What is unity?

[candycorn]

Trump didn’t pardon the capitol hill rioters/insurrectionists?

Newsweek seems to think they did:

Man who stomped on officers' heads among Jan. 6 prisoners pardoned by Trump

President Trump is facing scrutiny for pardons for those who violently protested the 2020 election at the Capitol.

www.newsweek.com

Thoughts?

Can we universally condemn the pardon of someone who stomped on a police officer’s head?

Foxfyre can you bring yourself to condemn this pardon?

Of course you can’t.

 

[Eman623]

Unity does not mean everyone has to share the same opinions. It means coming together with people who you disagree with and finding common ground.

 

[saveliberty]

High school chapters? Seems like they are trying to indoctrinate minors.

More like countering the indoctrination the Left has been doing for years now. Attacking prayer in schools, trans converting young kids and the like.

 

[Woodznutz]

Doesn't matter. There will be no unity, now or in the future.

 

[candycorn]

More like countering the indoctrination the Left has been doing for years now. Attacking prayer in schools, trans converting young kids and the like.

LOL....

It explains why Arkansas will always be Arkansas. The teacher teaches the kids that there was this thing called evolution at 9AM...at 11PM, some dude from “the chapter” tells the kids that some bearded guy on a cloud created everything.

 

[Foxfyre]

Unity is having one identity, not a bunch of disparate ones blaming other identities for all their woes. In the case of America, it involves being an American rather than some sort of hyphenated American and operating within the realm of ideas and principles and not tribe.

The idea here, is to create a melting pot, not just of people, but of ideas with dialogue between those who differ offered in such a way as to arrive at the best way to govern that supports the best interests of all.

If you are trying to PREVENT the expression of ideas like those supporting the Kirk murder, you are part of the problem and not the solution.

If by 'one identity' you mean we all see ourselves as Americans first and whatever else we are as second, I would agree that would definitely go a long way toward unifying us. Instead of a melting pot, I rather see the ideal as sort of a stew--all different and adding his/her own texture and flavor, but all part of the same stew.

I think those criticizing Trump for not calling for unity actually mean he isn't calling for everybody to agree with them and not the MAGA vision of a strong, free, secure, prosperous America that most of us share. The vision/goal is not negotiable for those who call themselves Patriots or MAGAs. But we can debate and negotiate on how best to accomplish it.

So long as so many despise the idea of that strong, free, secure, prosperous America, there can be no unity because that is not negotiable for Patriots/MAGAs or those we elected to represent us.

Again, unity/coming together is sharing and working toward that common vision/goal. It doesn't mean giving up issues that are important to any individual, but a willingness to set those aside long enough to achieve the greater goal. Then we can debate and work out whatever compromises or agreements are necessary on individual issues.

 

[Foxfyre]

The Left has driven discord and disunity for decades now. It is their standard operating procedure. Time to own it and change.

So how is that accomplished? Is your goal unity/coming together? Or something else?

How do we get there?

 

[Foxfyre]

They could renounce Marxism and SATAN, then perhaps I'd give them a chance to prove themselves as NOT DANGEROUS MANIACS.
Of course, that will NEVER happen.

So what you see is their position makes unity impossible.

But surely unity is more to you than just not being dangerous?
What does unity/coming together mean to you?

 

[there4eyeM]

"What is unity?"​

It is a small town in Maine, near Liberty, Freedom and Thorndike.

 

[JLW]

Do you believe either the left or the right does that in our American society? Or any other society?

You say all the options are wrong. How does Option 1 in the poll not express this?

Opinion 1 is one definition of unity. My definition was based on unity in a democratic or republican society where views are often different. No one agrees 100% of the time, but because you may differ does not mean you are not unified as a country, i.e feel a common bond.

 

[Foxfyre]

Unity can only grow if we talk to each other, which was the key to Charlie Kirk's mission. The Left knew that and one person took the messages of the Left and decided killing was justified.

I agree that is is necessary to talk with each other in a civil exchange of opinions and ideas. We can be unified in our common vision/goal while having differences of opinion on how to achieve it. But without willingness to talk to each other, we will never agree on how we can work together to do that.

Charlie Kirk was a brilliant master in his willingness to talk, to teach, to persuade, to inform. But he was effective because he also listened, encouraged exchange of ideas/opinions and encouraged the young heads full of mush to actually think about what they were reciting. And because he was so effective, he was dangerous to those who disagreed with him. When disagreement becomes contempt or hate, it in itself becomes dangerous.

There are members trying their damndest to derail this thread or create a food fight. I choose not to take that bait because they aren't interested in talking or exchanging ideas but being childish and unhelpful and snarky and hateful is sport to them. They don't want unity.

 

[there4eyeM]

"Unity" is an aspiration. It is a metaphor. In a diverse society, "unity" will never be uniformity. It will, at best, be relative. It comes from people of good will making the effort to work together while understanding ideas may differ.

 

[Foxfyre]

Opinion 1 is one definition of unity. My definition was based on unity in a democratic or republican society where views are often different. No one agrees 100% of the time, but because you may differ does not mean you are not unified as a country, i.e feel a common bond.

Thank you. I agree sharing a common vision/goal does not mean we will all agree on how best to achieve it. But as saveliberty said, if we are not willing to talk with each other, we will never achieve whatever compromise is necessary to achieve agreement on how best to move us forward to accomplish that commonly shared vision/goal.

Willingness to talk with each other without hate, malice, contempt is, in my opinion, where unity begins. Once we do that we are likely to find that we agree on much more than we disagree. But so long as we can talk civilly with a common vision/goal in mind, we are much more likely to agree on how to accomplish it.

Imagine how difficult it was for the Founders to take so many different ideas, opinions, beliefs, personal goals that existed in the late 18th century and be able to achieve sufficient agreement to create the vision/goal all wanted of a new nation that offered liberty, protection of unalienable rights, and ability to defend itself. Every man had to compromise something he would have like to have included in the Constitution, but they, in their wisdom allowed for changes and/or corrections later on. But sharing a common vision achieved the unity and compromises necessary to make all that happen.

 

[SeaMajor7]

So what you see is their position makes unity impossible.

But surely unity is more to you than just not being dangerous?
What does unity/coming together mean to you?

Under normal circumstances in this country, the two-party system, both sides want what's good for America. Both having different ideas to get there.
The voters vote, and the losing side goes home to try again next time, yet remaining civil Americans.
All that went out the window when Nixon won big. The demented LEFT weren't having that and began the LEFT's now traditional RESIST AND SABATOGE the opposition.
It has deteriorated exponentially ever sine getting to where we are today with a snowballs chance in HELLof any unity with them whatsoever.
Last week was the final straw, the threshold, the line crossed.
I am THOROULY DISGUSTED with these subverted demoralized Stalinist Marxist Leninist zombies.
Unity N/A

 

[Foxfyre]

Under normal circumstances in this country, the two-party system, both sides want what's good for America. Both having different ideas to get there.
The voters vote, and the losing side goes home to try again next time, yet remaining civil Americans.
All that went out the window when Nixon won big. The demented LEFT weren't having that and began the LEFT's now traditional RESIST AND SABATOGE the opposition.
It has deteriorated exponentially ever sine getting to where we are today with a snowballs chance in HELLof any unity with them whatsoever.
Last week was the final straw, the threshold, the line crossed.
I am THOROULY DISGUSTED with these subverted demoralized Stalinist Marxist Leninist zombies.
Unity N/A

You are not alone in that sentiment for sure. And yes, Republicans and Democrats were once unified a common vision/hope for America with the only differences being how best to accomplish that. They shared basic American values and equally enjoyed and promoted American symbols and traditions.

Somehow they did lose their way. And no longer want anything to do with unity or anything the Patriots/MAGAs/Republicans or others on the right promote no matter how much they demand President Trump et al call for unity. Unity to them means everybody on the right just give up, go silent and allow the left to do whatever it wants to do.

But again, what could change your mind? My mind? What could the left/Democrats do that would convince us that they do want a unified America?

 

[Foxfyre]

"Unity" is an aspiration. It is a metaphor. In a diverse society, "unity" will never be uniformity. It will, at best, be relative. It comes from people of good will making the effort to work together while understanding ideas may differ.

Thank you. Well said. So did you vote Option #1 in the poll?

 

[SeaMajor7]

You are not alone in that sentiment for sure. And yes, Republicans and Democrats were once unified a common vision/hope for America with the only differences being how best to accomplish that. They shared basic American values and equally enjoyed and promoted American symbols and traditions.

Somehow they did lose their way. And no longer want anything to do with unity or anything the Patriots/MAGAs/Republicans or others on the right promote no matter how much they demand President Trump et al call for unity. Unity to them means everybody on the right just give up, go silent and allow the left to do whatever it wants to do.

But again, what could change your mind? My mind? What could the left/Democrats do that would convince us that they do want a unified America?

They have to be voted OUT of power EVERYWHERE.
That's the only way the demented LEFT can possibly learn self-awareness.
That's the only civil way to address the situation.
Will they accept that?
I doubt it.

 

[Foxfyre]

They have to be voted OUT of power EVERYWHERE.
That's the only way the demented LEFT can possibly learn self-awareness.
That's the only civil way to address the situation.
Will they accept that?
I doubt it.

I can appreciate your sentiment and I agree that those who promote disunity and division among us should be voted out of power.

But what could they do to convince us they actually do want unity?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Free speech should be championed, and I mean truly free speech, which means not censoring curricula and topics that one group doesn't like while making certain to push the agenda of only one group as being that of true Americans.

I'm proud to be white.
I'm proud to be black.

Unity accepts both, if either statement makes anyone uneasy, or they disagree, or have a negative emotion, they're the problem to unity.

Which one made you uncomfortable?

 

[Foxfyre]

Unity does not mean everyone has to share the same opinions. It means coming together with people who you disagree with and finding common ground.

Exactly. You and there4eyeM pretty much nailed it.

Unity does require a common vision/goal of where we all want to be. But to get there, it invariably requires dialogue, exchange of ideas/opinion, etc. and most likely some compromise or concessions on how best to achieve that vision/goal.

There can be no unity if one side's goal is to reject, condemn, ridicule the vision/goal or anybody on the other side and is unwilling to actually have a discussion.

So many times I have engaged in a discussion with somebody, but because I express a Patriot/MAGA point of view or disagree with his/hers, the exchange ends with them making some ugly remark and calling me a vile name.

We won't ever get to unity that way.