What was all the suffering of Jesus for?

[onefour1]

If God the Father is a perfect and upright being, then why couldn't He simply forgive us of our sins as we repent of them? Why was it necessary for him to send his Only Begotten Son into the world to atone for sin? Why couldn't he simply forgive us when we repent? What was all the suffering of Jesus for? Why did Jesus need to die?

I am interested in how others answer this question. What are your thoughts on this subject?

 

[konradv]

That sort of question has been asked for millennia with no definitive answers, hence my agnosticism.

God either wants to eliminate bad things and cannot, or can but does not want to, or neither wishes to nor can, or both wants to and can. If he wants to and cannot, then he is weak – and this does not apply to god. If he can but does not want to, then he is spiteful – which is equally foreign to god's nature. If he neither wants to nor can, he is both weak and spiteful, and so not a god. If he wants to and can, which is the only thing fitting for a god, where then do bad things come from? Or why does he not eliminate them?

— Lactantius(c. 250 – c. 325), De Ira Deorum(On the Wrath of Gods)

 

[Meriweather]

If God the Father is a perfect and upright being, then why couldn't He simply forgive us of our sins as we repent of them? Why was it necessary for him to send his Only Begotten Son into the world to atone for sin? Why couldn't he simply forgive us when we repent? What was all the suffering of Jesus for? Why did Jesus need to die?

I am interested in how others answer this question. What are your thoughts on this subject?

Sins are forgiven, and, Repentance for the forgiveness of sins were revolutionary ideas in Jesus day. Jews were expected to offer sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins--which put a great burden on the backs of the extremely poor and destitute who lived in Jesus' time. The Temple coffers depended on Temple sacrifice.

In Jesus' day, great teachers stayed put and the people came to them. Jesus broke that tradition as well and was what we would call today, an itinerant preacher. He went from place to place. The good news he preached that sins are forgiven/repentance for the forgiveness of sins was welcomed by the poor, but not so much by the wealthy who depended upon Temple sacrifice for their wealth.

Temple authorities insisted upon knowing by whose authority Jesus preached this message. They knew Jesus could not trace this back to Abraham, Moses, or one of the prophets. Jesus was not disturbed. He said this revelation was given by God Himself, who was his father. Jesus also had this habit of equating himself with God.

Big sticking point: There was no covenant with God where God ever said sins are forgiven/repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Covenants require a blood sacrifice. Temple authorities wanted him to cease and desist, something Jesus was not about to do. He knew he was preaching a very unpopular idea/truth that the rich and powerful would not welcome. He could see the handwriting on the wall--that this message would get him killed. Fine, this would be the blood covenant that proved his authority to announce the forgiveness of sins. Jesus gave up his life for the forgiveness of sins, for the ransom of many.

Many would have decided Jesus lost the battle, that prevailing thought on Temple sacrifice prevailed...except that he rose from the dead, and then a generation later, the Temple was destroyed.

The meaning of Testament is "Covenant". The Christian Bible came to be known as the Old Covenant/Testament and the New Covenant/Testament.

 

[hobelim]

If God the Father is a perfect and upright being, then why couldn't He simply forgive us of our sins as we repent of them? Why was it necessary for him to send his Only Begotten Son into the world to atone for sin? Why couldn't he simply forgive us when we repent? What was all the suffering of Jesus for? Why did Jesus need to die?

I am interested in how others answer this question. What are your thoughts on this subject?

Sin is disobedience to the law. Jesus came to do away with sin by teaching and demonstrating the only right way to understand and conform to the divine commands that leads to the promise of eternal life fulfilled, according to the revelation that he received from God like manna from heaven.

Repentance for doing what is wrong is not enough to be worthy of forgiveness if you never do what is right.



Jesus suffered and died because he was persecuted and killed for doing what is right by those who were exposed by his revelation as actors and lying frauds who were only dedicated to doing what is wrong..

 

[BreezeWood]

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there doesn't seem to be a clear answer as to why Jesus was even crucified, whether for the forgiveness of sins that would be senseless, being murdered or proof Jesus was who "he" said he was and why that was important to the Jews and not the Romans ... and that Jesus failed in his mission believing he was forsaken, as a sign of indecision.

.

 

[Meriweather]

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there doesn't seem to be a clear answer as to why Jesus was even crucified, whether for the forgiveness of sins that would be senseless, being murdered or proof Jesus was who "he" said he was and why that was important to the Jews and not the Romans ... and that Jesus failed in his mission believing he was forsaken, as a sign of indecision.

Jesus was reciting Psalm 22--the prayer of the an innocent person. This is a psalm of triumph which ends, "The generation to come will be told of the Lord, that they may proclaim to a people yet unborn the deliverance you have brought."

It would be like a patriot of today dying saying, "O say, can you see...?"

 

[onefour1]

So was there nothing to Jesus' death other than the natural outcome of evil men doing away with someone who got in their way?

Ephesians 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Colossians 1:14
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Romans 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


Do we not receive a forgiveness of sins and receive redemption through his blood?

1 John 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Hebrews 10:12
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 9:26
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Luke 22:44
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Galatians 1:4
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

If his death were not an atonement for our sins, why did he need to come to earth to be our redeemer?

1 Peter 1:18-19
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

It is believed by Christians world wide that we are redeemed through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That through shedding his blood, we can all, through repentance, receive a forgiveness of sins.

1 Peter 2:24
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Isaiah 53:5
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

So my question is why was his suffering and death necessary that we might receive a forgiveness of sin?

 

[BreezeWood]

.
there doesn't seem to be a clear answer as to why Jesus was even crucified, whether for the forgiveness of sins that would be senseless, being murdered or proof Jesus was who "he" said he was and why that was important to the Jews and not the Romans ... and that Jesus failed in his mission believing he was forsaken, as a sign of indecision.

Jesus was reciting Psalm 22--the prayer of the an innocent person. This is a psalm of triumph which ends, "The generation to come will be told of the Lord, that they may proclaim to a people yet unborn the deliverance you have brought."

It would be like a patriot of today dying saying, "O say, can you see...?"

.

Jesus was reciting Psalm 22--the prayer of the an innocent person.

Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani ...... 'My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?


you have not given a reason for the crucifixion ... murdering of Jesus, by whom or when the perpetrators have been brought to justice - "christian".

.

 

[Vastator]

There are countless thousands of other people who suffered far more, for a much greater length of time, than Jesus is purported to have. It frankly unimpressive in the least. Crucifixion was a common form of execution for eons before Jesus time. And crucifixion is far from the most suffering of deaths humans have contrived. Let's not blow shit out of proportion.

 

[onefour1]

If Jesus suffered for the sins of all men, would that not be an unbearable price for any other man to pay? I don't think a normal man could have bore the punishment of the sins of all mankind. I hardly think that this is blowing anything out of proportion. His sufferings were more than any other could imagine.

1 John 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Doctrine and Covenants 19:15-19
15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

Luke 22:44
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

2 Nephi 9:21
21 And he cometh into the world that he may save all men if they will hearken unto his voice; for behold, he suffereth the pains of all men, yea, the pains of every living creature, both men, women, and children, who belong to the family of Adam.

 

[Vastator]

Horse shit. His suffering was the same regardless of his motivation. If I stub my toe, it hurts. It doesn't hurt worse because I convinced myself I was trying to do something good when it happened.

 

[onefour1]

Not according to what has been written in scripture. If you don't believe it, that is your opinion. So I continue to seek the thoughts of others as to what they believe is the reason why Jesus had to suffer and die for mankind to receive mercy or forgiveness of sin.

 

[BreezeWood]

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Not according to what has been written in scripture.

So I continue to seek the thoughts of others as to what they believe is the reason why Jesus had to suffer and die for mankind to receive mercy or forgiveness of sin.

your double standard is glaring - - (what they believe they read) ... .

.

 

[onefour1]

And just how do you construe my asking others for their belief or opinion regarding as to why Jesus had to suffer and die for mankind to receive mercy or forgiveness of sin, to be a double standard? What is glaring to me is that you seek to find fault with me instead of engaging in the discussion I seek for.

Let me now revise my question for this thread: Are there any believing Christians, who would like to give me their opinion regarding as to why Jesus had to suffer and die for mankind to receive mercy or forgiveness of sin?

 

[IsaacNewton]

You need a protagonist that undergoes a transformation or the story goes nowhere.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

And just how do you construe my asking others ...

Let me now revise my question for this thread: Are there any believing Christians ...

others are not necessarily bible reading christians that have an opinion about Jesus or the historical and religious consequence pertaining to that period in time and the consequential bearing the discussion has for the true religion of the Almighty.

.

 

[alang1216]

If God the Father is a perfect and upright being, then why couldn't He simply forgive us of our sins as we repent of them? Why was it necessary for him to send his Only Begotten Son into the world to atone for sin? Why couldn't he simply forgive us when we repent? What was all the suffering of Jesus for? Why did Jesus need to die?

I am interested in how others answer this question. What are your thoughts on this subject?

A question I've never understood. God sets the rules and the punishment, then he pays the penalty to himself so he can forgive himself?

 

[tyroneweaver]

If God the Father is a perfect and upright being, then why couldn't He simply forgive us of our sins as we repent of them? Why was it necessary for him to send his Only Begotten Son into the world to atone for sin? Why couldn't he simply forgive us when we repent? What was all the suffering of Jesus for? Why did Jesus need to die?

I am interested in how others answer this question. What are your thoughts on this subject?

The gospel is what it is.

 

[tyroneweaver]

There are countless thousands of other people who suffered far more, for a much greater length of time, than Jesus is purported to have. It frankly unimpressive in the least. Crucifixion was a common form of execution for eons before Jesus time. And crucifixion is far from the most suffering of deaths humans have contrived. Let's not blow shit out of proportion.

Jesus sweat great drops of blood in the Garden of Gethsemane. That's when the atonement started.
How many do you know that are able to do that?

 

[tyroneweaver]

If God the Father is a perfect and upright being, then why couldn't He simply forgive us of our sins as we repent of them? Why was it necessary for him to send his Only Begotten Son into the world to atone for sin? Why couldn't he simply forgive us when we repent? What was all the suffering of Jesus for? Why did Jesus need to die?

I am interested in how others answer this question. What are your thoughts on this subject?

A question I've never understood. God sets the rules and the punishment, then he pays the penalty to himself so he can forgive himself?

I don't ever remember ever reading that. The scriptures say he was sinless.