What does Proverbs 22:16 mean?

[HaShev]

lol the Hebrew Bible has been edited so many times it's useless as a primary source; the current 'Orthodox' forms of Judaism are a fake cult and not the original Hebrewism. The modern cult was a racist fabrication evolved from a cult dreamed up by some Babylonian Jews running a Temple scam, and was invented by some Pharisees after the Bar Kokhba Revolt. Modern Orthodox Jews aren't even as Jewish as Baptists when it comes to religion.

Actually you got that twisted.
The Hebrews /Abraham was predating the Moses laws, so at best they had Noahide laws if at all. It was the High righteous Priest of Shalem who taught Abraham a love thy neighor, good deeds, righteous path opposite the idol worship Priests of Baal harvest scam seen in the Daniel scroll taking food for Baal, but using it for themselves and their families. This harvest scam is spoken of and done today (replace food with money tithes) by TV evangelists, replacing Baal with his son the Morning Star (Rev 22:16) who surpassed his father on the throne by being the dying god(Canaanite mythology of Athtar the great)...actually a mask for Baal thus father and son are called one, because it's the same myth and harvest scam given a new name.
Note: Shalem (the holy name in the City) is the Evening Star- the morning star (lucifer) was the nemesis. How the city of Shalem becomes the city of Shalom (peace) in the legend it says it is when the Night (rising Evening srar)over turns the day(fallen morning star)there will be peace (Shalom), this is also a shared expectation in Quran tradition called the Al Isra.
There were 2 traditions in Canaan, Baal worship and Shalem worship.
The scam was Baal worship and Shalem was reinvented without anthropomorphic tendencies and became metaphoric symbolism for representing the descriptions and essence of righteous living as a community seeking stability and progress -reinvented/retooled from the familiar to make more reality sense.
The Shalemite Canaanites "most likely" were the rejected poor of the Pagan world, who along with the rejected Hebrews who kept Shalemite ideas & customs, became slaves in Egypt to later become known as Jews coming out of Egypt with even more structure and laws, therefore the race comment is not accurate unless you consider most of the same race as sons of the sons of Noah seperating but forming back into one group again.
This might be secreted in the name of the Holy city Yeru means city of but also can mean those from UR by way of original spelling and transliteration. So- those from UR(Hebrews) (combined with)Shalem (those from Shalemite traditions that already existed in the land).

 

[DudleySmith]

Our modern language has once again missed the meaning of what was being said, especially by the social justice crowd. When the Bible references the "poor" and "rich", It often means the poor in spirit. The Bible does talk about the dangers of wealth to the spirit, but the Lord does bless some people with wealth, such as Solomon. I don't think anyone can assume their wealth is deserved by the Lord, but to sum up... when the Bible talks about the "poor", it doesn't just mean people living in economic poverty.

WEll a lot of modern people want to ignore the meaning and fabricate it into something more to their liking, which is to ignore that most people get rich at others' expense, not from their own hard work and efforts. this desire to change the meanings is especially pronounced in the modern world where wealth is worshipped and selfishness is made into a virtue. Many hope to get rich quickly and via speculation, not hard work, and they don't like it when these verses are singled out and scrutinized. The hardest work these days pays the least, and way below the cost of living.

 

[zaangalewa]

Jesus was criticizing the government?

Unfortunatelly not as far as I know. Nevertheless were for example the rules in Roman 13:1-7 wrong under the Nazis in Germany. The Nazis were by the way never legally in power, because they never were elected from the majority of all German voters in free elections. The last really free election had been in November 1932, where the Nazis got only 33.1% of all votes.

 

[DudleySmith]

Actually you got that twisted.
The Hebrews /Abraham was predating the Moses laws, so at best they had Noahide laws if at all. It was the High righteous Priest of Shalem who taught Abraham a love thy neighor, good deeds, righteous path opposite the idol worship Priests of Baal harvest scam seen in the Daniel scroll taking food for Baal, but using it for themselves and their families. This harvest scam is spoken of and done today (replace food with money tithes) by TV evangelists, replacing Baal with his son the Morning Star (Rev 22:16) who surpassed his father on the throne by being the dying god(Canaanite mythology of Athtar the great)...actually a mask for Baal thus father and son are called one, because it's the same myth and harvest scam given a new name.
Note: Shalem (the holy name in the City) is the Evening Star- the morning star (lucifer) was the nemesis. How the city of Shalem becomes the city of Shalom (peace) in the legend it says it is when the Night (rising Evening srar)over turns the day(fallen morning star)there will be peace (Shalom), this is also a shared expectation in Quran tradition called the Al Isra.
There were 2 traditions in Canaan, Baal worship and Shalem worship.
The scam was Baal worship and Shalem was reinvented without anthropomorphic tendencies and became metaphoric symbolism for representing the descriptions and essence of righteous living as a community seeking stability and progress -reinvented/retooled from the familiar to make more reality sense.
The Shalemite Canaanites "most likely" were the rejected poor of the Pagan world, who along with the rejected Hebrews who kept Shalemite ideas & customs, became slaves in Egypt to later become known as Jews coming out of Egypt with even more structure and laws, therefore the race comment is not accurate unless you consider most of the same race as sons of the sons of Noah seperating but forming back into one group again.
This might be secreted in the name of the Holy city Yeru means city of but also can mean those from UR by way of original spelling and transliteration. So- those from UR(Hebrews) (combined with)Shalem (those from Shalemite traditions that already existed in the land).

And of course you address nothing I said, just trying to divert the issue from the fact that the post-exilic Babylonians diverted from the Torah of Moses and oped to turn themselves into an elite based on heredity and race, first with Ezra and then rallying around a fake temple. There is a reason why there are no major Jewish prophets after they got Cyrus to back their power play in Jerusalem until John the Baptist and Jesus; it's because the Babylonian cult was no longer following Moses and inventing a new cult built around themselves. The Pharisees finished the break, and founded a new order, 'Rabbinical Judaism', at Jamnia, some 130 years after Jesus, and of course followed by the usual editing of the texts and promotion of various scams like a 'secret oral Torah only for Jews' and built on the same racist nonsense promoted by Ezra. The modern 'Judaism' isn't the Hebrewism of Abraham or Joshua, or Aaron.

 

[emilynghiem]

Warning to trolls: Stick to the topic or stay out of the thread. This is your only warning.

Proverbs 22:16
Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.

What does it mean, exactly, that one will "only come to poverty"?

It certainly doesn't mean that one will come to poverty while still among the living as many oppressors die at a ripe old age and with significant wealth.

Does it mean that such people will go to Hell? Well, the verse doesn't say that, at least not exactly.
Let me share my interpretation. Such people will pay a price for their actions by "coming to poverty" in the hereafter. They will do without in the hereafter. They will watch from afar as God's people gorge themselves on the riches of Heaven.

Mathew 20:16 seems to affirm my interpretation, or so I believe. Here is the verse:
English Standard Version
So the last will be first, and the first last

Again, it does not say that the first will go to Hell; it says they will be "last". So, while others enjoy Heaven's riches, those who were first on Earth will have to "wait" to enjoy such things, which would surely be the same people mentioned in Proverbs 22:16.

Insightful feedback is welcome and appreciated.

This seems another way of saying what you reap you will sow.

Assuming the purpose of God giving us these laws is to learn and teach how to follow them by experience and understanding, whatever consequence occurs is to motivate us to learn cause and effect and to make wiser consistent choices.

For those who learn lessons in life better by experiencing physical poverty, or spiritual poverty, etc. God will use those means to teach by example.

I have friends who gained motivation to change their approaches for the better after suffering medical hardships before choosing to live rather than get worse or die. While others learned from financial consequences the difference it makes to serve others.

Mother Teresa observed the spiritual poverty she encountered in America was worse than the economic poverty in India.

So it seems relative and depends on the person what their path and process is, and God's purposes for leading us through spiritual stages of growth and development.

 

[ding]

Warning to trolls: Stick to the topic or stay out of the thread. This is your only warning.

Proverbs 22:16
Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.

What does it mean, exactly, that one will "only come to poverty"?

It certainly doesn't mean that one will come to poverty while still among the living as many oppressors die at a ripe old age and with significant wealth.

Does it mean that such people will go to Hell? Well, the verse doesn't say that, at least not exactly.
Let me share my interpretation. Such people will pay a price for their actions by "coming to poverty" in the hereafter. They will do without in the hereafter. They will watch from afar as God's people gorge themselves on the riches of Heaven.

Mathew 20:16 seems to affirm my interpretation, or so I believe. Here is the verse:
English Standard Version
So the last will be first, and the first last

Again, it does not say that the first will go to Hell; it says they will be "last". So, while others enjoy Heaven's riches, those who were first on Earth will have to "wait" to enjoy such things, which would surely be the same people mentioned in Proverbs 22:16.

Insightful feedback is welcome and appreciated.

I think it means they will be poor in spirit. As to their ultimate fate, that's up to God. Please see the parable of the vineyard workers.

 

[HaShev]

And of course you address nothing I said, just trying to divert the issue from the fact that the post-exilic Babylonians diverted from the Torah of Moses and oped to turn themselves into an elite based on heredity and race, first with Ezra and then rallying around a fake temple. There is a reason why there are no major Jewish prophets after they got Cyrus to back their power play in Jerusalem until John the Baptist and Jesus; it's because the Babylonian cult was no longer following Moses and inventing a new cult built around themselves. The Pharisees finished the break, and founded a new order, 'Rabbinical Judaism', at Jamnia, some 130 years after Jesus, and of course followed by the usual editing of the texts and promotion of various scams like a 'secret oral Torah only for Jews' and built on the same racist nonsense promoted by Ezra. The modern 'Judaism' isn't the Hebrewism of Abraham or Joshua, or Aaron.

Ezra 1 and Isaiah 44-45 the "redeemer" (Hebrew:HaSheva) is the one who battles with the Persian prince and King Cyrus' heart to do the right thing in gathering the Jews and rebuilding the Temple and Dan 10 tells you who that redeemer (HaSheva) is by first & last name.
Dan 10:21 (Michael)
Dan 10:20 where it says in regards to Michael:
*"Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee And now will. *Hashev Lacham Sar Parac"
(HaShev fights the prince of Persia).
Doesn't say Jim Jones, doesn't say
David Koresh, and it doesn't say Jesus.
All false prophets who got their flocks killed and dispersed.
You just claimed the people he was supposed to redeem as a qualifier, weren't.