What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Flopper]

Your bad attitude is keeping you poor. That's why I fired you.

Guy, you couldn't afford me... I probably wouldn't have sent your chicken shit company a resume...

You're a bottom feeder who doesn't even offer health insurance.

I watch little companies like yours go out of business because of their half-assery all the time.

You already told me your max salary was $80K. Now you make less than $25K. It's not the money I can't afford, that's for sure. I wouldn't do you to my staff though.

After I had bought and merged three companies, I had picked up a lot of good employees and of course a lot of dead wood. I was working with my management team on our plan to replace the bad staff. But we didn't know how many people we would need to replace them.

After a lot of discussion, I finally decided we fire all the bad ones immediately and the same day, no dragging it out. Let's rip off the bandaid. We'll identify the gaps and be ready to replace them at once.

So that Friday, we did it. We fired 30% of the company. All of them had either personally bad attitudes or just bad attitudes about doing any work. You were a marginal worker, it was your bad attitude that got you fired.

Here's what you didn't know because you were gone. You know how many of you we had to replace? Zero. It wasn't just you I didn't replace, I didn't need to replace any of you. The place seemed so much roomier and wow, it was so much more enjoyable being there without the lazy, useless and bad attitudes. Over time we replaced you as we grew, but that Friday you all left, your pay and benefits were all just savings

Turns out, your good employees were spending a bunch of their time corrected the errors of the bad apples, I'll bet. Without the lousy co-workers, they probably had more time to be effective at their own jobs.

Yes, that's exactly what was happening as I learned. They said their jobs were actually easier

I can understand that. When I was hired at my current job, there were three people doing more or less what I do, including myself. One of them was useless AND a pain in the ass. We got rid of her right after I was hired, and never missed her. A couple of months ago, the company got rid of the other guy, and I just absorbed his work. He was very nice, but I spent a good part of my day checking his work because he was careless and didn't have the best grasp of spelling and grammar. It's actually easier and faster for me to do all the work myself than to do my job and double-check his.

Now if that will just translate into a pay raise, since I'm basically doing single-handedly what originally had three people assigned to it . . .

In recent years, I've found employers give raises to people they want to keep and feel they will loose them it they don't. The last full time job I had before I retired I told my employer I had to have a raise or I was leaving. I got the raise in my next paycheck. I don't think it was like that 50 years ago. People seem to get raises because they proved their worth.

 

[danielpalos]

You're ultimately not benefiting children through policies which encourage people to put them in risky situations in order to use them as human shields. When there are no ideal choices, you have to go with the one which is least-bad for everyone involved.

I don't understand who it is you are criticizing here. What policies encourage people to put children in risky situations? Whose policies? are you referring to?

US immigration policies which give adults a pass on incarceration and prosecution when they're caught if they have children with them only encourage more people to drag children along on their border-crossings. The leftists' short-term, emotion-driven concept of "Awwww, the poor little kiddies" SOUNDS good - to them, anyway - but ultimately encourages people to put more children at risk.

Our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror merely create more of the problem the right wing likes to complain about.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Guy, you couldn't afford me... I probably wouldn't have sent your chicken shit company a resume...

You're a bottom feeder who doesn't even offer health insurance.

I watch little companies like yours go out of business because of their half-assery all the time.

You already told me your max salary was $80K. Now you make less than $25K. It's not the money I can't afford, that's for sure. I wouldn't do you to my staff though.

After I had bought and merged three companies, I had picked up a lot of good employees and of course a lot of dead wood. I was working with my management team on our plan to replace the bad staff. But we didn't know how many people we would need to replace them.

After a lot of discussion, I finally decided we fire all the bad ones immediately and the same day, no dragging it out. Let's rip off the bandaid. We'll identify the gaps and be ready to replace them at once.

So that Friday, we did it. We fired 30% of the company. All of them had either personally bad attitudes or just bad attitudes about doing any work. You were a marginal worker, it was your bad attitude that got you fired.

Here's what you didn't know because you were gone. You know how many of you we had to replace? Zero. It wasn't just you I didn't replace, I didn't need to replace any of you. The place seemed so much roomier and wow, it was so much more enjoyable being there without the lazy, useless and bad attitudes. Over time we replaced you as we grew, but that Friday you all left, your pay and benefits were all just savings

Turns out, your good employees were spending a bunch of their time corrected the errors of the bad apples, I'll bet. Without the lousy co-workers, they probably had more time to be effective at their own jobs.

Yes, that's exactly what was happening as I learned. They said their jobs were actually easier

I can understand that. When I was hired at my current job, there were three people doing more or less what I do, including myself. One of them was useless AND a pain in the ass. We got rid of her right after I was hired, and never missed her. A couple of months ago, the company got rid of the other guy, and I just absorbed his work. He was very nice, but I spent a good part of my day checking his work because he was careless and didn't have the best grasp of spelling and grammar. It's actually easier and faster for me to do all the work myself than to do my job and double-check his.

Now if that will just translate into a pay raise, since I'm basically doing single-handedly what originally had three people assigned to it . . .

In recent years, I've found employers give raises to people they want to keep and feel they will loose them it they don't. The last full time job I had before I retired I told my employer I had to have a raise or I was leaving. I got the raise in my next paycheck. I don't think it was like that 50 years ago. People seem to get raises because they proved their worth.

I understand that's the plan, because they DON'T want to lose me. However, things process very slowly, due to the spread-out nature of our company. The owner is in Israel, the manager-uber-alles is in another city here in the US, and the manager and supervisor with whom I actually work are here in Phoenix. Bit of a logistics hassle, and since I have no desire to leave, it's a bit difficult for me to push it effectively.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then you do things your way and we'll do things ours. My tax dollars do not go to the rich either. They may keep more of their own money, but they are not getting mine unless I personally give it to them. You leftists really believe that all money belongs to government instead of the individual. That's a very disturbing way of thinking.

Um, last time I checked, money was issued by the government.

Here's where you are not terribly bright, Ray. Every time the GOP cuts taxes for rich people, they usually find ways for you to pay more. For instance, most of that $18.00 you got in tax cuts will be eaten up by Trump's new tariffs...

The government issues notes, it does not (or is not supposed to) keep what you earn and redistribute it the way they like.

If my tax cuts are eaten up, then that's fine as long as it brings more jobs to the US. After all, in my line of work, I depend on successful and busy companies. The more they work, the more work they have for our company.

However when Democrats take, they usually give nothing in return. They take from the responsible working and give it to the irresponsible non-working or those who work very little.

Every time Democrats get leadership, it somehow costs me more money. When Republicans are in charge, I may not get more money, but at least it's not costing me any money either.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The court seen it differently......at least in the last case.

The US Constitution protects your right to practice your religion as you see fit. Homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible and even Koran. In fact very few religions accept a gay relationship of any kind.

It's less a personal prejudice than it is a religious one. There are no exemptions for freedom of religion just because you own a business.

So when do I get to start cutting people's hearts out to appease Queztacoatl?

If you have to go there, it only shows your desperation. As I pointed out to you earlier, freedom of religion does not negate laws--especially laws that severely hurt or kill people. Your comparison is as stupid as saying Christians should be allowed to execute gays.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Okay, but the reason for that is is not because they want to "Wipe out White People", but because after Nixon and the Southern Strategy, the GOP decided that they were going to play on White insecurities...

This is as obvious as the nose on your face. Why would the Democrats be so hell bent on stopping the wall they would even shutdown the government for it? Why did they stop Kate's Law; a law that would have imprisoned foreign felons who returned after deportation? Why would they be fighting like hell to keep their sanctuary cities?

There is only one reason for this, because it sure as hell doesn't benefit this country--it benefits the Democrat party.

They can't tell you their real reasons, but then again, when are they ever honest with their constituents?

Oh, noes, we might actually be able to get you health insurance, and that would be awful!!! Here's the thing, if Capitalism weren't such a shit sandwich for those of us who do the work, then the GOP wouldn't need racism to sell it.

When did the Republicans ever use racism to sell capitalism? Have any examples? We've been a capitalist society for many years Joe. It's not a new concept. If you didn't get ahead in the capitalist system, it probably means you never been involved in capitalism. You get your paycheck, spend it or save some, and never invest a dime of your personal money outside of a savings account.

 

[Coyote]

People keep insisting the parents are horrible for parents for attempting to illegally immigrate with their children. I saw this meme and boy...it says all that needs to be said.

(disclaimer - not an endorsement of open borders etc - just maybe we shouldn't be so judgemental on the people that are fleeing horrible situations, it's not a decision undertake lightly).

 

[Coyote]

''ghh

You're ultimately not benefiting children through policies which encourage people to put them in risky situations in order to use them as human shields. When there are no ideal choices, you have to go with the one which is least-bad for everyone involved.

I don't understand who it is you are criticizing here. What policies encourage people to put children in risky situations? Whose policies? are you referring to?

US immigration policies which give adults a pass on incarceration and prosecution when they're caught if they have children with them only encourage more people to drag children along on their border-crossings. The leftists' short-term, emotion-driven concept of "Awwww, the poor little kiddies" SOUNDS good - to them, anyway - but ultimately encourages people to put more children at risk.

What if the risk to the child is greater if they are left behind?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

again, only for the bigots... the Majority of Americans looked at the Orange Shitgibbon and said 'no'.

The sad thing is, it used to be that when a political party shit the bed and nominated someone who had no business being president (Goldwater, McGovern) enough people crossed party lines to decisively beat them, and the stupidity of the Electoral College didn't matter.

This time, there were a crapload of Republicans who knew damned well Trump had no business being president, but went along anyway.

So what were they supposed to do, go against the vote of the people? Our electoral college votes according to how the voters voted. It can't be more fair than that.

It's a system that we've been using since damn near the founding of this country. The only reason Democrats don't like it now is because they are losing. Prior to that, they never complained about the EC.

Yeah, they are only brown people. Here was the thing, in the 1930's the Nazis weren't gassing the Jews, and someone like you said, "Not our problem".

The thing is, what is going on IS our problem, because of the refugees, and more importantly, it's our fault, because we encouraged the drug trade that is causing all the violence.

The LEAST we could do is take these people in.

How do we encourage the drug trade? So what you're saying is that they bring drugs into our country, killing tens of thousands of Americans every year, and we are supposed to reward them by accepting them into this country.

Only a liberal can have this distorted kind of thinking. Blame the USA first.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh, so you know all this even though we don't have one? My you are so good, in fact, you are so much better than all our agencies that said a wall would benefit them greatly; the same agencies that participated in the design of the wall that would help eliminate all the things you wrote above.

Actually, the agencies aren't saying that at all.

https://gizmodo.com/us-border-patrol-doesnt-want-a-wall-they-want-drones-an-1773661854

Even the conservative Cato Institute says a wall won't work.

Why the Wall Won't Work

Are you serious? Gizmodo for your evidence? Here, try a real source:

Border Patrol agents back Trump wall, survey finds

Your survey says they want a wall in strategic locations.

And????????

Meaning we do not need a wall across the country, only in strategic locations. We already have over 700 miles of reinforced fencing and areas that terrain is so bad, or border patrol presence is so large, or other factors that we have few crossings.

Trump even said only in strategic locations. Now that we have this problem with people using asylum to get in, we need it more than ever now. As for the older borders, those need to be torn down and rebuilt using the latest technology.

 

[MikeK]

Our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror merely create more of the problem the right wing likes to complain about.

I will agree with you that the so-called war on drugs is wholly counterproductive, operating to create more problems than it solves. But I fail to understand how fighting crime and terrorism is problematic.

If you disagree, please explain your position.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We desperately need more legal immigrants...

Incorrect. We are a nation of 330,000,000 - one third of a billion - we already have the intellect and the warm bodies to produce whatever we need.

Our birth rate is much too low. It just reached a 30 year low and if the trend continues as is likely, our birth rate will be less than the death rate within 10 to 15 years. We also have 10,000 people a day going into retirement and we are generating 150,000 to 250,000 jobs a month. Immigration is limited to about 680,000 a year. Do the math. If we're going to continue to grow, we are going to need a lot more people in the 21 century.

What is this obsession with having to grow? Do you realize we had over a 100 million less people here in 1970 than we do today and we did just fine? And that was back in the day where automation wasn't even a concern.

A republican trumpster is asking about the need for growth? That's usually something we hear from liberal environmentalists.

Our economy is based on consumption and increased production of goods and services which is closely linked to growth in population. You need more people to consume and you need more people to produce otherwise you have no economic growth.

Okay, so we have 320 million now. What about 400 million? And if 400 million is good, then 700 million is better, right? And if 700 million is good, then 1.3 billion is the best, right?

 

[MikeK]

What if the risk to the child is greater if they are left behind?

Then don't leave them behind. Stay with them, which is the logically natural position. Borders exist for a reason. To illegally cross a border is a crime -- kids or no kids.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

People keep insisting the parents are horrible for parents for attempting to illegally immigrate with their children. I saw this meme and boy...it says all that needs to be said.

(disclaimer - not an endorsement of open borders etc - just maybe we shouldn't be so judgemental on the people that are fleeing horrible situations, it's not a decision undertake lightly).

View attachment 201075

It's so funny how the left tries to use religion when they think it supports their cause. Other than that, it's a false belief about a magic man in the sky.

So how many countries would you like to move into the US Coyote? Two, three, ten? How many?

 

[basquebromance]

Trump manufactured the immigration issue so he can win the midterms. he is using the demise of children for his own political gain, which is sick.

don't get distracted, Democrats. stay focused on issues where Trump is vulnerable like the economy and North Korea and issues Americans care about like Stormy Daniels and Russia, and you will win in a landslide.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Trump manufactured the immigration issue so he can win the midterms. he is using the demise of children for his own political gain, which is sick.

don't get distracted, Democrats. stay focused on issues where Trump is vulnerable like the economy and North Korea and issues Americans care about like Stormy Daniels and Russia, and you will win in a landslide.

/——/ Yeah, there was no illegals scampering over the border till Trump was sworn in. Proven fact Bwhahahaha Bwhahahaha

 

[Cecilie1200]

People keep insisting the parents are horrible for parents for attempting to illegally immigrate with their children. I saw this meme and boy...it says all that needs to be said.

(disclaimer - not an endorsement of open borders etc - just maybe we shouldn't be so judgemental on the people that are fleeing horrible situations, it's not a decision undertake lightly).

View attachment 201075

Boy, Joseph and Mary didn't break any laws. I realize that you consider this a mere nothing - why the fuck do people keep bringing it up like it's IMPORTANT, or something?! - but it's actually sort of relevant.

Just MAYBE we should stop drawing false analogies and conflating multiple types of people into one big, amorphous mass for the sole purpose of confusing the issue, because our agenda is best served by obfuscation, confusion, hostility, and outright lying (and by "we", I mean YOU, Coyote). I realize that to you, all brown people look alike, and they don't REALLY matter except as tools to be used to get your way, but there actually is a difference between legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, and refugees. They ARE NOT comparable to each other.

Joseph and Mary were refugees. No one here has a problem with real, actual refugees, who DO NOT need to break our laws in any way to gain asylum.

The more you try to substitute hysterical emotionalism for actual thought, the more I know you're full of shit, and aware of it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

''ghh

You're ultimately not benefiting children through policies which encourage people to put them in risky situations in order to use them as human shields. When there are no ideal choices, you have to go with the one which is least-bad for everyone involved.

I don't understand who it is you are criticizing here. What policies encourage people to put children in risky situations? Whose policies? are you referring to?

US immigration policies which give adults a pass on incarceration and prosecution when they're caught if they have children with them only encourage more people to drag children along on their border-crossings. The leftists' short-term, emotion-driven concept of "Awwww, the poor little kiddies" SOUNDS good - to them, anyway - but ultimately encourages people to put more children at risk.

What if the risk to the child is greater if they are left behind?

Give me an example of the risk to the child being so great that it outweighs being smuggled illegally across the border, AND absolutely requires that the family sneak across the border, rather than asking for asylum through the proper legal methods.

By all means, share with me your latest hypothetical sob story that bears no relation to reality. I'm all agog.

 

[MikeK]

Trump manufactured the immigration issue so he can win the midterms. he is using the demise of children for his own political gain, which is sick.

don't get distracted, Democrats. stay focused on issues where Trump is vulnerable like the economy and North Korea and issues Americans care about like Stormy Daniels and Russia, and you will win in a landslide.

Trump manufactured the immigration issue??? Where did he get all the Muslims and Beaners? Did he truck them in?

Re: Stormy Daniels: Who really gives a damn? Did the Democrats really care when President Blowjob got caught?

Re: North Korea: At the very least, Trump has put the little dictator in his place.

Re: Russia: The best thing we can do is form a strong conditional alliance with Russia for the express purpose of controlling the growing Islamic threat.

So all in all, Mr. Trump is looking pretty good. The spiteful nonsense being spewed by Liberal interests is impotent.

 

[basquebromance]

Trump manufactured the immigration issue so he can win the midterms. he is using the demise of children for his own political gain, which is sick.

don't get distracted, Democrats. stay focused on issues where Trump is vulnerable like the economy and North Korea and issues Americans care about like Stormy Daniels and Russia, and you will win in a landslide.

Trump manufactured the immigration issue??? Where did he get all the Muslims and Beaners? Did he truck them in?

Re: Stormy Daniels: Who really gives a damn? Did the Democrats really care when President Blowjob got caught?

Re: North Korea: At the very least, Trump has put the little dictator in his place.

Re: Russia: The best thing we can do is form a strong conditional alliance with Russia for the express purpose of controlling the growing Islamic threat.

So all in all, Mr. Trump is looking pretty good. The spiteful nonsense being spewed by Liberal interests is impotent.

i was being sarcastic, dummy. the opposite of what i said is true. liberals are the ones who manufactured this issue, OBVIOUSLY.