Whats going to happen when America can't borrow anymore money?

Ok so we're 18 trillion dollars in debt most of which is owed to china. So with the situation in Greece whats going to happen when we can't pay back that debt? I know we are a much bigger country and have a higher GDP but we spend and owe so much money that not even the billions of dollars the government collects in tax is enough , so we end up borrowing more and printing more money which is decreasing the value of the dollar if I'm not wrong. So my question is whats going to happen when we cant borrow anymore money, is the economy going to tank?

ps
What i meant about china is that out of all the countries we owe them the most most money I know that most of our debt is owed to ourselves and how come they say that the coming economic collapse is gonna be 10x worse than the great depression

From 1945-1973 we had a high wage economy which gave working families a lager percentage of the profits that were made off their backs. In short, working Americans were given skin in the game; they participated more fully in economic growth (rather than seeing their wages and benefits driven down by having to compete with Chinese labor markets). And to bolster upward mobility, the government poured money into public universities so that middle class families could send their children to school without assuming paralyzing debt. During this period American built the most robust consumption economy in world history, supported by the most solvent middle class the world has ever seen.

Point is: when middle class families have more disposable income with which to consume, the capitalist has a greater incentive to expand production, which includes the addition of more workers, who themselves increase aggregate demand on main street, which thrives when Americans can afford to buy their goods and services. It's called a virtuous cycle.

But then, in 1973, postwar Keynesianism broke down. We experienced inflation and unemployment (stagflation). The virtuous cycle stopped working. Our global competitors (Japan and Germany) re-industrialized, which meant they were taking an increasing share of the manufacturing profits which were so crucial to our postwar economic growth.

As a result of stagflation and the slow down in profits, Reaganomics gained traction. Movement Conservatism convinced the country that our suppliers needed lower taxes, lower labor costs and fewer regulations to spur investment and return to the pattern of economic growth that so abruptly broke down in 1973. In short, we were told that workers had to make less money so that suppliers could rebuild profit margins. And this is exactly what happened: trade was liberalized so that our large corporations could shift production to communist China, which allowed them drive down labor costs and restore profits.

As jobs were sent to ultra cheap labor markets, the American worker suffered through lost wages and disappearing benefits. Consequently, hard working American families had to borrow more and more money just to stay a float (i.e., they had to replace the lost wages, lost jobs and disappearing benefits).

Put another way: Americans went into crippling debt to make up for the money that never trickled down.
 
Ok so we're 18 trillion dollars in debt most of which is owed to china. So with the situation in Greece whats going to happen when we can't pay back that debt? I know we are a much bigger country and have a higher GDP but we spend and owe so much money that not even the billions of dollars the government collects in tax is enough , so we end up borrowing more and printing more money which is decreasing the value of the dollar if I'm not wrong. So my question is whats going to happen when we cant borrow anymore money, is the economy going to tank?

ps
What i meant about china is that out of all the countries we owe them the most most money I know that most of our debt is owed to ourselves and how come they say that the coming economic collapse is gonna be 10x worse than the great depression

Sorry man, you are wrong. The US Government owes most of it's debt to major US corporations. Only 34% is owed to Foreign Investors.

You ARE correct that China holds the majority of our Foreign Investor debt.

It's funny to watch Obama try to get the people we owe the money to, pay more taxes and watch the poor people around us fight for more debt and poverty.

IE "Corporations are people! I heard that on my news channel" LOL. NO GROUP IN HISTORY has ever been allowed to force voting habbits and got away with it. Corporations are not all one party, they are a GROUP of individuals, just like Unions.
 
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Ok so we're 18 trillion dollars in debt most of which is owed to china. So with the situation in Greece whats going to happen when we can't pay back that debt? I know we are a much bigger country and have a higher GDP but we spend and owe so much money that not even the billions of dollars the government collects in tax is enough , so we end up borrowing more and printing more money which is decreasing the value of the dollar if I'm not wrong. So my question is whats going to happen when we cant borrow anymore money, is the economy going to tank?

ps
What i meant about china is that out of all the countries we owe them the most most money I know that most of our debt is owed to ourselves and how come they say that the coming economic collapse is gonna be 10x worse than the great depression

First of all, only about $1.2 trillion is actually owed to China. While they are the largest foreign holder of our debt, most of our debt is actually owned back to the federal government to pay for treasuries that have been purchased over the years.
 
Ok so we're 18 trillion dollars in debt most of which is owed to china. So with the situation in Greece whats going to happen when we can't pay back that debt? I know we are a much bigger country and have a higher GDP but we spend and owe so much money that not even the billions of dollars the government collects in tax is enough , so we end up borrowing more and printing more money which is decreasing the value of the dollar if I'm not wrong. So my question is whats going to happen when we cant borrow anymore money, is the economy going to tank?

first, there's never going to be a point where we can't borrow money.

Second, there's a simple enough solution to the debt problem. Make the rich pay their fair share.

Third, Greece has a problem because unlike us, they can't print their own money.
 
the 35% or so {aka, the "Stupid Voters"} just assume we will just keep printing money forever. the same 35% who voted for Obama cause they thought he gave a good speech.
 
Ok so we're 18 trillion dollars in debt most of which is owed to china. So with the situation in Greece whats going to happen when we can't pay back that debt? I know we are a much bigger country and have a higher GDP but we spend and owe so much money that not even the billions of dollars the government collects in tax is enough , so we end up borrowing more and printing more money which is decreasing the value of the dollar if I'm not wrong. So my question is whats going to happen when we cant borrow anymore money, is the economy going to tank?

ps
What i meant about china is that out of all the countries we owe them the most most money I know that most of our debt is owed to ourselves and how come they say that the coming economic collapse is gonna be 10x worse than the great depression

I hate these types of posts... For starters the US Government owes most of its debt to the American People.

China holds 7.2% of US National Debt, Japan holds 7.0%(not seen many screaming about Japan)...

US is still considered one of safest places in the world to hold your money.

Who Owns The Most U.S. Debt - Forbes

The US is on the very far side of where Greece is... Greece has been a basket case for decades...
 
the 35% or so {aka, the "Stupid Voters"} just assume we will just keep printing money forever. the same 35% who voted for Obama cause they thought he gave a good speech.

Printing money has an advantage. It makes importing stuff more expensive, which encourages making things domestically.

The point is, Greece is in so much trouble because it can't control the value of its currency. The US can.
 
So my question is whats going to happen when we cant borrow anymore money

hummmmm.., live within our means as do millions of individual Americans ? :up:

As Democratic Presidents have been more successful at doing for years... You have to go back to 1920s to find a Republican President who brought down the deficit...

Truth is GOP talks a good game but they are all hat and no cattle in reality...
 
Ok so we're 18 trillion dollars in debt most of which is owed to china. So with the situation in Greece whats going to happen when we can't pay back that debt? I know we are a much bigger country and have a higher GDP but we spend and owe so much money that not even the billions of dollars the government collects in tax is enough , so we end up borrowing more and printing more money which is decreasing the value of the dollar if I'm not wrong. So my question is whats going to happen when we cant borrow anymore money, is the economy going to tank?

ps
What i meant about china is that out of all the countries we owe them the most most money I know that most of our debt is owed to ourselves and how come they say that the coming economic collapse is gonna be 10x worse than the great depression
China has a debt ratio of 21% to privately held US debt.....
 
The myth is we are borrowing all that money. We aren't borrowing as much as we're just writing ourselves IOU's and printing what we just borrowed from ourselves. The only thing that keeps us afloat is being thee worlds trading currency. If that stops we're fucked.
Like most great powers, it doesn't end with a bang, just a whimper.....
 
Ok so we're 18 trillion dollars in debt most of which is owed to china. So with the situation in Greece whats going to happen when we can't pay back that debt? I know we are a much bigger country and have a higher GDP but we spend and owe so much money that not even the billions of dollars the government collects in tax is enough , so we end up borrowing more and printing more money which is decreasing the value of the dollar if I'm not wrong. So my question is whats going to happen when we cant borrow anymore money, is the economy going to tank?

ps
What i meant about china is that out of all the countries we owe them the most most money I know that most of our debt is owed to ourselves and how come they say that the coming economic collapse is gonna be 10x worse than the great depression

From 1945-1973 we had a high wage economy which gave working families a lager percentage of the profits that were made off their backs. In short, working Americans were given skin in the game; they participated more fully in economic growth (rather than seeing their wages and benefits driven down by having to compete with Chinese labor markets). And to bolster upward mobility, the government poured money into public universities so that middle class families could send their children to school without assuming paralyzing debt. During this period American built the most robust consumption economy in world history, supported by the most solvent middle class the world has ever seen.

Point is: when middle class families have more disposable income with which to consume, the capitalist has a greater incentive to expand production, which includes the addition of more workers, who themselves increase aggregate demand on main street, which thrives when Americans can afford to buy their goods and services. It's called a virtuous cycle.

But then, in 1973, postwar Keynesianism broke down. We experienced inflation and unemployment (stagflation). The virtuous cycle stopped working. Our global competitors (Japan and Germany) re-industrialized, which meant they were taking an increasing share of the manufacturing profits which were so crucial to our postwar economic growth.

As a result of stagflation and the slow down in profits, Reaganomics gained traction. Movement Conservatism convinced the country that our suppliers needed lower taxes, lower labor costs and fewer regulations to spur investment and return to the pattern of economic growth that so abruptly broke down in 1973. In short, we were told that workers had to make less money so that suppliers could rebuild profit margins. And this is exactly what happened: trade was liberalized so that our large corporations could shift production to communist China, which allowed them drive down labor costs and restore profits.

As jobs were sent to ultra cheap labor markets, the American worker suffered through lost wages and disappearing benefits. Consequently, hard working American families had to borrow more and more money just to stay a float (i.e., they had to replace the lost wages, lost jobs and disappearing benefits).

Put another way: Americans went into crippling debt to make up for the money that never trickled down.

None of that has anything to do with government spending.
 
Ok so we're 18 trillion dollars in debt most of which is owed to china. So with the situation in Greece whats going to happen when we can't pay back that debt? I know we are a much bigger country and have a higher GDP but we spend and owe so much money that not even the billions of dollars the government collects in tax is enough , so we end up borrowing more and printing more money which is decreasing the value of the dollar if I'm not wrong. So my question is whats going to happen when we cant borrow anymore money, is the economy going to tank?

first, there's never going to be a point where we can't borrow money.

Second, there's a simple enough solution to the debt problem. Make the rich pay their fair share.

Third, Greece has a problem because unlike us, they can't print their own money.

Agree with all those points... US probably could pay back some in the good times and borrow in the bad times... Obama got handed the worst of times, his options were stop borrowing and drive US in to a depression or Borrow and support a very fragile economy(like his predecessor did). Obama had no real choice, he had to stimulate the economy the same way Regan did.

I think the RWs here haven't understood that trickle down economics is a scam. It doesn't make even common sense. The poor spend quicker than Rich and thus drive the money through the economy quicker and thus increases the money multiplier.

Greece the basket case. Greece was allowed to join the Euro by staying inside certain gates. They lied, not many first world countries lie about their economic standing but Greece did. If Greece told the truth they would have been left out of the Euro and their currency would have naturally devalued through printing and fall in GDP.
Greece has been hopeless at fixing their internal corruption problems and their severely bloated public service. The other thing is the other countries in Euro are insisting on fair treatment (Portugal, Ireland, Spain.... ). Germany & France can't stomach bailing everyone out even though it was there banks that did a big chunk of the lending. Germany and France insist on the those Countries guaranteeing those loans thus shoring up their banks bad debts. So the Irish Government guaranteed our banks (pretty unwillingly) and even guaranteed the higher risk junior bondholders.
 
As Democratic Presidents have been more successful at doing for years... You have to go back to 1920s to find a Republican President who brought down the deficit...

He didn't just bring down the deficit, he retired a quarter of the debt. We should adopt his approach.
 
Ok so we're 18 trillion dollars in debt most of which is owed to china. So with the situation in Greece whats going to happen when we can't pay back that debt? I know we are a much bigger country and have a higher GDP but we spend and owe so much money that not even the billions of dollars the government collects in tax is enough , so we end up borrowing more and printing more money which is decreasing the value of the dollar if I'm not wrong. So my question is whats going to happen when we cant borrow anymore money, is the economy going to tank?

first, there's never going to be a point where we can't borrow money.

Second, there's a simple enough solution to the debt problem. Make the rich pay their fair share.

Third, Greece has a problem because unlike us, they can't print their own money.

Agree with all those points... US probably could pay back some in the good times and borrow in the bad times... Obama got handed the worst of times, his options were stop borrowing and drive US in to a depression or Borrow and support a very fragile economy(like his predecessor did). Obama had no real choice, he had to stimulate the economy the same way Regan did.

I think the RWs here haven't understood that trickle down economics is a scam. It doesn't make even common sense. The poor spend quicker than Rich and thus drive the money through the economy quicker and thus increases the money multiplier.

Greece the basket case. Greece was allowed to join the Euro by staying inside certain gates. They lied, not many first world countries lie about their economic standing but Greece did. If Greece told the truth they would have been left out of the Euro and their currency would have naturally devalued through printing and fall in GDP.
Greece has been hopeless at fixing their internal corruption problems and their severely bloated public service. The other thing is the other countries in Euro are insisting on fair treatment (Portugal, Ireland, Spain.... ). Germany & France can't stomach bailing everyone out even though it was there banks that did a big chunk of the lending. Germany and France insist on the those Countries guaranteeing those loans thus shoring up their banks bad debts. So the Irish Government guaranteed our banks (pretty unwillingly) and even guaranteed the higher risk junior bondholders.

I think the RWs here haven't understood that trickle down economics is a scam. It doesn't make even common sense.

Absolutely, that's why median family incomes grew under Reagan and shrank under Obama.

The poor spend quicker than Rich and thus drive the money through the economy quicker and thus increases the money multiplier.

Absolutely, that's why Obama's recovery has been the weakest since ever.
Because his Keynesian spending works. Unemployment payments are the best stimulus.
Ya fuckin' idjit!
 
Our debt has been paid off only once in our history, and that by Democrats. Republicans talk about it, promise it, but it remains nothing but talk. As long as people believe Republicans want to pay off the debt that's all that matters. Some might even believe Reagan paid off the debt and ran a balanced budget, and not know of Reagan's tripling the debt.
 
I am pretty sure that 18 Trillion singles would stretch out way way beyond Pluto.

Let's due the math....

length of dollar bill = 6.14 inches
inches in mile = 63360
dollar bills per mile = 10319.22

distance from earth to pluto = 7.5x10^6 miles
dollar bills between earth and pluto = 7.739415x10^13 = 77.39 trillion
 
The myth is we are borrowing all that money. We aren't borrowing as much as we're just writing ourselves IOU's and printing what we just borrowed from ourselves. The only thing that keeps us afloat is being thee worlds trading currency. If that stops we're fucked.
Like most great powers, it doesn't end with a bang, just a whimper.....

great powers...
oh mamma mia
 

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