What the hell is a fair tax?

[FA_Q2]

What About A Consumption Tax... No Loopholes?
If you purchase anything, you pay the tax ... Same rate across the board on all products and services.

.

A consumption tax, by its very nature, must have loopholes and that is one of the reasons that the advocates of the system here have not convinced me to join them. Some of the same questions come up like where the tax is applied. For instance: a sheet of plywood, when bought by you the consumer, would have that tax on it yet would the business that purchased such a product to build a house be taxed the same?

Almost all the consumption tax advocates say no but now they have just blown a hole a mile wide in the tax system and given politicians (and voters) another place to start demanding special interest tax breaks. It gets overly complicated from there as well.

I don't think that there is anyone working seriously on revising our federal taxation process. Despite that, the parade of nutballs trying to sell what's better for them at everybody else's expense is endless.

No one is working on it because congress gets far too much power enriching its members and paying off their friends with the convoluted tax code that exists today. What we have right now is ‘what’s better for them at everyone else’s expense’ and you are defending such a terrible system.

The fact that you cannot recognize that is downright scary.

 

[PMZ]

A consumption tax, by its very nature, must have loopholes and that is one of the reasons that the advocates of the system here have not convinced me to join them. Some of the same questions come up like where the tax is applied. For instance: a sheet of plywood, when bought by you the consumer, would have that tax on it yet would the business that purchased such a product to build a house be taxed the same?

Almost all the consumption tax advocates say no but now they have just blown a hole a mile wide in the tax system and given politicians (and voters) another place to start demanding special interest tax breaks. It gets overly complicated from there as well.

I don't think that there is anyone working seriously on revising our federal taxation process. Despite that, the parade of nutballs trying to sell what's better for them at everybody else's expense is endless.

No one is working on it because congress gets far too much power enriching its members and paying off their friends with the convoluted tax code that exists today. What we have right now is ‘what’s better for them at everyone else’s expense’ and you are defending such a terrible system.

The fact that you cannot recognize that is downright scary.

What government works on is evaluated the same way as business does. What are the biggest threats to future success. At the moment there is not a better cost/benefit country in the world. If there was, people would be moving from here to there.

 

[BlackSand]

What government works on is evaluated the same way as business does. What are the biggest threats to future success. At the moment there is not a better cost/benefit country in the world. If there was, people would be moving from here to there.

Oh but there are places in this world that are more cost/benefit driven ... And businesses are moving there.
It isn't so much a mass exodus ... But when the cost of doing business goes up without sufficient reward for taking the risk ... And with the added intent to loot those who take the risk ... You get what you ask for.

.

 

[PMZ]

What government works on is evaluated the same way as business does. What are the biggest threats to future success. At the moment there is not a better cost/benefit country in the world. If there was, people would be moving from here to there.

Oh but there are places in this world that are more cost/benefit driven ... And businesses are moving there.
It isn't so much a mass exodus ... But when the cost of doing business goes up without sufficient reward for taking the risk ... And with the added intent to loot those who take the risk ... You get what you ask for.

.

Businesses are relocating due to cheaper labor and less responsible environmental standards. Not less corporate taxes which are primarily state taxes.

 

[PMZ]

What government works on is evaluated the same way as business does. What are the biggest threats to future success. At the moment there is not a better cost/benefit country in the world. If there was, people would be moving from here to there.

Oh but there are places in this world that are more cost/benefit driven ... And businesses are moving there.
It isn't so much a mass exodus ... But when the cost of doing business goes up without sufficient reward for taking the risk ... And with the added intent to loot those who take the risk ... You get what you ask for.

.

Businesses are relocating due to cheaper labor and less responsible environmental standards. Not less corporate taxes which are primarily state taxes.

BTW there are no higher business risks than betting that a marginal economy or a precariously unstable country, will stay on course.

 

[BlackSand]

Businesses are relocating due to cheaper labor and less responsible environmental standards. Not less corporate taxes which are primarily state taxes.

That isn't true in a lot cases I am familiar with ... And cost/benefit along with security of investment and protection from oppressive taxation or unreasonable regulation ... Has everything to do with it.
But you can believe whatever you want to believe ... And there are enough bad players that you can make a point.

All I said is that you cannot say there are not cost/benefit driven countries that are more appealing to Americans at the moment.

The fact that you want to argue with it ... And demand that the whole world conform to your narrow-minded view of the way things could or should operate ... Is exactly why you will remain one of those left behind to wallow in continued failure.
Some people want ... Other people get ... And the problem with you is that you don't know how to get ... Or just cannot get without cheating ... Not my problem.

.

 

[PMZ]

Businesses are relocating due to cheaper labor and less responsible environmental standards. Not less corporate taxes which are primarily state taxes.

That isn't true in a lot cases I am familiar with ... And cost/benefit along with security of investment and protection from oppressive taxation or unreasonable regulation ... Has everything to do with it.
But you can believe whatever you want to believe ... And there are enough bad players that you can make a point.

All I said is that you cannot say there are not cost/benefit driven countries that are more appealing to Americans at the moment.

The fact that you want to argue with it ... And demand that the whole world conform to your narrow-minded view of the way things could or should operate ... Is exactly why you will remain one of those left behind to wallow in continued failure.
Some people want ... Other people get ... And the problem with you is that you don't know how to get ... Or just cannot get without cheating ... Not my problem.

.

Speaking of unstable.........

You remind me of the typical unstable emotional customer yelling that because she's unhappy with her dinner, the restaurant will go bankrupt.

The good proprietor gets good at saying, I'm sorry that you're disappointed, while guiding her to the door, with the sincere hope that she, in the future, helps his competition with their businesses.

 

[BlackSand]

BTW there are no higher business risks than betting that a marginal economy or a precariously unstable country, will stay on course.

Who said anything about unstable countries ... And what is stability worth if it comes at a substantially diminishing cost to freedom?
The best thing about countries wanting to leave the third world now ... Is that they have a massive blueprint set by other countries as far as what works and what doesn't work.

It is amazing to see how some third world countries struggle to implement policies that are both self sustaining and beneficial to all.
I am aware of places where ideas such as environmentalism and protection of the working class ... Are core elements in active governing.
In many cases they far surpass anything America has to offer ... Without overbearing regulation or the inability of government and business to work as partners toward a common goal.

.

 

[BlackSand]

Speaking of unstable.........

You remind me of the typical unstable emotional customer yelling that because she's unhappy with her dinner, the restaurant will go bankrupt.

The good proprietor gets good at saying, I'm sorry that you're disappointed, while guiding her to the door, with the sincere hope that she, in the future, helps his competition with their businesses.

The diner is bankrupt ... And wants to charge the customer for their terrible service.
To ignore the fact that someone is willing to at least help them see the problem ... Is probably why they are bankrupt to start with.

.

 

[PMZ]

Speaking of unstable.........

You remind me of the typical unstable emotional customer yelling that because she's unhappy with her dinner, the restaurant will go bankrupt.

The good proprietor gets good at saying, I'm sorry that you're disappointed, while guiding her to the door, with the sincere hope that she, in the future, helps his competition with their businesses.

The diner is bankrupt ... And wants to charge the customer for their terrible service.
To ignore the fact that someone is willing to at least help them see the problem ... Is probably why they are bankrupt to start with.

.

We have substantial debt from our disastrous experiment with conservative government. The only way out is to get back to what Bush started with. A robust and flourishing economy.

I have confidence in the ability of business to accomplish that. They just need to know that the American consumer is demanding it, and will be the carrot and stick for companies that help or hurt the effort to get there.

 

[BlackSand]

We have substantial debt from our disastrous experiment with conservative government. The only way out is to get back to what Bush started with. A robust and flourishing economy.

I have confidence in the ability of business to accomplish that. They just need to know that the American consumer is demanding it, and will be the carrot and stick for companies that help or hurt the effort to get there.

I see you chose to run to the Bushes again ... So Sad, So Very Sad.

By the way ... Did you see the poll the Washington Post reported in April of this year?
It has President Bush with a 47% job approval rating ... I bet President Obama wishes that was his right about now.

Post-ABC poll: Approval ratings of George W. Bush - The Washington Post

Blaming President Bush will not work for you anymore ... The longer you guys are in office ... The better his numbers get.

.

 

[PMZ]

We have substantial debt from our disastrous experiment with conservative government. The only way out is to get back to what Bush started with. A robust and flourishing economy.

I have confidence in the ability of business to accomplish that. They just need to know that the American consumer is demanding it, and will be the carrot and stick for companies that help or hurt the effort to get there.

I see you chose to run to the Bushes again ... So Sad, So Very Sad.

By the way ... Did you see the poll the Washington Post reported in April of this year?
It has President Bush with a 47% job approval rating ... I bet President Obama wishes that was his right about now.

Post-ABC poll: Approval ratings of George W. Bush - The Washington Post

Blaming President Bush will not work for you anymore ... The longer you guys are in office ... The better his numbers get.

.

I am, and will continue to, hold Bush, Republicans, and conservatives accountable for our $17T debt.

I am, and will continue to, hold business accountable for our unemployment.

I am, and will continue to, hold Republicans and their media accountable for the grossly misinformed electorate of which you are a prime example.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We have substantial debt from our disastrous experiment with conservative government. The only way out is to get back to what Bush started with. A robust and flourishing economy.

I have confidence in the ability of business to accomplish that. They just need to know that the American consumer is demanding it, and will be the carrot and stick for companies that help or hurt the effort to get there.

I see you chose to run to the Bushes again ... So Sad, So Very Sad.

By the way ... Did you see the poll the Washington Post reported in April of this year?
It has President Bush with a 47% job approval rating ... I bet President Obama wishes that was his right about now.

Post-ABC poll: Approval ratings of George W. Bush - The Washington Post

Blaming President Bush will not work for you anymore ... The longer you guys are in office ... The better his numbers get.

.

I am, and will continue to, hold Bush, Republicans, and conservatives accountable for our $17T debt.

I am, and will continue to, hold business accountable for our unemployment.

I am, and will continue to, hold Republicans and their media accountable for the grossly misinformed electorate of which you are a prime example.

I am, and will continue to, hold Bush, Republicans, and conservatives accountable for our $17T debt.

I love how you guys avoid any responsibility for Obama's debt.

 

[PMZ]

I see you chose to run to the Bushes again ... So Sad, So Very Sad.

By the way ... Did you see the poll the Washington Post reported in April of this year?
It has President Bush with a 47% job approval rating ... I bet President Obama wishes that was his right about now.

Post-ABC poll: Approval ratings of George W. Bush - The Washington Post

Blaming President Bush will not work for you anymore ... The longer you guys are in office ... The better his numbers get.

.

I am, and will continue to, hold Bush, Republicans, and conservatives accountable for our $17T debt.

I am, and will continue to, hold business accountable for our unemployment.

I am, and will continue to, hold Republicans and their media accountable for the grossly misinformed electorate of which you are a prime example.

I am, and will continue to, hold Bush, Republicans, and conservatives accountable for our $17T debt.

I love how you guys avoid any responsibility for Obama's debt.

Obama's contribution was to end Bush's policies that caused it all.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...he-one-graph-you-need-to-see-before-watching/

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I am, and will continue to, hold Bush, Republicans, and conservatives accountable for our $17T debt.

I am, and will continue to, hold business accountable for our unemployment.

I am, and will continue to, hold Republicans and their media accountable for the grossly misinformed electorate of which you are a prime example.

I am, and will continue to, hold Bush, Republicans, and conservatives accountable for our $17T debt.

I love how you guys avoid any responsibility for Obama's debt.

Obama's contribution was to end Bush's policies that caused it all.

Republican National Convention: The one graph you need to see before watching - The Washington Post

Which Bush policies did he end?
Be specific.

 

[PMZ]

I am, and will continue to, hold Bush, Republicans, and conservatives accountable for our $17T debt.

I love how you guys avoid any responsibility for Obama's debt.

Obama's contribution was to end Bush's policies that caused it all.

Republican National Convention: The one graph you need to see before watching - The Washington Post

Which Bush policies did he end?
Be specific.

Read my reference. Pay attention.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Obama's contribution was to end Bush's policies that caused it all.

Republican National Convention: The one graph you need to see before watching - The Washington Post

Which Bush policies did he end?
Be specific.

Read my reference. Pay attention.

I saw your silly reference, now answer the question......if you can.

 

[PMZ]

Which Bush policies did he end?
Be specific.

Read my reference. Pay attention.

I saw your silly reference, now answer the question......if you can.

The reference answers the question.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Read my reference. Pay attention.

I saw your silly reference, now answer the question......if you can.

The reference answers the question.

No it doesn't.

What Bush policy did Obama end?

If he ended all the expensive Bush policies, why isn't spending back to the 2000 level?

Does Obama have responsibility for any of the $17.2 trillion in debt, $6.6 trillion higher than the day he took office?
What about the $800 billion since his 2nd term started?

He is the smartest President in history, can't he do anything to reduce his massive increase in spending since 2009?
If the economy is recovered and the stock market recovered and tax receipts are higher than they were under Bush, why is he adding almost $1 trillion in new debt this year?

 

[PMZ]

I saw your silly reference, now answer the question......if you can.

The reference answers the question.

No it doesn't.

What Bush policy did Obama end?

If he ended all the expensive Bush policies, why isn't spending back to the 2000 level?

Does Obama have responsibility for any of the $17.2 trillion in debt, $6.6 trillion higher than the day he took office?
What about the $800 billion since his 2nd term started?

He is the smartest President in history, can't he do anything to reduce his massive increase in spending since 2009?
If the economy is recovered and the stock market recovered and tax receipts are higher than they were under Bush, why is he adding almost $1 trillion in new debt this year?

First of all, the spending that each President approves is discretionary spending. Mandatory spending, like Medicare, is determined by the law that created it. It's not under the control of each administration.

Secondly, inflation has to be considered. It's idiotic to compare different year dollars. %of GDP is one way to do that.

So here's the Obama administration record.


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/01/29/1510761/three-charts-domestic-spending-lows/