What Would King Say?

[IM2]

“The American Dream” July 4th Speech Transcript
Martin Luther King, Jr.​

I would like to discuss some of the problems that we confront in the world today, and some of the problems that we confront in our own nation by using as a subject The American Dream. I choose this subject because America is essentially a dream. It is a dream of a land where men of all races, of all nationalities, and of all creeds, can live together as brothers. The substance of the dream is expressed in these sublime words, “We hold these truths to be self- evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

Now, we notice in the very beginning that at the center of this dream is an amazing universalism. It does not say some men, but it says all men. It does not say all white men, but it says all men, which includes black men. It does not say all Gentiles, but it says all men, which includes Jews. It does not say all Protestants, but it says all men, which includes Catholics. That is something else that we notice in this American Dream, which is one of the things that distinguishes our form of government with some of the other totalitarian systems.

It says that each individual has certain inherent rights that are neither derived from or conferred by the state. They are gifts from the hands of the almighty God. Very seldom, if ever, in the history of the world has a socio-political document expressed in such profound, eloquent, and unequivocal language, the dignity and the worth of human personality. While the American Dream reminds us that every man is a heir of a legacy of worthfullness. But ever since the Founding Fathers of our nation dreamed this dream, America has been something of a schizophrenic personality.

On the one hand, we have proudly professed the noble principles of democracy. On the other hand, we have sadly practiced the very antithesis of those principles. Indeed, slavery and segregation have been strange paradoxes in a nation founded on the principle that all men are created equal. But now more than ever before, America is challenged to realize its noble dream, for the shape of the world today does not permit us the luxury of an anemic democracy, And the price that the United States must pay for the continued exploitation and oppression of the Negro and other minority groups, is the price of its own destruction.

MLK Jr. The American Dream 4th of July Speech | Transcripts

On July 4, 1965, Martin Luther King, Jr. gave a 4th of July speech. Read the full transcript of his speech here.

www.rev.com

 

[gulfman]

I wonder if King would judge the smash and grab thugs by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

 

[nawpar]

“The American Dream” July 4th Speech Transcript
Martin Luther King, Jr.​

I would like to discuss some of the problems that we confront in the world today, and some of the problems that we confront in our own nation by using as a subject The American Dream. I choose this subject because America is essentially a dream. It is a dream of a land where men of all races, of all nationalities, and of all creeds, can live together as brothers. The substance of the dream is expressed in these sublime words, “We hold these truths to be self- evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

Now, we notice in the very beginning that at the center of this dream is an amazing universalism. It does not say some men, but it says all men. It does not say all white men, but it says all men, which includes black men. It does not say all Gentiles, but it says all men, which includes Jews. It does not say all Protestants, but it says all men, which includes Catholics. That is something else that we notice in this American Dream, which is one of the things that distinguishes our form of government with some of the other totalitarian systems.

It says that each individual has certain inherent rights that are neither derived from or conferred by the state. They are gifts from the hands of the almighty God. Very seldom, if ever, in the history of the world has a socio-political document expressed in such profound, eloquent, and unequivocal language, the dignity and the worth of human personality. While the American Dream reminds us that every man is a heir of a legacy of worthfullness. But ever since the Founding Fathers of our nation dreamed this dream, America has been something of a schizophrenic personality.

On the one hand, we have proudly professed the noble principles of democracy. On the other hand, we have sadly practiced the very antithesis of those principles. Indeed, slavery and segregation have been strange paradoxes in a nation founded on the principle that all men are created equal. But now more than ever before, America is challenged to realize its noble dream, for the shape of the world today does not permit us the luxury of an anemic democracy, And the price that the United States must pay for the continued exploitation and oppression of the Negro and other minority groups, is the price of its own destruction.

MLK Jr. The American Dream 4th of July Speech | Transcripts

On July 4, 1965, Martin Luther King, Jr. gave a 4th of July speech. Read the full transcript of his speech here.

www.rev.com

The US is NOT exploiting nor oppressing anybody. The difference in outcomes doesn't mean anything.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

America is racist we never even had a real American black as President, but had to settle for the cheap-o Born in Kenya version!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

“The American Dream” July 4th Speech Transcript
Martin Luther King, Jr.​

I would like to discuss some of the problems that we confront in the world today, and some of the problems that we confront in our own nation by using as a subject The American Dream. I choose this subject because America is essentially a dream. It is a dream of a land where men of all races, of all nationalities, and of all creeds, can live together as brothers. The substance of the dream is expressed in these sublime words, “We hold these truths to be self- evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

Now, we notice in the very beginning that at the center of this dream is an amazing universalism. It does not say some men, but it says all men. It does not say all white men, but it says all men, which includes black men. It does not say all Gentiles, but it says all men, which includes Jews. It does not say all Protestants, but it says all men, which includes Catholics. That is something else that we notice in this American Dream, which is one of the things that distinguishes our form of government with some of the other totalitarian systems.

It says that each individual has certain inherent rights that are neither derived from or conferred by the state. They are gifts from the hands of the almighty God. Very seldom, if ever, in the history of the world has a socio-political document expressed in such profound, eloquent, and unequivocal language, the dignity and the worth of human personality. While the American Dream reminds us that every man is a heir of a legacy of worthfullness. But ever since the Founding Fathers of our nation dreamed this dream, America has been something of a schizophrenic personality.

On the one hand, we have proudly professed the noble principles of democracy. On the other hand, we have sadly practiced the very antithesis of those principles. Indeed, slavery and segregation have been strange paradoxes in a nation founded on the principle that all men are created equal. But now more than ever before, America is challenged to realize its noble dream, for the shape of the world today does not permit us the luxury of an anemic democracy, And the price that the United States must pay for the continued exploitation and oppression of the Negro and other minority groups, is the price of its own destruction.

MLK Jr. The American Dream 4th of July Speech | Transcripts

On July 4, 1965, Martin Luther King, Jr. gave a 4th of July speech. Read the full transcript of his speech here.

www.rev.com

He'd say Listen to IM2: if you're black, you got no chance, even math is racist!

 

[IM2]

I wonder if King would judge the smash and grab thugs by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

Besides the fact that whites are also smashing and grabbing, this thread is not about the only words you know that King spoke.

 

[IM2]

The US is NOT exploiting nor oppressing anybody. The difference in outcomes doesn't mean anything.

We have seen that the facts prove that your opinion is in error.

 

[IM2]

He'd say Listen to IM2: if you're black, you got no chance, even math is racist!

More off topic trolling. Please delete.

 

[IM2]

So we see the usual white trolling and gaslighting.

 

[IM2]

John Donne called it years ago and placed it in graphic times, no man is an island entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. And he goes on toward the end to say any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. We must come to see this if we are to realize the American dream. Next thing that must be done, we must get rid of the notion once and for all that there are superior and inferior races. Somehow this notion still lingers with us. We must make it palpably clear that a doctrine of white supremacy is both rationally absurd and morally unjustifiable.

And certainly this has been pointed out by authorities and scholars. It has been pointed out by the anthropological sciences, Ruth Benedict, Margaret Mead, Melville Herskovits and others have made it clear that there are no superior races. There may be superior and inferior individuals academically within all races, but no superior or inferior races. That somehow there are four types of blood and they are found in all races, but in spite of this, the notion still lingers. There was a time that people tried to justify racial inferiority on the basis of the Bible and religion.

And so someone could argue that the Negro is inferior by nature because of Noah’s curse upon the children of Ham. And Paul’s dictum became a watch where [inaudible 00:16:18] be obedient to your master. And then there was one brother who had probably read the logic of Aristotle. Aristotle used to deal with the syllogism, which had a major premise, a minor premise and a conclusion. And one brother put his argument in the framework of an Aristotelian syllogism. He could say, all men are made in the image of God. This was the major premise. And then came the minor premise, God as everybody knows is not a Negro, therefore the Negro is not a man. This was the type of reasoning that was used at that time to justify the inferiority of the Negro. But now it isn’t done so much on the biblical and religious ground, it’s something else.

It’s argued on subtle sociological and cultural grounds. And so we hear these things from time to time, the Negro is not culturally ready for integration. And of course, if you integrate the schools and if you integrate public facilities the Negro will pull the white race back a generation. And then there are those who gone to argue the Negro is a criminal, he is innately a criminal, they would say. He lags behind in all of his standards. So they use these subtle sociological arguments to say that integration should take place 100 years from now. You must lift these standards, they would argue. Well, the only answer that we can give is that if there are lagging standards in the Negro community, they lag because of segregation and discrimination.

MLK Jr. The American Dream 4th of July Speech | Transcripts

On July 4, 1965, Martin Luther King, Jr. gave a 4th of July speech. Read the full transcript of his speech here.

www.rev.com

 

[22lcidw]

John Donne called it years ago and placed it in graphic times, no man is an island entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. And he goes on toward the end to say any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. We must come to see this if we are to realize the American dream. Next thing that must be done, we must get rid of the notion once and for all that there are superior and inferior races. Somehow this notion still lingers with us. We must make it palpably clear that a doctrine of white supremacy is both rationally absurd and morally unjustifiable.

And certainly this has been pointed out by authorities and scholars. It has been pointed out by the anthropological sciences, Ruth Benedict, Margaret Mead, Melville Herskovits and others have made it clear that there are no superior races. There may be superior and inferior individuals academically within all races, but no superior or inferior races. That somehow there are four types of blood and they are found in all races, but in spite of this, the notion still lingers. There was a time that people tried to justify racial inferiority on the basis of the Bible and religion.

And so someone could argue that the Negro is inferior by nature because of Noah’s curse upon the children of Ham. And Paul’s dictum became a watch where [inaudible 00:16:18] be obedient to your master. And then there was one brother who had probably read the logic of Aristotle. Aristotle used to deal with the syllogism, which had a major premise, a minor premise and a conclusion. And one brother put his argument in the framework of an Aristotelian syllogism. He could say, all men are made in the image of God. This was the major premise. And then came the minor premise, God as everybody knows is not a Negro, therefore the Negro is not a man. This was the type of reasoning that was used at that time to justify the inferiority of the Negro. But now it isn’t done so much on the biblical and religious ground, it’s something else.

It’s argued on subtle sociological and cultural grounds. And so we hear these things from time to time, the Negro is not culturally ready for integration. And of course, if you integrate the schools and if you integrate public facilities the Negro will pull the white race back a generation. And then there are those who gone to argue the Negro is a criminal, he is innately a criminal, they would say. He lags behind in all of his standards. So they use these subtle sociological arguments to say that integration should take place 100 years from now. You must lift these standards, they would argue. Well, the only answer that we can give is that if there are lagging standards in the Negro community, they lag because of segregation and discrimination.

MLK Jr. The American Dream 4th of July Speech | Transcripts

On July 4, 1965, Martin Luther King, Jr. gave a 4th of July speech. Read the full transcript of his speech here.

www.rev.com

It is time for Black men to become industrial and high tech visionaries creating untold wealth and millions of jobs. The men who continue to build America is needed. And we spent much of our resources uplifting people and this has not happened.

 

[Samofvt]

It says that each individual has certain inherent rights that are neither derived from or conferred by the state. They are gifts from the hands of the almighty God.​

In researching the question "What is the 'American Dream'?" I find myself looking at this post from IM2

Sure, we can point to the failures, and those failures are worth remembering lest we forget. At the same time, we can also point to the 10's of thousands of men who gave their life to correct the failures, and I hope we don't forget them, either.

The snippet from the OP (above) catches my attention: each individual has certain inherent rights...

The more I listen, and the more I look at history, the more I am convinced: The American Dream was not founded on government ownership and control of everything. It was founded on the principle that each individual has certain inherent rights, and they should be free to use their resources as they see fit so that if they use them wisely, they can achieve unlimited success. The American Dream does not guarantee individual success, it simply allows it.

Many will fail. And here is where the controversy lies: It's the Christian way that we help our neighbors, and that's what kept people who failed from extreme hardship for many generations. Not that the government steps in and takes care of everyone. Now that a growing number of people have abandoned the Christian way, instead they pray to the government and expect all the hard work of helping thou neighbor be done for them. The government loves this and will continue to pretend to be the Almighty and continue to grow until it has taxed everyone beyond their means, and it will continue to ask for more and more unreasonable things from the people. It will grow until either we stand up and say ENOUGH, or we are divided into the governors and the slaves.

This is why we fought the civil war.

 

[IM2]

In researching the question "What is the 'American Dream'?" I find myself looking at this post from IM2

Sure, we can point to the failures, and those failures are worth remembering lest we forget. At the same time, we can also point to the 10's of thousands of men who gave their life to correct the failures, and I hope we don't forget them, either.

The snippet from the OP (above) catches my attention: each individual has certain inherent rights...

The more I listen, and the more I look at history, the more I am convinced: The American Dream was not founded on government ownership and control of everything. It was founded on the principle that each individual has certain inherent rights, and they should be free to use their resources as they see fit so that if they use them wisely, they can achieve unlimited success. The American Dream does not guarantee individual success, it simply allows it.

Many will fail. And here is where the controversy lies: It's the Christian way that we help our neighbors, and that's what kept people who failed from extreme hardship for many generations. Not that the government steps in and takes care of everyone. Now that a growing number of people have abandoned the Christian way, instead they pray to the government and expect all the hard work of helping thou neighbor be done for them. The government loves this and will continue to pretend to be the Almighty and continue to grow until it has taxed everyone beyond their means, and it will continue to ask for more and more unreasonable things from the people. It will grow until either we stand up and say ENOUGH, or we are divided into the governors and the slaves.

This is why we fought the civil war.

No, it's not why we fought the Civil War. And there has never been a christian way in this country. Whites were been given the tools for individual sucess while others were excluded. It's time to drop the delusion and face reality.

 

[Samofvt]

No, it's not why we fought the Civil War. And there has never been a christian way in this country. Whites were been given the tools for individual sucess while others were excluded. It's time to drop the delusion and face reality.

You should take an honest history course sometime. I'll bet there are some available at your community college. Well, at least history courses, they may be dishonest. To get anything out of an education, you often have to ask your own questions and do your own research. I've heard some of the new "modern" teachers have an agenda of marxism (which always leads to some form of slavery or other if you really study it, it's gone by different names in the past)...those instructors don't want you to ask the hard questions and punish those who deviate from the approved conclusions.

It most certainly is why we fought the Civil War. You think yankees really gave a shit about the south? The south was a drag on the modern, industrialized economy of the north. They gave a shit because what was going on was immoral. No sane person would have volunteered to risk their life over a patch of land. They had plenty up north and to the west.

While I lived in the deep south, once in a while I heard "The south's gonna do it again, you just mark my words". I thought they were insane or drunk. But now I see this marxist bull crap being pushed, and now I see how they are trying their dardest to "do it again". Big fail. Patriots and Christians are on to them.

 

[IM2]

You should take an honest history course sometime. I'll bet there are some available at your community college. Well, at least history courses, they may be dishonest. To get anything out of an education, you often have to ask your own questions and do your own research. I've heard some of the new "modern" teachers have an agenda of marxism (which always leads to some form of slavery or other if you really study it, it's gone by different names in the past)...those instructors don't want you to ask the hard questions and punish those who deviate from the approved conclusions.

It most certainly is why we fought the Civil War. You think yankees really gave a shit about the south? The south was a drag on the modern, industrialized economy of the north. They gave a shit because what was going on was immoral. No sane person would have volunteered to risk their life over a patch of land. They had plenty up north and to the west.

While I lived in the deep south, once in a while I heard "The south's gonna do it again, you just mark my words". I thought they were insane or drunk. But now I see this marxist bull crap being pushed, and now I see how they are trying their dardest to "do it again". Big fail. Patriots and Christians are on to them.

I'm fine with my knowledge of history. The North did not fight to free the slaves. Lincoln made it plain that his goal was to save the union. Only the south fought to maintain slavery.

There is no marxist bullcrap being pushed, but we do see white fascism rising.

 

[Samofvt]

I'm fine with my knowledge of history. The North did not fight to free the slaves. Lincoln made it plain that his goal was to save the union. Only the south fought to maintain slavery.

There is no marxist bullcrap being pushed, but we do see white fascism rising.

Of course Lincoln used that to justify the war. As a nation based on laws, that was the only thing he could use on the books, since the abolition amendment was not ratified.

But you would never be able to raise a 100,000 man army willing and eager to fight to the death unless there is a serious moral issue that the men can rally behind. For the South, the issue was preserving their socialist way of life. For the North, it was the immorality of slavery, which was abandoned in the north near the time of the Revolutionary war. Some states had abolished the practice before the union was formed (Like Vermont, which was the first nation in the western hemisphere to abolish it in its constitution before it joint the union as the 14th state).

The current invasion of Ukraine by Russia is an example of the need for a morality issue to underpin a war. Without the accusations of "nazism", the Russian men wouldn't be willing to fight. No other nation was accusing Ukraine of "nazism", and I see little real evidence other than some scattered pictures of swastikas and other symbols, so I'm led to believe that it is state propaganda Russian leaders have concocted. My neighbor is a Russian immigrant from Moldova who seems to believe the accusations, so I could be wrong, or it could be propaganda they have been broadcasting for many years.

Fascism is another offshoot of socialism, so I'm not surprised you're seeing it here.

I'm still confident we can bring real liberty and freedom back, but we need to get more people involved in the existing system. We don't need radical revolution, which is costly, counterproductive and sets society back no matter the outcome.