What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[francoHFW]

3800 posts later, all we have is the usual posts from Leftards issuing verbal insults that have nothing to do with the OP and no one has admitted there can be no unacceptable human cost to controlling the borders because as soon as you set a limit beyond which is UNacceptable, you've just thrown away your borders and your nation. The solution is to ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM. Creating an effective border barrier immediately eliminates the problem of human cost! Everyone stays on their side and orderly, effective, legal immigration resumes.

Pass the 2010 Democratic comprehensive bill with SS ID card that cannot be faked and enforce it just like every other successful country, the only solution. The wall won't work and 58% just overstay their visas.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm not one of the voices in your head. What is your point, Joe? I never said terrorists had crossed the southern border. Don't know. You're arguing a point not in contention.

Are you arguing that means there is no danger from that terrorists can walk across the border? What is your point?

I'm arguing that no terrorists ever walked across the second border, but your side (not you personally; you don't take responsibility for the things you actually say, much less the other nuts on your side) claimed that they were all disguised as Mexicans and the Southern Border was littered with abandoned prayer rugs.

Be patient. He’ll make something up to fit his argument. It’s his M O.

Don't have to... just look at what your side said.

Texas Lt. Gov: 'Prayer Rugs' Found On Texas Side Of Mexican Border

Now mind you, this was back in 2014, so these must be the most patient terrorists int he world.

 

[JoeB131]

I can understand that. When I was hired at my current job, there were three people doing more or less what I do, including myself. One of them was useless AND a pain in the ass. We got rid of her right after I was hired, and never missed her. A couple of months ago, the company got rid of the other guy, and I just absorbed his work. He was very nice, but I spent a good part of my day checking his work because he was careless and didn't have the best grasp of spelling and grammar. It's actually easier and faster for me to do all the work myself than to do my job and double-check his.

And did you get a 200% pay raise for taking on the work of two other people?

I'm guessing you didn't.

I was in a situation like that. I joined a purchasing team of 8 people and a Material Manager in 2008. By the time I left, it was down to three people, one of whom was only on the Purchasing Team because she was fucking her boss in Customer Service, and they had to move her.

Despite saving the company over $400,000 over an 7 year period, including one project that improved the quality of a major product line, meh, I barely got raises that kept up with inflation.

And this was one of the BETTER companies I've worked for.

Capitalism is a shit sandwich for most people. Sorry you are too dumb to realize that.

Now if that will just translate into a pay raise, since I'm basically doing single-handedly what originally had three people assigned to it . . .

See, you made my point... why should they give you a pay raise?

 

[JoeB131]

The government issues notes, it does not (or is not supposed to) keep what you earn and redistribute it the way they like.

Sorry, man, that's totally their job. It costs money to have civilization,and we all need to do our part. But being a battered housewife Republican, you'll whine all day about the pittance given poor people and not about the huge giveaways the rich get.

If my tax cuts are eaten up, then that's fine as long as it brings more jobs to the US. After all, in my line of work, I depend on successful and busy companies. The more they work, the more work they have for our company.

Why, it's not like you'll see any of that money.

Here's how you get better pay. You take money away from the rich and pay for public works.... Then your boss has to pay you better lest you take one of those government jobs.

It's why every recession in history hasn't ended until we spent a shitload of government money.

However when Democrats take, they usually give nothing in return. They take from the responsible working and give it to the irresponsible non-working or those who work very little.

Buddy, most of the money the government gives out is WHITE PEOPLE WELFARE - Social Security, Medicare and Unemployment Insurance.

You know, entitlements given to WHITE PEOPLE. Those people on social security are sucking up a lot more money than a working mom getting food stamps to supplement her minimum wage job, and producing far less.

Seriously, go fuck yourself, you racist ****. You are confused poor and don't even know it.

 

[JoeB131]

This is as obvious as the nose on your face. Why would the Democrats be so hell bent on stopping the wall they would even shutdown the government for it?

Because it's a waste of money and it sends an ugly message.. Oh yeah,also bad for the environment, requires seizing private land, and won't solve the underlying problem that doesn't really exist. You know, all that.

Why did they stop Kate's Law; a law that would have imprisoned foreign felons who returned after deportation?

Because we don't have enough room in the prisons for real criminals, much less misdemeanors.

Why would they be fighting like hell to keep their sanctuary cities?

Because ICE can't be trusted. They are going after resident aliens and even naturalized citizens now.

There is only one reason for this, because it sure as hell doesn't benefit this country--it benefits the Democrat party.

Actually, there are a lot of benefits to undocumented labor... they take the jobs Americans won't.

When did the Republicans ever use racism to sell capitalism? Have any examples? We've been a capitalist society for many years Joe.

And we've been racist for our entire fucking history. Imagine that.

Ronald Reagan didn't go out in 2008 and talk about 'Hey, you are going to work harder for less money because I'm going to make it easier to bust up your union and ship your job overseas!"

He ran talking about "Welfare Queens" and "Young Bucks"... and you stupid fucks bought it.

It's not a new concept. If you didn't get ahead in the capitalist system, it probably means you never been involved in capitalism. You get your paycheck, spend it or save some, and never invest a dime of your personal money outside of a savings account.

Buddy, sweetie, i probably make more money than you do. I don't live in a slum like you do. ANd I can get Health Insurance.

 

[kaz]

I'm not one of the voices in your head. What is your point, Joe? I never said terrorists had crossed the southern border. Don't know. You're arguing a point not in contention.

Are you arguing that means there is no danger from that terrorists can walk across the border? What is your point?

I'm arguing that no terrorists ever walked across the second border, but your side (not you personally; you don't take responsibility for the things you actually say, much less the other nuts on your side) claimed that they were all disguised as Mexicans and the Southern Border was littered with abandoned prayer rugs

You're too nuts for me this morning. That doesn't make sense like your last post didn't. Just inane prattling

 

[danielpalos]

The rich earned their wealth? Are you that stupid? The Walton’s earned nothing. Sam Walton earned their wealth. The Waltons sit on their asses and collect dividends off the work if others.

The rich have a tax code that keeps wealth flowing to the top. They have labour laws which allow them to deny health care or benefits to workers, and to pay them so little their workers need welfare to supplement their incomes.

They appoint a burger flipper as “manager” so they can work him/her 60 hours a week without paying overtime.

Other countries put their people first. America puts their corporations first, and the wealthy second. Working men and women, who make up the vast majority of your population are denigrated, abused and paid the least amount possible.

Envy is a bitch.

Stop whining about a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, right wingers.

Funny how lefties always settle for a minimum, even if/when minimum is increased.

even funnier how the right wing even envies a minimum wage enough to whine about the cost.

 

[danielpalos]

The real purpose of taking kids away from their parents is to persuade the parents to waive a trial and plead guilty. Once they plead guilty, their deportation can be expedited and they will be united with their children in few days or weeks. If they ask for their day in court, they won't see their children for months, or up to 1 year and they are told this.

What a load of crap.

If that is the "real reason" and if Barry hasn't done anything wrong by doing it (with your silent approval), than Trump is doing nothing wrong neither.

Kids don't belong to jail. Their parents are lawbreakers, not them.

The Obama administration placed nearly 90,000 children with a sponsor, after they were detained at the border without a legal guardian. The only time children split from their family under Obama was if the adult was suspected of not being a guardian, had an outstanding warrant, or federal agents suspected the adult of another serious crime like trafficking or smuggling.

The Trump administration policy was to separate all children from their parents with no exceptions and if there had not been the outcry from the public and pressure from congress he would still be doing it. No law compelled him to do it. He did as deterrent and to speed up deportations. His actions were so deplorable that even his wife and daughter spoke out against it.

Not real news: The truth about volcanic gems, and immigrant kids placed into care under Obama

You're parroting Schumer's talking points that President can solve the problem with his pen. Sure he can, under the Section 212F of INA, President have full authority to shut down all immigration when he deems it of national interest. Just so you know and you don't complain about it later.

Now, let's talk about what you said: "No law compelled him to do it."

Back in 1997, there was law where they agree that we cannot detain unaccompanied children. Now, have you heard of Barry appointee district judge Dolly Gee? Not so long ago, in June 2016 she applied the 1997 agreement of not detaining unaccompanied children to all children, including when they cross the border illegally with their parents. You lefties are simply ignoring the law and going solely by the interpretation of the law from one leftist district judge.

The fact is, what president is doing is completely within a law. You lefties and your media are saying there is no such law and having meltdown over it. What you pretty much "forced" Trump to sign is gonna hit you in the ass. Yeah, you may celebrate the "victory", but it's not going to last. What's going to happen is, if Trump can't separate the families while they're being processed, he'll keep them together and deport them together before 20 days of legally being detained expire.

I know you lefties don't care about sovereignty of this country, but there are plenty of us who does including the president. He can stop all the immigration into the country, family based, employment based etc. He can reject every asylum at the border and redirect all asylum claims to be filed in US Embassies. You lefties surely don't want that, but you just might get it.

"The exclusion of aliens is a fundamental act of sovereignty. The right to do so stems not alone from legislative power, but is inherent in the executive power to control the foreign affairs of the nation." - Knauff v. Shaughnessy, 338 U.S. 537 (1950)

should we start with, "misuse of process"? 10USC246 has precedent whenever the "security of our free States", is involved.

So how many joined the armed forces to ensure the security of the free state?

I got one for you.

8 U.S.C. §1182(f) of the U.S. Code confers on the president the power to turn away immigrants at the border. It provides:

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

do we have alleged Wars on crime, drugs, and terror or not, right wingers.

10USC246 takes, State security and Union security, precedence.

 

[Slyhunter]

3800 posts later, all we have is the usual posts from Leftards issuing verbal insults that have nothing to do with the OP and no one has admitted there can be no unacceptable human cost to controlling the borders because as soon as you set a limit beyond which is UNacceptable, you've just thrown away your borders and your nation. The solution is to ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM. Creating an effective border barrier immediately eliminates the problem of human cost! Everyone stays on their side and orderly, effective, legal immigration resumes.

Building a border wall is expensive and basically useless because border crossings are at such low levels. The government still hasn’t settled all the law suits from the last attempt at building a wall so there are issues with getting the land they would need.

A wall does NOTHING to stop people from flying in with tourist or student visas and overstaying their visas, which is how most illegal immigrants enter the country. Most of the illegal drugs cross into the US by plane or boat.

The Border Patrol said a big disadvantage to a wall is they can't see through. So people can be on the other side with ladders and ropes waiting till the patrol passes. Currently the officers can see through fences and see people approaching the boarder.

The biggest problem as you pointed out is the decreasing number of people attempting to cross the boarder and the increasing number of visa overstays. The border does nothing to solve the visa overstay problem which accounts for about half of the undocumented immigrants and is growing. In 25 years when there is no illegal immigrant problem and people need better access to both sides of the border, what do you do with this thing other than tear it down.

The trash cross the border illegally, it's the trash we want to keep out.
The visa overstay is a different problem to be handled differently and separately from the illegal border crossers.

 

[danielpalos]

3800 posts later, all we have is the usual posts from Leftards issuing verbal insults that have nothing to do with the OP and no one has admitted there can be no unacceptable human cost to controlling the borders because as soon as you set a limit beyond which is UNacceptable, you've just thrown away your borders and your nation. The solution is to ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM. Creating an effective border barrier immediately eliminates the problem of human cost! Everyone stays on their side and orderly, effective, legal immigration resumes.

Building a border wall is expensive and basically useless because border crossings are at such low levels. The government still hasn’t settled all the law suits from the last attempt at building a wall so there are issues with getting the land they would need.

A wall does NOTHING to stop people from flying in with tourist or student visas and overstaying their visas, which is how most illegal immigrants enter the country. Most of the illegal drugs cross into the US by plane or boat.

The Border Patrol said a big disadvantage to a wall is they can't see through. So people can be on the other side with ladders and ropes waiting till the patrol passes. Currently the officers can see through fences and see people approaching the boarder.

The biggest problem as you pointed out is the decreasing number of people attempting to cross the boarder and the increasing number of visa overstays. The border does nothing to solve the visa overstay problem which accounts for about half of the undocumented immigrants and is growing. In 25 years when there is no illegal immigrant problem and people need better access to both sides of the border, what do you do with this thing other than tear it down.

The trash cross the border illegally, it's the trash we want to keep out.
The visa overstay is a different problem to be handled differently and separately from the illegal border crossers.

People, right wingers.

 

[Slyhunter]

I can understand that. When I was hired at my current job, there were three people doing more or less what I do, including myself. One of them was useless AND a pain in the ass. We got rid of her right after I was hired, and never missed her. A couple of months ago, the company got rid of the other guy, and I just absorbed his work. He was very nice, but I spent a good part of my day checking his work because he was careless and didn't have the best grasp of spelling and grammar. It's actually easier and faster for me to do all the work myself than to do my job and double-check his.

And did you get a 200% pay raise for taking on the work of two other people?

I'm guessing you didn't.

I was in a situation like that. I joined a purchasing team of 8 people and a Material Manager in 2008. By the time I left, it was down to three people, one of whom was only on the Purchasing Team because she was fucking her boss in Customer Service, and they had to move her.

Despite saving the company over $400,000 over an 7 year period, including one project that improved the quality of a major product line, meh, I barely got raises that kept up with inflation.

And this was one of the BETTER companies I've worked for.

Capitalism is a shit sandwich for most people. Sorry you are too dumb to realize that.

Now if that will just translate into a pay raise, since I'm basically doing single-handedly what originally had three people assigned to it . . .

See, you made my point... why should they give you a pay raise?

I was given an opportunity by someone who tested my abilities and then hired me when others wouldn't give me the time of day. He then gave me a company car on the first day of employment. Then a company expense account, and a company pager. In time he reimbursed me for expenses on a cell phone. Back 1992 I made $10.00 an hour.

He put me answering phones even though I was a programmer. I was bi-polar, didn't know it, and impatient. So between phone calls I used VB to create a program that would do a fast lookup of third party settings. He put my program on the line for Help desk and promoted me to field service tech without a pay raise.

I travelled the country solving customers problems. There was a 15-30 hour update that I had to do for drug interactions. I had to sit there and watch the computer while it works in case it crashed and then hit ctrl-c then cancel to pop it past the error. I also had to change disks in drive A 3 times when the computer requested it. I created a directory and copied all the floppy files to that directory then made the computer think that directory was drive A. Then I looked at the data file, I had no access to the source code of the update software, but I found a space after the year in the data file which is what was causing the crash, so I removed it. I picked up 5 computers from 5 customers on a Friday night and installed them back on a Sunday night before they opened on Monday. Boss decided to keep me out longer, when I was in New Hampshire, so he sent someone out with more parts for repairs and that person discovered me drunk in the Hotel bar instead of watching the computers. He Immediately called me back using that guy to finish my work. I showed the boss what I did when I got back and he promoted me to the Programming department with no pay raise and a loss of my expense account, but I kept the car and the cell phone.

The program was screwed, written in spaghetti code. I fixed the accounting program they had been working for years on and couldn't fix. I would run into problems where my fellow programmers would tell me "were not allowed to do that", I'd do it anyhow because it was what was needed to fix the program. I convinced my boss in the creation of the testing dept and he put me in charge of it with no increase in pay.

Boss would joke that it took me forever to write anything so if you want it fast you give it to someone else. But if you want it right you give it to me. I was a perfectionist and it was rare anyones program made it past me the first time without rewrites.

Anyhow there was a situation where the guy who was on call didn't answer the call and then they couldn't reach me because I was in a strip club and my phone didn't have signal while in the club. Boss gave me ultimatum, as long as I had company car I would be on call 24/7. I told him to take the car and stuff it up his ass. So he did.
Then he gave me two weeks off without pay. I told unemployment he fired me and lived on it for a couple of months. Then I moved to Florida and became a assembly line worker. If I had gone back to him and apologized he would've hired me back. My pride wouldn't let me. If I had been properly diagnosed with bipolar disorder back then and properly medicated maybe things would've been different. I have not written code since then.

1992, now its 2018 and I still make $10.00 per hour.

 

[Dragonlady]

3800 posts later, all we have is the usual posts from Leftards issuing verbal insults that have nothing to do with the OP and no one has admitted there can be no unacceptable human cost to controlling the borders because as soon as you set a limit beyond which is UNacceptable, you've just thrown away your borders and your nation. The solution is to ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM. Creating an effective border barrier immediately eliminates the problem of human cost! Everyone stays on their side and orderly, effective, legal immigration resumes.

Building a border wall is expensive and basically useless because border crossings are at such low levels. The government still hasn’t settled all the law suits from the last attempt at building a wall so there are issues with getting the land they would need.

A wall does NOTHING to stop people from flying in with tourist or student visas and overstaying their visas, which is how most illegal immigrants enter the country. Most of the illegal drugs cross into the US by plane or boat.

The Border Patrol said a big disadvantage to a wall is they can't see through. So people can be on the other side with ladders and ropes waiting till the patrol passes. Currently the officers can see through fences and see people approaching the boarder.

The biggest problem as you pointed out is the decreasing number of people attempting to cross the boarder and the increasing number of visa overstays. The border does nothing to solve the visa overstay problem which accounts for about half of the undocumented immigrants and is growing. In 25 years when there is no illegal immigrant problem and people need better access to both sides of the border, what do you do with this thing other than tear it down.

The trash cross the border illegally, it's the trash we want to keep out.
The visa overstay is a different problem to be handled differently and separately from the illegal border crossers.

They’re people, human beings, fleeing for their lives. Dehumanizing people, calling them “trash”, or “vermin” is done to make it seem reasonable to treat them badly.

It’s not acceptable, it’s not Christian, and it violates the Constitution.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

3800 posts later, all we have is the usual posts from Leftards issuing verbal insults that have nothing to do with the OP and no one has admitted there can be no unacceptable human cost to controlling the borders because as soon as you set a limit beyond which is UNacceptable, you've just thrown away your borders and your nation. The solution is to ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM. Creating an effective border barrier immediately eliminates the problem of human cost! Everyone stays on their side and orderly, effective, legal immigration resumes.

Building a border wall is expensive and basically useless because border crossings are at such low levels. The government still hasn’t settled all the law suits from the last attempt at building a wall so there are issues with getting the land they would need.

A wall does NOTHING to stop people from flying in with tourist or student visas and overstaying their visas, which is how most illegal immigrants enter the country. Most of the illegal drugs cross into the US by plane or boat.

The Border Patrol said a big disadvantage to a wall is they can't see through. So people can be on the other side with ladders and ropes waiting till the patrol passes. Currently the officers can see through fences and see people approaching the boarder.

The biggest problem as you pointed out is the decreasing number of people attempting to cross the boarder and the increasing number of visa overstays. The border does nothing to solve the visa overstay problem which accounts for about half of the undocumented immigrants and is growing. In 25 years when there is no illegal immigrant problem and people need better access to both sides of the border, what do you do with this thing other than tear it down.

The trash cross the border illegally, it's the trash we want to keep out.
The visa overstay is a different problem to be handled differently and separately from the illegal border crossers.

They’re people, human beings, fleeing for their lives. Dehumanizing people, calling them “trash”, or “vermin” is done to make it seem reasonable to treat them badly.

It’s not acceptable, it’s not Christian, and it violates the Constitution.

What part of the Constitution does it violate?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because it's a waste of money and it sends an ugly message.. Oh yeah,also bad for the environment, requires seizing private land, and won't solve the underlying problem that doesn't really exist. You know, all that.

Over 12 million illegals doesn't exist? People trying to sneak into the country doesn't exist? What rock are you living under?

Yeah, the wall does send a message: STF out of this country. There is nothing ugly about it. And the Democrats are worried about wasting money? They really got you hook, line and sinker Joe.

The Democrats are scared of the wall because it will greatly reduce illegals and drug flow into this country. Then they will have to think of all kinds of excuses how the reduction had nothing to do with the wall. When are you going to come to terms that the Democrats want as many foreigners in this country that they can fit in?

Because we don't have enough room in the prisons for real criminals, much less misdemeanors.

Oh, it that it? So instead, let the real criminals roam American streets to sell drugs, rape, rob and murder Americans. Yeah, that's the Democrat way.

Because ICE can't be trusted. They are going after resident aliens and even naturalized citizens now.

Bullshit. They are still going after illegals. You are so dense you don't see a common denominator in all this yet? You must be as blind as a bat.

ctually, there are a lot of benefits to undocumented labor... they take the jobs Americans won't.

They take jobs Americans won't and will. That brings down our pay scale for all Americans. The Dummycrats have you believe the only thing these illegals do is pick grapes.

And we've been racist for our entire fucking history. Imagine that.

Ronald Reagan didn't go out in 2008 and talk about 'Hey, you are going to work harder for less money because I'm going to make it easier to bust up your union and ship your job overseas!"

He ran talking about "Welfare Queens" and "Young Bucks"... and you stupid fucks bought it.

Name one thing Reagan did to make it easier to beak up unions. Name one thing he did to send jobs overseas.

The reason jobs went overseas is because of unions, taxation and consistent increasing expensive government regulation. It had nothing to do with Reagan.

And I see you couldn't answer the question. So one more time: when did Republicans ever use racism to promote capitalism?

Buddy, sweetie, i probably make more money than you do. I don't live in a slum like you do. ANd I can get Health Insurance.

What does that have to do with what I said? Capitalism is investments--not working a job.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sorry, man, that's totally their job. It costs money to have civilization,and we all need to do our part. But being a battered housewife Republican, you'll whine all day about the pittance given poor people and not about the huge giveaways the rich get.

Letting people keep more of THEIR OWN MONEY is not a giveaway to anybody. But even if we did, it's way more beneficial than giving it to people who produce nothing; people who don't create jobs; people who don't donate to charities.

Why, it's not like you'll see any of that money.

Here's how you get better pay. You take money away from the rich and pay for public works.... Then your boss has to pay you better lest you take one of those government jobs.

It's why every recession in history hasn't ended until we spent a shitload of government money.

Utter bull. Government jobs doesn't help an economy. Take more money from the rich? The rich already pay most of the income taxes for all of us.

Buddy, most of the money the government gives out is WHITE PEOPLE WELFARE - Social Security, Medicare and Unemployment Insurance.

You know, entitlements given to WHITE PEOPLE. Those people on social security are sucking up a lot more money than a working mom getting food stamps to supplement her minimum wage job, and producing far less.

Seriously, go fuck yourself, you racist ****. You are confused poor and don't even know it

So what about the people who paid into the programs that never collected a dime? Yeah, all those white working people who died before 65? If you want to criticize anybody, how about the great society creator instead of all white people? You know, one of the very kind of people you support today. Sit there talking about getting more than you pay in, and in the same breath, talk about government healthcare. Well WTF do you think would happen to that program? And if and when it does, will you then be complaining that socialized healthcare is white welfare too? Probably so.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Border Patrol said a big disadvantage to a wall is they can't see through. So people can be on the other side with ladders and ropes waiting till the patrol passes. Currently the officers can see through fences and see people approaching the boarder.

Well if the border patrol can't see people on the Mexican side, how are the people on the Mexican side able to see when the border patrol leaves the area?

They got this new thing out today. It's called cameras.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Okay, but the reason for that is is not because they want to "Wipe out White People", but because after Nixon and the Southern Strategy, the GOP decided that they were going to play on Whit

Trump even said only in strategic locations. Now that we have this problem with people using asylum to get in, we need it more than ever now. As for the older borders, those need to be torn down and rebuilt using the latest technology.

e insecurities...

This is as obvious as the nose on your face. Why would the Democrats be so hell bent on stopping the wall they would even shutdown the government for it? Why did they stop Kate's Law; a law that would have imprisoned foreign felons who returned after deportation? Why would they be fighting like hell to keep their sanctuary cities?

There is only one reason for this, because it sure as hell doesn't benefit this country--it benefits the Democrat party.

They can't tell you their real reasons, but then again, when are they ever honest with their constituents?

Oh, noes, we might actually be able to get you health insurance, and that would be awful!!! Here's the thing, if Capitalism weren't such a shit sandwich for those of us who do the work, then the GOP wouldn't need racism to sell it.

When did the Republicans ever use racism to sell capitalism? Have any examples? We've been a capitalist society for many years Joe. It's not a new concept. If you didn't get ahead in the capitalist system, it probably means you never been involved in capitalism. You get your paycheck, spend it or save some, and never invest a dime of your personal money outside of a savings account.

Trump said lots of things, most of them contradictory. The Wall is complete nonsense. It was when he first proposed and is even more so today.

Well, if the wall is nonsense, let him build it. Nothing could be better for the Democrat party than to allow Republicans to build this wall and have it be a complete failure. They would be able to rub our noses in it for decades to come. They could remind voters ever election on what a waste of money it was.

But the truth is you and I both know a wall would accomplish what we on the right want, and that is a drastic reduction in illegals and deadly narcotics coming to this country. That's one of the things the left is afraid of. The other thing is a wall is not something they could remove. It's there for good.

Sorry about the length of the post.
Democrats as well as a lot of republicans are against building a wall for very sound reasons.

First, it's not going to solve the illegal immigration problem or ever come close. Approximately half of the people in the country illegally are overstays of visas and the problem is getting worst not better. For every three border crossers in 1992, there was one overstay. But by 2012, visa overstays accounted for 58 percent of all new unauthorized immigrants. A wall not only will do nothing to stop these people from entering, but it may actually incentivize more people to stick around without authorization.

Illegal entries are going down and there is good reason to believe they will continue to do so as increasing demand for low wage workers in Mexico increases and border security continues to improve. Demand for workers in the US will eventually persuade congress to increase work permits which will increase the number of overstays and decrease illegal entries.

Second, there is no plan for the wall. Trump has build 8 different protypes but how he plans to spend 25 billion dollars is a mystery to congress and likely his own administration. For example where is he going to build the wall. Trump has said 1500 miles of the border will be wall and he also said 1,000 miles. He said he would use reinforce fencing and he said he will replace all reinforced. He said the wall will be 30 feet high and he said the wall will be 50 feet high. He's not giving congress any real details except he wants 25 billion dollars to build some kind of wall somewhere along the border. This is nuts.

Lastly, Trump has committed to building a wall fast, easy, and on schedule. He has said this over and over. Is that really possible?

70% of the US border is in the hands of private individuals. Many of the owners of larger parcels have said they will fight any attempt to seize their land. To get just 1000 miles of right away for the wall could easy take 10 years. Getting the land to build a freeway that covers 50 miles typical takes 5 to 7 years. Just a few of the obstacles are a large Indian reservation which is about half in the US and half in Mexico. The tribe has said they will fight any attempt to run a wall through the reservation. It would take an act congress to force the tribe to accept the wall thru their land. Then there's a water reservoir jointly managed by the US and Mexico providing water for irrigation and cattle on both sides of the border. Since this is covered by treaty, again it would take an act of congress to resolve the problem. Then there are environmental problems which will very likely bring lawsuits from a number of organizations. And all this is just for starters.

Then there's the untended consequences.
Many of our border patrol officers have stated a wall has one big drawback. You can't see through it. People can stand behind the wall with ropes and ladders waiting for a patrol to pass and then they're over the wall. With fences officers can observe the area for miles and spot people approaching the fence. In cities, ladders ropes and pulleys can be used to sail over a wall. And of course tunnels and simply flying over the wall are real possibilities.

Until the first fence was built in 1990, workers could circulate freely across the border, coming to harvest crops during the summer and then returning home in the winter. They crossed with a goal of bettering their lives south of the border, not to live in US. Prior to 1980 we had a relatively small permanent population of illegal immigrants compared to today. However, as fencing and border patrols increased, crossing became more difficult so once people crossed they stayed longer. If we actually complete a wall and it is really difficult to cross, it seem likely that those who come into the country will be here to stay.

Lastly, Trump will have about 2 years left on his term to build his wall which would be virtually impossible even to complete a small portion. Maybe he would be re-elected but maybe not. Given that republicans have never been very supported of the wall and democrats would do there best to tear it down as soon as they got control of congress, does this project really make sense? Whenever, the country has gone into a major project with cost in the many billions lasting many years, we have always had strong support from at least one party and at least acceptance from the other and generally good support from the public. This project has none of the above.
Why the Wall Won't Work

Sounds like a lot of excuse making to me by somebody who is against the wall.

If the money is appropriated, then plans could be made. Trump only makes the decision on the plans. The plans are actually made by our border patrol and all agencies that protect our border. I'm sure the military would be involved as well. If you think these people and agencies are so inept they can't figure out ways intruders will try to get around this wall, you are not giving much credit where credit is due.

This money is a pittance of our budget. We spend more than three times the cost of the wall just to provide food stamps for one single year. Plus when you consider how much illegals are costing us every year, the wall will pay for itself in just one year or less.

Now if the Democrats want to try and remove a 35 billion dollar wall; especially if it shows very positive results, be my guest. Nothing would be better for the Republican party if and when they decide to do it.

And if we find a way to cut down on overstays, do you think these people just won't come here? Of course not. If we are able to do that, they will be crossing the border next, and then it will be even a bigger problem.

 

[Flopper]

The Border Patrol said a big disadvantage to a wall is they can't see through. So people can be on the other side with ladders and ropes waiting till the patrol passes. Currently the officers can see through fences and see people approaching the boarder.

Well if the border patrol can't see people on the Mexican side, how are the people on the Mexican side able to see when the border patrol leaves the area?

They got this new thing out today. It's called cameras.

They don't have to see, they just wait till they hear the parole passing. The biggest beneficiaries of the wall will be the coyotes that have trucks, ladders, and equipment that they can adapt to the wall. The Mexican authorities use to root these people out. Somehow, I think that cooperation is dead and gone.

 

[Flopper]

Okay, but the reason for that is is not because they want to "Wipe out White People", but because after Nixon and the Southern Strategy, the GOP decided that they were going to play on Whit
e insecurities...

This is as obvious as the nose on your face. Why would the Democrats be so hell bent on stopping the wall they would even shutdown the government for it? Why did they stop Kate's Law; a law that would have imprisoned foreign felons who returned after deportation? Why would they be fighting like hell to keep their sanctuary cities?

There is only one reason for this, because it sure as hell doesn't benefit this country--it benefits the Democrat party.

They can't tell you their real reasons, but then again, when are they ever honest with their constituents?

Oh, noes, we might actually be able to get you health insurance, and that would be awful!!! Here's the thing, if Capitalism weren't such a shit sandwich for those of us who do the work, then the GOP wouldn't need racism to sell it.

When did the Republicans ever use racism to sell capitalism? Have any examples? We've been a capitalist society for many years Joe. It's not a new concept. If you didn't get ahead in the capitalist system, it probably means you never been involved in capitalism. You get your paycheck, spend it or save some, and never invest a dime of your personal money outside of a savings account.

Trump said lots of things, most of them contradictory. The Wall is complete nonsense. It was when he first proposed and is even more so today.

Well, if the wall is nonsense, let him build it. Nothing could be better for the Democrat party than to allow Republicans to build this wall and have it be a complete failure. They would be able to rub our noses in it for decades to come. They could remind voters ever election on what a waste of money it was.

But the truth is you and I both know a wall would accomplish what we on the right want, and that is a drastic reduction in illegals and deadly narcotics coming to this country. That's one of the things the left is afraid of. The other thing is a wall is not something they could remove. It's there for good.

Sorry about the length of the post.
Democrats as well as a lot of republicans are against building a wall for very sound reasons.

First, it's not going to solve the illegal immigration problem or ever come close. Approximately half of the people in the country illegally are overstays of visas and the problem is getting worst not better. For every three border crossers in 1992, there was one overstay. But by 2012, visa overstays accounted for 58 percent of all new unauthorized immigrants. A wall not only will do nothing to stop these people from entering, but it may actually incentivize more people to stick around without authorization.

Illegal entries are going down and there is good reason to believe they will continue to do so as increasing demand for low wage workers in Mexico increases and border security continues to improve. Demand for workers in the US will eventually persuade congress to increase work permits which will increase the number of overstays and decrease illegal entries.

Second, there is no plan for the wall. Trump has build 8 different protypes but how he plans to spend 25 billion dollars is a mystery to congress and likely his own administration. For example where is he going to build the wall. Trump has said 1500 miles of the border will be wall and he also said 1,000 miles. He said he would use reinforce fencing and he said he will replace all reinforced. He said the wall will be 30 feet high and he said the wall will be 50 feet high. He's not giving congress any real details except he wants 25 billion dollars to build some kind of wall somewhere along the border. This is nuts.

Lastly, Trump has committed to building a wall fast, easy, and on schedule. He has said this over and over. Is that really possible?

70% of the US border is in the hands of private individuals. Many of the owners of larger parcels have said they will fight any attempt to seize their land. To get just 1000 miles of right away for the wall could easy take 10 years. Getting the land to build a freeway that covers 50 miles typical takes 5 to 7 years. Just a few of the obstacles are a large Indian reservation which is about half in the US and half in Mexico. The tribe has said they will fight any attempt to run a wall through the reservation. It would take an act congress to force the tribe to accept the wall thru their land. Then there's a water reservoir jointly managed by the US and Mexico providing water for irrigation and cattle on both sides of the border. Since this is covered by treaty, again it would take an act of congress to resolve the problem. Then there are environmental problems which will very likely bring lawsuits from a number of organizations. And all this is just for starters.

Then there's the untended consequences.
Many of our border patrol officers have stated a wall has one big drawback. You can't see through it. People can stand behind the wall with ropes and ladders waiting for a patrol to pass and then they're over the wall. With fences officers can observe the area for miles and spot people approaching the fence. In cities, ladders ropes and pulleys can be used to sail over a wall. And of course tunnels and simply flying over the wall are real possibilities.

Until the first fence was built in 1990, workers could circulate freely across the border, coming to harvest crops during the summer and then returning home in the winter. They crossed with a goal of bettering their lives south of the border, not to live in US. Prior to 1980 we had a relatively small permanent population of illegal immigrants compared to today. However, as fencing and border patrols increased, crossing became more difficult so once people crossed they stayed longer. If we actually complete a wall and it is really difficult to cross, it seem likely that those who come into the country will be here to stay.

Lastly, Trump will have about 2 years left on his term to build his wall which would be virtually impossible even to complete a small portion. Maybe he would be re-elected but maybe not. Given that republicans have never been very supported of the wall and democrats would do there best to tear it down as soon as they got control of congress, does this project really make sense? Whenever, the country has gone into a major project with cost in the many billions lasting many years, we have always had strong support from at least one party and at least acceptance from the other and generally good support from the public. This project has none of the above.
Why the Wall Won't Work

Sounds like a lot of excuse making to me by somebody who is against the wall.

If the money is appropriated, then plans could be made. Trump only makes the decision on the plans. The plans are actually made by our border patrol and all agencies that protect our border. I'm sure the military would be involved as well. If you think these people and agencies are so inept they can't figure out ways intruders will try to get around this wall, you are not giving much credit where credit is due.

This money is a pittance of our budget. We spend more than three times the cost of the wall just to provide food stamps for one single year. Plus when you consider how much illegals are costing us every year, the wall will pay for itself in just one year or less.

Now if the Democrats want to try and remove a 35 billion dollar wall; especially if it shows very positive results, be my guest. Nothing would be better for the Republican party if and when they decide to do it.

And if we find a way to cut down on overstays, do you think these people just won't come here? Of course not. If we are able to do that, they will be crossing the border next, and then it will be even a bigger problem.

You're making the assumption that the thing will actually be built. The reality is that only a small part if any will be completed during the Trump administration.

 

[danielpalos]

3800 posts later, all we have is the usual posts from Leftards issuing verbal insults that have nothing to do with the OP and no one has admitted there can be no unacceptable human cost to controlling the borders because as soon as you set a limit beyond which is UNacceptable, you've just thrown away your borders and your nation. The solution is to ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM. Creating an effective border barrier immediately eliminates the problem of human cost! Everyone stays on their side and orderly, effective, legal immigration resumes.

Building a border wall is expensive and basically useless because border crossings are at such low levels. The government still hasn’t settled all the law suits from the last attempt at building a wall so there are issues with getting the land they would need.

A wall does NOTHING to stop people from flying in with tourist or student visas and overstaying their visas, which is how most illegal immigrants enter the country. Most of the illegal drugs cross into the US by plane or boat.

The Border Patrol said a big disadvantage to a wall is they can't see through. So people can be on the other side with ladders and ropes waiting till the patrol passes. Currently the officers can see through fences and see people approaching the boarder.

The biggest problem as you pointed out is the decreasing number of people attempting to cross the boarder and the increasing number of visa overstays. The border does nothing to solve the visa overstay problem which accounts for about half of the undocumented immigrants and is growing. In 25 years when there is no illegal immigrant problem and people need better access to both sides of the border, what do you do with this thing other than tear it down.

The trash cross the border illegally, it's the trash we want to keep out.
The visa overstay is a different problem to be handled differently and separately from the illegal border crossers.

They’re people, human beings, fleeing for their lives. Dehumanizing people, calling them “trash”, or “vermin” is done to make it seem reasonable to treat them badly.

It’s not acceptable, it’s not Christian, and it violates the Constitution.

What part of the Constitution does it violate?

10USC246 trumps federal immigration laws, when it is really really serious.