CrusaderFrank
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It's the Continuing Resolution process; it's criminal and needs to end
What idiot wrote the “gambling“ provision into the big beautiful Bill?
- Thread starter Andrew_Jackson_FTW
- Start date
JWBooth
Diamond Member
That’s how these Big Bulbous Bills are crafted. Tons of horseshit covered with just enough honey to generate support from masses that only take a cursory look.Professional gamblers have been sounding the alarm about an element of the “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” that passed in the Senate earlier this week, saying it would effectively raise their taxes, potentially by an enormous amount.
The specific language that has thrown gamblers, particularly in the poker community on social media, into a sense of panic was that deductions “shall be equal to 90% of the amount of such losses during such taxable year, and (B) shall be allowed only to the extent of the gains from such transactions during such taxable year.”
Maria Konnikova, who plays poker and writes books about it, also believes the bill would hurt her earnings.
“This is absolutely horrific if you’re a professional poker player—or even someone like me, who straddles the journalism and poker worlds. It’s basically a huge in-built fee on choosing to engage in any form of gambling (poker isn’t gambling—it’s a game of skill—but I won’t get into that here! for the bill’s purposes, we’re lumping all gambling-adjacent activities together),” she told FOS.
“Imagine I have $100,000 in winnings in a year from poker and I played $200,000-worth of tournaments, for a net win of $0. In past years, I’d have zero poker income—no taxes, because I didn’t actually make a cent. Under this bill, my losses are capped at 90%. So, I can only report $90,000 in losses—and I have to pay taxes on a phantom $10,000 that I don’t actually have! I’m being charged a penalty for choosing to play to begin with. This is absolutely bonkers. For someone like me, it means I effectively have to use my earnings as a writer to subsidize playing poker. Instead of an income stream, poker becomes a liability. If the purpose of this bill is to kill poker and stop people from playing, mission accomplished. The provision hurts you whether you have a winning year or a losing year—and the poker ecosystem is unlikely to survive the change.”
Trump's ‘Big Beautiful Bill’ Includes Huge Tax Hike for Gamblers
One professional gambler told FOS how the legislation could turn a year with a $1 million profit into one with a $2 million loss after taxes.frontofficesports.com
Who wrote this piece of trash legislation into the Bill? Looks like because of the real conservative Thomas Massey it won’t pass.
g5000
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We have to pass it to see what's in it.
g5000
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This is not a CR.
debbiedowner
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I saw this earlier. Doesn't matter now as the big beautiful bill just passed a little while ago.Professional gamblers have been sounding the alarm about an element of the “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” that passed in the Senate earlier this week, saying it would effectively raise their taxes, potentially by an enormous amount.
The specific language that has thrown gamblers, particularly in the poker community on social media, into a sense of panic was that deductions “shall be equal to 90% of the amount of such losses during such taxable year, and (B) shall be allowed only to the extent of the gains from such transactions during such taxable year.”
Maria Konnikova, who plays poker and writes books about it, also believes the bill would hurt her earnings.
“This is absolutely horrific if you’re a professional poker player—or even someone like me, who straddles the journalism and poker worlds. It’s basically a huge in-built fee on choosing to engage in any form of gambling (poker isn’t gambling—it’s a game of skill—but I won’t get into that here! for the bill’s purposes, we’re lumping all gambling-adjacent activities together),” she told FOS.
“Imagine I have $100,000 in winnings in a year from poker and I played $200,000-worth of tournaments, for a net win of $0. In past years, I’d have zero poker income—no taxes, because I didn’t actually make a cent. Under this bill, my losses are capped at 90%. So, I can only report $90,000 in losses—and I have to pay taxes on a phantom $10,000 that I don’t actually have! I’m being charged a penalty for choosing to play to begin with. This is absolutely bonkers. For someone like me, it means I effectively have to use my earnings as a writer to subsidize playing poker. Instead of an income stream, poker becomes a liability. If the purpose of this bill is to kill poker and stop people from playing, mission accomplished. The provision hurts you whether you have a winning year or a losing year—and the poker ecosystem is unlikely to survive the change.”
Trump's ‘Big Beautiful Bill’ Includes Huge Tax Hike for Gamblers
One professional gambler told FOS how the legislation could turn a year with a $1 million profit into one with a $2 million loss after taxes.
Who wrote this piece of trash legislation into the Bill? Looks like because of the real conservative Thomas Massey it won’t pass.
debbiedowner
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If you're a pro I believe they are.
Andrew_Jackson_FTW
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- #28
That’s unfortunate for the Poker industry. Including the thousands of dealers and chip runners and other casino employees.
Andrew_Jackson_FTW
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Buy an order of magnitude. There’s far more risk in the restaurant and business industry. Numbers have already been posted. Looks like there’s way more “degeneracy ” in these industries.
“This is absolutely horrific if you’re a professional poker player—or even someone like me, who straddles the journalism and poker worlds. It’s basically a huge in-built fee on choosing to engage in any form of gambling (poker isn’t gambling—it’s a game of skill—but I won’t get into that here! for the bill’s purposes, we’re lumping all gambling-adjacent activities together),” she told FOS.
“Imagine I have $100,000 in winnings in a year from poker and I played $200,000-worth of tournaments, for a net win of $0. In past years, I’d have zero poker income—no taxes, because I didn’t actually make a cent. Under this bill, my losses are capped at 90%. So, I can only report $90,000 in losses—and I have to pay taxes on a phantom $10,000 that I don’t actually have! I’m being charged a penalty for choosing to play to begin with. This is absolutely bonkers. For someone like me, it means I effectively have to use my earnings as a writer to subsidize playing poker. Instead of an income stream, poker becomes a liability. If the purpose of this bill is to kill poker and stop people from playing, mission accomplished. The provision hurts you whether you have a winning year or a losing year—and the poker ecosystem is unlikely to survive the change.”
Maria Konnikova, who plays poker and writes books about it, also believes the bill would hurt her earnings.
“This is absolutely horrific if you’re a professional poker player—or even someone like me, who straddles the journalism and poker worlds. It’s basically a huge in-built fee on choosing to engage in any form of gambling (poker isn’t gambling—it’s a game of skill—but I won’t get into that here! for the bill’s purposes, we’re lumping all gambling-adjacent activities together),” she told FOS.
“Imagine I have $100,000 in winnings in a year from poker and I played $200,000-worth of tournaments, for a net win of $0. In past years, I’d have zero poker income—no taxes, because I didn’t actually make a cent. Under this bill, my losses are capped at 90%. So, I can only report $90,000 in losses—and I have to pay taxes on a phantom $10,000 that I don’t actually have! I’m being charged a penalty for choosing to play to begin with. This is absolutely bonkers. For someone like me, it means I effectively have to use my earnings as a writer to subsidize playing poker. Instead of an income stream, poker becomes a liability. If the purpose of this bill is to kill poker and stop people from playing, mission accomplished. The provision hurts you whether you have a winning year or a losing year—and the poker ecosystem is unlikely to survive the change.”
Andrew_Jackson_FTW
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- #30
Still interested to see who wrote this provision for the gambling part of the big beautiful Bill. Was it a Maga republican, a non maga republican , a lefty democrat or moderate Democrat who knows?
Andrew_Jackson_FTW
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- #31
Let's say that over the course of all the sessions that we played throughout the year, we won $5.2 million and we lost $5 million dollars for a net of $200,000," he said in a video posted to X, formerly Twitter.
"Now, we would pay as if we won $5.2 million, minus 90 percent of $5 million, which is $4.5 million for a fake net of $700,000... So you would make $200,000 during the year and pay tax as if you made $700,000."
Galfond added that the amendment could push professional gamblers toward offshore, unregulated gambling operators, while ensuring that amateurs – who are more likely to lose – increasingly dominate the U.S. market.
www.newsweek.com
"Now, we would pay as if we won $5.2 million, minus 90 percent of $5 million, which is $4.5 million for a fake net of $700,000... So you would make $200,000 during the year and pay tax as if you made $700,000."
Galfond added that the amendment could push professional gamblers toward offshore, unregulated gambling operators, while ensuring that amateurs – who are more likely to lose – increasingly dominate the U.S. market.
Trump's Big, Beautiful Bill could kill professional gambling
An amendment to the bill which passed the Senate on Tuesday could drastically reduce the ability of gamblers to turn a profit.
www.newsweek.com
CrusaderFrank
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The BBB isn’t a CR?
Borillar
Platinum Member
Enjoy the Repug shit sandwich. There is something about it to hate for everyone except the billionaire class.
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
I play poker and I am in complete agreement with you on all things you've said about poker.*Professional gamblers have been sounding the alarm about an element of the “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” that passed in the Senate earlier this week, saying it would effectively raise their taxes, potentially by an enormous amount.
The specific language that has thrown gamblers, particularly in the poker community on social media, into a sense of panic was that deductions “shall be equal to 90% of the amount of such losses during such taxable year, and (B) shall be allowed only to the extent of the gains from such transactions during such taxable year.”
Maria Konnikova, who plays poker and writes books about it, also believes the bill would hurt her earnings.
“This is absolutely horrific if you’re a professional poker player—or even someone like me, who straddles the journalism and poker worlds. It’s basically a huge in-built fee on choosing to engage in any form of gambling (poker isn’t gambling—it’s a game of skill—but I won’t get into that here! for the bill’s purposes, we’re lumping all gambling-adjacent activities together),” she told FOS.
“Imagine I have $100,000 in winnings in a year from poker and I played $200,000-worth of tournaments, for a net win of $0. In past years, I’d have zero poker income—no taxes, because I didn’t actually make a cent. Under this bill, my losses are capped at 90%. So, I can only report $90,000 in losses—and I have to pay taxes on a phantom $10,000 that I don’t actually have! I’m being charged a penalty for choosing to play to begin with. This is absolutely bonkers. For someone like me, it means I effectively have to use my earnings as a writer to subsidize playing poker. Instead of an income stream, poker becomes a liability. If the purpose of this bill is to kill poker and stop people from playing, mission accomplished. The provision hurts you whether you have a winning year or a losing year—and the poker ecosystem is unlikely to survive the change.”
Trump's ‘Big Beautiful Bill’ Includes Huge Tax Hike for Gamblers
One professional gambler told FOS how the legislation could turn a year with a $1 million profit into one with a $2 million loss after taxes.
Who wrote this piece of trash legislation into the Bill? Looks like because of the real conservative Thomas Massey it won’t pass.
A break-even poker player as you describe is not in the business of poker as a profession. He's a hobby poker player, a "rec" as we would call him. Maybe he's trying to work his way up.
Yes, it sucks that if a person entered one hundred thousand dollar tournaments in a year, and wins $150,000 they have to pay taxes on 60K, instead of the 50K that they won.
But for pokers at the upper professional level, many of whom can easily find sponsors to pay for their entry fees for a cut of the winnnigs. If books and social media influencing are subsidizing their poker playing, well they have to keep playing poker to get those viewers and readers. Konnikova is certainly not the only one.
Witness Youtuber Greg Goes All In, who admitted in front of his girlfriend that he had a losing year by over ten grand, as his Youtube chanel became a huge success. I'm guessing Jamon Burton is the same.
*Except I think you may have meant to say 100,000 worth of winnings for 100,000 in tournament entry fees? Or did I miss something?
We have lost a lot of unalienable rights where people did not care in legislation.
Andrew_Jackson_FTW
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- #36
The social media is a Miche space. And more than a few people who try it lose time and money or don’t get enough subscribers to make any kind of reasonable money for the time effort. And also simply put it’s not for everybody. But that said poker vlogging is an interesting thing for sure
For your last paragraph. I’ve posted articles explaining the situation…. With this whole thing about to is in many cases, a 10% tax simply for playing poker or for that matter betting on sports. I don’t know of any industry where you are taxed upfront like that.
I like Donald Trump and so far nobody knows who wrote the gambling provision into the bill. It is a negative for the casino and Poker industry in general.
The higher up in the states one goes the worse it gets for the tax purposes. Just as Mr. Galfond explains,
What this means in plain English:
- If you win $100k and lose $100k –you’ll owe tax on $10k of 'phantom' income.
- A pro who earns $200k/year might have $3m in winnings and $2.8m in losses. This means earning $200k and being taxed as if they earned $480k.) This applies to both recreational and professional gamblers.”
'Very scary for poker' – Galfond sends warning as 'Big Beautiful Bill' passes
Phil Galfond slams new US bill after it was passed by Congress, warning it could devastate poker in the States.
www.poker.org
Andrew_Jackson_FTW
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- #37
Also, the big question is why is this happening? Other industries generate far far far more money than those in Poker and other betting areas. And the failure rate in the other industries is astronomically higher. As shown before with the failure rate of the restaurant in industry.
So why are sports betters, Poker players and gamblers in general being targeted here for a huge tax hike? I believe it is possible that the person or people behind the gambling provision in the BBB are evangelicals who do not like the gambling industry…but at the same time probably profit from the restaurant or business sectors…which again has a higher failure rate and an even more bloodthirsty competition compared to Poker. Anyways it is what it is.
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
I know poker players can make a profit. I suppose sports bettors could also. I don't see anyone else making a profit, except maybe a tiny fraction of blackjack card counters.
So, yes. This is targetted primarily at poker players and sports bettors. Since criminals used to make so much money with sports books, and I assume now most preople prefer to bet online or in a casino, it may be some organized crime group with lawmakers in their pockets who got this snuck in. It would encourage sports bettors to go to bookies, even with their cut of the winnings.
I believe some allies of Trump were targetting online poker a few years ago, as a way to get those players to go to casinos.
It sucks, but that's the kind of thing that is going to happen when we have absurdly complicated tax laws.
BluesLegend
Diamond Member
Proving once again that no amount of OUR money is enough for government tax and spend mooching sponges.
BluesLegend
Diamond Member
It was probably proposed by some Dem trying to steer money into the RIGGED state run lotteries.
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