What?

[neo_68710]

"The CIA laid out several scenarios. It said that life could be lousy, life could be OK, life could be better. And they were just guessing as to what the conditions might be like," Bush told reporters during a picture-taking session with Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi. The classified document, known as a National Intelligence Estimate, predicted three possible scenarios ranging from a tenuous stability to political fragmentation and civil war.

The CIA says Iraq has weapons of mass destruction so we have to go to war right away. Thousands dead and Billions lost with no end in sight. The CIA says things are getting worse, which they are a lot worse, and now the President dismisses it as a guess. Is he in some kind of denial or something. I hear stay the course a lot but I know if you dig a hole you can't get out of you don't keep digging down you change your course and start digging up before you are completely buried.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Things just keep getting better and better.

You know its funny that Rather gets hung for using bad "intelligence", but Bush can lead a country to war on even worse intelligence and people(Republcians) just dismiss it as a simple mistake.

 

[dmp]

Things just keep getting better and better.

You know its funny that Rather gets hung for using bad "intelligence", but Bush can lead a country to war on even worse intelligence and people(Republcians) just dismiss it as a simple mistake.

why do you hate people?

 

[insein]

Things just keep getting better and better.

You know its funny that Rather gets hung for using bad "intelligence", but Bush can lead a country to war on even worse intelligence and people(Republcians) just dismiss it as a simple mistake.

Rather didnt get hung for "Bad intelligence". He got hung for "Forged documents." Bad intelligence implies that the methods to gather the information were incomplete and need to be revised so that the whole picture can be displayed. Forged documents imply that the whole thing was made up to begin with.

for·ger·y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fôrj-r, fr-)
n. pl. for·ger·ies
The act of forging, especially the illegal production of something counterfeit.
Something counterfeit, forged, or fraudulent.

Main Entry: forg·ery
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -er·ies
1 : the act of falsely making, altering, or imitating (as a document or signature) with intent to defraud; also : the crime of committing such an act
2 : something that is forged

You tell me the difference, PJ?

 

[Merlin1047]

"The CIA laid out several scenarios. It said that life could be lousy, life could be OK, life could be better. And they were just guessing as to what the conditions might be like," Bush told reporters during a picture-taking session with Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi. The classified document, known as a National Intelligence Estimate, predicted three possible scenarios ranging from a tenuous stability to political fragmentation and civil war.

The CIA says Iraq has weapons of mass destruction so we have to go to war right away. Thousands dead and Billions lost with no end in sight. The CIA says things are getting worse, which they are a lot worse, and now the President dismisses it as a guess. Is he in some kind of denial or something. I hear stay the course a lot but I know if you dig a hole you can't get out of you don't keep digging down you change your course and start digging up before you are completely buried.

Sounds to me like you are saying that the CIA intelligence used prior to the war was faulty and should not have been relied upon.

But now we should take everything the CIA says as gospel.

Could it be that you judge the veracity of intelligence based on whether or not the alleged information suits your agenda?

 

[nakedemperor]

Rather didnt get hung for "Bad intelligence". He got hung for "Forged documents." Bad intelligence implies that the methods to gather the information were incomplete and need to be revised so that the whole picture can be displayed. Forged documents imply that the whole thing was made up to begin with.



You tell me the difference, PJ?

Forged documents also played a part in the intelligence gathering process prior to invasion of Iraq, e.g the forged uranium documents in the yellowcake dossier.

 

[nakedemperor]

"The CIA laid out several scenarios. It said that life could be lousy, life could be OK, life could be better. And they were just guessing as to what the conditions might be like," Bush told reporters during a picture-taking session with Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi. The classified document, known as a National Intelligence Estimate, predicted three possible scenarios ranging from a tenuous stability to political fragmentation and civil war.

The CIA says Iraq has weapons of mass destruction so we have to go to war right away. Thousands dead and Billions lost with no end in sight. The CIA says things are getting worse, which they are a lot worse, and now the President dismisses it as a guess. Is he in some kind of denial or something. I hear stay the course a lot but I know if you dig a hole you can't get out of you don't keep digging down you change your course and start digging up before you are completely buried.

Sorry Neo-- this was a well spoken sentiment, but everyone's gonna jump on Palestinian Jew's sub-comment rather than direct much attention to your post unless you follow-up, I think.

 

[dilloduck]

Forged documents also played a part in the intelligence gathering process prior to invasion of Iraq, e.g the forged uranium documents in the yellowcake dossier.

Oh really? --how much of a part?

 

[nakedemperor]

Sounds to me like you are saying that the CIA intelligence used prior to the war was faulty and should not have been relied upon.

But now we should take everything the CIA says as gospel.

Could it be that you judge the veracity of intelligence based on whether or not the alleged information suits your agenda?

Merlin, I think he's pointing out the inconsistancy in the reliance of CIA intelligence based on what appears to be whether or not the information suits the agenda of the Bush administation. Why doesn't Bush believe the CIA *now*.

Neo, Merlin also makes a good point, why DO you believe the CIA *now*?

 

[dmp]

Merlin, I think he's pointing out the inconsistancy in the reliance of CIA intelligence based on what appears to be whether or not the information suits the agenda of the Bush administation. Why doesn't Bush believe the CIA *now*.

Neo, Merlin also makes a good point, why DO you believe the CIA *now*?

Why are we picking on the CIA - when the CIA was not then, nor is now the end-all in the intelligence community. There are perhaps a dozen respected Intel agencies, across the world, which agreed w/ the CIA apprasial of the situation.

 

[dilloduck]

"The CIA laid out several scenarios. It said that life could be lousy, life could be OK, life could be better. And they were just guessing as to what the conditions might be like," Bush told reporters during a picture-taking session with Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi. The classified document, known as a National Intelligence Estimate, predicted three possible scenarios ranging from a tenuous stability to political fragmentation and civil war.

The CIA says Iraq has weapons of mass destruction so we have to go to war right away. Thousands dead and Billions lost with no end in sight. The CIA says things are getting worse, which they are a lot worse, and now the President dismisses it as a guess. Is he in some kind of denial or something. I hear stay the course a lot but I know if you dig a hole you can't get out of you don't keep digging down you change your course and start digging up before you are completely buried.

It's all a caculated guess----if you wait for everthing to be certain, it all would have happened already.

 

[duke]

Forged documents also played a part in the intelligence gathering process prior to invasion of Iraq, e.g the forged uranium documents in the yellowcake dossier.

yeah Joe Wilsons forged documents remember!!!!!!!

 

[nakedemperor]

yeah Joe Wilsons forged documents remember!!!!!!!

Er, not the ones I'm refering to... I'm talking about the documents the IAEA determined were forgeries:

"The documents are only a part of the disputed "intelligence" the Bush administration used to enlist support for an Iraq invasion. Other intelligence findings, which the administration and its principal ally, Britain, still support, assert a Saddam-Africa nuclear connection.

In the four months since the uranium documents were unmasked, the press has made only halting progress in identifying the counterfeiters, which may help explain why the documents seemed credible in the first place. Why wasn't Secretary of State Colin Powell ever tempted to cite the Niger intelligence? Who devised and executed the Niger scam? What exactly did they hope to gain from it?"

http://slate.msn.com/id/2085616/

 

[Avatar4321]

Er, not the ones I'm refering to... I'm talking about the documents the IAEA determined were forgeries:

"The documents are only a part of the disputed "intelligence" the Bush administration used to enlist support for an Iraq invasion. Other intelligence findings, which the administration and its principal ally, Britain, still support, assert a Saddam-Africa nuclear connection.

In the four months since the uranium documents were unmasked, the press has made only halting progress in identifying the counterfeiters, which may help explain why the documents seemed credible in the first place. Why wasn't Secretary of State Colin Powell ever tempted to cite the Niger intelligence? Who devised and executed the Niger scam? What exactly did they hope to gain from it?"

http://slate.msn.com/id/2085616/

Only problem with that is we had an article in a few posts from Italian newspapers telling us that it was the French who were responsible for the phoney documents. And that the French planted phoney documents for based on other intelligence of the transaction. so that they could expose the phoney documents and then turn around and discredit the evidence showing about the Uranium deposits. Maybe someone else remembers the specifics.

 

[Annie]

Only problem with that is we had an article in a few posts from Italian newspapers telling us that it was the French who were responsible for the phoney documents. And that the French planted phoney documents for based on other intelligence of the transaction. so that they could expose the phoney documents and then turn around and discredit the evidence showing about the Uranium deposits. Maybe someone else remembers the specifics.

At your service: http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12082

 

[Avatar4321]

At your service: http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12082

Dang you are fast.

 

[neo_68710]

Merlin, I think he's pointing out the inconsistancy in the reliance of CIA intelligence based on what appears to be whether or not the information suits the agenda of the Bush administation. Why doesn't Bush believe the CIA *now*.

Neo, Merlin also makes a good point, why DO you believe the CIA *now*?

Sorry for not answering I was away for a while but I will give it a shot now. Prior to the invasion in Iraq we had no idea wheather or not Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. The CIA said yes and Saddam was trying to get more but the UN inspectors said no. Well the CIA was wrong but the average person had no way of knowing really you could only speculate. Now the CIA puts out a document saying things are bad and they are only getting worse well with all the coverage of Iraq now a days you can clearly see that. Over 1,000 dead since mission accomplished and attacks have gone from 100 a month in January to 600 a month now I don't need the CIA to tell me things are bad and getting worse I can clearly see it. Bush says stay the course but like I said if you keep digging down you will only bury yourself.

 

[Annie]

Sorry for not answering I was away for a while but I will give it a shot now. Prior to the invasion in Iraq we had no idea wheather or not Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. The CIA said yes and Saddam was trying to get more but the UN inspectors said no. Well the CIA was wrong but the average person had no way of knowing really you could only speculate. Now the CIA puts out a document saying things are bad and they are only getting worse well with all the coverage of Iraq now a days you can clearly see that. Over 1,000 dead since mission accomplished and attacks have gone from 100 a month in January to 600 a month now I don't need the CIA to tell me things are bad and getting worse I can clearly see it. Bush says stay the course but like I said if you keep digging down you will only bury yourself.

CIA got WMD wrong according to you. Ok. Now you think they are getting Iraq situation right. Why would you think that?

 

[neo_68710]

CIA got WMD wrong according to you. Ok. Now you think they are getting Iraq situation right. Why would you think that?

Like I said before I don't need the CIA to say things are getting worse I can see that. Over 1,000 dead since mission accomplished, 100 attacks a month in January to 600 attacks a month now. This is not getting better this is worse the CIA can see this why can't Bush.

 

[duke]

Like I said before I don't need the CIA to say things are getting worse I can see that. Over 1,000 dead since mission accomplished, 100 attacks a month in January to 600 attacks a month now. This is not getting better this is worse the CIA can see this why can't Bush.

In WWII on a single bombing raid over Germany the USA lost 60 B-17s each with a crew of 10.....Later on the USA stormed the beaches of Normany and lost thousands of men in a single morning....that sounded like it was getting worse, but you know what? we didn't give up!!!!!