Zone1 What kind of LDS Mormon are you (Utah)?

John Edgar Slow Horses

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I have known Mormons all of my life. The religion is all American, and many like me find it very interesting without believing in it.

Robert W dropped the other day that he is Utah LDS but with a twist. He does not believe that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. (Robert W, is this right? Correct me if I am wrong).

Modern Latter Day Saints are facing schisms in the future.

One, a monogamous Jospeh Smith church with no need for temple work or garment wearing. Michelle Brady Stone and Denver Snuffer are two charismatic leaders of this persuasion.

Two, the LDS Utah church as it is today, with a monogamous present and the polygamous past, temple work, etc. The current leadership as it is now with three high priests and 12 apostles are in charge, very heavily masculine dominant.

Three, an actively plural marriage mainstream LDS Church based in Salt Lake City. This is not the Fundamentalist LDS Church, which is a different organization altogether.

Let's dialogue.
 
Robert W dropped the other day that he is Utah LDS but with a twist. He does not believe that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. (Robert W, is this right? Correct me if I am wrong).
You may wish to research the biography of Joseph Smith's plural lives. Heads up: Some of these are highly reliable; some not. Smith is thought to have had forty wives, but this number varies as well. Those who are interested should do their own research, and as always, I highly recommend primary sources.
 
Wouldn't that basically just be Catholicism with a few name changes?
No. It would still have the Golden Plates, angelic messengers, prophets and seers and messengers, modern day revelation, etc. What role the temples would take is unseen.
 
I have known Mormons all of my life. The religion is all American, and many like me find it very interesting without believing in it.

Robert W dropped the other day that he is Utah LDS but with a twist. He does not believe that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. (Robert W, is this right? Correct me if I am wrong).

Modern Latter Day Saints are facing schisms in the future.

One, a monogamous Jospeh Smith church with no need for temple work or garment wearing. Michelle Brady Stone and Denver Snuffer are two charismatic leaders of this persuasion.

Two, the LDS Utah church as it is today, with a monogamous present and the polygamous past, temple work, etc. The current leadership as it is now with three high priests and 12 apostles are in charge, very heavily masculine dominant.

Three, an actively plural marriage mainstream LDS Church based in Salt Lake City. This is not the Fundamentalist LDS Church, which is a different organization altogether.

Let's dialogue.
I had always heard that polygamy was introduced by Brigham Young AFTER Joseph Smith’s death and that there was controversy over it at the time. But when Utah’s statehood hinged on the matter, God changed his mind.
 
Much multiple marriage was going on in Nauvoo before JS's death, pinqy, early as 1841.

I find the 'murder conspiracy' by Brigham Young, Willard Richards, and John Taylor to scrag Smith very interesting.
 
I had always heard that polygamy was introduced by Brigham Young AFTER Joseph Smith’s death and that there was controversy over it at the time. But when Utah’s statehood hinged on the matter, God changed his mind.
I believe Young was one of the Apostles that defended Smiths polygamy. Believe it was called "spiritual wifery" or something lolz
 
There is an apologist site on youtube called, "Saints Unscripted" which does a decent job of going over the many controversial topics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Here is the Link: Saints Unscripted

Here is one such video of the many on the site which covers polygamy.



From my personal perspective as a member, I believe that God instituted this practice in Old Testament times as we see with Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon. I believe that this practice was to be restored for a time in the dispensation of the fulness of times. In this dispensation God would restore or make a restitution of the ancient practices that he instituted during the days of other dispensations. I believe this was prophesied of in the Bible during the days of Jesus' apostles:

Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Ephesians 1:10
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

We believe that through Joseph Smith, God opened the dispensation of the fulness of times and sent Jesus who was before preached unto us.

Here is another video:

 
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I have known Mormons all of my life. The religion is all American, and many like me find it very interesting without believing in it.


I /We also find you most interesting but unbelievable .

Do you remember your hundreds of posts supporting use of the Killer Vaccine against the engineered so called Covid Virus .
And how you imagined that the UAF was winning the war when it captured empty and abandoned villages .

Such an interesting Horsey Horse .
 
Brian Hales says Smith had more than one wife. I think in a conference he said it was nine.

rsc.byu.edu › sites › defaultBrian C. Hales and Laura Harris Hales - Religious Studies Center


118 Brian C. Hales and Laura Harris Hales In 1840, Joseph Smith began teaching the practice of polygamy, or plu-rality of wives, to select members of

Michelle B. Stone is a monogamous Joseph Smith fan with a site that is great to listen to. Understand she is a conspiracy theorist (it began with some unfortunate leadership changes in the church during covid that infuriated her and thousands of members). I don't believe her premises, but she offers a lot f information.

 
No. It would still have the Golden Plates, angelic messengers, prophets and seers and messengers, modern day revelation, etc. What role the temples would take is unseen.
Pretty sure that catholics have all that stuff too except for the golden plates. They have (had?) stone tablets instead.
 
Crepitus, you are not up on your comparative LDS-Catholic religions. That's OK.
 
I have known Mormons all of my life. The religion is all American, and many like me find it very interesting without believing in it.

Robert W dropped the other day that he is Utah LDS but with a twist. He does not believe that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. (Robert W, is this right? Correct me if I am wrong).

Modern Latter Day Saints are facing schisms in the future.

One, a monogamous Jospeh Smith church with no need for temple work or garment wearing. Michelle Brady Stone and Denver Snuffer are two charismatic leaders of this persuasion.

Two, the LDS Utah church as it is today, with a monogamous present and the polygamous past, temple work, etc. The current leadership as it is now with three high priests and 12 apostles are in charge, very heavily masculine dominant.

Three, an actively plural marriage mainstream LDS Church based in Salt Lake City. This is not the Fundamentalist LDS Church, which is a different organization altogether.

Let's dialogue.

1. Mormons are generally good people. Nothing I say here is a remark on Mormons personally. BUT

2. If you really want to find out how trustworthy Joseph Smith was, look into the "Book of Abraham"--a complete fabrication from start to finish. That right there should have ended the denomination, but didn't.

3. On top of that, Mormons don't usually tell people all of their really zany beliefs. Such as: Jesus and Satan are spirit-brothers, and good Mormons go on to inherit their own PLANET for eternity, with "celestial wives" and all the kids they want or something. Oh and God has/had a wife......
 
Brian Hales has his own website that is filled with information on the controversial topic of Joseph Smith and polygamy. It can be found at Joseph Smith's Polygamy . Brian Hales is a expert researcher on the topic.
"As this episode of Mormon history involved more than just Joseph and his first wife Emma, this volume also includes short biographies of the 36 women who were married to the Prophet but whose stories of faith, struggle, and courage have been largely forgotten and ignored over time.

While we may never fully understand the details and reasons surrounding this practice, Brian and Laura Hales provide readers with an accessible, forthright, and faithful look into this challenging topic so that we can at least come toward a better understanding."
 
1. Mormons are generally good people. Nothing I say here is a remark on Mormons personally. BUT

2. If you really want to find out how trustworthy Joseph Smith was, look into the "Book of Abraham"--a complete fabrication from start to finish. That right there should have ended the denomination, but didn't.









3. On top of that, Mormons don't usually tell people all of their really zany beliefs. Such as: Jesus and Satan are spirit-brothers, and good Mormons go on to inherit their own PLANET for eternity, with "celestial wives" and all the kids they want or something. Oh and God has/had a wife......

Yes, In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we do believe that God the Father has a wife and that our spirits are the offspring of God.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

In fact our Lord Jesus Christ was the firstborn spirit child of the Father. All the rest of us are brothers and sisters in the spirit to Jesus Christ. We also believe that Lucifer was one of the sons and daughters of God in the spirit and that he at one time held high position in heaven and was known as a son of the morning. So yes, he was also a brother to Jesus and all the rest of us. But he rebelled against our Father in Heaven and he also got many of the children of God to follow after him. He and his followers were eventually cast out of heaven and became the devil and his minions.

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

From these verses we see that Lucifer fell from heaven. So what was his standing before he fell from heaven? He was a spirit son of God the Father and known as a son of the morning. He along with all the rest of us, including Jesus, were children of God the Father. Jesus was the Father's firstborn. Lucifer rebelled against God and tried to get as many of the children of God to follow after him. This was known as the war in heaven. Those who followed Lucifer were cast out of heaven along with Lucifer into the earth and thus became the devil and his minions. Just as we can fall and go to hell, Lucifer and his follower fell by using their free will to rebel against God.

We believe that families can be forever and that marriage is a holy union between man and woman that can last into the eternities. We believe that God himself has a wife and that through that union our spirits were born. We believe that it is possible to become as perfect as our Heavenly Father and for this reason Jesus commanded us to do the following:

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We believe that we can become one with God even as Jesus and the Father are one.

John 17:20-22
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Yes, we believe that through the grace of God we can become like him. We can become as perfect as he is. In other words, we believe we can become a god. Jesus even called us gods because we are the very offspring of God the Father and have the capacity to become perfect like he is.

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:3136
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Can you not imagine that in the hereafter that if you were to become as perfect as God that you might be able to create your own planets? Is that really something that is beyond comprehension? God himself has created worlds without number and would he not want his children to grow up and become the best that is possible? To be perfect even as he is perfect. To become one even as Jesus is one with the Father. Don't be as the Jews of the days of Jesus who were ready to cry blasphemy and pick up stones to kill him. We as the literal children of God have the capacity to become like our Savior and Father in Heaven.
 
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I have known Mormons all of my life. The religion is all American, and many like me find it very interesting without believing in it.

Robert W dropped the other day that he is Utah LDS but with a twist. He does not believe that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. (Robert W, is this right? Correct me if I am wrong).
John walking Mares,

My apology for not knowing of this post.
I admit that you are correct. I did not realize Joseph Smith the founder had other wives. I find at the Church this is not relevant to modern living and we don't waste time talking about this issue. However if you want to know why, my son went into some details this am with me. He is way more up on this than I was. He cited as I have too that women were left in the cold when husbands were killed by Indians, by accidents on the road and such. He mentioned the Civil War as an issue talking about Mormon troops lost in combat. I corrected that for him since he was murdered in 1844 and the Civil war came later.

Let me help this by posting our Articles of Faith.

1736799701116.webp
 
Bob Bubb, thank you for first admitting to the facts that Joseph was a polygamist.

Your son briefed you on general suppositions, and they are good enough if one is not a faith believer.

Look up Michelle Brady Stone's JosephwasMonogamist on FB for the other side of the story.

The LDS Church will schism over this struggle in the next ten years, I bet.
 
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