What is more important: keeping the government running or funding obamacare?

[Immanuel]

I really wouldn't care if both were shut down personally though I want Obamacare funded and see it go into effect not because i love it but because I think it will be a major train wreck and if that is the case it will be one owned lock, stock and barrel by the Democrats.

That they will blame on conservatives and use to further their cause of bringing government controled (single-payer) healthcare to reality.

It is the plan that has long been set in motion.

Immie

 

[hortysir]

Actually the democrats are happy to pass the house bill in the senate....Just with the amendment to fund the ACA in it

It's the Republicans who are saying "defund Obamacare or we shut down the government!" This will be seen when the house bill PASSES in the senate and is contested in the house since it funds ACA.

Check out any polls, the public sees what the GOP is doing. If the senate agrees to the house bill, just with an amendment to fund ACA, then it's the GOP holding the usa hostage.

Then what happens is it bounces back to the House, where it won't pass.
The Senate knows this.
The bill will die.
Then what?

Of course the Senate's proposal is to continue spending, at an increase over the previous year, and think everything will be fine.
It's not.

No business can lose a good portion of its workforce, have a drop in demand for its goods and continue to spend money on cosmetic upgrades

 

[ron4342]

the bill passed the house idiot. do you not know how a bill becomes law?

Like Pat Toomey said yesterday, the House has to understand that when you only control 1 of the three parts of the government,

you don't control the government.

checks and balance

checks and balance

learn it, embrace it, don't like it, move

Hummmm.... "checks and balances" Hummm..... This from a person who believe that democracy consists of the minority controlling the majority. Here is a thought for you yurt: The Debt Ceiling has been raised without problem dozens of times by presidents of BOTH parties. Not once (Let me repeat that: NOT ONCE) has any party before the current republican party tried to tie the Debt Ceiling to their political agenda. Or to put it another way, NOT ONCE, until now, has either party used the Debt Ceiling vote to hold the US hostage. NOT ONCE. So, don't give us that crap about the republicans being willing to be reasonable and to negoiate. The are behaving like small children who are willing to take America down if they don't get their way.

 

[Yurt]

Like Pat Toomey said yesterday, the House has to understand that when you only control 1 of the three parts of the government,

you don't control the government.

checks and balance

checks and balance

learn it, embrace it, don't like it, move

Hummmm.... "checks and balances" Hummm..... This from a person who believe that democracy consists of the minority controlling the majority. Here is a thought for you yurt: The Debt Ceiling has been raised without problem dozens of times by presidents of BOTH parties. Not once (Let me repeat that: NOT ONCE) has any party before the current republican party tried to tie the Debt Ceiling to their political agenda. Or to put it another way, NOT ONCE, until now, has either party used the Debt Ceiling vote to hold the US hostage. NOT ONCE. So, don't give us that crap about the republicans being willing to be reasonable and to negoiate. The are behaving like small children who are willing to take America down if they don't get their way.

did i say a democracy consists of the minority controlling the majority? NO, never said it, stop putting words in my mouth.

i don't care if has never been done before, it should have. the debt ceiling is out of control and both parties should have reigned in long before now. don't forget what obama once said about raising the debt ceiling:

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

 

[ron4342]

Frankly it should be clear to anyone with a brain that the republicans are God's curse on the world. I am not surprised that yurt does not understand this simple fact.

 

[Yurt]

Actually the democrats are happy to pass the house bill in the senate....Just with the amendment to fund the ACA in it

It's the Republicans who are saying "defund Obamacare or we shut down the government!" This will be seen when the house bill PASSES in the senate and is contested in the house since it funds ACA.

Check out any polls, the public sees what the GOP is doing. If the senate agrees to the house bill, just with an amendment to fund ACA, then it's the GOP holding the usa hostage.

so you libs want to hold all other spending hostage simply because you're pouting about one little program

No, it's the GOP doing the hostage taking, they won't fund the government unless ACA is shut down...the Dems are agreeing to their budget proposal (even parts they don't approve of like sequester cuts) they just don't want the budget to shut down ACA.

The GOP gets sequester cuts, the Dems get ACA. If the GOP demands more it's on their own peril.

the pubs are agreeing to the budget proposal, they just want to shut down ACA.

see how easy that is....the dems are the hostage takers...

 

[Nyvin]

Actually the democrats are happy to pass the house bill in the senate....Just with the amendment to fund the ACA in it

It's the Republicans who are saying "defund Obamacare or we shut down the government!" This will be seen when the house bill PASSES in the senate and is contested in the house since it funds ACA.

Check out any polls, the public sees what the GOP is doing. If the senate agrees to the house bill, just with an amendment to fund ACA, then it's the GOP holding the usa hostage.

Then what happens is it bounces back to the House, where it won't pass.
The Senate knows this.
The bill will die.
Then what?

Of course the Senate's proposal is to continue spending, at an increase over the previous year, and think everything will be fine.
It's not.

No business can lose a good portion of its workforce, have a drop in demand for its goods and continue to spend money on cosmetic upgrades

Uhh...first off the federal budget has been going DOWN for the last few years, not up. In 2013 it was 3.8T, in 2014 it's expected to be 3.77T. That's lesser then, not greater then.

If the house refuses to pass THEIR OWN BILL just with an amendment to include ACA then it's going to be well known that the House is unrelenting on their demand to shut down ACA, even taking it to funding for the federal government for the next year.

That...in essence...is hostage taking in every sense of the word. The house can't block their own bill and say they want to fund the government.

 

[Yurt]

Frankly it should be clear to anyone with a brain that the republicans are God's curse on the world. I am not surprised that yurt does not understand this simple fact.

curse....

go away troll

 

[Nyvin]

checks and balance

checks and balance

learn it, embrace it, don't like it, move

Hummmm.... "checks and balances" Hummm..... This from a person who believe that democracy consists of the minority controlling the majority. Here is a thought for you yurt: The Debt Ceiling has been raised without problem dozens of times by presidents of BOTH parties. Not once (Let me repeat that: NOT ONCE) has any party before the current republican party tried to tie the Debt Ceiling to their political agenda. Or to put it another way, NOT ONCE, until now, has either party used the Debt Ceiling vote to hold the US hostage. NOT ONCE. So, don't give us that crap about the republicans being willing to be reasonable and to negoiate. The are behaving like small children who are willing to take America down if they don't get their way.

did i say a democracy consists of the minority controlling the majority? NO, never said it, stop putting words in my mouth.

i don't care if has never been done before, it should have. the debt ceiling is out of control and both parties should have reigned in long before now. don't forget what obama once said about raising the debt ceiling:

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

The deficit has been shrinking at the fastest rate since right after the end of WW2....WHAT MORE DO YOU POSSIBLY WANT???

 

[Yurt]

Actually the democrats are happy to pass the house bill in the senate....Just with the amendment to fund the ACA in it

It's the Republicans who are saying "defund Obamacare or we shut down the government!" This will be seen when the house bill PASSES in the senate and is contested in the house since it funds ACA.

Check out any polls, the public sees what the GOP is doing. If the senate agrees to the house bill, just with an amendment to fund ACA, then it's the GOP holding the usa hostage.

Then what happens is it bounces back to the House, where it won't pass.
The Senate knows this.
The bill will die.
Then what?

Of course the Senate's proposal is to continue spending, at an increase over the previous year, and think everything will be fine.
It's not.

No business can lose a good portion of its workforce, have a drop in demand for its goods and continue to spend money on cosmetic upgrades

Uhh...first off the federal budget has been going DOWN for the last few years, not up. In 2013 it was 3.8T, in 2014 it's expected to be 3.77T. That's lesser then, not greater then.

If the house refuses to pass THEIR OWN BILL just with an amendment to include ACA then it's going to be well known that the House is unrelenting on their demand to shut down ACA, even taking it to funding for the federal government for the next year.

That...in essence...is hostage taking in every sense of the word. The house can't block their own bill and say they want to fund the government.

this is how nutty you sound...

the house pubs give the dems everything except one program

the dems won't give the house pubs anything

and yet you think the pubs are the hostage takers

 

[bendog]

It's perfectly rationale to shut down the govt over a program the gop lacks the votes to repeal.

 

[hortysir]

Actually the democrats are happy to pass the house bill in the senate....Just with the amendment to fund the ACA in it

It's the Republicans who are saying "defund Obamacare or we shut down the government!" This will be seen when the house bill PASSES in the senate and is contested in the house since it funds ACA.

Check out any polls, the public sees what the GOP is doing. If the senate agrees to the house bill, just with an amendment to fund ACA, then it's the GOP holding the usa hostage.

Then what happens is it bounces back to the House, where it won't pass.
The Senate knows this.
The bill will die.
Then what?

Of course the Senate's proposal is to continue spending, at an increase over the previous year, and think everything will be fine.
It's not.

No business can lose a good portion of its workforce, have a drop in demand for its goods and continue to spend money on cosmetic upgrades

Uhh...first off the federal budget has been going DOWN for the last few years, not up. In 2013 it was 3.8T, in 2014 it's expected to be 3.77T. That's lesser then, not greater then.

If the house refuses to pass THEIR OWN BILL just with an amendment to include ACA then it's going to be well known that the House is unrelenting on their demand to shut down ACA, even taking it to funding for the federal government for the next year.

That...in essence...is hostage taking in every sense of the word. The house can't block their own bill and say they want to fund the government.

I'm sorry

The WHAT?

 

[Nyvin]

this is how nutty you sound...

the house pubs give the dems everything except one program

the dems won't give the house pubs anything

and yet you think the pubs are the hostage takers

LOL!!!!

"Everything they want"????????

Serious??? The Dems would LOVE to make their own budget, namely stop a lot of the sequetration cuts because a lot of them are really damaging. Saying the pubs give the dems everything is so delusional it's hard to take that seriously.

 

[Yurt]

It's perfectly rationale to shut down the govt over a program the gop lacks the votes to repeal.

it's perfectly rational to shut down the government over one program that the dems lack the votes to uphold.

 

[Yurt]

LOL!!!!

"Everything they want"????????

Serious??? The Dems would LOVE to make their own budget, namely stop a lot of the sequetration cuts because a lot of them are really damaging. Saying the pubs give the dems everything is so delusional it's hard to take that seriously.

cite what the dems didn't get

 

[Nyvin]

It's perfectly rationale to shut down the govt over a program the gop lacks the votes to repeal.

it's perfectly rational to shut down the government over one program that the dems lack the votes to uphold.

you don't need votes to uphold...

 

[Nyvin]

cite what the dems didn't get

Delaying or stopping a lot of sequestration cuts, or at least a long term alternative.

What will probably happen though is the Senate sends back the CR with ACA being funded, the house passes that with a mixed majority of like 40% dem votes and 60% repub votes...and the CR passes with ACA intact.

That or the Republicans as a whole (ie not just tea partiers) really are stupid enough to force a shut down and they'll feel the pain of that decision in the 2014 elections.

 

[Redfish]

false choice.

the government can be kept running and obamacare can be unfunded. Its not one or the other.

 

[Camp]

It's perfectly rationale to shut down the govt over a program the gop lacks the votes to repeal.

it's perfectly rational to shut down the government over one program that the dems lack the votes to uphold.

They do have the votes to uphold even if your silly concept were to be taken seriously. They have the votes in the Senate and the House doesn't have enough votes to overide a veto.

 

[Redfish]

It's perfectly rationale to shut down the govt over a program the gop lacks the votes to repeal.

it's perfectly rational to shut down the government over one program that the dems lack the votes to uphold.

They do have the votes to uphold even if your silly concept were to be taken seriously. They have the votes in the Senate and the House doesn't have enough votes to overide a veto.

obama has already violated the law by delaying the employer mandate, why not do another violation and delay the individual mandate? give congress some time to fix this terrible piece of legislation.

But they won't because to do that would require the dems to admit that the bill they passed was a piece of moldy dog shit.