Zone1 What is Roman Catholicism ??

[Cougarbear]

What is the verse you believe which says all Apostles received the "keys to the kingdom" that Jesus explicitly gave to Peter?

Once again, you are unable to logically reason. Jesus said you are a slothful servant. In order to be an apostle, you must hold the keys of the kingdom. It’s what sets them apart from being just a disciple. “Foundation” requires keys or you cannot be the foundation. If one apostle dies, who is the foundation if not the next apostle up? John was the last. There were none after this. Linus and others were not apostles and therefore the foundation and the keys were lost. Pope means Holy Father and we know Popes are not Father in Heaven. Jesus said never to do this. Never call a man, leader of those who proclaim faith in Jesus Christ, Father. That’s a direct sign of apostasy:

 

[ding]

Once again, you are unable to logically reason. Jesus said you are a slothful servant. In order to be an apostle, you must hold the keys of the kingdom. It’s what sets them apart from being just a disciple. “Foundation” requires keys or you cannot be the foundation. If one apostle dies, who is the foundation if not the next apostle up? John was the last. There were none after this. Linus and others were not apostles and therefore the foundation and the keys were lost. Pope means Holy Father and we know Popes are not Father in Heaven. Jesus said never to do this. Never call a man, leader of those who proclaim faith in Jesus Christ, Father. That’s a direct sign of apostasy:

Cite the verse that says in order to be an apostle, you must hold the keys of the kingdom. Because LOGICALLY, Judas was an apostle and he never held the keys to the kingdom.

 

[ding]

you are unable to logically reason

Says the guy who logically reasoned Jesus stated everyone are gods.

 

[ding]

If one apostle dies, who is the foundation if not the next apostle up? John was the last. There were none after this. Linus and others were not apostles and therefore the foundation and the keys were lost.

According to your faith, John the apostle is still alive. And according to your logic, he still has the keys to the kingdom.

 

[zaangalewa]

Who cares?

I

 

[zaangalewa]

I'd like to ask you a question. What does the word "apostle" mean to Catholics? How is it defined and used? I ask because I keep hearing Catholics try to trace the organization of the RCC to Peter. That Peter wanted Linus to become the head of the Church after his death instead of one of the remaining apostles like Paul or John. Did John apostatize or did Paul apostatize? Also, I hear Catholics say Peter was the first pope. No, he was the senior apostle.

In the first "meeting" of the Christian church everyone listenend to his decision about this what Paulus did say. Peter was a very “strong” equal among equals. More like a rock on which the church was founded. When Peter said "Yes" to the inspirations of Paulus after long discussions everything was clear for everyone.

Also when once the women came and told "the grave is empty" it was Peter who accepted this testimony of "only" women. Because he was sure they had been right also everyone else had been sure they had been right. I don't think it is so easy to say "Catholics are anyway also always wrong - otherwise I on my own would not be right". Peter was more than only older than the others. By the way: Was he really older than all the others? If you say his authority based on his age then you should know this. Do you know this? I say this only as a hint for you that you possibly could be wrong and Peter had been indeed the first Pope.

Jesus never called his position a pope.

He called him "rock" ... hmmm ... Should we give our Holy Father a Harley Davidson and a motorcycle chain instead of a popemobile and rosaries?

Maybe you can clear some of this up.

Take the name "Leo XIV" as an example. Why did the Holy Father choose this name? It's not "Peter", isn't it? But it represents a spirit which came once from Peter.

 

[zaangalewa]

Peter was never a Pope. Pope means "Holy Father." We have one Holy Father and it ain't any Pope! Matthew 23:9, Jesus Commands "And call no MAN your FATHER on earth, of Ones your FATHER, who is in HEAVEN." Is that clear enough? Peter was an apostle and prophet of God. Period! He led the Church until his death. Another apostle took his place, not some bishop Linus of Peanuts. It would have been James or John most likely. Paul came along later and was behind others in seniority. That's how the Lord chooses his apostle to lead.

Do you call your father father? When in the bible is written not to call the own father father but only the father in heaven "father" then this not means not to call your father father. The expression "holy father" reminds us to this what is important. Father not only means biological father - it also means spiritual father. The bible speaks in pictures and colors. Is red true is yellow false? You have to read with your heart. Okay okay, I know. The heart is only a biological machine pumping blood. I am an idiot to say so. You should read with your ... ¿damn what was the name? ... with your oxytocin ... ... ... Good grief ... sounds dangerous this word ... Try to read with your heart. Sounds better.

 

[zaangalewa]

Not all. Paul was clear there are different levels of resurrection and glory in the resurrection. Read 1Corinthians chapter 15.

Eh? What for heavens sake do you read in this chapter? Paulus explains something - that's all.

 

[zaangalewa]

God is a loving a loving and forgiving God. All who believe in him shall receive what he provides.

Exactly. Don't let yourself be unsettled.



Gott lass mein Gedanken sich sammeln zu Dir. Bei Dir ist das Licht. Du vergißt mich nicht. Bei Dir ist die Liebe, bei Dir ist die Geduld. Ich verstehe deine Wege nicht. Aber Du weist den Weg für mich.



God, let my thoughts gather to you. With you is the light. You do not forget me. With you is love, with you is patience. I do not understand your ways. But You show the way for me.

 

[dudmuck]

My question is what is Roman Cathollicism ? I use to hear that it was a cult.?/!

Roman Catholics starts with Saint Augustine of Hippo. He applied deductive reasoning and philosophy to divine matters. While such talents are useful in the world of men, sometimes its not, such as matters of the divine.

 

[Cougarbear]

Cite the verse that says in order to be an apostle, you must hold the keys of the kingdom. Because LOGICALLY, Judas was an apostle and he never held the keys to the kingdom.

Yes, Judas did hold keys of the Kingdom. You just know what that means. In the Bible, specifically in Matthew 16:19, holding the "keys of the kingdom" symbolizes the authority to govern and make binding decisions in spiritual matters. It represents the power to either admit or exclude people from the kingdom of God, which is the realm of God's rule and influence. The Power of the Keys, also known as the Office of the Keys, is a responsibility given to Peter to usher in the Kingdom of God on the Day of Pentecost, and a responsibility given to the other apostles by Jesus, according to Matthew 16:19 and Matthew 18:18. Now, others are appointed with keys as well. Bishops over their various church. But, they only have authority or keys over their church. Peter had keys over all the church and in fact, the world after Jesus passed away. If he were to misuse them, he could lose them as well. Like Judas did. But, the apostles that were left, including new ones called, like Paul, were conferred keys of the kingdom on them too until there were no ones left holding the keys when John disappeared. No more apostles. Apostasy.

 

[Cougarbear]

Says the guy who logically reasoned Jesus stated everyone are gods.

I didn't say it. Jesus said it. Do you have a reading problem. Jesus said, did In not tell you that ye are gods also? The words are there. Jehovah and the Father said in Genesis, man has become like US! Jesus even said we could end up joint heirs of our Father's kingdom.

 

[Cougarbear]

According to your faith, John the apostle is still alive. And according to your logic, he still has the keys to the kingdom.

He does. Accept, he is not the senior apostle in the Lord's Church today. But, as the other 14 after President Nelson, also have keys too. There are apostles and then there is a quorum of 12 apostles. The first Presidency has currently 3 apostles that makes 15. John would make 16 if he presented himself. But, he has a specific mission as do the 3 Nephites from the ancient Americas who are also transliterated and walking the earth as well.

 

[Cougarbear]

In the first "meeting" of the Christian church everyone listenend to his decision about this what Paulus did say. Peter was a very “strong” equal among equals. More like a rock on which the church was founded. When Peter said "Yes" to the inspirations of Paulus after long discussions everything was clear for everyone.

Also when once the women came and told "the grave is empty" it was Peter who accepted this testimony of "only" women. Because he was sure they had been right also everyone else had been sure they had been right. I don't think it is so easy to say "Catholics are anyway also always wrong - otherwise I on my own would not be right". Peter was more than only older than the others. By the way: Was he really older than all the others? If you say his authority based on his age then you should know this. Do you know this? I say this only as a hint for you that you possibly could be wrong and Peter had been indeed the first Pope.



He called him "rock" ... hmmm ... Should we give our Holy Father a Harley Davidson and a motorcycle chain instead of a popemobile and rosaries?



Take the name "Leo XIV" as an example. Why did the Holy Father choose this name? It's not "Peter", isn't it? But it represents a spirit which came once from Peter.

Pure nonsense. Not biblical either. Jesus said never call anyone else Father. Yet, you call Leo, Father by calling him Pope. Just like a child who's mom tells him not to touch the stove so the child does so anyway.

 

[Crepitus]

My question is what is Roman Cathollicism ? I use to hear that it was a cult.?/!

all religions are cults.

 

[Cougarbear]

Do you call your father father? When in the bible is written not to call the own father father but only the father in heaven "father" then this not means not to call your father father. The expression "holy father" reminds us to this what is important. Father not only means biological father - it also means spiritual father. The bible speaks in pictures and colors. Is red true is yellow false? You have to read with your heart. Okay okay, I know. The heart is only a biological machine pumping blood. I am an idiot to say so. You should read with your ... ¿damn what was the name? ... with your oxytocin ... ... ... Good grief ... sounds dangerous this word ... Try to read with your heart. Sounds better.

My earthly father is not a holy man or holy father. I actually called him dad. If you can't understand why Jesus strongly stated DON'T CALL ANYONE FATHER he is referring to the faithful to their leaders. Uggg...

 

[Cougarbear]

Eh? What for heavens sake do you read in this chapter? Paulus explains something - that's all.

1Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Our bodies will be raised to incorruption in the resurrection. One's body in the glory of the stars (let's call Telestial) cannot abide in the realm of Terrestrial. The body of those raised to the glory of Terrestrial will not be able to abide in the glory of Celestial. Each will have their mansion or kingdom or heaven or world to live on. The highest or 3rd heaven that Paul spoke on seeing in a vision would be the Celestial heaven of glory. It's imperative to know what it takes to be in the Celestial heaven of glory or we won't be there. So, does your church teach you how to get to the 3rd part of heaven, Celestial?

 

[zaangalewa]

Pure nonsense.

Aha.

Not biblical either.

Dear friend - in my words: "I am the bible". My ancestors had been Jews and Catholics.

Jesus said never call anyone else Father.

So you never called your father father - specially before you had been able to read the bible which was written from my people? I tell you what I read: Do not call your [biological] father your [spiritual] father because only god is your [spiritual] father. And believe it or not: Leo XIV is not my father - but he is the Holy Father of about 1½ billion Catholics who are all together idiots because your mother feeded you with the spoon of wisdom.

Yet, you call Leo, Father by calling him Pope. Just like a child who's mom tells him not to touch the stove so the child does so anyway.

I'm sure some Catholics call Leo XIV "Bob". But I'm not sure whether they know the Bobfahrerlied (Bobsledding song). Do you know, Mr. Know Allmighty?

 

[zaangalewa]

all religions are cults.

Specially your religion atheism? From which point of view do you say so? What is your own position? Not to be encultured and civilized is by the way one of the worst problems of your president Donald Trump and the cult all around this atheist. Donald Trump is a problem for the USA - and I do not think Leo XIV is the solution but Leo XIV is a man who is able to give orientation in times of desorientation and desinformation. Perhaps he is even able to help you personally to become a [part of a] solution and not to stay to be a [part of a] problem on your own.

 

[zaangalewa]

1Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Our bodies will be raised to incorruption in the resurrection. One's body in the glory of the stars (let's call Telestial) cannot abide in the realm of Terrestrial. The body of those raised to the glory of Terrestrial will not be able to abide in the glory of Celestial. Each will have their mansion or kingdom or heaven or world to live on. The highest or 3rd heaven that Paul spoke on seeing in a vision would be the Celestial heaven of glory. It's imperative to know what it takes to be in the Celestial heaven of glory or we won't be there. So, does your church teach you how to get to the 3rd part of heaven, Celestial?

Eh? Do you understand what you say here? Is it good for anything what you say here except to put others down? And why do you leather the bible so lovelessly and smear it around? And if you like to know what "my church" teaches - I call it "the church" - then read our books which we wrote in the last few thousand years - or ask someone if you have a problem. But never try to be a problem for people who are in love with god and all of his children and his whole creation.