CDZ What happened to America's Conservative Values?

[Dr Grump]

We have never been a Democracy. Nor should we. Democracy has always sucked. Go look throughout all human history, you'll see that Democracies have always been violent and tyrannical, and rarely last that long.

If we were to move to Democracy completely, the country would implode.

As a noun, you are a democracy. Suck it up princess. And a Republic, too.
"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

 

[Dr Grump]

President Trump and lieutenant governor Daniel Patrick asking the elderly to sacrifice their lives to save the economy. Asking old people to die for the gross national product is....well....gross.

How long do we need to remain locked down so that no old people ever die?

When they discover the Fountain of Youth!

 

[BlueGin]

President Trump and lieutenant governor Daniel Patrick asking the elderly to sacrifice their lives to save the economy. Asking old people to die for the gross national product is....well....gross.

How long do we need to remain locked down so that no old people ever die?

It’s okay if they die as long as they serve their purpose in the lefts view. 1) increase COVID numbers so they can keep lockdown in place. 2) They can blame Trump.

 

[sakinago]

“Conservative Values”

An oxymoron if there ever was one.

Conservative, as in conserve time tested values. You don’t progress to those values, progressive values is the oxymoron. Conservatives want to conserve the constitution, progressives want to progress away from it, or else there’d be nowhere to progress too because we’re already there. Get it

Presupposing that to be true, what politician has said they believe in the Constitution as originally written and intended? What politician has vowed to oppose any legislation that increases the size, power and scope of government? What politician has done either of those things?

Effectively all on both side avow to believe in it. Few actually act that out however, and they all are on the right. The only one close to the left is Justin Amash. Cruz, Lee, Paul are the biggest names out there, with a few others in the senate, and many more in congress. What’s your point here? That because few actually care, why bother?

 

[sakinago]

We have never been a Democracy. Nor should we. Democracy has always sucked. Go look throughout all human history, you'll see that Democracies have always been violent and tyrannical, and rarely last that long.

If we were to move to Democracy completely, the country would implode.

As a noun, you are a democracy. Suck it up princess. And a Republic, too.
"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

There is a stark difference between pure democracy, which he was referring too, and a republic. I feel like I shouldn’t have to explain it. Why on earth does the left want pure democracy? Tyranny of the majority is all fine and dandy until you’re eventually a minority on something. Even in a republic the majority can still screw over the minority, slavery, Jim Crow, anyone?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

We have never been a Democracy. Nor should we. Democracy has always sucked. Go look throughout all human history, you'll see that Democracies have always been violent and tyrannical, and rarely last that long.

If we were to move to Democracy completely, the country would implode.

As a noun, you are a democracy. Suck it up princess. And a Republic, too.
"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

Wrong. That would be like saying a virgin whore. The Constitution guarantees to every state this Union a Republican Form of Government. If we don't have that, then the government is in violation of the law and the people have a Right to demand strict performance or simply remove themselves from the jurisdiction of an illegal government.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

“Conservative Values”

An oxymoron if there ever was one.

Conservative, as in conserve time tested values. You don’t progress to those values, progressive values is the oxymoron. Conservatives want to conserve the constitution, progressives want to progress away from it, or else there’d be nowhere to progress too because we’re already there. Get it

Presupposing that to be true, what politician has said they believe in the Constitution as originally written and intended? What politician has vowed to oppose any legislation that increases the size, power and scope of government? What politician has done either of those things?

Effectively all on both side avow to believe in it. Few actually act that out however, and they all are on the right. The only one close to the left is Justin Amash. Cruz, Lee, Paul are the biggest names out there, with a few others in the senate, and many more in congress. What’s your point here? That because few actually care, why bother?

You said those guys were close. Close only counts in horseshoes. NEITHER side believes in it. Democrats believe in gun control, universal healthcare, and forced multiculturalism. Republicans support the POLICE STATE, National ID / REAL ID Act, the income tax, and assaults on unalienable Rights. That is my point.

 

[Dr Grump]

We have never been a Democracy. Nor should we. Democracy has always sucked. Go look throughout all human history, you'll see that Democracies have always been violent and tyrannical, and rarely last that long.

If we were to move to Democracy completely, the country would implode.

As a noun, you are a democracy. Suck it up princess. And a Republic, too.
"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

Wrong. That would be like saying a virgin whore. The Constitution guarantees to every state this Union a Republican Form of Government. If we don't have that, then the government is in violation of the law and the people have a Right to demand strict performance or simply remove themselves from the jurisdiction of an illegal government.

You are a republic. But you have a form of democratic govt.

 

[sakinago]

“Conservative Values”

An oxymoron if there ever was one.

Conservative, as in conserve time tested values. You don’t progress to those values, progressive values is the oxymoron. Conservatives want to conserve the constitution, progressives want to progress away from it, or else there’d be nowhere to progress too because we’re already there. Get it

Presupposing that to be true, what politician has said they believe in the Constitution as originally written and intended? What politician has vowed to oppose any legislation that increases the size, power and scope of government? What politician has done either of those things?

Effectively all on both side avow to believe in it. Few actually act that out however, and they all are on the right. The only one close to the left is Justin Amash. Cruz, Lee, Paul are the biggest names out there, with a few others in the senate, and many more in congress. What’s your point here? That because few actually care, why bother?

You said those guys were close. Close only counts in horseshoes. NEITHER side believes in it. Democrats believe in gun control, universal healthcare, and forced multiculturalism. Republicans support the POLICE STATE, National ID / REAL ID Act, the income tax, and assaults on unalienable Rights. That is my point.

Never said they were close, I’d say they’re about as good as it gets. I said Amash was more left leaning. Republicans in general one could argue they support the police state, IDs, but you’ll have to be specific which assaults on rights. That’s a blanket statement to blanket a very diverse group. Again, what is your point? Burn down the system? It’s got problems yes, but look around you. You’re living in the safest, most prosperous nation in history, where effectively all 320 million of us are in the top 1% in the world.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

We have never been a Democracy. Nor should we. Democracy has always sucked. Go look throughout all human history, you'll see that Democracies have always been violent and tyrannical, and rarely last that long.

If we were to move to Democracy completely, the country would implode.

As a noun, you are a democracy. Suck it up princess. And a Republic, too.
"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

Wrong. That would be like saying a virgin whore. The Constitution guarantees to every state this Union a Republican Form of Government. If we don't have that, then the government is in violation of the law and the people have a Right to demand strict performance or simply remove themselves from the jurisdiction of an illegal government.

You are a republic. But you have a form of democratic govt.

We are no longer a Republic. Otherwise, you would still have unalienable Rights.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

“Conservative Values”

An oxymoron if there ever was one.

Conservative, as in conserve time tested values. You don’t progress to those values, progressive values is the oxymoron. Conservatives want to conserve the constitution, progressives want to progress away from it, or else there’d be nowhere to progress too because we’re already there. Get it

Presupposing that to be true, what politician has said they believe in the Constitution as originally written and intended? What politician has vowed to oppose any legislation that increases the size, power and scope of government? What politician has done either of those things?

Effectively all on both side avow to believe in it. Few actually act that out however, and they all are on the right. The only one close to the left is Justin Amash. Cruz, Lee, Paul are the biggest names out there, with a few others in the senate, and many more in congress. What’s your point here? That because few actually care, why bother?

You said those guys were close. Close only counts in horseshoes. NEITHER side believes in it. Democrats believe in gun control, universal healthcare, and forced multiculturalism. Republicans support the POLICE STATE, National ID / REAL ID Act, the income tax, and assaults on unalienable Rights. That is my point.

Never said they were close, I’d say they’re about as good as it gets. I said Amash was more left leaning. Republicans in general one could argue they support the police state, IDs, but you’ll have to be specific which assaults on rights. That’s a blanket statement to blanket a very diverse group. Again, what is your point? Burn down the system? It’s got problems yes, but look around you. You’re living in the safest, most prosperous nation in history, where effectively all 320 million of us are in the top 1% in the world.

The Dems never thought this was a very good country. The Republicans are rushing to join the socialist bandwagon as fast as they can convert the low IQ types.

Republicans, as a group, gave you the income tax, the illegally ratified 14th Amendment, the creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security, the so - called "Patriot Act," the National ID / READ ID Act - E Verify, assaults on the Fourth Amendment, and an effective repeal of the Bill of Rights.

The Democrats want to hand America off to the third world; they are comfortable sharing the stage with socialists, and they want to help the Republicans on their road to tyranny by disarming the citizenry.

 

[Blues Man]

Whoever thinks the government can provide prosperity is a fool.

Whoever thinks unfettered capitalism can provide prosperity is also a fool.

We have never had unfettered capitalism

 

[Andylusion]

We have never been a Democracy. Nor should we. Democracy has always sucked. Go look throughout all human history, you'll see that Democracies have always been violent and tyrannical, and rarely last that long.

If we were to move to Democracy completely, the country would implode.

As a noun, you are a democracy. Suck it up princess. And a Republic, too.
"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

I get it that we are moving that direction, which is exactly why we're having the chaos we are having.

Remember, we were never supposed to vote on the President. You voted for your elected officials of your state. Then your "representatives" hence a "representative republic"... would determine who was President through the electoral college system.

Nor were we to vote on Senators or House Representatives.

Let me ask you something.... Why are Senators and Representatives in the House, spending months doing fund raisers?

It's because they have to mount these huge campaigns to drag people out to vote. They have to buy TV ads, and put up signs, and have pay interns to canvas the area.

How much would they have to spend, if they were elected by the state legislature?

Zero.

See? You complain about money in politics, when the reality is, if we followed the non-democracy method of a Representative Republic, that the founders intended.... we wouldn't need to worry about money in politics, because there wouldn't be any.

If I'm a Senator, and I'm elected by my state's legislature, I don't need money to campaign. So why am I going to take $10 Million from GE, for a tax break, when I don't need to campaign?

If you look at all the problems we have today, and compare them to the non-democracy system the founders created... none of them would exist.

Corruption in the ballots. Dead people voting. No one would spend the money, or risk getting caught, for a state house seat. Wouldn't be worth it.

That is only worth the risk and money, if you are going for a high level seat in D.C. Wouldn't happen under the founders system.

There would be no paying off special interest groups for political support, in a non-democracy Representative Republic. Since the president would be elected through the state electorial college, there is no benefit from having the Train Unions get billions from the 2009 Stimulus package. Their support would mean nothing.

 

[Andylusion]

Whoever thinks the government can provide prosperity is a fool.

Whoever thinks unfettered capitalism can provide prosperity is also a fool.

Name one example of unfettered Capitalism, that did not result in prosperity?

Every single time any country anywhere, takes a step towards Capitalism, prosperity follows.
Every single time any country anywhere, takes a step towards socialism, decline and poverty follows.

There is no example to the opposite of either of those.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We have never been a Democracy. Nor should we. Democracy has always sucked. Go look throughout all human history, you'll see that Democracies have always been violent and tyrannical, and rarely last that long.

If we were to move to Democracy completely, the country would implode.

As a noun, you are a democracy. Suck it up princess. And a Republic, too.
"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

I get it that we are moving that direction, which is exactly why we're having the chaos we are having.

Remember, we were never supposed to vote on the President. You voted for your elected officials of your state. Then your "representatives" hence a "representative republic"... would determine who was President through the electoral college system.

Nor were we to vote on Senators or House Representatives.

Let me ask you something.... Why are Senators and Representatives in the House, spending months doing fund raisers?

It's because they have to mount these huge campaigns to drag people out to vote. They have to buy TV ads, and put up signs, and have pay interns to canvas the area.

How much would they have to spend, if they were elected by the state legislature?

Zero.

See? You complain about money in politics, when the reality is, if we followed the non-democracy method of a Representative Republic, that the founders intended.... we wouldn't need to worry about money in politics, because there wouldn't be any.

If I'm a Senator, and I'm elected by my state's legislature, I don't need money to campaign. So why am I going to take $10 Million from GE, for a tax break, when I don't need to campaign?

If you look at all the problems we have today, and compare them to the non-democracy system the founders created... none of them would exist.

Corruption in the ballots. Dead people voting. No one would spend the money, or risk getting caught, for a state house seat. Wouldn't be worth it.

That is only worth the risk and money, if you are going for a high level seat in D.C. Wouldn't happen under the founders system.

There would be no paying off special interest groups for political support, in a non-democracy Representative Republic. Since the president would be elected through the state electorial college, there is no benefit from having the Train Unions get billions from the 2009 Stimulus package. Their support would mean nothing.

Nor were we to vote on Senators or House Representatives.

Half right.

 

[Andylusion]

We have never been a Democracy. Nor should we. Democracy has always sucked. Go look throughout all human history, you'll see that Democracies have always been violent and tyrannical, and rarely last that long.

If we were to move to Democracy completely, the country would implode.

As a noun, you are a democracy. Suck it up princess. And a Republic, too.
"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

I get it that we are moving that direction, which is exactly why we're having the chaos we are having.

Remember, we were never supposed to vote on the President. You voted for your elected officials of your state. Then your "representatives" hence a "representative republic"... would determine who was President through the electoral college system.

Nor were we to vote on Senators or House Representatives.

Let me ask you something.... Why are Senators and Representatives in the House, spending months doing fund raisers?

It's because they have to mount these huge campaigns to drag people out to vote. They have to buy TV ads, and put up signs, and have pay interns to canvas the area.

How much would they have to spend, if they were elected by the state legislature?

Zero.

See? You complain about money in politics, when the reality is, if we followed the non-democracy method of a Representative Republic, that the founders intended.... we wouldn't need to worry about money in politics, because there wouldn't be any.

If I'm a Senator, and I'm elected by my state's legislature, I don't need money to campaign. So why am I going to take $10 Million from GE, for a tax break, when I don't need to campaign?

If you look at all the problems we have today, and compare them to the non-democracy system the founders created... none of them would exist.

Corruption in the ballots. Dead people voting. No one would spend the money, or risk getting caught, for a state house seat. Wouldn't be worth it.

That is only worth the risk and money, if you are going for a high level seat in D.C. Wouldn't happen under the founders system.

There would be no paying off special interest groups for political support, in a non-democracy Representative Republic. Since the president would be elected through the state electorial college, there is no benefit from having the Train Unions get billions from the 2009 Stimulus package. Their support would mean nothing.

Nor were we to vote on Senators or House Representatives.

Half right.

Only Senators? Was it a direct vote for House Representatives? I thought it was only state house representatives.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We have never been a Democracy. Nor should we. Democracy has always sucked. Go look throughout all human history, you'll see that Democracies have always been violent and tyrannical, and rarely last that long.

If we were to move to Democracy completely, the country would implode.

As a noun, you are a democracy. Suck it up princess. And a Republic, too.
"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

I get it that we are moving that direction, which is exactly why we're having the chaos we are having.

Remember, we were never supposed to vote on the President. You voted for your elected officials of your state. Then your "representatives" hence a "representative republic"... would determine who was President through the electoral college system.

Nor were we to vote on Senators or House Representatives.

Let me ask you something.... Why are Senators and Representatives in the House, spending months doing fund raisers?

It's because they have to mount these huge campaigns to drag people out to vote. They have to buy TV ads, and put up signs, and have pay interns to canvas the area.

How much would they have to spend, if they were elected by the state legislature?

Zero.

See? You complain about money in politics, when the reality is, if we followed the non-democracy method of a Representative Republic, that the founders intended.... we wouldn't need to worry about money in politics, because there wouldn't be any.

If I'm a Senator, and I'm elected by my state's legislature, I don't need money to campaign. So why am I going to take $10 Million from GE, for a tax break, when I don't need to campaign?

If you look at all the problems we have today, and compare them to the non-democracy system the founders created... none of them would exist.

Corruption in the ballots. Dead people voting. No one would spend the money, or risk getting caught, for a state house seat. Wouldn't be worth it.

That is only worth the risk and money, if you are going for a high level seat in D.C. Wouldn't happen under the founders system.

There would be no paying off special interest groups for political support, in a non-democracy Representative Republic. Since the president would be elected through the state electorial college, there is no benefit from having the Train Unions get billions from the 2009 Stimulus package. Their support would mean nothing.

Nor were we to vote on Senators or House Representatives.

Half right.

Only Senators? Was it a direct vote for House Representatives? I thought it was only state house representatives.

Direct vote for the "People's House", state government voted for Senators.

 

[Blues Man]

Whoever thinks the government can provide prosperity is a fool.

Whoever thinks unfettered capitalism can provide prosperity is also a fool.

Name one example of unfettered Capitalism, that did not result in prosperity?

Every single time any country anywhere, takes a step towards Capitalism, prosperity follows.
Every single time any country anywhere, takes a step towards socialism, decline and poverty follows.

There is no example to the opposite of either of those.

We have never had unfettered capitalism.

 

[Andylusion]

Whoever thinks the government can provide prosperity is a fool.

Whoever thinks unfettered capitalism can provide prosperity is also a fool.

Name one example of unfettered Capitalism, that did not result in prosperity?

Every single time any country anywhere, takes a step towards Capitalism, prosperity follows.
Every single time any country anywhere, takes a step towards socialism, decline and poverty follows.

There is no example to the opposite of either of those.

We have never had unfettered capitalism.

Right, I'm trying to force him to confront his implied statement. Whether we have or not, doesn't matter.

He said unfettered capitalist is bad. Name anywhere... any country, that tried unfettered capitalism, and it failed.

Painting people into a corner of their own beliefs is fun.

 

[Mac1958]

With their support of Trump, the American Right has pissed away any claim it has on "traditional values".

With their support of Biden, the American Left has pissed away any honest affiliation with the "Me Too" movement.

Hypocrisy! Yay!

And for the eight zillionth time, the two ends of our political spectrum demonstrate for us, how similar they can be in their behaviors.