What's it gonna take for this to end, people?

[NightFox]

So, what good are more laws going to do?

They're going to get in the way of law abiding citizens, criminals by definition don't let laws inhibit whatever it is they wish to do. Passing laws doesn't fix the ROOT CAUSE it just makes everyone feel better about themselves.

If you wish to see this phenomenon in action, just take a gander at how well the anti-drug laws are working out.

"Laws are pieces of paper with opinions written on them" -- Stefan Molyneux

 

[TemplarKormac]

"Laws are pieces of paper with opinions written on them" -- Stefan Molyneux

BINGO, we have a winner!

 

[MisterBeale]

I am suspicious of folks from foreign nations that come and try to take my freedom away.

Come on. To think you could be less free to slaughter your fellow citizens today than you were yesterday. Perish the thought.

No one is free to commit murder you idiot

US citizens are more free to commit mass killings of their fellows than are citizens of countries where access to handguns and assault style rifles is severely restricted.

 

[Redfish]

the problem we have today is not guns, there have always been guns, the problem is not some made up category called "assault weapons", the problem is not a lack of laws.

the real problem is that we live in a sick culture. we have incentivized single parenthood, we have subsidized the murder of innocent babies, we have glorified murder in movies and music, we have destroyed the family unit, we have forgotten God, we have forgotten respect for our fellow human beings, we have become intolerant of other views and opinions, we have allowed our media to become a political propaganda machine.

We have allowed our culture to degrade into chaos.

I don't have a solution, but until we recognize the real problem, it will only get worse.

If the gun confiscators ever come into power, I predict a civil war where many will die.

 

[TemplarKormac]

They're going to get in the way of law abiding citizens, criminals by definition don't let laws inhibit whatever it is they wish to do. Passing laws doesn't fix the ROOT CAUSE it just makes everyone feel better about themselves.

Well stated. This is my standing opinion on the subject.

I will not be taking forays into both sides of an argument like this again. I will consider both sides. But I will not take both sides.

So here is the be all end all:

I do not support gun confiscation from law abiding gun owners, provided they pass a mental health check prior to purchasing their firearm(s). That mental health check should be the crux of all gun transactions in the US.

I do not support the passage of any more laws pertaining to guns and other gun type weapons. Enforce the ones we have. Laws are nothing but words on paper that can be selectively applied or ignored completely.

I know the stats. Our murder via firearm rate is not even in the top third of all the countries in the world. Like I said, 11,000 deaths by homicide or suicide via firearm only accounts for 0.0033% of all fatalities in the US.

In words, that is thirty three one thousandths of one percent. A very small freaking number.

These are my held opinions, and they will not change unless I am given sufficient evidence or compelling arguments to the contrary.

I will not be making any further comments. My head hurts from overthink.

 

[MisterBeale]

Well, shit.

At the risk of pissing off the moderation or admin. of this site, I called out cnm's motivations as a foreign agent, and the post disappeared.

I'll post that information one more time for the membership, maybe it got lost in my tabs and it was my fault?

Why does cnm care? Why do we have folks from common wealth nations with a globalist agenda, counter to our bill of rights? I see folks from Canada doing this crap all the time as well also. It really bothers me.

Five Eyes - Wikipedia

Western spy agencies build ‘cyber magicians’ to manipulate online discourse
Western spy agencies build ‘cyber magicians’ to manipulate online discourse

How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations
How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations

 

[toobfreak]

DISCLAIMER: This opinion in no way indicates my support or lack thereof of an assault weapons ban.

Now the opinion.

I feel that if you have an assault weapon, you should be able to keep it once a potential assault weapons ban goes into effect. However, if one were to take effect, you shouldn't be able buy any more. It seems like to me you are not being prevented from bearing the arms you purchased previously.

KEEP READING

On the other hand, the muskets and other long rifles used during the Revolutionary War were essentially what assault rifles are today: the top of the line weapons of their era. Presumably, the founders foresaw the use of even more advanced rifles for self defense by the citizenry, hence the Second Amendment.

So, two arguments. One question:

Is there a middle ground? What compromise can we reach to stop crazed mass shooters?

And no "enforce the laws we already have" wont work this time. The Odessa shooter exploited a loophole to get the weapon he murdered those people with.

Molon Abe? Please. Come and take them? Please. Stop trying to be the tough guy/gal you aren't.

Declare the NRA (and thus all 5.5 million of its members) as a domestic terror group like the city of San Francisco just did? Please. PLEASE. What the actual f**k man? Put your fake emotions away, you aren't convincing anyone.

Be reminded that if I have an opinion of my own on this subject, I will share it. Do not apply opinions to me. If you do, you will be ignored, immediately. Thank you, kindly.

Okay, let the cage match begin.

How about this------

• Let responsible people buy whatever the hell they want with their money and keep your nose out of it. There are no assault weapons on the streets and AR-15s aren't used in 1% of the gun crimes. And those that have stamps to buy the full auto stuff all keep and use them responsibly. Quit punishing the 99.99% for the infractions of the 0.01%
  
• Focus on the real issues driving societal mental health and the real force behind crime and violence: overcrowding, lack of jobs, low pay, high taxes, progressivist policies, divisive politicians, shabby public schools and lack of economic opportunity.

 

[Blues Man]

I am suspicious of folks from foreign nations that come and try to take my freedom away.

Come on. To think you could be less free to slaughter your fellow citizens today than you were yesterday. Perish the thought.

No one is free to commit murder you idiot

US citizens are more free to commit mass killings of their fellows than are citizens of countries where access to handguns and assault style rifles is severely restricted.

No one is free to commit murder, you idiot

 

[Blues Man]

less than 1% of all murders occur in mass shootings.

It's not that big of a problem, it just gets all the media coverage

Yes, as I said, I understand you don't mind the mass killing of other people as long as you have easy access to handguns and assault style rifles.

I'm sure you mourn for every person who gets murdered in the world.

 

[Blues Man]

And what do you care what an American thinks ?

Your toxic culture gets spread over the net and we pay the price.

So you're saying that you can't think for yourself and that's my fault?

 

[NightFox]

I do not support gun confiscation from law abiding gun owners, provided they passed a mental health check prior to purchasing their firearms. That mental health check should be the crux of all gun transactions in the US.
.

Well put .. However personally I don't think a "mental health check" as part of a gun transaction will make one bit of difference to the situation of "mass shootings" primarily due to the facts that:

a. Guns are fairly easy to obtain outside of the legal channels (illegal gun sales/importation, illegal production (make your own) or theft).
b. It only takes a VERY small percentage of nut cases that are looking to carry out mass shootings getting a gun illegally to keep the current rate of mass shootings going and if a mentally deranged person is willing to carry out a mass shooting they're not going to bat an eye at obtaining their weapons of choice illegally.

IMHO You can add all the "mental health checks" you want to the legal gun buying process and all it will accomplish is inconveniencing law abiding, mentally healthy citizens. It's akin to requiring a legal prescription for buying opiods, how's that working out?

 

[NightFox]

No one is free to commit murder

......except for government where murder has been turned into a booming, growth industry.

 

[OKTexas]

OKTexas Like I said, there seems to be no clear cut solution to this problem. Even with preferred elected officials in our government we still cannot get the solutions we want to pass, nor are there any willing to enforce existing law.

So, what are we left with? An impasse that nobody is willing to breach.

I'm comfortable with the law we have, enforcement is the key. Unfortunately the trend now days seems to be softening punishment instead of holding criminals responsible.

we still cannot get the solutions we want to pass

First don't include me in that ubiquitous "we", but what would you like to see passed, be specific.

.

Forgive me, I have transgressed on your sensibilities.

What I want passed are laws pertaining to mental health (see post #2). If there are loopholes that exist in our gun laws, close them. But alas, that will be met with resistance too. Essentially, our government is powerless to do anything. Either for lack of want for enforcing existing law, or for amending them to account for mental illness.

Is it wrong of me to want this all done without infringing on the constitutional rights of others? Or am I being naive?

It's already illegal for people with a history of mental illness to buy a gun, if those folks aren't reported to NICS, that's not the problem of law abiding citizens. Also the only loophole in the system is in the minds of commies that wish to disarm the American people. No more compromise, period.

.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

whats it going to take to end the ban that stops me from buying brand spanking new fully automatic military style weaponry ?

STOP OPPRESSING ME!
I demand my civil rights!

 

[OKTexas]

Is it wrong of me to want this all done without infringing on the constitutional rights of others?

Regulating firearm ownership is constitutional. Even Scalia said the right to bear arms is not unfettered.

Scalia also set a "in common use" standard the commies want to ignore.

.

 

[bendog]

First, I suggest strengthening laws involving people diagnosed with DSM-IV disorders which include anger management. People like me. I am noticing a trend in which the shooter was triggered by a negative life event or by reckless political rhetoric. Political rhetoric can spark uncontrollable anger in some, leading to what happened in El Paso.

In Odessa, the killer was fired from his job just hours before his rampage.

Do you not see the correlation? An inability to control negative thoughts and emotions. Mental illness.

My solution isn't perfect, I know. But we need to start somewhere. Start with mental health.

Thanks for the thread. I'm not sure realistically what can be done on mental health. Statistically those treated for MI are among those groups least likely to be violent, at least to others. So, at least under the equal protection standards we've had since the Japanese Internment national embarrassment, those people should not be targets (-; for being singled out.

We possibly could say anyone treated for a mental health disorder in the past 6 mos or so, but the gop is not passing background checks

Even on this forum, we've seen people saying it was "unconst" to have red flag laws taking away weapons from a person with a history of bipolar disorder, who stood outside his local mayor's house, wearing armor and threating violence. So, I understand your comment about the guy in Odessa, but the Second Amendment Absolutists will never accept any restraint place on a person "likely" to commit a crime, no matter how "gentle" that restraint is.

We can spend more money for mental health professionals in schools. I'm not sure how much good it would do. I worked in public schools in the late 70s, and I remember a school with only one entrance, a metal detector and an armed police officer. It was freaking grade school, btw

That kind of solution does not require Washington. It's done at the local or state level. And I think that's the only place any change can come. I am amused by the current spat between AOC and Crenshaw. Crenshaw says how dare you suggest a natl background check that would prevent me from "loaning" my gun to someone. Well, if you loan your car to a person you know is likely to drive drunk, your insurance may go to state/local court to deny you coverage and let you personally be liable for a lawsuit.

And imo that's about the best we can hope for in terms of society is maybe some federal money to schools, local school districts with red flag laws, and states applying laws of normal personal responsibility required from typically reasonable people to selling and loaning guns and ammo.

 

[bendog]

In the history of our nation we have banned ...

Alcohol, recreational drugs, books with naughty words, and unpasteurized cheeses.

Did those bans make any of those things go away?

We put more than a dent in drunk driving.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

DISCLAIMER: This opinion in no way indicates my support or lack thereof of an assault weapons ban.

Now the opinion.

I feel that if you have an assault weapon, you should be able to keep it once a potential assault weapons ban goes into effect. However, if one were to take effect, you shouldn't be able buy any more. It seems like to me you are not being prevented from bearing the arms you purchased previously.

KEEP READING

On the other hand, the muskets and other long rifles used during the Revolutionary War were essentially what assault rifles are today: the top of the line weapons of their era. Presumably, the founders foresaw the use of even more advanced rifles for self defense by the citizenry, hence the Second Amendment.

So, two arguments. One question:

Is there a middle ground? What compromise can we reach to stop crazed mass shooters?

And no "enforce the laws we already have" wont work this time. The Odessa shooter exploited a loophole to get the weapon he murdered those people with.

Molon Abe? Please. Come and take them? Please. Stop trying to be the tough guy/gal you aren't.

Declare the NRA (and thus all 5.5 million of its members) as a domestic terror group like the city of San Francisco just did? Please. PLEASE. What the actual f**k man? Put your fake emotions away, you aren't convincing anyone.

Be reminded that if I have an opinion of my own on this subject, I will share it. Do not apply opinions to me. If you do, you will be ignored, immediately. Thank you, kindly.

Okay, let the cage match begin.

Umm.... no.

 

[NightFox]

In the history of our nation we have banned ...

Alcohol, recreational drugs, books with naughty words, and unpasteurized cheeses.

Did those bans make any of those things go away?

We put more than a dent in drunk driving.

Yeah, thanks to a sustained, multi-pronged and well designed PUBLIC AWARENESS CAMPAIGN (thanks MADD!) not much to do with laws since they were already on the books long before the public awareness campaign started.

 

[bendog]

In the history of our nation we have banned ...

Alcohol, recreational drugs, books with naughty words, and unpasteurized cheeses.

Did those bans make any of those things go away?

We put more than a dent in drunk driving.

Yeah, thanks to a sustained, multi-pronged and well designed PUBLIC AWARENESS CAMPAIGN (thanks MADD!) not much to do with laws since they were already on the books long before the public awareness campaign started.

Not exactly. Before Madd, people who injured others by driving drunk often got passes. Now you go to jail.