualify for pubic assistance.

Which gives more of our tax dollars to the 1% while the rest of us fight for scraps.

If we honestly had a free market tariffs wouldn't exist. There would be no such thing as the "farm bill" that gives billions to farmers and we wouldn't have trump giving them tens of billions more. We wouldn't have huge tax give aways and out right subsidies to big business such as the oil companies and America wouldn't be a first world nation and the richest nation in the world. We would be more like Somalia.

If you ever took an economics class you would know that unregulated capitalism destroys itself. All you end up with is monopolies and a destroyed economy.

The founders of our nation knew this which is why they included the Commerce Clause in the constitution. It gives the government the power to properly regulate business.

Who was left to starve? I have lived in areas where the closet store was 30 plus miles away. This is not socialism as production isn't handled by the government. The idea that socialism provides for internet, roads, electricity and clean water is absurd. Government regulates however they do not control these industries, they do not control all production.

 

[Meathead]

Interesting--a city-owned supermarket...designed to break even..for the good of its residents--but City run private enterprise..is NOT capitalism--It just struck me..that the 'socialism' word gets tossed around a lot..mostly by those who have little or no idea of what is actually means---this..is what it means, at the grass-roots:

When a deep red town’s only grocery closed, city hall opened its own store. Just don’t call it ‘socialism.’

"When Sean Lynch ran for mayor, he never anticipated that the job would involve hiring a butcher and tracking the sale of collard greens. Baldwin, Fla., is surrounded by farm country, and in late October, local green beans, tomatoes, peanuts, cabbage and milk filled the shelves of the Baldwin Market, which the town owns.

Notably, these experiments in communal ownership are taking place in deep-red parts of the country where the word “socialism” is anathema. “You expect to hear about this in a place like the People’s Republic of Massachusetts,” jokes Brian Lang, the director of the National Campaign for Healthy Food Access at The Food Trust.

But in many rural, conservative communities struggling to hang on to their remaining residents, ideological arguments about the role of government tend to be cast aside as grocery stores shutter due to population decline and competition from superstores.

“Fundamentally, what you have is people that have lived in these rural communities all their lives, and they want these rural communities to survive,” Procter said. “And they realize that without access to food, they’re not going to survive.”

By definition, a collectively owned, government-run enterprise like the Baldwin Market is inherently socialist. But Lynch, who has a nonpartisan position but governs a town where 68 percent of residents voted for Donald Trump in 2016, doesn’t see it that way. From his point of view, the town is just doing what it’s supposed to do: Providing services to residents who already pay enough in taxes.

. At the Baldwin Market, which opened its doors on Sept. 20, all of the employees are on the municipal payroll, from the butcher to the cashiers. Workers from the town’s maintenance department take breaks from cutting grass to help unload deliveries, and residents flag down the mayor when they want to request a specific type of milk.

“We're not trying to make a profit,” Lynch told The Washington Post in a recent interview. “We're trying to cover our expenses, and keep the store running. Any money that's made after that will go into the town in some way.”"

By the same reasoning, a traffic light is socialist.

 

[Papageorgio]

The town opening its own store after the last store closed is not socialism. Can another store open? If competition is prohibited it's socialism.

Well it is socialism. The town is interfering in the market. Its the right thing to do, its socialism in action.

It isn't socialism, I know you need it to be but it is not. They are not keeping competition out, they are simply filling a void that exists. If another store opens, then the city store would shut down. Nice try though.

The state has stepped in because capitalism has failed these people. Happens everywhere. Its socialism,its good.

Let's not get it twisted...the people helped themselves..in the form of the City Govt.--This worked precisely because it reflected the people's will. Socialism, on that scale, works.

Socialism in the larger sense--in its political form...often does NOT reflect the people's will--rather it reflects an idealistic model; enforced by regulations that punish the people..rather than reflecting their will.

Capitalism did not 'fail' those people..it gave them lemons...so they made some lemonade.

Well those people could have set up a co-operative to do this but didnt do so. They turned to the state for help, presumably because the state had the money to do this. We have these deals all over Wales and they are always set up and run by the people rather than the government. Either way is fine but they are both variants of socialism.

Where in the article did it say the state got involved? Where in the article does it say the residents turned to the state? Unless government controls the production, then it isn't socialism and claiming so isn't going to change that fact. You can keep applying the wrong definition, however just because you are wrong, doesn't change the definition.

 

[pknopp]

Not unless the city closed down the grocery store itself.

Socialism is when you replace free markets with government.

,,,and yet, in microcosm..is this not exactly what happened...a 'free market' was replaced by Govt. ownership. Could an outside store compete with the Govt store?

The so called "free market" killed the only store in town to leave the people too starve.

Socialism reopened it and fed people.

There is no free market. That is a lie created by rich conservatives to justify their laissez-faire economic policy that has created the mess we're living with now.

Wage gap that is so unbalanced that people who work for a living actually qualify for pubic assistance.

Which gives more of our tax dollars to the 1% while the rest of us fight for scraps.

If we honestly had a free market tariffs wouldn't exist. There would be no such thing as the "farm bill" that gives billions to farmers and we wouldn't have trump giving them tens of billions more. We wouldn't have huge tax give aways and out right subsidies to big business such as the oil companies and America wouldn't be a first world nation and the richest nation in the world. We would be more like Somalia.

If you ever took an economics class you would know that unregulated capitalism destroys itself. All you end up with is monopolies and a destroyed economy.

The founders of our nation knew this which is why they included the Commerce Clause in the constitution. It gives the government the power to properly regulate business.

The free market has raised more people up out of poverty than any other economic theory ever.If you have a net worth of $4500 you are in the top 50% of the wealthy in the word. If you have a net worth of $93,000 you are in the top 10% of the wealthy in the world. So if you own or are buying a house you are in the 10% you rail about.

We have not had free markets in decades. Why is it that farmers can't freely sell their produce to China?

Blame a democrat for that.

Not even a funny joke.

 

[pknopp]

The town opening its own store after the last store closed is not socialism. Can another store open? If competition is prohibited it's socialism.

Well it is socialism. The town is interfering in the market. Its the right thing to do, its socialism in action.

It isn't socialism, I know you need it to be but it is not. They are not keeping competition out, they are simply filling a void that exists. If another store opens, then the city store would shut down. Nice try though.

The state has stepped in because capitalism has failed these people. Happens everywhere. Its socialism,its good.

Government is not controlling the production of goods and services, it is a distribution point. Also, the citizens of the community still have private property. Sorry but this does not fit the description, unless you want to flat out lie and distort what socialism actually means.

Socialism is a bad idea, it stops innovation, gives government all the power and ruins the creative entrepreneurial spirit. You wouldn't understand concepts of personal responsibility, innovation and creativity.

In actual Socialism (which again, no one is arguing for) people still own private property.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The Federal Reserve gives the markets billions and that is not "socialism". Trump gives corporate farmers tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars but thats not "socialism".

Please, make up your mind. This is as close to what socialism as one would ever find. Socialism is the government owning the production. That is what is happening here. Socialism is NOT everyone getting something free. That is crony capitalism.

Please find out the difference between socialism and a collective. You seem really really confused.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

About $20 billion a year for farm subsidies. In a $3.5 trillion budget $20 billion isn't even a rounding error. The democrats created the Federal Reserve. Yell at them.

And democrats are responsible for income tax, don't forget.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The town opening its own store after the last store closed is not socialism. Can another store open? If competition is prohibited it's socialism.

Well it is socialism. The town is interfering in the market. Its the right thing to do, its socialism in action.

It isn't socialism, I know you need it to be but it is not. They are not keeping competition out, they are simply filling a void that exists. If another store opens, then the city store would shut down. Nice try though.

The state has stepped in because capitalism has failed these people. Happens everywhere. Its socialism,its good.

Government is not controlling the production of goods and services, it is a distribution point. Also, the citizens of the community still have private property. Sorry but this does not fit the description, unless you want to flat out lie and distort what socialism actually means.

Socialism is a bad idea, it stops innovation, gives government all the power and ruins the creative entrepreneurial spirit. You wouldn't understand concepts of personal responsibility, innovation and creativity.

You have a bizarre understanding of socialism. It isn't communism. I'm a socialist and own my own place and I also own shares in several companies. During the cold war, you could still buy pineapples in Moscow. Were those stores commie or capitalist ?
The state owns the shop which they have to because capitalism has failed this community. The state provides my healthcare because the capitalist system failed to do so. Likewise, education, policing, housing, sanitation, water. Socialism is a reaction to the failures of capitalism.It provides a safety net for people that capitalism leaves behind or has no use for.

 

[pknopp]

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The Federal Reserve gives the markets billions and that is not "socialism". Trump gives corporate farmers tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars but thats not "socialism".

Please, make up your mind. This is as close to what socialism as one would ever find. Socialism is the government owning the production. That is what is happening here. Socialism is NOT everyone getting something free. That is crony capitalism.

Please find out the difference between socialism and a collective. You seem really really confused.

No, I'm not.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

The state owns the shop which they have to because capitalism has failed this community. The state provides my healthcare because the capitalist system failed to do so. Likewise, education, policing, housing, sanitation, water. Socialism is a reaction to the failures of capitalism.It provides a safety net for people that capitalism leaves behind or has no use for.

None of these things exist through socialism. These are services that members of a community vote to support through their own voluntary taxation.

Stop throwing around terms you apparently are not familiar with. You ignorance is staggering and your willingness to display your ignorance is even worse. There is no virtue in taking pride in your stupidity.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

No, I'm not.

If you aren't confused then you are just plain ignorant.

 

[pknopp]

No, I'm not.

If you aren't confused then you are just plain ignorant.

I'm not the one who claimed there was no private property associated with Socialism. I'm not the one who claimed that bail outs were not give aways.

I'm not the one who claimed we have free trade.

 

[Papageorgio]

The town opening its own store after the last store closed is not socialism. Can another store open? If competition is prohibited it's socialism.

Well it is socialism. The town is interfering in the market. Its the right thing to do, its socialism in action.

It isn't socialism, I know you need it to be but it is not. They are not keeping competition out, they are simply filling a void that exists. If another store opens, then the city store would shut down. Nice try though.

The state has stepped in because capitalism has failed these people. Happens everywhere. Its socialism,its good.

Government is not controlling the production of goods and services, it is a distribution point. Also, the citizens of the community still have private property. Sorry but this does not fit the description, unless you want to flat out lie and distort what socialism actually means.

Socialism is a bad idea, it stops innovation, gives government all the power and ruins the creative entrepreneurial spirit. You wouldn't understand concepts of personal responsibility, innovation and creativity.

You have a bizarre understanding of socialism. It isn't communism. I'm a socialist and own my own place and I also own shares in several companies. During the cold war, you could still buy pineapples in Moscow. Were those stores commie or capitalist ?
The state owns the shop which they have to because capitalism has failed this community. The state provides my healthcare because the capitalist system failed to do so. Likewise, education, policing, housing, sanitation, water. Socialism is a reaction to the failures of capitalism.It provides a safety net for people that capitalism leaves behind or has no use for.

Definition of socialism
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


Public works is not socialism, public works is in every form of government and has been since the beginning. Try a different angle because so far you are failing. In a totally socialist society, production would be under the state.

So a store that shut down because the did not get the revenue is what capitalism is, it isn't a failure, it is a success. A local store could not succeed because the local people did not support it. Capitalism doesn't mean every business is successful, it means that you have an opportunity to risk and fail or succeed. As far as you owning stocks? If you were living in a real socialistic government, there would be none because government would own the business and production.

 

[Faun]

Not socialism. Nobody is given anything. People are paid for their work. A profit is made although as little as possible and what profit is made is reinvested in the town.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The Federal Reserve gives the markets billions and that is not "socialism". Trump gives corporate farmers tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars but thats not "socialism".

Please, make up your mind. This is as close to what socialism as one would ever find. Socialism is the government owning the production. That is what is happening here. Socialism is NOT everyone getting something free. That is crony capitalism.

LOL

This just goes to show that rightards don't even know what Socialism really is.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I'm not the one who claimed there was no private property associated with Socialism.

There can be.

I'm not the one who claimed that bail outs were not give aways.

They can be but not necessarily so.

I'm not the one who claimed we have free trade.

This is a rare thing. I wouldn't call it an impossibility though.
But in any case you are running a misdirection play. Stop it.

 

[pknopp]

I'm not the one who claimed there was no private property associated with Socialism.

There can be.

I'm not the one who claimed that bail outs were not give aways.

They can be but not necessarily so.

I'm not the one who claimed we have free trade.

This is a rare thing. I wouldn't call it an impossibility though.
But in any case you are running a misdirection play. Stop it.

I'm addressing the points others are making. If they aren't to be addressed, don't make them.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The very essence of socialism is to overthrow capitalism. Like nationalization. This is nothing more than filling in holes.
There is still other places in that town to get groceries. Your link states that.
Another grocery store could open up.
I get your point but its a major stretch.

What does "only grocery store" mean to you?

The town doesnt control the food market. Just that one place. The link says that.

You said there were other places to get groceries in town. What does "only grocery store" mean to you?

From the article.

"But in 2018, two years into his first term, the only grocery store in town shut down. People in Baldwin, Fla., a rural outpost in northeast Florida, were left with few options. They could leave town, driving 10 miles through road construction to nearby Macclenny, or battle 20 miles of freeway traffic through Jacksonville’s suburban sprawl. Alternatively, they could cobble together a meal out of canned goods from the local Dollar General, or head to a nearby truck stop for greasy, deep-fried fast food."

Ten miles to the grocery store ain't shit!!!
I've lived in two places that the grocery store was 15 miles or more away.