Whats More Anti-American?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Dude, I am not making any assertion. I am refferring to a double blind clinical trial that proved this after testing it on over 400 patients.

Unlike you, I wouldn't make a medical judgment because I dont have any credentials to do so.

Medical professionals conducted a study and found such. Not me. Also, prescription level Tylenol and aspirin, not over the counter, and in combination.

Once again, I do not see a responsible source and link with your allegations. You are also changing your original statement. Probably the reason you refuse to provide any support.

Why won't you provide your source?

Second time providing loser:

http://www.nsc.org/RxDrugOverdoseDo...er-pain-medications-than-opioids-with-IFP.pdf
A grim tally soars: More than 50K overdose deaths in US
Drug Deaths in America Are Rising Faster Than Ever

Basic pain pills are as effective as opioids, study finds

Don't take them. No one is forcing you or anyone to take any medication.

Now that we know the harmfulness, we aren't taking them in as high numbers anymore. But thats after tens of thousands have died.

But how many millions are suffering because of it?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Back then, the cig companies at least didn't shelter their profits overseas.

They don't "shelter" their profits overseas.

The money they earn overseas on their products, they keep in those countries.

You would do the same if you were in a decision making position. What sense does it make to bring the money into the United States for no other reason than paying the highest corporate taxes in the world?

"It is almost always the case that profits reported by American corporations to the IRS as earned in tax havens were actually earned in the United States or another country with a tax system similar to ours. Most economically developed countries (places where there are real business opportunities for American corporations) have a corporate income tax rate of at least 20 percent, and typically tax rates are higher."
Try again:https://itep.org/wp-content/uploads/pre0327.pdf

Go praise some corporation you anti American.

Yes, that's why multinational companies keep their production and profits overseas. Not only is labor cheaper but so are taxes.

Yeah we know why....they are Anti-American tax dodgers.

No, they are not producing in the US so they don't pay taxes in the US. Perfectly legal. Why should they produce product in Brazil and pay US taxes?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Dude, I am not making any assertion. I am refferring to a double blind clinical trial that proved this after testing it on over 400 patients.

Unlike you, I wouldn't make a medical judgment because I dont have any credentials to do so.

Medical professionals conducted a study and found such. Not me. Also, prescription level Tylenol and aspirin, not over the counter, and in combination.

Once again, I do not see a responsible source and link with your allegations. You are also changing your original statement. Probably the reason you refuse to provide any support.

Why won't you provide your source?

Second time providing loser:

http://www.nsc.org/RxDrugOverdoseDo...er-pain-medications-than-opioids-with-IFP.pdf
A grim tally soars: More than 50K overdose deaths in US
Drug Deaths in America Are Rising Faster Than Ever

Basic pain pills are as effective as opioids, study finds

Don't take them. No one is forcing you or anyone to take any medication.

Now that we know the harmfulness, we aren't taking them in as high numbers anymore. But thats after tens of thousands have died.

But how many millions are suffering because of it?

At some point, people are going to have to stop taking these pills, stop shooting up. They are going to have to stop being addicts. No one can stop being addicts for them. Addicts are a class of people who will not take responsibility for themselves. They will not take responsibility for their own addiction. When they say they need "help", what does that mean? To the non addict it might mean medical support, therapy. Two weeks in a counseling center. That's not help to the addict. They come out the other end just as addicted. Help to them means Make Me Stop Being An Addict. Make me stop wanting to get high. If I still get high, it's YOUR fault. It's BIG PHARMA'S fault. It's the doctor's fault. Fuck all, it's the television's fault that's where I saw the commercials.

I have no sympathy.

 

[Blake Allyn]

Dude, I am not making any assertion. I am refferring to a double blind clinical trial that proved this after testing it on over 400 patients.

Unlike you, I wouldn't make a medical judgment because I dont have any credentials to do so.

Medical professionals conducted a study and found such. Not me. Also, prescription level Tylenol and aspirin, not over the counter, and in combination.

Once again, I do not see a responsible source and link with your allegations. You are also changing your original statement. Probably the reason you refuse to provide any support.

Why won't you provide your source?

Second time providing loser:

http://www.nsc.org/RxDrugOverdoseDo...er-pain-medications-than-opioids-with-IFP.pdf
A grim tally soars: More than 50K overdose deaths in US
Drug Deaths in America Are Rising Faster Than Ever

Basic pain pills are as effective as opioids, study finds

An important part of your alternative pain killers post:

The study has limitations: It only looked at short-term pain relief in the emergency room and researchers didn't evaluate how patients managed their pain after leaving the hospital.

What your report said is they only tried this experiment on 411 people in the ER. Different things work on different people. My father had a surgery a few years ago and they gave him oxycontin. He said not only did they make him ill, but they didn't do anything for the pain. He threw them in the garbage. When my mother had her hip replacement, she was in so much pain nothing worked on her including opiate drugs. They gave her a button to push to activate the pump to administer the drug. She was in so much pain she hit the button over 400 times. Of course it didn't administer the drug that much, but they use the data to monitor patient comfort.

This isn't a report its a study. They chose er cases because they are immediate situations of massive pain. The study finds no statistical difference between the use of opioids and basic pain meds. Of course a single study has limitations. If Pharma hadn't hid the harm, how many lives would have been saved by just administering basic pain medication instead of opioids in those cases where it was unnecessary?

Nobody, and I mean nobody, who has done any basic research on this has not concluded the liablity of big pharma.

 

[Blake Allyn]

Once again, I do not see a responsible source and link with your allegations. You are also changing your original statement. Probably the reason you refuse to provide any support.

Why won't you provide your source?

Second time providing loser:

http://www.nsc.org/RxDrugOverdoseDo...er-pain-medications-than-opioids-with-IFP.pdf
A grim tally soars: More than 50K overdose deaths in US
Drug Deaths in America Are Rising Faster Than Ever

Basic pain pills are as effective as opioids, study finds

Don't take them. No one is forcing you or anyone to take any medication.

Now that we know the harmfulness, we aren't taking them in as high numbers anymore. But thats after tens of thousands have died.

But how many millions are suffering because of it?

At some point, people are going to have to stop taking these pills, stop shooting up. They are going to have to stop being addicts. No one can stop being addicts for them. Addicts are a class of people who will not take responsibility for themselves. They will not take responsibility for their own addiction. When they say they need "help", what does that mean? To the non addict it might mean medical support, therapy. Two weeks in a counseling center. That's not help to the addict. They come out the other end just as addicted. Help to them means Make Me Stop Being An Addict. Make me stop wanting to get high. If I still get high, it's YOUR fault. It's BIG PHARMA'S fault. It's the doctor's fault. Fuck all, it's the television's fault that's where I saw the commercials.

I have no sympathy.

That is true for all time addicts. Its not true for people who were not addicts, and became them, because they took a two day prescription from their doctor.

 

[Blake Allyn]

Back then, the cig companies at least didn't shelter their profits overseas.

They don't "shelter" their profits overseas.

The money they earn overseas on their products, they keep in those countries.

You would do the same if you were in a decision making position. What sense does it make to bring the money into the United States for no other reason than paying the highest corporate taxes in the world?

"It is almost always the case that profits reported by American corporations to the IRS as earned in tax havens were actually earned in the United States or another country with a tax system similar to ours. Most economically developed countries (places where there are real business opportunities for American corporations) have a corporate income tax rate of at least 20 percent, and typically tax rates are higher."
Try again:https://itep.org/wp-content/uploads/pre0327.pdf

Go praise some corporation you anti American.

Yes, that's why multinational companies keep their production and profits overseas. Not only is labor cheaper but so are taxes.

Yeah we know why....they are Anti-American tax dodgers.

No, they are not producing in the US so they don't pay taxes in the US. Perfectly legal. Why should they produce product in Brazil and pay US taxes?

Legal, you bet it is. However, if you follow the vast majority of their profits come from the US, and they use tax dodging efforts to avoid paying on them. It is legal cause people like them lobby for such laws.

Who fills the gaps? The middle class.

 

[Marion Morrison]

In terms of negative affects on America, clearly Big Pharma wins that one. In terms of deliberately disrespecting America, Veterans and Police the Kneelers win that one.

Big Pharma isn't inherently anti-American they are pro-profit and they are aided by their friends in Congress to keep pushing deadly Opioids. I also call BS on your assertion that Tylenol and Aspirin combined are as effective in treating pain as Opioids. No way.

In terms of negative affects on America, clearly Big Pharma wins that one. In terms of deliberately disrespecting America, Veterans and Police the Kneelers win that one.

Big Pharma isn't inherently anti-American they are pro-profit and they are aided by their friends in Congress to keep pushing deadly Opioids. I also call BS on your assertion that Tylenol and Aspirin combined are as effective in treating pain as Opioids. No way.

Dude, I am not making any assertion. I am refferring to a double blind clinical trial that proved this after testing it on over 400 patients.

Unlike you, I wouldn't make a medical judgment because I dont have any credentials to do so.

Medical professionals conducted a study and found such. Not me. Also, prescription level Tylenol and aspirin, not over the counter, and in combination.

Then I assume you have a link to that, correct?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So whats more anti-American? We have discovered that a combination of Tylenol and Aspirin is just as effective for treating pain as opoids.

Gotta stop you right there.

This is incredibly not true - and dangerous.

It's easier to die of a Tylenol overdose than it is to die of a opiate overdose.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Dude, I am not making any assertion. I am refferring to a double blind clinical trial that proved this after testing it on over 400 patients.

Unlike you, I wouldn't make a medical judgment because I dont have any credentials to do so.

Medical professionals conducted a study and found such. Not me. Also, prescription level Tylenol and aspirin, not over the counter, and in combination.

Once again, I do not see a responsible source and link with your allegations. You are also changing your original statement. Probably the reason you refuse to provide any support.

Why won't you provide your source?

Second time providing loser:

http://www.nsc.org/RxDrugOverdoseDo...er-pain-medications-than-opioids-with-IFP.pdf
A grim tally soars: More than 50K overdose deaths in US
Drug Deaths in America Are Rising Faster Than Ever

Basic pain pills are as effective as opioids, study finds

An important part of your alternative pain killers post:

The study has limitations: It only looked at short-term pain relief in the emergency room and researchers didn't evaluate how patients managed their pain after leaving the hospital.

What your report said is they only tried this experiment on 411 people in the ER. Different things work on different people. My father had a surgery a few years ago and they gave him oxycontin. He said not only did they make him ill, but they didn't do anything for the pain. He threw them in the garbage. When my mother had her hip replacement, she was in so much pain nothing worked on her including opiate drugs. They gave her a button to push to activate the pump to administer the drug. She was in so much pain she hit the button over 400 times. Of course it didn't administer the drug that much, but they use the data to monitor patient comfort.

This isn't a report its a study. They chose er cases because they are immediate situations of massive pain. The study finds no statistical difference between the use of opioids and basic pain meds. Of course a single study has limitations. If Pharma hadn't hid the harm, how many lives would have been saved by just administering basic pain medication instead of opioids in those cases where it was unnecessary?

Nobody, and I mean nobody, who has done any basic research on this has not concluded the liablity of big pharma.

These drugs have been around for decades. It wasn't until the past few years they actually became this big of a problem.

Several years ago I got into a serious car accident. The paramedics wanted to take me to the hospital but I originally refused. They warned me that I will experience pain unless I go because the adrenaline will eventually stop flowing. Sure as the sun rises in the morning, after about two hours in the ER, the pain started to kick in and got worse as time went by. That's when I took some of the pain killers they offered me when I first arrived.

Just from experience, I know that the body can fight pain temporary on it's own. But that doesn't last forever. So depending on how long those patients stayed in the hospital, it may very well be that their adrenaline was part of the reason for their comfort.

Drugs interact differently with people. I've taken several opioid medications and once the pain went away, threw the rest of them out. I've known several people that tried opioids once, and it took the rest of their life with them. Everybody is different and opioid products are not addictive to most people who have taken them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They don't "shelter" their profits overseas.

The money they earn overseas on their products, they keep in those countries.

You would do the same if you were in a decision making position. What sense does it make to bring the money into the United States for no other reason than paying the highest corporate taxes in the world?

"It is almost always the case that profits reported by American corporations to the IRS as earned in tax havens were actually earned in the United States or another country with a tax system similar to ours. Most economically developed countries (places where there are real business opportunities for American corporations) have a corporate income tax rate of at least 20 percent, and typically tax rates are higher."
Try again:https://itep.org/wp-content/uploads/pre0327.pdf

Go praise some corporation you anti American.

Yes, that's why multinational companies keep their production and profits overseas. Not only is labor cheaper but so are taxes.

Yeah we know why....they are Anti-American tax dodgers.

No, they are not producing in the US so they don't pay taxes in the US. Perfectly legal. Why should they produce product in Brazil and pay US taxes?

Legal, you bet it is. However, if you follow the vast majority of their profits come from the US, and they use tax dodging efforts to avoid paying on them. It is legal cause people like them lobby for such laws.

Who fills the gaps? The middle class.

If we made multinational companies pay taxes on products they don't make here, they would simply close down their US operations. Why should they pay taxes in both the country they produce in and a country they have subsidiaries in? What if they have operations in ten different countries? Should they pay taxes in all ten if they only produce a product in one of those countries?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

So whats more anti-American? We have discovered that a combination of Tylenol and Aspirin is just as effective for treating pain as opoids.

Gotta stop you right there.

This is incredibly not true - and dangerous.

It's easier to die of a Tylenol overdose than it is to die of a opiate overdose.

No one is talking about taking an entire bottle of Tylenol.

They have made a discovery that Aceteminophen and Ibuprophen affect different pain receptors. Taking them together is as effective as opiods in treating MOST pain. This is the most common pain treatment in most of Europe.

ONE study found an increase in internal bleeding with such a mixture. Use your discretion.

Acetaminophen and Ibuprofen Combination Risks

 

[Markle]

"It is almost always the case that profits reported by American corporations to the IRS as earned in tax havens were actually earned in the United States or another country with a tax system similar to ours. Most economically developed countries (places where there are real business opportunities for American corporations) have a corporate income tax rate of at least 20 percent, and typically tax rates are higher."
Try again:https://itep.org/wp-content/uploads/pre0327.pdf

Go praise some corporation you anti American.

Your biased source provides nothing to support their allegation that profits earned in the U.S. are then moved to countries with lower corporate taxes. As you know, profits earned in other countries are subject to that countries tax laws.

Who pays corporate taxes?

How is it anti-American to want to keep more of the money YOU EARNED?

Do you add an additional 20% to the income taxes you owe each year and send it to IRS? Why not? Are you anti-American?

STILL WAITING for your reliable source and link supporting your false allegation that a combination of Tylenol and aspirin is as effective in killing pain as an opioid painkiller.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So whats more anti-American? We have discovered that a combination of Tylenol and Aspirin is just as effective for treating pain as opoids.

Gotta stop you right there.

This is incredibly not true - and dangerous.

It's easier to die of a Tylenol overdose than it is to die of a opiate overdose.

No one is talking about taking an entire bottle of Tylenol.

They have made a discovery that Aceteminophen and Ibuprophen affect different pain receptors. Taking them together is as effective as opiods in treating MOST pain. This is the most common pain treatment in most of Europe.

ONE study found an increase in internal bleeding with such a mixture. Use your discretion.

Acetaminophen and Ibuprofen Combination Risks

What is "most" pain?

I've had toothaches that 800 mg of ibuprofen + 400 mg of acetaminophen did nothing for, but a 200/5 mg pill of Norco cleared right up.

 

[Blake Allyn]

So whats more anti-American? We have discovered that a combination of Tylenol and Aspirin is just as effective for treating pain as opoids.

Gotta stop you right there.

This is incredibly not true - and dangerous.

It's easier to die of a Tylenol overdose than it is to die of a opiate overdose.

Um....what the heck are you saying? 980 overdoes from basic pain compared to 500k opioids?? Most of the opioid related deaths are due to developing addiction and moving to heroin.

Please dont respond to my threads if you are going to be obtuse.

So let me stop you right there, and dont bother with me unless you would like to be serious.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Tylenol should be outlawed. It damages people's livers.

 

[Blake Allyn]

So whats more anti-American? We have discovered that a combination of Tylenol and Aspirin is just as effective for treating pain as opoids.

Gotta stop you right there.

This is incredibly not true - and dangerous.

It's easier to die of a Tylenol overdose than it is to die of a opiate overdose.

No one is talking about taking an entire bottle of Tylenol.

They have made a discovery that Aceteminophen and Ibuprophen affect different pain receptors. Taking them together is as effective as opiods in treating MOST pain. This is the most common pain treatment in most of Europe.

ONE study found an increase in internal bleeding with such a mixture. Use your discretion.

Acetaminophen and Ibuprofen Combination Risks

What is "most" pain?

I've had toothaches that 800 mg of ibuprofen + 400 mg of acetaminophen did nothing for, but a 200/5 mg pill of Norco cleared right up.

That is what we call an anecdote and is easily dismissed. Why? Well the placebo effect silly.

You are all also completely ignoring the deliberate hiding of the risk of addiction by big pharma. Deliberate to the point of spending hundreds of millions to hide it. Perhaps, there are cases where opioids are needed. I dont doubt it. But understanding the addictive risks would have mitigated the amount of unnecessary prescriptions and thus those who died. Mainly, soldiers.

 

[Markle]

So whats more anti-American? We have discovered that a combination of Tylenol and Aspirin is just as effective for treating pain as opoids.

Gotta stop you right there.

This is incredibly not true - and dangerous.

It's easier to die of a Tylenol overdose than it is to die of a opiate overdose.

No one is talking about taking an entire bottle of Tylenol.

They have made a discovery that Aceteminophen and Ibuprophen affect different pain receptors. Taking them together is as effective as opiods in treating MOST pain. This is the most common pain treatment in most of Europe.

ONE study found an increase in internal bleeding with such a mixture. Use your discretion.

Acetaminophen and Ibuprofen Combination Risks

Blake_Allyn's ALLEGATION is that the combination is as effective in killing pain as an opioid pain-killer.

I could find no such study and Blake_Allyn steadfastly refuses to provide the source or link.

All the results I found Doctorisin's post.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So whats more anti-American? We have discovered that a combination of Tylenol and Aspirin is just as effective for treating pain as opoids.

Gotta stop you right there.

This is incredibly not true - and dangerous.

It's easier to die of a Tylenol overdose than it is to die of a opiate overdose.

Um....what the heck are you saying? 980 overdoes from basic pain compared to 500k opioids?? Most of the opioid related deaths are due to developing addiction and moving to heroin.

Please dont respond to my threads if you are going to be obtuse.

So let me stop you right there, and dont bother with me unless you would like to be serious.

There are 100,000 acetaminphen overdoses per year in the US.

And the vast majority of opiate overdoses don't come from heroin, they come from prescription synthetic opiates like fentanyl.

 

[Blake Allyn]

Tylenol should be outlawed. It damages people's livers.

You know how you know that? Its right on the package. However, big pharma deliberately hid the addictive dangers of opioids. See the difference?

Also, Tylenol, if taking properly will not damage your liver. Opioids, if taken properly, still can cause you to be addicted and spiral to death.

Unbelievable, how quick people are to defend corporate power, just like their partisans masters have tricked them into doing for so long. Both parties I might add.

You are anti-American, and your patriotism lies to the corporate overlords.

 

[Dr Grump]

Read Dreamland. Great book on how this all got started - the opiod abuse and black tar heroin.

And yeah, nothing wrong with kneeling for the anthem. Patriotism is as close to fascism as you can get.