Zone1 What is Wrong with Inequality?

[citygator]

Inequality exists and existed in every society. Things are not equal in nature or life. Quite the opposite. No hand of government can make it equal.

Inequality is not the harbinger of doom. Trying to right it in the name of egalitarianism is.

The enemy of good is perfection. Not looking for perfection or an egalitarian society. We are talking degrees or fairness. It has moved the wrong way since 1980.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Standard of living has declined

I disagree. Working class and working poor have a higher standard living in this country than ever before.

 

[Foxfyre]

Speaking of personal wealth as measured in economic Net Worth, there is absolutely no question that "inequality" is increasing beyond any precedent in a free country. The people at the bottom, so to speak, have less than nothing; their Net Worth is below zero, while the wealthiest of us - mainly entrepreneurs and investors - accumulate more and more wealth.

It is axiomatic on the Left that "inequality" is bad. They obviously feel that increasing "inequality" is self-evidently evil, and must be fought. They base whole political campaigns on promises to fight inequality.

What's wrong with inequality? Imagine an entrepreneur who invents a new gadget that millions of people quickly decide that they are willing to pay substantial amounts of money to have, and that entrepreneur is able to accumulate a King's Ransom on the profits from those gadgets.

So what? Why is that a bad thing? Is anyone else made poorer or more wretched by the entrepreneur's accumulation of wealth? Assume he pays millions and millions in all manner of taxes, complying with every relevant tax law.

Given that the vast majority of the Ameerican rich--5 percenters, 1 percenters--started out as poor or at least not rich at by U.S. standards, inequality here is due to a) intuition, creativity, temperament to take risk, innovation b) hard work, aptitude, ability, work ethic, c) good luck.

There is no class or caste system here to prevent any American from achieving great wealth. That some don't is not the fault of those who do but rather is the result of the choices they make. Sometimes those choices include a choice not to do what would have made them rich.

Wealth inequality is one of the dog whistles leftists use to demonize America. The fact is that pretty much all of America's poorest citizens are 'rich' compared to most of the world's poor. They are richer and enjoy a higher standard of living than most of the people the CCP presumable lifted out of poverty for instance.

I don't see income inequality in America as some evil, sinister thing but rather a result of those factors in my first paragraph here.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Speaking of personal wealth as measured in economic Net Worth, there is absolutely no question that "inequality" is increasing beyond any precedent in a free country. The people at the bottom, so to speak, have less than nothing; their Net Worth is below zero, while the wealthiest of us - mainly entrepreneurs and investors - accumulate more and more wealth.

It is axiomatic on the Left that "inequality" is bad. They obviously feel that increasing "inequality" is self-evidently evil, and must be fought. They base whole political campaigns on promises to fight inequality.

What's wrong with inequality? Imagine an entrepreneur who invents a new gadget that millions of people quickly decide that they are willing to pay substantial amounts of money to have, and that entrepreneur is able to accumulate a King's Ransom on the profits from those gadgets.

So what? Why is that a bad thing? Is anyone else made poorer or more wretched by the entrepreneur's accumulation of wealth? Assume he pays millions and millions in all manner of taxes, complying with every relevant tax law.

Inequality will always exist., Without it, this universe would not exist. The composition of this universe is one billion and one particles of matter for every one billion particles of antimatter. If that composition had been even at the birth of the universe, we wouldn't be here. Not even nature itself favors true equality.

 

[OODA_Loop]

The enemy of good is perfection. Not looking for perfection or an egalitarian society. We are talking degrees or fairness. It has moved the wrong way since 1980.

So lay it out…..what’s “fair”?

 

[alang1216]

I work to provide for my descendants.

No socialist bureaucrat is going to determine how much is too much.

Unless you have the misfortune to live in a democracy, of course.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Unless you have the misfortune to live in a democracy, of course.

Unless you have the misfortune to live in a democracy, of course.

Where is your shining beacon of egalitarianism and equity?

 

[citygator]

So lay it out…..what’s “fair”?

First you have to accept that there is no way to achieve a more equitable balance of wealth if money doesnt move from the wealthy to those who are not wealthy. If there is zero room in your head for that concept, nothing can be done.

If you are still open then the only way to get there is with more payments from the top and more benefits to the bottom. If people didnt have to worry about retirement when they get old and healthcare at any age you solve most of the issue of those who are broke.

 

[rightwinger]

The enemy of good is perfection. Not looking for perfection or an egalitarian society. We are talking degrees or fairness. It has moved the wrong way since 1980.

Working class America had it good till 1980. Strong unions, affordable homes, affordable education, dependable healthcare, good pensions
Since then, wages have been stagnant, benefits cut, healthcare through the roof.

 

[OODA_Loop]

First you have to accept that there is no way to achieve a more equitable balance of wealth if money doesnt move from the wealthy to those who are not wealthy.

The top tax brackets are at 37% for income and capital gains tax.

How much more you reckon will do it?

Make it all equity like?

Half of someone’s nut - 75%. Hell if you determine that have too much what not 90%?

 

[rightwinger]

The top tax brackets are at 37% for income and capital gains tax.

How much more you reckon will do it?

Make it all equity like?

Half of someone’s nut - 75%. Hell if you determine that have too much what not 90%?

50 percent on income over $1 million

 

[OODA_Loop]

50 percent on income over $1 million

No one should be forced to give half
of what they make to government.

That is immoral.

 

[citygator]

The top tax brackets are at 37% for income and capital gains tax.

How much more you reckon will do it?

Make it all equity like?

Half of someone’s nut - 75%. Hell if you determine that have too much what not 90%?

Are you open to a more equitable split in wealth or is there no room for the wealthy to be less wealthy and those at the bottom to have a little more room between living and living in destitute?

 

[OODA_Loop]

Are you open to a more equitable split in wealth or is there no room for the wealthy to be less wealthy and those at the bottom to have a little more room between living and living in destitute?

No there is no equitable split. The “rich” are already taxed up to 37%.

Are you open to a taxation where everyone is taxed the same percentage?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Speaking of personal wealth as measured in economic Net Worth, there is absolutely no question that "inequality" is increasing beyond any precedent in a free country. The people at the bottom, so to speak, have less than nothing; their Net Worth is below zero, while the wealthiest of us - mainly entrepreneurs and investors - accumulate more and more wealth.

It is axiomatic on the Left that "inequality" is bad. They obviously feel that increasing "inequality" is self-evidently evil, and must be fought. They base whole political campaigns on promises to fight inequality.

What's wrong with inequality? Imagine an entrepreneur who invents a new gadget that millions of people quickly decide that they are willing to pay substantial amounts of money to have, and that entrepreneur is able to accumulate a King's Ransom on the profits from those gadgets.

So what? Why is that a bad thing? Is anyone else made poorer or more wretched by the entrepreneur's accumulation of wealth? Assume he pays millions and millions in all manner of taxes, complying with every relevant tax law.

Joined in Omission

You don't mention inherited wealth, which is totally unearned. Neither does the Left. You're both from the same "Born to Rule" birth-class.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The wealthy already give back. They support massive charities. They build hospitals, establish research centers and found university chairs.

What they cannot do is support the poor. The more help the poor get, the more poor there are. The United States has the wealthiest poor on the planet. The poor have cars, at least one television set, they live with both air conditioning and heating. Normally, the poor in this country are clinically obese. Poverty being relative, the San Francisco Bay Area has as many poor, if not more poor, than the projects in Chicago. The difference is, the San Francisco poor make over $100,000 a year and scrape by on food stamps.

To the largest extent, the poor cannot be helped into moving beyond their poverty. They have a mind set that keeps them poor. Give them a windfall, no matter how large. Within a year, they will be just as poor as they ever were. This has been proven with lottery winner after lottery winner. The only beneficiaries of lottery winnings are already wealthy people on whom the winner wastes the money.

Ideology Is a Spitball Fight at a Prep School

The conflict is not between the rich and the poor, who are a disgrace. So this dichotomy, no matter how much it is repeated, is a straw man and a decoy.

The conflict is between those born with talent and those born with wealth. The fact that no ideology has focused on hereditary power proves that they are all controlled by hereditary power.

 

[citygator]

No there is no equitable split. The “rich” are already taxed up to 37%.

Are you open to a taxation where everyone is taxed the same percentage?

The average effective tax rate for $1M in income is 26%. And if you make $1M+ in income you are likely deferring 30-50% until later making your real effective tax rate even lower.

But even if you are paying 40% income taxes and 1% has all the wealth then its not working.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The rich are the movers and shakers of the economy. Without them there would be no economy. In America most any sane person can become rich.

An Ignition Key Is Not an Engine

 

[Invisibleflash]

Speaking of personal wealth as measured in economic Net Worth, there is absolutely no question that "inequality" is increasing beyond any precedent in a free country. The people at the bottom, so to speak, have less than nothing; their Net Worth is below zero, while the wealthiest of us - mainly entrepreneurs and investors - accumulate more and more wealth.

It is axiomatic on the Left that "inequality" is bad. They obviously feel that increasing "inequality" is self-evidently evil, and must be fought. They base whole political campaigns on promises to fight inequality.

What's wrong with inequality? Imagine an entrepreneur who invents a new gadget that millions of people quickly decide that they are willing to pay substantial amounts of money to have, and that entrepreneur is able to accumulate a King's Ransom on the profits from those gadgets.

So what? Why is that a bad thing? Is anyone else made poorer or more wretched by the entrepreneur's accumulation of wealth? Assume he pays millions and millions in all manner of taxes, complying with every relevant tax law.

Inequality is part of life. The filthy commie dem pigs need to accept it. But filthy commie dem pigs can't accept it, as they suffer from perfection dis-ease. If anything is imperfect it causes them pain. The problem is...the filthy commie dems pigs seek the path to perfection by destroying everyone else's rights and freedoms to achieve their wet dream. And the result is the filthy commie dem pigs end up destroying all aspects of the good for everyone.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

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Daddy's Money Is Not a "Capacity"