What is the most destructive Conservative policy in the US today?

[LoneLaugher]

"The worst liberal policy is the same it's always been: Lowering standards & expectations for groups it decides are oppressed, and in turn enabling that group's worst behaviors, hurting them and the country in the future."

The above is 100% bullshit.

 

[Votto]

Almost every Conservative I know loves Ayn Rand.

Not me, she just did not have the legs required.

 

[Votto]

I'll try a companion thread to the one on liberal policies.

My response to that thread was "The worst liberal policy is the same it's always been: Lowering standards & expectations for groups it decides are oppressed, and in turn enabling that group's worst behaviors, hurting them and the country in the future."

For this thread, I'd say: The worst conservative policy is their absolute refusal to admit and accept the fact that, in any given socioeconomic system, there will be people who function better within it, and those who function worse within it. And those people are being left behind, FAR behind, with this absolutist anti-government madness that began when the Right took Reagan's "government is the problem" speech tag line as literal gospel.

The hardcore Left has wrecked our culture; the hardcore Right has wrecked our socioeconomics. A pox on both houses.

Any thoughts?
.

Perhaps the greatest failure of the American Political Right, a fatal flame-out spanning seven plus decades, is/was its collective nonchalance in believing it could fight back the tide of the Leftist culture war with minimal effort i.e. its belief that the American People would inherently choose to do the right thing, and perhaps its assumption the ideological domination of nearly every last institute of higher learning by Marxist/ postmodernist inspired philosophies wasn't so big of a deal. The problem: at our psychological core we all are little more than children who when offered the chance to defy our parents without repercussion or serious punishment will almost always do just that. Thus the deception of radical Leftism which tempts our populace with such opportunities of defiance of ancient tradition has made countless miles of cultural change inroads without much resistance from any level or sector of our civilization.

If Marx is correct, unbridled Capitalism will lead to Communism.

If Marx is correct, unicorns fly.

 

[task0778]

"The worst conservative policy is their absolute refusal to admit and accept the fact that, in any given socioeconomic system, there will be people who function better within it, and those who function worse within it. And those people are being left behind, FAR behind, with this absolutist anti-government madness that began when the Right took Reagan's "government is the problem" speech tag line as literal gospel."

OK, first let's specify that we're talking about conservatives rather than limiting the discussion to neo-cons (whatever you think that might mean) and Republicans. I think it's not true that conservatives don't accept and admit that there are some people who function better or worse in any socio-economic system, even our own. That's a fairly obvious and undeniable observation. But the crux of the statement lies in what to do about it: frankly, the gov't has not shown much evidence that it can help those who were left behind to any significant degree. I think there's a lot of truth in the statement that "government is the problem", but to declare that corresponds to "absolutist anti-government madness" is nonsense. True, there are some who fit that description, but to paint us all that way is a fallacy and wrong. That said, in recent decades it's hard to find examples where the gov't solutions and programs were that successful compared to the money and time expended on them. So, I think there is reason to support the anti-government position.

So far, I have yet to see a valid reason why the conservative approach to limited gov't is destructive. Obviously, gov't at every level has its legitimate functions, and no sane person wants anarchy. But tell me what is destructive about wanting a gov't that accomplishes its functions in an efficient and effective way. What is destructive about wanting our gov't to perform the functions it was designed to do, but NOT other functions. Are we to believe the bigger gov't solution is the only solution to society's woes? I think not.

 

[imawhosure]

What does "efficient and effective regulation of markets" mean? Does it mean businesses are prohibited from cheating customers? Or does it mean government is telling business how much they have to pay their employees, who they have to hire, who they can fire and why, how much they can charge for their services, etc, etc, etc.... ?

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

Protect consumers from fraud, protect markets against distortion, protect the economy against monopolies. That kind of regulation.

I think that's pretty straightforward, and I don't know why this needs to be such a mystery.
.

Mac, as far as regulation from either side------------------>your view of finding equilibrium is a very good way to put it, and kudos to you. But, here in lies the problem----------->congress has abdicated the responsibility of a vote up or down on these things, to UNELECTED officials. If they had NOT, life in America would be much different today, and you might NEVER have anyone like Donald Trump elected.

CONSIDER--------------> If congress creates a bill to ban guns totally by some loophole, (just using as an example) then if the population wants a reversal, the people who run against THAT POLICY and against them in the next cycle, take control and reverse it! ERGO, congress voted, the citizens were made aware and didn't like it, so they threw them out! THAT IS HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE!

But not today! Unelected people create policies, from the EPA, down to the Education Department. We throwing out our elected officials, has zero affect on those people, and they just keep on keeping on.

Now let me be fair------------> NEITHER party wants to vote on many of these so called REGULATIONS, because they know, many of them are unpopular. How could they get re-elected, if they piss people off!

Let me give you a PERFECT EXAMPLE, and you are intelligent, so I know you will understand this better than anyone else, or at least as well as most.

OBAMACARE! Do you REMEMBER how unpopular it was? Hell, it cost the Democrats the majority in BOTH chambers of congress at the time!

But, you now see polls how Obamacare is now popular; and how can you miss them, every Left leaning person on this board touts those polls, and Republicans scratch their heads, and can't figure out what happened. HOW did it go from sooooooooooo unpopular, to reasonably POPULAR. Makes no sense!

Contrair, it makes PERFECT SENSE, and here is why------------------> Because what made Obamacare soooooooooo unpopular, was removed by President Trump, which was EPIC STUPIDITY on his part. As soon as the MANDATE was removed, the tax liability for having no insurance, it became wonderful! In essence, even though it was a bad program, and losing money hand over fist before, the government took its partial funding mechanism, and put it on the shoulders of the government, meaning higher deficits or more taxes, and now REALLY give something for nothing, or no penalty!

Now that Obamacare doesn't piss off people by not taking taxes because they have no insurance, yet still give people subsidies, people LOVE IT! It pisses nobody off, except it runs at a massive loss, a bigger loss than it should have ever been allowed to! And now, because it is popular, the Republicans are scared to death to mess with it! In essence, what the Republicans did was BAD, BAD, politics.

We must always remember, that President Obama NOR the Democrats created the original Obamacare, they just signed it into law. The people who created it, were UNELECTED officials; many who are still in their positions in Washington, just waiting while licking their chops to invoke Medicare for all, IF a Democrat gets elected.

And the Republicans? The Republicans! Most of them are sooooooooooooo dumb, they basically FIXED what was so unlikeable about Obamacare, putting themselves in a conundrum now, while adding to the massive deficit, because under a law they failed to repeal wholly, they must now fund it.

Whenever I watch a Trump rally, I cringe as he touts his repeal of the mandate. WWith logical spinning, the Left can now proclaim--------->see how many people now like Obamacare; how popular it is! If you like that, you will LOVE Medicare for all! Remember what the Republicans said about Obamacare? How you should hate it? It just took some getting used to, and now you like it. Same will be with the new program.

President Trump------------------> you SCREWED THE POOCH ON THIS ONE, and it is going to be a very hard slog to convince the over 50% of the people who now like Obamacare because YOU REMOVED THE PAIN FROM THEM, that Medicare for all is not a good thing. YOUR policy made it MORE popular, even as you made it LESS viable. Now what are YOU going to do!

 

[impuretrash]

"The worst liberal policy is the same it's always been: Lowering standards & expectations for groups it decides are oppressed, and in turn enabling that group's worst behaviors, hurting them and the country in the future."

The above is 100% bullshit.

He's spot on. Case in point: gay pride parades.

Instead of a celebration of community, they're a celebration of degeneracy.

 

[dblack]

What does "efficient and effective regulation of markets" mean? Does it mean businesses are prohibited from cheating customers? Or does it mean government is telling business how much they have to pay their employees, who they have to hire, who they can fire and why, how much they can charge for their services, etc, etc, etc.... ?

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

Protect consumers from fraud, protect markets against distortion, protect the economy against monopolies. That kind of regulation.

I think that's pretty straightforward, and I don't know why this needs to be such a mystery.
.

Mac, as far as regulation from either side------------------>your view of finding equilibrium is a very good way to put it, and kudos to you. But, here in lies the problem----------->congress has abdicated the responsibility of a vote up or down on these things, to UNELECTED officials. If they had NOT, life in America would be much different today, and you might NEVER have anyone like Donald Trump elected.

CONSIDER--------------> If congress creates a bill to ban guns totally by some loophole, (just using as an example) then if the population wants a reversal, the people who run against THAT POLICY and against them in the next cycle, take control and reverse it! ERGO, congress voted, the citizens were made aware and didn't like it, so they threw them out! THAT IS HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE!

But not today! Unelected people create policies, from the EPA, down to the Education Department. We throwing out our elected officials, has zero affect on those people, and they just keep on keeping on.

Now let me be fair------------> NEITHER party wants to vote on many of these so called REGULATIONS, because they know, many of them are unpopular. How could they get re-elected, if they piss people off!

Let me give you a PERFECT EXAMPLE, and you are intelligent, so I know you will understand this better than anyone else, or at least as well as most.

OBAMACARE! Do you REMEMBER how unpopular it was? Hell, it cost the Democrats the majority in BOTH chambers of congress at the time!

But, you now see polls how Obamacare is now popular; and how can you miss them, every Left leaning person on this board touts those polls, and Republicans scratch their heads, and can't figure out what happened. HOW did it go from sooooooooooo unpopular, to reasonably POPULAR. Makes no sense!

Contrair, it makes PERFECT SENSE, and here is why------------------> Because what made Obamacare soooooooooo unpopular, was removed by President Trump, which was EPIC STUPIDITY on his part. As soon as the MANDATE was removed, the tax liability for having no insurance, it became wonderful! In essence, even though it was a bad program, and losing money hand over fist before, the government took its partial funding mechanism, and put it on the shoulders of the government, meaning higher deficits or more taxes, and now REALLY give something for nothing, or no penalty!

Now that Obamacare doesn't piss off people by not taking taxes because they have no insurance, yet still give people subsidies, people LOVE IT! It pisses nobody off, except it runs at a massive loss, a bigger loss than it should have ever been allowed to! And now, because it is popular, the Republicans are scared to death to mess with it! In essence, what the Republicans did was BAD, BAD, politics.

We must always remember, that President Obama NOR the Democrats created the original Obamacare, they just signed it into law. The people who created it, were UNELECTED officials; many who are still in their positions in Washington, just waiting while licking their chops to invoke Medicare for all, IF a Democrat gets elected.

And the Republicans? The Republicans! Most of them are sooooooooooooo dumb, they basically FIXED what was so unlikeable about Obamacare, putting themselves in a conundrum now, while adding to the massive deficit, because under a law they failed to repeal wholly, they must now fund it.

Whenever I watch a Trump rally, I cringe as he touts his repeal of the mandate. WWith logical spinning, the Left can now proclaim--------->see how many people now like Obamacare; how popular it is! If you like that, you will LOVE Medicare for all! Remember what the Republicans said about Obamacare? How you should hate it? It just took some getting used to, and now you like it. Same will be with the new program.

President Trump------------------> you SCREWED THE POOCH ON THIS ONE, and it is going to be a very hard slog to convince the over 50% of the people who now like Obamacare because YOU REMOVED THE PAIN FROM THEM, that Medicare for all is not a good thing. YOUR policy made it MORE popular, even as you made it LESS viable. Now what are YOU going to do!

Yep. THIS. Exactly.

 

[Mac1958]

What does "efficient and effective regulation of markets" mean? Does it mean businesses are prohibited from cheating customers? Or does it mean government is telling business how much they have to pay their employees, who they have to hire, who they can fire and why, how much they can charge for their services, etc, etc, etc.... ?

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

Protect consumers from fraud, protect markets against distortion, protect the economy against monopolies. That kind of regulation.

I think that's pretty straightforward, and I don't know why this needs to be such a mystery.
.

Mac, as far as regulation from either side------------------>your view of finding equilibrium is a very good way to put it, and kudos to you. But, here in lies the problem----------->congress has abdicated the responsibility of a vote up or down on these things, to UNELECTED officials. If they had NOT, life in America would be much different today, and you might NEVER have anyone like Donald Trump elected.

CONSIDER--------------> If congress creates a bill to ban guns totally by some loophole, (just using as an example) then if the population wants a reversal, the people who run against THAT POLICY and against them in the next cycle, take control and reverse it! ERGO, congress voted, the citizens were made aware and didn't like it, so they threw them out! THAT IS HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE!

But not today! Unelected people create policies, from the EPA, down to the Education Department. We throwing out our elected officials, has zero affect on those people, and they just keep on keeping on.

Now let me be fair------------> NEITHER party wants to vote on many of these so called REGULATIONS, because they know, many of them are unpopular. How could they get re-elected, if they piss people off!

Let me give you a PERFECT EXAMPLE, and you are intelligent, so I know you will understand this better than anyone else, or at least as well as most.

OBAMACARE! Do you REMEMBER how unpopular it was? Hell, it cost the Democrats the majority in BOTH chambers of congress at the time!

But, you now see polls how Obamacare is now popular; and how can you miss them, every Left leaning person on this board touts those polls, and Republicans scratch their heads, and can't figure out what happened. HOW did it go from sooooooooooo unpopular, to reasonably POPULAR. Makes no sense!

Contrair, it makes PERFECT SENSE, and here is why------------------> Because what made Obamacare soooooooooo unpopular, was removed by President Trump, which was EPIC STUPIDITY on his part. As soon as the MANDATE was removed, the tax liability for having no insurance, it became wonderful! In essence, even though it was a bad program, and losing money hand over fist before, the government took its partial funding mechanism, and put it on the shoulders of the government, meaning higher deficits or more taxes, and now REALLY give something for nothing, or no penalty!

Now that Obamacare doesn't piss off people by not taking taxes because they have no insurance, yet still give people subsidies, people LOVE IT! It pisses nobody off, except it runs at a massive loss, a bigger loss than it should have ever been allowed to! And now, because it is popular, the Republicans are scared to death to mess with it! In essence, what the Republicans did was BAD, BAD, politics.

We must always remember, that President Obama NOR the Democrats created the original Obamacare, they just signed it into law. The people who created it, were UNELECTED officials; many who are still in their positions in Washington, just waiting while licking their chops to invoke Medicare for all, IF a Democrat gets elected.

And the Republicans? The Republicans! Most of them are sooooooooooooo dumb, they basically FIXED what was so unlikeable about Obamacare, putting themselves in a conundrum now, while adding to the massive deficit, because under a law they failed to repeal wholly, they must now fund it.

Whenever I watch a Trump rally, I cringe as he touts his repeal of the mandate. WWith logical spinning, the Left can now proclaim--------->see how many people now like Obamacare; how popular it is! If you like that, you will LOVE Medicare for all! Remember what the Republicans said about Obamacare? How you should hate it? It just took some getting used to, and now you like it. Same will be with the new program.

President Trump------------------> you SCREWED THE POOCH ON THIS ONE, and it is going to be a very hard slog to convince the over 50% of the people who now like Obamacare because YOU REMOVED THE PAIN FROM THEM, that Medicare for all is not a good thing. YOUR policy made it MORE popular, even as you made it LESS viable. Now what are YOU going to do!

We elect officials whose top two priorities, by far, are (1) fundraising and (2) re-election. As a result, pleasing the base is far more important than working together on ANYTHING, and that includes the creation and maintenance of regulations.

There's sure as hell nothing magic about what I suggest regarding regulations.

Fundraising and re-election. As long as money controls politics, and as long as we don't have term limits, I'm not holding my breath on any improvements.

Just remember - as a result of this, capitalism is distorted, perverted. And therefore it's an easy target. We're seeing the attack on it in real time.
.

 

[imawhosure]

What does "efficient and effective regulation of markets" mean? Does it mean businesses are prohibited from cheating customers? Or does it mean government is telling business how much they have to pay their employees, who they have to hire, who they can fire and why, how much they can charge for their services, etc, etc, etc.... ?

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

Protect consumers from fraud, protect markets against distortion, protect the economy against monopolies. That kind of regulation.

I think that's pretty straightforward, and I don't know why this needs to be such a mystery.
.

Mac, as far as regulation from either side------------------>your view of finding equilibrium is a very good way to put it, and kudos to you. But, here in lies the problem----------->congress has abdicated the responsibility of a vote up or down on these things, to UNELECTED officials. If they had NOT, life in America would be much different today, and you might NEVER have anyone like Donald Trump elected.

CONSIDER--------------> If congress creates a bill to ban guns totally by some loophole, (just using as an example) then if the population wants a reversal, the people who run against THAT POLICY and against them in the next cycle, take control and reverse it! ERGO, congress voted, the citizens were made aware and didn't like it, so they threw them out! THAT IS HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE!

But not today! Unelected people create policies, from the EPA, down to the Education Department. We throwing out our elected officials, has zero affect on those people, and they just keep on keeping on.

Now let me be fair------------> NEITHER party wants to vote on many of these so called REGULATIONS, because they know, many of them are unpopular. How could they get re-elected, if they piss people off!

Let me give you a PERFECT EXAMPLE, and you are intelligent, so I know you will understand this better than anyone else, or at least as well as most.

OBAMACARE! Do you REMEMBER how unpopular it was? Hell, it cost the Democrats the majority in BOTH chambers of congress at the time!

But, you now see polls how Obamacare is now popular; and how can you miss them, every Left leaning person on this board touts those polls, and Republicans scratch their heads, and can't figure out what happened. HOW did it go from sooooooooooo unpopular, to reasonably POPULAR. Makes no sense!

Contrair, it makes PERFECT SENSE, and here is why------------------> Because what made Obamacare soooooooooo unpopular, was removed by President Trump, which was EPIC STUPIDITY on his part. As soon as the MANDATE was removed, the tax liability for having no insurance, it became wonderful! In essence, even though it was a bad program, and losing money hand over fist before, the government took its partial funding mechanism, and put it on the shoulders of the government, meaning higher deficits or more taxes, and now REALLY give something for nothing, or no penalty!

Now that Obamacare doesn't piss off people by not taking taxes because they have no insurance, yet still give people subsidies, people LOVE IT! It pisses nobody off, except it runs at a massive loss, a bigger loss than it should have ever been allowed to! And now, because it is popular, the Republicans are scared to death to mess with it! In essence, what the Republicans did was BAD, BAD, politics.

We must always remember, that President Obama NOR the Democrats created the original Obamacare, they just signed it into law. The people who created it, were UNELECTED officials; many who are still in their positions in Washington, just waiting while licking their chops to invoke Medicare for all, IF a Democrat gets elected.

And the Republicans? The Republicans! Most of them are sooooooooooooo dumb, they basically FIXED what was so unlikeable about Obamacare, putting themselves in a conundrum now, while adding to the massive deficit, because under a law they failed to repeal wholly, they must now fund it.

Whenever I watch a Trump rally, I cringe as he touts his repeal of the mandate. WWith logical spinning, the Left can now proclaim--------->see how many people now like Obamacare; how popular it is! If you like that, you will LOVE Medicare for all! Remember what the Republicans said about Obamacare? How you should hate it? It just took some getting used to, and now you like it. Same will be with the new program.

President Trump------------------> you SCREWED THE POOCH ON THIS ONE, and it is going to be a very hard slog to convince the over 50% of the people who now like Obamacare because YOU REMOVED THE PAIN FROM THEM, that Medicare for all is not a good thing. YOUR policy made it MORE popular, even as you made it LESS viable. Now what are YOU going to do!

We elect officials whose top two priorities, by far, are (1) fundraising and (2) re-election. As a result, pleasing the base is far more important than working together on ANYTHING, and that includes the creation and maintenance of regulations.

There's sure as hell nothing magic about what I suggest regarding regulations.

Fundraising and re-election. As long as money controls politics, and as long as we don't have term limits, I'm not holding my breath on any improvements.

Just remember - as a result of this, capitalism is distorted, perverted. And therefore it's an easy target. We're seeing the attack on it in real time.
.

I agree with you 100%. I also agree with another poster, or maybe it was you who stated something to the effect of------------------> Trump was elected as a huge middle finger to the elites in both party's.

I no longer know what to say to you, because I know you are a Democrat...…….NOT a Far Leftist, but a Democrat.

As of the time I am writing this, it appears we have a choice in 2020, between Socialism, and Trump. I wish people like you had control over your party, at least we wouldn't be in such a do-or-die position.

I also wish that BOTH party's TOGETHER, would INSIST upon congress having to vote on the passing of regulations. It would make life so much easier; and after all----------->if they want to lead us, they should put THEIR chins forward, instead of hiding behind UNELECTED officials so as they do NOT get the blame. Begging for us to vote for them to lead, then leading from BEHIND, is having no leaders at all.

I don't know Mac, but I think it is sad state of affairs. All of us deserve better than this, and more accountability from our politicians. WHERE ARE OUR GENERATIONS great statesmen/stateswomen? If you believe in something, you put your ass on the line, not hide behind someone else's!

 

[Mac1958]

I don't know Mac, but I think it is sad state of affairs. All of us deserve better than this, and more accountability from our politicians. WHERE ARE OUR GENERATIONS great statesmen/stateswomen? If you believe in something, you put your ass on the line, not hide behind someone else's!

My guess is that our REAL Best & Brightest know to stay the **** out of POLITICS.


.

 

[impuretrash]

I don't know Mac, but I think it is sad state of affairs. All of us deserve better than this, and more accountability from our politicians. WHERE ARE OUR GENERATIONS great statesmen/stateswomen? If you believe in something, you put your ass on the line, not hide behind someone else's!

My guess is that our REAL Best & Brightest know to stay the **** out of POLITICS.


.

That's pretty much the lesson the establishment made loud and clear with Trump. NEVER challenge the status quo or your life will be ruined and you and everyone you've ever associated with might end up in prison on false charges.

 

[imawhosure]

I don't know Mac, but I think it is sad state of affairs. All of us deserve better than this, and more accountability from our politicians. WHERE ARE OUR GENERATIONS great statesmen/stateswomen? If you believe in something, you put your ass on the line, not hide behind someone else's!

My guess is that our REAL Best & Brightest know to stay the **** out of POLITICS.


.

Yeah, but in our current state, it is going to take our REAL Best & Brightest, to right the ship of state, and our country.

We BOTH know, that if things start down a bad path economically, or something bad happens, the light weights will seize the moment, and we WILL be Socialist. That can NOT be good, and I hope you agree.

In my humble opinion, should that happen, we have done a massive disservice to our children and grandchildren. We were at the wheel, and screwed the pooch, big time.

We were to busy, all of us, working, and not being proactive in our own government, AND political party's...….BOTH of them!

If it happens, depending upon how far it goes towards Socialism, those that come after us will either make an excuse for us, or curse our names. That is NOT a legacy we want to look down on, if you believe in the here after-(

 

[dblack]

As of the time I am writing this, it appears we have a choice in 2020, between Socialism, and Trump. I wish people like you had control over your party, at least we wouldn't be in such a do-or-die position.

That's been my plea lately. I'd love a reason to vote Democrat for President next time around. I think Trump is a genuine, existential threat to our nation. But I'm not going to vote for more socialism. I'm not asking them to go all libertarian and start repealing laws, just back off adding to the nanny state and stop trying to control every damned thing with government.

 

[task0778]

As of the time I am writing this, it appears we have a choice in 2020, between Socialism, and Trump. I wish people like you had control over your party, at least we wouldn't be in such a do-or-die position.

That's been my plea lately. I'd love a reason to vote Democrat for President next time around. I think Trump is a genuine, existential threat to our nation. But I'm not going to vote for more socialism. I'm not asking them to go all libertarian and start repealing laws, just back off adding every more nanny state shit and stop trying to control every damned thing with government.

Curious about why you think Trump is a genuine, existential threat to our nation. So I'm asking you for a new thread on this, not to derail this one. Spell out your reasons, and I'll see if I can respond.

 

[imawhosure]

I urge EVERY American to remember that---------->if you have children or grandchildren under 18, or if YOU have been alive during this Democratic transition to Socialism, this is on US! We allowed this to happen, or...………..it is our job, to prevent the American take over by Socialists. It can be NO OTHER way!

We allowed it. We have to stop it!

Democrats.....REAL Democrats, have to reclaim their party; and until they do, it is OUR CIVIC DUTY to insure, that in their present iteration, the Far Left does not gain control of our government.

Some of us may not like our choice, but it is the only thing standing between us, and unbridled SOCIALISM!

 

[dblack]

As of the time I am writing this, it appears we have a choice in 2020, between Socialism, and Trump. I wish people like you had control over your party, at least we wouldn't be in such a do-or-die position.

That's been my plea lately. I'd love a reason to vote Democrat for President next time around. I think Trump is a genuine, existential threat to our nation. But I'm not going to vote for more socialism. I'm not asking them to go all libertarian and start repealing laws, just back off adding every more nanny state shit and stop trying to control every damned thing with government.

Curious about why you think Trump is a genuine, existential threat to our nation. So I'm asking you for a new thread on this, not to derail this one. Spell out your reasons, and I'll see if I can respond.

No need for a thread. I think he's amoral and insane. He's utterly unpredictable and I don't trust him anywhere near "the button" (or any other position of authority). My experience has been that, if someone doesn't see that in him already, no amount of discussion will be productive.

 

[forkup]

I urge EVERY American to remember that---------->if you have children or grandchildren under 18, or if YOU have been alive during this Democratic transition to Socialism, this is on US! We allowed this to happen, or...………..it is our job, to prevent the American take over by Socialists. It can be NO OTHER way!

We allowed it. We have to stop it!

Democrats.....REAL Democrats, have to reclaim their party; and until they do, it is OUR CIVIC DUTY to insure, that in their present iteration, the Far Left does not gain control of our government.

Some of us may not like our choice, but it is the only thing standing between us, and unbridled SOCIALISM!

Define socialism? Do you mean the Social Democracies as practiced in Europe? Countries like Venezuela or Cuba? Or maybe the old Soviet Union?

 

[dudmuck]

I urge EVERY American to remember that---------->if you have children or grandchildren under 18, or if YOU have been alive during this Democratic transition to Socialism, this is on US! We allowed this to happen, or...………..it is our job, to prevent the American take over by Socialists. It can be NO OTHER way!

We allowed it. We have to stop it!

Democrats.....REAL Democrats, have to reclaim their party; and until they do, it is OUR CIVIC DUTY to insure, that in their present iteration, the Far Left does not gain control of our government.

Some of us may not like our choice, but it is the only thing standing between us, and unbridled SOCIALISM!

Actually, what you guys really hate is not socialism. You hate a more equal society.

Anything you dont like gets the label "socialism".

 

[forkup]

As of the time I am writing this, it appears we have a choice in 2020, between Socialism, and Trump. I wish people like you had control over your party, at least we wouldn't be in such a do-or-die position.

That's been my plea lately. I'd love a reason to vote Democrat for President next time around. I think Trump is a genuine, existential threat to our nation. But I'm not going to vote for more socialism. I'm not asking them to go all libertarian and start repealing laws, just back off adding every more nanny state shit and stop trying to control every damned thing with government.

Curious about why you think Trump is a genuine, existential threat to our nation. So I'm asking you for a new thread on this, not to derail this one. Spell out your reasons, and I'll see if I can respond.

I'll do it if you want.

 

[dblack]

Actually, what you guys really hate is not socialism. You hate a more equal society.

Nope. Just don't want government deciding how "equal" I am.