What Happened to Church?

[Cecilie1200]

So have you found a church yet??

Oh, yeah. Sorry, thought I'd made that clear. My son and I have been attending the last church I mentioned visiting, although I had to miss Sunday morning, because I wasn't feeling well. We've finally worked out a system to allow us to attend Wednesday nights, because getting me all the way home from work, dinner eaten, and then us back to the church on time is not really possible. Now that I've been hired permanently by my employer, with a nice raise, I have room in the budget for my older son to bring his brother and meet me there, and we can just have dinner someplace in the area before church.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm kind of bummed...our pastor is retiring.

The pastor at my new church just retired, and I arrived right in the middle of their hiring search.

 

[koshergrl]

I'm kind of bummed...our pastor is retiring.

The pastor at my new church just retired, and I arrived right in the middle of their hiring search.

That's actually kind of nice when it's a new church. You have a voice and are on the same footing as the new pastor.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm kind of bummed...our pastor is retiring.

The pastor at my new church just retired, and I arrived right in the middle of their hiring search.

That's actually kind of nice when it's a new church. You have a voice and are on the same footing as the new pastor.

True. I suspect I'm as much on tenterhooks as the longer-term members, although for slightly different reasons.

 

[SweetSue92]

Well, I'm glad that churches have a variety of worship styles. They do, however, need to be consistent and strong in spreading the entire Gospel message. It's a life changing message, not just a feel good thing.

If you want to lose weight, you have to change eating and exercise patterns and it makes you feel miserable for a while, but then you start realizing the benefits and you actually feel better.

When you become a Christian, God expects your life patterns to change, and that can be hard. But when you do, you start realizing the benefits and you would never go back.

So good people don't need god? Thanks for clearing that up.

You have no idea what's going on in the church today, yet you think you feel qualified to post on this thread. Interesting.

So it's not ok for me to ask questions precisely because I haven't gone to church since I was about 7 years old?

Well for my part--I know this wasn't directed at me--it's okay to ask questions even if you don't go to church. Sometimes that's the best way. Some people from our church meet in local gathering places around town, even PUBS (gasp!) to meet up with people to hang out and answer questions they have. All hard questions allowed.

I remember one time at our church, this one couple got up to say they love to go out on the weekend and play pool with friends, and sometimes they talk about hard stuff and God then. Husband has longer hair and a ponytail. These new visitors got up and walked out right then. I kinda thought, well bye then. That wasn't very nice I guess....but they would have been kinda judgey for my church.

FWIW we are not one of these non-denominational fog machine churches either. At all. Very Biblical. We just realize that we are like the people in the Bible. Screw ups. Church is for screw ups. Like us. I'm not just saying that.

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back again?

I don't know. If He is God, He could certainly do it.

I'm not very concerned about kangaroos. I'm more concerned about church and faith and God. Do you have questions like that, or just silly gotcha questions?

 

[SweetSue92]

Well, I'm glad that churches have a variety of worship styles. They do, however, need to be consistent and strong in spreading the entire Gospel message. It's a life changing message, not just a feel good thing.

If you want to lose weight, you have to change eating and exercise patterns and it makes you feel miserable for a while, but then you start realizing the benefits and you actually feel better.

When you become a Christian, God expects your life patterns to change, and that can be hard. But when you do, you start realizing the benefits and you would never go back.

So good people don't need god? Thanks for clearing that up.

You have no idea what's going on in the church today, yet you think you feel qualified to post on this thread. Interesting.

Taz is working something out in his/her own life, something that caused this pathological need to not only hate God and Christians, but to act it out as visibly as possible.

It is time for those who love God to put their faith where their mouths are, stop giving Taz the reaction he/she craves of (quite understandable) disgust and disdain, and simply pray that God give him/her the revelation he/she is capering around, demanding.

And yes, I am 100% serious. I have been tasked with praying for Taz every day, whenever I have any free time, and anyone else who believes in the power of prayer is welcome to join me.

I've been there before. About one more kangaroo question and I'll be there with you.

 

[SweetSue92]

You have no idea what's going on in the church today, yet you think you feel qualified to post on this thread. Interesting.

So it's not ok for me to ask questions precisely because I haven't gone to church since I was about 7 years old?

Well for my part--I know this wasn't directed at me--it's okay to ask questions even if you don't go to church. Sometimes that's the best way. Some people from our church meet in local gathering places around town, even PUBS (gasp!) to meet up with people to hang out and answer questions they have. All hard questions allowed.

I remember one time at our church, this one couple got up to say they love to go out on the weekend and play pool with friends, and sometimes they talk about hard stuff and God then. Husband has longer hair and a ponytail. These new visitors got up and walked out right then. I kinda thought, well bye then. That wasn't very nice I guess....but they would have been kinda judgey for my church.

FWIW we are not one of these non-denominational fog machine churches either. At all. Very Biblical. We just realize that we are like the people in the Bible. Screw ups. Church is for screw ups. Like us. I'm not just saying that.

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back again?

Just a quick aside. She said she is "Very Biblical". I had to test her. Won't take long.

Know one thing. You are not my "tester" in anything. However, the ego revealed in the green smile is predictable.

 

[Taz]

So good people don't need god? Thanks for clearing that up.

You have no idea what's going on in the church today, yet you think you feel qualified to post on this thread. Interesting.

So it's not ok for me to ask questions precisely because I haven't gone to church since I was about 7 years old?

You're not asking questions. You're making declarations disguised as questions. REAL questions involve the desire to find an answer.

I started out asking what you people give in the plate in today's church and nobody would answer. How come? I'm just curious. Something wrong with that?

I told you once. Go back through the thread. You'll find it.

Shut up, cheapskate. I’m not talking to you.

 

[SweetSue92]

These must be examples of you being such a good person.

Actually if you knew me, you'd find a million examples of me being generous and kind. Calling things out as they are is just reality. Too bad for you. Now go hug a Muslim and hope he doesn't blow up.

I've seen your racist posts, Taz. Don't piss on me and tell me it is raining.

Being realistic isn't racist. Now you know.

I like the fact that you run away from your beliefs. That means you know what you believe is fucked up.

You need me to be like that in your mind, otherwise, you'll go completely over the edge. Hope you feel better soon.

Proof positive that most unbelievers really think they are gods. I doubt very much that, except to pray for you, most of us give you a thought when we step away from our computers, and certainly not enough to "go completely over the edge". However, YOU really, really need to think that you're chipping away at our beliefs.

You need us. You might think about exploring why that is.

 

[ding]

These must be examples of you being such a good person.

Actually if you knew me, you'd find a million examples of me being generous and kind. Calling things out as they are is just reality. Too bad for you. Now go hug a Muslim and hope he doesn't blow up.

I've seen your racist posts, Taz. Don't piss on me and tell me it is raining.

Being realistic isn't racist. Now you know.

I like the fact that you run away from your beliefs. That means you know what you believe is fucked up.

You need me to be like that in your mind, otherwise, you'll go completely over the edge. Hope you feel better soon.

Not at all. I don't give you a second thought. I've read your racist posts. If you want to rationalize you are a "realist" instead of a racist, then that proves you know what you are doing is wrong. It also proves you have a moral law inside of you that you didn't put there and can't seem to get rid of.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Actually if you knew me, you'd find a million examples of me being generous and kind. Calling things out as they are is just reality. Too bad for you. Now go hug a Muslim and hope he doesn't blow up.

I've seen your racist posts, Taz. Don't piss on me and tell me it is raining.

Being realistic isn't racist. Now you know.

I like the fact that you run away from your beliefs. That means you know what you believe is fucked up.

You need me to be like that in your mind, otherwise, you'll go completely over the edge. Hope you feel better soon.

Proof positive that most unbelievers really think they are gods. I doubt very much that, except to pray for you, most of us give you a thought when we step away from our computers, and certainly not enough to "go completely over the edge". However, YOU really, really need to think that you're chipping away at our beliefs.

You need us. You might think about exploring why that is.

Truth is, I wouldn't even be praying for Taz if God hadn't metaphorically smacked me upside the head and told me to. God has people in His service who are all about the love and compassion and reaching out to others; I am not one of those people. I can only assume that if God went to enough effort to lay a burden on MY heart, powerful enough for me to take notice of it, something is seriously up. Several somethings.

Left to my own devices, I view Taz as the human equivalent of a mild skin rash.

 

[ding]

Oh, no. You came in here, capering around in your jester costume, demanding that everything and everyone focus on you, despite being told repeatedly to quit. I think you're very close to getting what you mistakenly and vainly claim to want.

Meanwhile, you will NOT continue to discuss your attempts to hijack the thread, nor am I under any obligation to let you do so. I suggest you re-read the forum rules about off-topic posts. This thread is not now, never has been, and never will be about your hatred of religion.

I don't hate religion , I just find them silly because they have no proof of god.

The proof is all around you. You just won't accept it because you are not ready to accept it. But the ultimate proof can only be found by entering into a relationship with God. Something you are unwilling to do. God is not a mystery to be solved, God is a relationship to be entered into. Only then will you discover his love for you and the power to transform yourself.

You said you don't understand god. So you don't know if you have a relationship with it or not. C'mon, man up.

That isn’t exactly what I said. Try again.

Can't even man up, princess.

I'm not sure what manning up has to do with you misstating what I wrote, Taz.

But I do find it ironic that YOU hide from YOUR racist comments and then accuse me of not manning up.

 

[SweetSue92]

I've seen your racist posts, Taz. Don't piss on me and tell me it is raining.

Being realistic isn't racist. Now you know.

I like the fact that you run away from your beliefs. That means you know what you believe is fucked up.

You need me to be like that in your mind, otherwise, you'll go completely over the edge. Hope you feel better soon.

Proof positive that most unbelievers really think they are gods. I doubt very much that, except to pray for you, most of us give you a thought when we step away from our computers, and certainly not enough to "go completely over the edge". However, YOU really, really need to think that you're chipping away at our beliefs.

You need us. You might think about exploring why that is.

Truth is, I wouldn't even be praying for Taz if God hadn't metaphorically smacked me upside the head and told me to. God has people in His service who are all about the love and compassion and reaching out to others; I am not one of those people. I can only assume that if God went to enough effort to lay a burden on MY heart, powerful enough for me to take notice of it, something is seriously up. Several somethings.

Left to my own devices, I view Taz as the human equivalent of a mild skin rash.

Me and you both, sister, on the compassionate side that is. I assume you're a sister by the username at any rate. I'm a decision-maker type, what is the right thing to do type. It has its finer points but I have to remind myself of compassion.

Glad you found a church! It's getting more and more difficult these days

 

[Cecilie1200]

Being realistic isn't racist. Now you know.

I like the fact that you run away from your beliefs. That means you know what you believe is fucked up.

You need me to be like that in your mind, otherwise, you'll go completely over the edge. Hope you feel better soon.

Proof positive that most unbelievers really think they are gods. I doubt very much that, except to pray for you, most of us give you a thought when we step away from our computers, and certainly not enough to "go completely over the edge". However, YOU really, really need to think that you're chipping away at our beliefs.

You need us. You might think about exploring why that is.

Truth is, I wouldn't even be praying for Taz if God hadn't metaphorically smacked me upside the head and told me to. God has people in His service who are all about the love and compassion and reaching out to others; I am not one of those people. I can only assume that if God went to enough effort to lay a burden on MY heart, powerful enough for me to take notice of it, something is seriously up. Several somethings.

Left to my own devices, I view Taz as the human equivalent of a mild skin rash.

Me and you both, sister, on the compassionate side that is. I assume you're a sister by the username at any rate. I'm a decision-maker type, what is the right thing to do type. It has its finer points but I have to remind myself of compassion.

Glad you found a church! It's getting more and more difficult these days

Heard that.

I'm usually a member of the "swift kick in the reality" brigade. I have no idea what God wants with Taz or why now, but He is the greatest multi-tasker ever, and it's already obvious one of His goals here is to expand my horizons.

 

[SweetSue92]

I like the fact that you run away from your beliefs. That means you know what you believe is fucked up.

You need me to be like that in your mind, otherwise, you'll go completely over the edge. Hope you feel better soon.

Proof positive that most unbelievers really think they are gods. I doubt very much that, except to pray for you, most of us give you a thought when we step away from our computers, and certainly not enough to "go completely over the edge". However, YOU really, really need to think that you're chipping away at our beliefs.

You need us. You might think about exploring why that is.

Truth is, I wouldn't even be praying for Taz if God hadn't metaphorically smacked me upside the head and told me to. God has people in His service who are all about the love and compassion and reaching out to others; I am not one of those people. I can only assume that if God went to enough effort to lay a burden on MY heart, powerful enough for me to take notice of it, something is seriously up. Several somethings.

Left to my own devices, I view Taz as the human equivalent of a mild skin rash.

Me and you both, sister, on the compassionate side that is. I assume you're a sister by the username at any rate. I'm a decision-maker type, what is the right thing to do type. It has its finer points but I have to remind myself of compassion.

Glad you found a church! It's getting more and more difficult these days

Heard that.

I'm usually a member of the "swift kick in the reality" brigade. I have no idea what God wants with Taz or why now, but He is the greatest multi-tasker ever, and it's already obvious one of His goals here is to expand my horizons.

Most all of the Internet Atheist Brigade think our faith is very light and weak. They think if they make a few snide remarks or ask a few difficult questions, they can pierce it and eventually destroy it.

For some, because this is how it happened to them, this is how they assume it must happen for everyone. At the very least, this reveals a certain paucity of imagination. It also reveals that they didn't have much faith to begin with. And we both know I don't mean faith like 'blind belief', which is how THEY think we use it. Because that's all they think faith is.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You need me to be like that in your mind, otherwise, you'll go completely over the edge. Hope you feel better soon.

Proof positive that most unbelievers really think they are gods. I doubt very much that, except to pray for you, most of us give you a thought when we step away from our computers, and certainly not enough to "go completely over the edge". However, YOU really, really need to think that you're chipping away at our beliefs.

You need us. You might think about exploring why that is.

Truth is, I wouldn't even be praying for Taz if God hadn't metaphorically smacked me upside the head and told me to. God has people in His service who are all about the love and compassion and reaching out to others; I am not one of those people. I can only assume that if God went to enough effort to lay a burden on MY heart, powerful enough for me to take notice of it, something is seriously up. Several somethings.

Left to my own devices, I view Taz as the human equivalent of a mild skin rash.

Me and you both, sister, on the compassionate side that is. I assume you're a sister by the username at any rate. I'm a decision-maker type, what is the right thing to do type. It has its finer points but I have to remind myself of compassion.

Glad you found a church! It's getting more and more difficult these days

Heard that.

I'm usually a member of the "swift kick in the reality" brigade. I have no idea what God wants with Taz or why now, but He is the greatest multi-tasker ever, and it's already obvious one of His goals here is to expand my horizons.

Most all of the Internet Atheist Brigade think our faith is very light and weak. They think if they make a few snide remarks or ask a few difficult questions, they can pierce it and eventually destroy it.

For some, because this is how it happened to them, this is how they assume it must happen for everyone. At the very least, this reveals a certain paucity of imagination. It also reveals that they didn't have much faith to begin with. And we both know I don't mean faith like 'blind belief', which is how THEY think we use it. Because that's all they think faith is.

Oh, it's not just people on the Internet. Look at virtually any cultural representation of Christians, be it movies, television, books . . . As far as they're concerned, Christians are falling away from God in droves over "crises of faith" that are mostly only crises to people observing Christianity from the outside.

And to bring it back around to my topic, this sort of thing is exactly why "drive-through Christianity" alarms and upsets me: because by trying to "modernize" itself to conform to the very last people in the world who should be setting standards, the Church is producing a generation of weak Christians who really are likely to fall down the first time things are rough.

 

[Taz]

So it's not ok for me to ask questions precisely because I haven't gone to church since I was about 7 years old?

You're not asking questions. You're making declarations disguised as questions. REAL questions involve the desire to find an answer.

I started out asking what you people give in the plate in today's church and nobody would answer. How come? I'm just curious. Something wrong with that?

Did you somehow miss the multiple times that you were told it's nosy, none of your business, off-topic, and shockingly crass and ill-mannered?

I'm fairly certain you were raised around human beings at least part of your life, so I fail to see how you could be so ignorant of basic social courtesies.

I was thinking of going to church and I just wanted to know what's appropriate these days to drop in the plate? How about a couple of pork chops?

Pork chops are off topic? Really?

 

[SweetSue92]

Proof positive that most unbelievers really think they are gods. I doubt very much that, except to pray for you, most of us give you a thought when we step away from our computers, and certainly not enough to "go completely over the edge". However, YOU really, really need to think that you're chipping away at our beliefs.

You need us. You might think about exploring why that is.

Truth is, I wouldn't even be praying for Taz if God hadn't metaphorically smacked me upside the head and told me to. God has people in His service who are all about the love and compassion and reaching out to others; I am not one of those people. I can only assume that if God went to enough effort to lay a burden on MY heart, powerful enough for me to take notice of it, something is seriously up. Several somethings.

Left to my own devices, I view Taz as the human equivalent of a mild skin rash.

Me and you both, sister, on the compassionate side that is. I assume you're a sister by the username at any rate. I'm a decision-maker type, what is the right thing to do type. It has its finer points but I have to remind myself of compassion.

Glad you found a church! It's getting more and more difficult these days

Heard that.

I'm usually a member of the "swift kick in the reality" brigade. I have no idea what God wants with Taz or why now, but He is the greatest multi-tasker ever, and it's already obvious one of His goals here is to expand my horizons.

Most all of the Internet Atheist Brigade think our faith is very light and weak. They think if they make a few snide remarks or ask a few difficult questions, they can pierce it and eventually destroy it.

For some, because this is how it happened to them, this is how they assume it must happen for everyone. At the very least, this reveals a certain paucity of imagination. It also reveals that they didn't have much faith to begin with. And we both know I don't mean faith like 'blind belief', which is how THEY think we use it. Because that's all they think faith is.

Oh, it's not just people on the Internet. Look at virtually any cultural representation of Christians, be it movies, television, books . . . As far as they're concerned, Christians are falling away from God in droves over "crises of faith" that are mostly only crises to people observing Christianity from the outside.

And to bring it back around to my topic, this sort of thing is exactly why "drive-through Christianity" alarms and upsets me: because by trying to "modernize" itself to conform to the very last people in the world who should be setting standards, the Church is producing a generation of weak Christians who really are likely to fall down the first time things are rough.

I could not agree more. And in doing so, they are taking away the most important parts of Christianity that make it unique and vital. For starters: Jesus Christ.

 

[Taz]

So good people don't need god? Thanks for clearing that up.

You have no idea what's going on in the church today, yet you think you feel qualified to post on this thread. Interesting.

So it's not ok for me to ask questions precisely because I haven't gone to church since I was about 7 years old?

Well for my part--I know this wasn't directed at me--it's okay to ask questions even if you don't go to church. Sometimes that's the best way. Some people from our church meet in local gathering places around town, even PUBS (gasp!) to meet up with people to hang out and answer questions they have. All hard questions allowed.

I remember one time at our church, this one couple got up to say they love to go out on the weekend and play pool with friends, and sometimes they talk about hard stuff and God then. Husband has longer hair and a ponytail. These new visitors got up and walked out right then. I kinda thought, well bye then. That wasn't very nice I guess....but they would have been kinda judgey for my church.

FWIW we are not one of these non-denominational fog machine churches either. At all. Very Biblical. We just realize that we are like the people in the Bible. Screw ups. Church is for screw ups. Like us. I'm not just saying that.

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back again?

I don't know. If He is God, He could certainly do it.

I'm not very concerned about kangaroos. I'm more concerned about church and faith and God. Do you have questions like that, or just silly gotcha questions?

I'm trying to figure out if the bible is true.

 

[ding]

You're not asking questions. You're making declarations disguised as questions. REAL questions involve the desire to find an answer.

I started out asking what you people give in the plate in today's church and nobody would answer. How come? I'm just curious. Something wrong with that?

Did you somehow miss the multiple times that you were told it's nosy, none of your business, off-topic, and shockingly crass and ill-mannered?

I'm fairly certain you were raised around human beings at least part of your life, so I fail to see how you could be so ignorant of basic social courtesies.

I was thinking of going to church and I just wanted to know what's appropriate these days to drop in the plate? How about a couple of pork chops?

Pork chops are off topic? Really?

Let me clear up your confusion, Taz. Dropping pork chops in the collection plate would not be appropriate. Bringing frozen pork chops for a food drive would be appropriate. Or better yet, personally delivering pork chops to a family in need would be even better as this would be the most effective form of subsidiarity and charity. You're welcome.