What is Race, anyway?

[JimBowie1958]

Seriously, is it all about skin color? If so, I have seen a lot of whites that are darker than many blacks, Orientals lighter than whites and others of that group darker than blacks. Dravidians are caucasian, by many racial classifications, but the theories vary as to how many races there actually are, with Polynesians and Amerindians being mentioned by some as seperate races.

When a person tries to classify things into groups on a rational basis, it is important to show that the defining characteristics legitimately draw clear distinctions between the classifications. It should have less variation within the classification and greater variation between its members and the members of other classifications. It also should be a useful classification.

If one were to classify cars by the color of their paint-job instead of their make and model, it would be realized from the start that it would be absurd for almost any practical situation.

And yet we look at the shades of skin color that exist in all races and it becomes plain that race is not a valid classification biologically since the variations between races is less than the variation within races.

Skin color does not give us the variation between classifications that exists within racial classifications, as noted above. In fact no biological factor has the needed variability regarding race.

The only reason we cling to these out-dated notions is because the government forces us to due to the group oriented nature of Identity politics and ideology.

Is'nt it time we moved on from these silly concepts that were spawned by the accident of history that Europeans got to the Industrial Revolution first?

Hasnt there been enough hate and blood spilled over this bullshit enough already?

 

[Amelia]

"Race" is an anagram of "care".

 

[Zander]

Race is a political tool for Democrats, despots, and Dictators.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Race is a political tool for Democrats, despots, and Dictators.

Well, that is a bit cynical and focused primarily on how it is used today.

Historically it was a broadening of a term that essentially meant 'ethnicity'. I remember reading Ben Franklin asserting that Germans were a non-white race that would ruin the blood of American citizenry.

I think it came to mean what we take it to mean today as a part of a rationalization for Europe's dominance over the rest of the globe in the late 1800's. It was also a useful tool for progressives to advance workers interests by asserting something along the lines of 'We may not be blue bloods, but at least we are white.' That sort of thing.

 

[IanC]

race is determined by the genetic inheritance of groups of related alleles that were a response to environmental conditions in the continental origins.

skin colour is an outward signal of race, not a cause.

 

[Tank]

If so, I have seen a lot of whites that are darker than many blacks, Orientals lighter than whites and others of that group darker than blacks.

I would like to see some pictures of this

 

[Rat in the Hat]

If so, I have seen a lot of whites that are darker than many blacks, Orientals lighter than whites and others of that group darker than blacks.

I would like to see some pictures of this

He'll be back to post them when he finishes his trip to Fantasy island.

 

[Amelia]

What world do you guys live in that you laugh at someone who says that there are "whites" with darker skin than some people of other ethnicities? as if you haven't met anyone like that?


My family comes from very dark European stock. Dark-skinned Germans and dark-skinned French.


As a young veteran medic in the late 50's my father applied for a job at an Indian (native American) hospital in Oklahoma. During the interview his would-be boss said they had been having trouble finding qualified people of native American descent and so he was glad my father had applied. It was then that my father learned that the job was only for native Americans. The hospital administrator hadn't even thought to ask my father's ethnicity because he was so dark and was also blessed with, er, 'strong' facial features.

In one small Texas town after one night of too much fun he was arrested for public drunk. When they found out he was white and not Mexican they let him go. But apparently my folks decided that between the prejudice and the arrest we were not likely to do well in that town, so we moved away only three months after we got there.

On another occasion, a Jewish man walked up to him and started talking Yiddish to him.



In other words, my dad is about the most ethnic looking white guy you could ever meet and it's coz he was 3/8 German and 1/8 French Canadian.

I have a nice olive tone. With a little boost from the sun, I was easily darker than most of my companions growing up. And without even needing any sunshine, I was easily darker than many Asians whom I met in grad school.



But you've never seen anyone like that? Sure.

 

[High_Gravity]

If so, I have seen a lot of whites that are darker than many blacks, Orientals lighter than whites and others of that group darker than blacks.

I would like to see some pictures of this

Its not impossible, some Italians and Sicilians can be dark complected.

 

[Unkotare]

It is a term stupid people use when they really mean 'culture,' and a term cowards use to hide beind because they fear pretty much everything.

 

[JimBowie1958]

If so, I have seen a lot of whites that are darker than many blacks, Orientals lighter than whites and others of that group darker than blacks.

I would like to see some pictures of this

He'll be back to post them when he finishes his trip to Fantasy island.

Dravidians are classified as white and some are quite dark complected to the point that they can easily pass for black here in the US and some do to get afirmative action benefits.

dravidian pictures - Google Search

Here are some photos of blacks who are so light complected that they can and some of them do pass for white.

black pass for white - Google Search

 

[Tank]

Why do liberals say "celebrate diversity" and the tell us we are all the same?

 

[William Joyce]

race is determined by the genetic inheritance of groups of related alleles that were a response to environmental conditions in the continental origins.

skin colour is an outward signal of race, not a cause.

Correct.

But because some were winners and some were losers in this race, it would be too hurtful to talk about. "We is all be equal 'n shit". Yo.

 

[JimBowie1958]

race is determined by the genetic inheritance of groups of related alleles that were a response to environmental conditions in the continental origins.

skin colour is an outward signal of race, not a cause.

Correct.

But because some were winners and some were losers in this race, it would be too hurtful to talk about. "We is all be equal 'n shit". Yo.

Some whites have done better in life than some nonwhites and some have done worse.

The point is that race is not an indicator on a global scale of how successful one will be or can be. The blacks I have met in France and Germany were a hell of a lot smarter than many whites I have known in the US.

If we simply dropped the racial categories the issues surrounding why some fail and other excel could be discussed more reasonably and things done to give real help to those less advantaged, lol, than the rest of us.

 

[percysunshine]

I have more in common with a Kenyan than a Lassa Opsa has in common with a Poodle.

(Ok, I plagiarized that from P.J. O'Rourke.)

 

[IanC]

race is determined by the genetic inheritance of groups of related alleles that were a response to environmental conditions in the continental origins.

skin colour is an outward signal of race, not a cause.

Correct.

But because some were winners and some were losers in this race, it would be too hurtful to talk about. "We is all be equal 'n shit". Yo.

Some whites have done better in life than some nonwhites and some have done worse.

The point is that race is not an indicator on a global scale of how successful one will be or can be. The blacks I have met in France and Germany were a hell of a lot smarter than many whites I have known in the US.

If we simply dropped the racial categories the issues surrounding why some fail and other excel could be discussed more reasonably and things done to give real help to those less advantaged, lol, than the rest of us.

do you guys honestly believe there is no difference in average intelligence between races? after all the studying and all the data collected? I can understand arguing the causes of the difference but not denying that there is a difference. there is way more proof of racial differences and the reasons for it than for global warming and the reasons for that. yet both problems are driven by ideology rather than logic.

 

[code1211]

Correct.

But because some were winners and some were losers in this race, it would be too hurtful to talk about. "We is all be equal 'n shit". Yo.

Some whites have done better in life than some nonwhites and some have done worse.

The point is that race is not an indicator on a global scale of how successful one will be or can be. The blacks I have met in France and Germany were a hell of a lot smarter than many whites I have known in the US.

If we simply dropped the racial categories the issues surrounding why some fail and other excel could be discussed more reasonably and things done to give real help to those less advantaged, lol, than the rest of us.

do you guys honestly believe there is no difference in average intelligence between races? after all the studying and all the data collected? I can understand arguing the causes of the difference but not denying that there is a difference. there is way more proof of racial differences and the reasons for it than for global warming and the reasons for that. yet both problems are driven by ideology rather than logic.

How would this expose itself on a graph of relative IQ's from black to white?

Perhaps a bell curve looking thing with white and black on the low ends and light-brown Asians in the middle. (?). Of course, there are the Arabs who dicovered Zero and stuck with that through today producing a net Zero ever since. This would flatten the bell a tad.

The Manhatten Project boys and Hawking might jump the "white" end up. Genius is not just in the sciences, though, and the work of Blacks in the creative arts has produced some very respectable accounts. The Black end must be rising up, too.

All of this Irish and Scandanavian blood coursing through my little pea brain is just mucking things up. From everything I've heard and read, the Whites are supposed to be the best and the brightest and yet the other races just won't conform to the Truth of the situation.

I guess that shows that Whites are superior. We know that we're the top and the other races just can't figure it out.

We could do a study to prove this if the Chinese would just lend us some money to fund it.

 

[IanC]

I'm not sure that looking at the tails of the curve is the most meaningful place to look.

the Armed Forces gives everyone an IQ-type test. they also test proficiency in many areas. there is a direct positive relationship between intelligence and performance. the AF has a cuttoff of about IQ90 which disqualifies more than half of blacks and about a third of whites. thats why there are less racial disparities in the Armed Forces, they are prescreened for intelligence. once on purpose in the Vietnam era and once accidentally in the 90's, recruits were let in under the cutoff with dismal results. the proficiency testing in many areas has been especially useful because it has been broken down into such small and basic components that it is a simple pass/fail mark rather than a supervisor's opinion. this has taken racism out of the testing but not racial disparity out of the results. simply put- the average black IQ tends to bunch up in the low-to-mid 90's and the white IQ tends to bunch up around 105. and whites end up with more technologically difficult jobs and higher proficiency rankings.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I have more in common with a Kenyan than a Lassa Opsa has in common with a Poodle.

(Ok, I plagiarized that from P.J. O'Rourke.)

American whites have more in common with American blacks than American whites have with whites in the Czech Republic when one considers culture, religion and ways of thinking.

Culture counts for far more than does race when trying to understand behavior and preferences.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I'm not sure that looking at the tails of the curve is the most meaningful place to look.

the Armed Forces gives everyone an IQ-type test. they also test proficiency in many areas. there is a direct positive relationship between intelligence and performance. the AF has a cuttoff of about IQ90 which disqualifies more than half of blacks and about a third of whites. thats why there are less racial disparities in the Armed Forces, they are prescreened for intelligence. once on purpose in the Vietnam era and once accidentally in the 90's, recruits were let in under the cutoff with dismal results. the proficiency testing in many areas has been especially useful because it has been broken down into such small and basic components that it is a simple pass/fail mark rather than a supervisor's opinion. this has taken racism out of the testing but not racial disparity out of the results. simply put- the average black IQ tends to bunch up in the low-to-mid 90's and the white IQ tends to bunch up around 105. and whites end up with more technologically difficult jobs and higher proficiency rankings.

I was trying to compare blacks from different cultures to blacks in the US in order to look at the potential for blacks as a race. I dont think that black culture in the US is rewarding academic acheivers as other black cultures do elsewhere around the world.

Dont know why that is, but for the last twenty years I have heard one anecdotal story after another of smart young blacks hiding their intelligence by underperforming, or getting beat up for 'acting white' because they did well in school, etc. Then their is this whole bad boy rap image thing that is pushed on blacks by entertainment media.

Not being an American black, I can only guess about what the influences might be, but seeing how well blacks do in other countries that dont suffer from the situation here suggests that there are other factors than merely racial genetics.