What if the universe is infinite in every direction, macro and micro?

[toobfreak]

What if the universe is infinite in every direction, macro and micro?​

Actually, it almost certainly has to be, at least in terms of distance, since by definition, there can be no "boundary" to space (like a wall) because that would just be creating more space. Instead, space curves infinitely in around itself.

We usually think of the universe as infinite in space. Galaxies receding endlessly, stars stretching beyond our sight. But what if that infinity exists at the micro level too? What if there’s no bottom, no smallest scale, just as there may be no top?

Unprovable and moot since at some point, you must travel to smaller, shorter levels than your measuring instrument is to prove that. My guess is that at some point, as you go small enough or large enough, you transition to some other dimension into a whole new universe.

Imagine every galaxy we see is the size of an electron in another universe. And every electron in our world could be an entire galaxy in a cosmos we’ll never reach. Boundaries vanish.

Actually that is a very old idea and was the basis of a crazy person's theory whom I once studied as a case in psychology.

 

[toobfreak]

The question is is the Universe a bubble, filled with matter, but outside that bubble is nothing.
Or, is there some emptiness that the expanding Universe is filling.

Well, let's not forget that matter is just along for the ride. At the very least, 75% of what the universe is filled with isn't even matter.

And according to current thought, the universe can neither be a bubble outside of which is nothing nor can there be some emptiness/void with which the universe is filling, like pouring gas in a container.

Both imply an absolute static volume of space (container) which exists before and despite there being or not being a "universe" to fill it will. A better way of thinking of it is that space is not something filled up but created. Space itself expands outward which becomes the universe.

But I'm at the point now of throwing space out. Space and matter are integrally tied together as the same thing within a matrix of time. Time is the thing. We do not live in 3 dimensions of space but instead a coordinate system of time.

There can be no space without time because space is really just a measure of time.

It is impossible to exist in or travel within space without also traveling in time. Coordinates in space are really just coordinates in time.

 

[toobfreak]

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Actually, that model of the atom is all wrong and in practice, is completely flawed and doesn't exist. The atom is a complex set of fields, not a tiny solar system.

 

[SaxonJackson]

We usually think of the universe as infinite in space. Galaxies receding endlessly, stars stretching beyond our sight. But what if that infinity exists at the micro level too? What if there’s no bottom, no smallest scale, just as there may be no top?

Imagine every galaxy we see is the size of an electron in another universe. And every electron in our world could be an entire galaxy in a cosmos we’ll never reach. Boundaries vanish. Space and time become fractal, repeating endlessly, with their own rules at each level. Physics gives us limits; Planck length, quantum discreteness, but maybe those are just local laws. Somewhere else, somewhere smaller or larger, reality could obey entirely different rules, endlessly.

In this scenario, infinity isn’t abstract; it’s layered, recursive, and tangible. No beginnings, no ends, just scale upon scale, each real to whatever consciousness perceives it. Reality might not be a container at all. It could be a mirror facing mirrors, reflecting universes within universes, forever.

Infinite regress at micro and macro levels would mean there’s no ultimate base reality, just nested realities, each as real as the one we occupy.

A fractal is the physical reflection or representation of "micro infinity."

 

[toobfreak]

No we don't. The Universe is expanding, thus it has a defined border, and thus it can't be "infinite". The question is what is it expanding in to.

Maybe it is expanding into the chronosynclastic infindibulum.

OK, let's try this: how do we measure the expansion of space? To date, we can only measure it by the expanding space between galaxies as implied through doppler light shifting. So the question then is space itself really getting larger? Or is the universe itself getting bigger along with it?

 

[sparky]

Actually, that model of the atom is all wrong and in practice, is completely flawed and doesn't exist. The atom is a complex set of fields, not a tiny solar system.

I'd be the last to know Toob......~S~

 

[Anomalism]

Unprovable and moot

True. That's okay though. It was just an idea.

My guess is that at some point, as you go small enough or large enough, you transition to some other dimension into a whole new universe.

That's pretty close to what I was thinking.

Actually that is a very old idea and was the basis of a crazy person's theory whom I once studied as a case in psychology.

Uh oh. Maybe I'm a crazy person.

 

[Hafar1014]

True. That's okay though. It was just an idea.



That's pretty close to what I was thinking.



Uh oh. Maybe I'm a crazy person.

Not crazy just obsessed with minutia.

 

[Anomalism]

Actually, that model of the atom is all wrong and in practice, is completely flawed and doesn't exist. The atom is a complex set of fields, not a tiny solar system.

Oh what a buzz kill. He was just vibing with the thread. Leave him be. Lol

 

[Anomalism]

A fractal is the physical reflection or representation of "micro infinity."

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Purty.

 

[Anomalism]

I'd be the last to know Toob......~S~

Ignore that grumpy buzz kill. I appreciate your participation in the thread.

 

[Anomalism]

Not crazy just obsessed with minutia.

I'm glad I always have you along for the ride. Lol

 

[Hafar1014]

I'm glad I always have you along for the ride. Lol

Try choosing a real topic that makes sense

 

[Anomalism]

Try choosing a real topic that makes sense

The topic makes sense to me.

 

[sparky]

Ignore that grumpy buzz kill.

i would, but he's always right Ano....~S~

 

[sparky]

another feeble attempt.....

~S~

 

[evenflow1969]

Do you have anything to add?

Well to speak of this subject is highly technical. It is the time of the year I don't have a great deal of time. I came to this conclusion when I learned of fractals. This would allow for the multi verse. Also knowing of the rule of one at about the same time enforced this belief. This would allow for a physical form of every eventuality being realized. I am preparing for my season to start. I would love to discuss this subject in debt but have to get my boats ready or it effects my income greatly. I am about to disappear off this site completely almost till September. I will continue to read when I have time but am unlikely to comment much.

 

[westwall]

Maybe it is expanding into the chronosynclastic infindibulum.

OK, let's try this: how do we measure the expansion of space? To date, we can only measure it by the expanding space between galaxies as implied through doppler light shifting. So the question then is space itself really getting larger? Or is the universe itself getting bigger along with it?

That then brings gravity into the equation. If space is a bubble, is there enough gravity to bring the expansion to a halt, and then reverse the process, leading to a Big Crunch as it all comes back to a Singularity, which then causes another Big Bang and the cycle repeats, or is there not enough gravity to accomplish that, and instead the Universe continues to expand, and cool till finally...billions and billions and billions of years into the future, the Universe attains entropy and simply fades away.

 

[toobfreak]

Uh oh. Maybe I'm a crazy person.

Or maybe it just takes a little bit of "crazy" to be sane these days. Remember, when Einstein was in high school, his teacher thought him a bit slow, and after graduating college, he could not even get a good job. He held some stupid teaching position somewhere then finally worked as a patent clerk.

In fact, no one would even read any of his papers. Einstein only got accidentally discovered because one guy read his paper on special relativity and saw the potential in what it said.

 

[toobfreak]

That then brings gravity into the equation.

Gravity is everything. I see gravity as the footprint in the snow of existence of being.

If space is a bubble,

I'm not sure it is. It could be a bubble, or a sphere, a ball, or something else. Probably unknowable to us.

is there enough gravity to bring the expansion to a halt, and then reverse the process, leading to a Big Crunch as it all comes back to a Singularity, which then causes another Big Bang and the cycle repeats,

Which would be consistent with the Vedic principle of Mahavishnu creating innumerable universes upon the causal ocean. They even go so far as to define the lengths of time all of this takes.

or is there not enough gravity to accomplish that, and instead the Universe continues to expand, and cool till finally...billions and billions and billions of years into the future, the Universe attains entropy and simply fades away.

That is more in keeping with current western theory based on "dark energy." I'm not at all convinced that dark energy is real or anything more than just a bandaid idea created to explain observation, much less that both dark energy/expansion leading to a dark and empty universe AND and oscillating universe cannot BOTH be true. Perhaps first it expands then that dies out to be followed by contraction; after all, we know now that matter in the universe is not even the dominant substance in it, and contraction would be more consistent with the conservation of energy law.

Likewise, if gravity curves spacetime in upon itself, then it truly cannot be said to even have an outer boundary in the normal sense, because there is no going to or beyond that point without creating more spacetime! In fact, no matter where we travel in our universe, a person always sees themselves at the center of the universe, not at the edge, so we cannot even point to any point in the universe as where spacetime expanded from!