Zone1 What has been Lost, What has been Gained?

[Meriweather]

What has been lost by Protestants leaving the Catholic Church? What has been gained?

What has been lost by Christianity leaving Judaism? What has been gained?

What has been lost by being atheist? What has been gained?


Starting with Christianity leaving Judaism, was has been lost is a true understanding of the Old Testament. I've learned more about the Old Testament by studying commentaries of Jewish scholars and rabbis. In losing this understanding, we also miss some of the beauty of the New Testament.

 

[Woodznutz]

That is shocking to hear since the Jews have totally corrupted the meanings of the Old Testament, especially the Holy Days, which reveal Jesus Christ.

 

[Anathema]

I can tell you what I’ve lost and gained by leaving the Protestant (Lutheran) Church in favor of the Spiritual Path I found

LOST:
Camaraderie
Sense of Belonging
Liturgy

GAINED:
Truth
Time
Peace of Mind
Financial freedom
Acceptance

 

[Woodznutz]

I can tell you what I’ve lost and gained by leaving the Protestant (Lutheran) Church in favor of the Spiritual Path I found

LOST:
Camaraderie
Sense of Belonging
Liturgy

GAINED:
Truth
Time
Peace of Mind
Financial freedom
Acceptance

Interesting. In church I gained everything that you gained and lost and then some. I'm no longer a member of "a" church but I've kept everything that I've gained.

 

[Meriweather]

That is shocking to hear since the Jews have totally corrupted the meanings of the Old Testament

Wrong

especially the Holy Days, which reveal Jesus Christ.

Jewish Holy Days commemorate Jewish history. Jesus shines a light on this history and the path forward. Studying the past gives a glimpse into the future.

 

[Meriweather]

I can tell you what I’ve lost and gained by leaving the Protestant (Lutheran) Church in favor of the Spiritual Path I found

LOST:
Camaraderie
Sense of Belonging
Liturgy

GAINED:
Truth
Time
Peace of Mind
Financial freedom
Acceptance

I remain puzzled in why your gains could not be found in the Lutheran Church?

 

[Woodznutz]

Wrong

Jewish Holy Days commemorate Jewish history. Jesus shines a light on this history and the path forward. Studying the past gives a glimpse into the future.

The Jews have added their own and corrupted the Holy days that were commanded to all Israel. Ask some Jews if the Holy days reveal Jesus Christ. They'll look at you like you have two heads.

 

[Meriweather]

The Jews have added their own and corrupted the Holy days that were commanded to all Israel. Ask some Jews if the Holy days reveal Jesus Christ. They'll look at you like you have two heads.

Ask a Jew what is revealed and celebrated in their Holy Days. Listening is sufficient.

 

[Anathema]

I remain puzzled in why your gains could not be found in the Lutheran Church?

Probably at least in part because of my family. You can’t wave a hand in either side of my family without hitting at least two church workers…. Pastors, choir members, church musicians, church school teachers, elders, etc…

That meant growing up spending most as much time in the church building as I did at school. It also meant a major expectation of personal investment of time, money and energy into the church upon becoming an adult. As I grew up my personal beliefs and experiences began to differ from the message the church was offering. That left me questioning things, and therefore not being as accepted in a church body that doesn’t exactly believe in questioning things.

 

[Woodznutz]

Ask a Jew what is revealed and celebrated in their Holy Days. Listening is sufficient.

I'm more interested in what is revealed and celebrated in God's Holy days. The "Jewish" holy days suggest the inbred nature of their beliefs.

 

[Woodznutz]

Probably at least in part because of my family. You can’t wave a hand in either side of my family without hitting at least two church workers…. Pastors, choir members, church musicians, church school teachers, elders, etc…

That meant growing up spending most as much time in the church building as I did at school. It also meant a major expectation of personal investment of time, money and energy into the church upon becoming an adult. As I grew up my personal beliefs and experiences began to differ from the message the church was offering. That left me questioning things, and therefore not being as accepted in a church body that doesn’t exactly believe in questioning things.

True. Even mainstream churches can become cultlike in sucking the blood out of their members. Many pastors see their flock not as sheep to feed, but to fleece; a work force to further their personal 'spiritual' agendas, often with endless 'outreach' programs that drain the time, energy, and money from their members.

 

[Meriweather]

Probably at least in part because of my family. You can’t wave a hand in either side of my family without hitting at least two church workers…. Pastors, choir members, church musicians, church school teachers, elders, etc…

That meant growing up spending most as much time in the church building as I did at school. It also meant a major expectation of personal investment of time, money and energy into the church upon becoming an adult. As I grew up my personal beliefs and experiences began to differ from the message the church was offering. That left me questioning things, and therefore not being as accepted in a church body that doesn’t exactly believe in questioning things.

The Catholic faith handles this differently. Undoubtedly, the Church welcomes and needs the help of its members. But what if...what if one does not feel a call to any of these ministries? Then the question becomes, What is God calling one to be, calling one to do? If we don't hear that answer in/from church, what are we hearing from God? If sometimes we hear, "Let me take care of you," that is what we need to heed.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm more interested in what is revealed and celebrated in God's Holy days.

"Let's go out, criticize, and bash Jewish beliefs" is not what is being revealed and celebrated. What the Holy Days of God reveal (and all days are holy) is God in our midst.

 

[Woodznutz]

The Catholic faith handles this differently. Undoubtedly, the Church welcomes and needs the help of its members. But what if...what if one does not feel a call to any of these ministries? Then the question becomes, What is God calling one to be, calling one to do? If we don't hear that answer in/from church, what are we hearing from God? If sometimes we hear, "Let me take care of you," that is what we need to heed.

If you aren't inspired to join ministry, after a time, you are probably doing what God wants you to be doing. At the end of the day, I have no energy for a church "outreach" program. I just send a check.

 

[Woodznutz]

"Let's go out, criticize, and bash Jewish beliefs" is not what is being revealed and celebrated. What the Holy Days of God reveal (and all days are holy) is God in our midst.

Only Holy days that are sanctified by God are "holy".

The Jewish God is in the midst of the Jews. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is in the midst of the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", the Christian church.

 

[Meriweather]

The Jewish God is in the midst of the Jews. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is in the midst of the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", the Christian church.

There is One--and only One--God. He is in our midst, and by that I mean in the midst of all His creation.

 

[Anathema]

True. Even mainstream churches can become cultlike in sucking the blood out of their members. Many pastors see their flock not as sheep to feed, but to fleece; a work force to further their personal 'spiritual' agendas, often with endless 'outreach' programs that drain the time, energy, and money from their members.

It wasn’t that. It was more the family expectations to be highly involved in the congregation locally and the church body at large.

My issues with one specific pastor (not a family member) was definitely with that individual specifically, and with their followers, not with the church in general.

 

[Anathema]

The Catholic faith handles this differently. Undoubtedly, the Church welcomes and needs the help of its members. But what if...what if one does not feel a call to any of these ministries? Then the question becomes, What is God calling one to be, calling one to do? If we don't hear that answer in/from church, what are we hearing from God? If sometimes we hear, "Let me take care of you," that is what we need to heed.

That’s a very different ideology than what I grew up with. I had to be damn near on my death bed to be allowed to miss services, Sunday school, confirmation ckssses, etc… Holy Week was basically spent at church full time. No exceptions.

 

[Woodznutz]

There is One--and only One--God. He is in our midst, and by that I mean in the midst of all His creation.

I think of God as an 'absentee landlord' at this time in history. He going to let this kettle boil until just before it boils over.

 

[Woodznutz]

"Let's go out, criticize, and bash Jewish beliefs" is not what is being revealed and celebrated. What the Holy Days of God reveal (and all days are holy) is God in our midst.

What is the evidence of God's active presence?